Real-World Trade-In Values

stickguy · January 2010

You make it sound like you are just giving money away for nothing. You aren't.

you are paying a little extra for the extra power. And having driven the NA and turbo versions, that is a very real benefit.

you say you drive 6K/year. At 20 MPG average, that is 300 gallons of gas. Assuming the normal $.30 spread (and many stations have super sunday discoutns!), that is about $90 A YEAR, or $7/month, or roughly a quarter per day.

Heck yeah, I am paying an extra quarter for that much more power. Talk about a performance bargain!

anyway, you bought a car you like, and that you have faith in. It is also something that should last a long time. Now go enjoy it.

roadburner · January 2010

But there was no need for a car with premium fuel, and that will stick in my craw.

I 'm of the opinion that "too much" horsepower is barely adequate. 33 cents per day is an infinitesimally small price to pay for those added ponies. If I were you I'd maintain your XT by the book and drive it like ya' stole it.
Life's much too short to agonize over a few cents per day- especially when you've got a turbocharged engine that can make you forget all about pinching pennies...

qbrozen · January 2010

got some great news. Vmax is still in the biz. He's had to move over to BMW. Hopefully he can return to us someday soon when he's settled in.

Kirstie_H · January 2010

Thanks for the update! I hate to see valued members go missing without a trace.

ateixeira · January 2010

As repeated by others many times the fuel cost is just a tiny portion of your operating costs.

Do you have a gas card with a rebate? I got a Shell card, they give 5% back. At about $3 per gallon I get 15 cents back, that basically covers the added cost all by itself.

So just get a Shell or other similar gas card, and the added cost is offset.

breld · January 2010

This is a bit outdated, but I thought I'd share some results from a post I made a few months ago. Since there's so much great information and advice dispensed on this forum, I thought the least I could do is post my results.

In short, I was considering trading my 2007 Highlander (base model, AWD V6, 53k miles) for a used 2008 CX-9 back in August. The trade value offered seemed really low and the dealer's asking price on the Mazda seemed high compared to the discounted prices on new ones, so I passed on that deal.

A month ago, I traded in the Highlander on a new 2010 CX-9 AWD Grand Touring. Advice from here placed my trade at about $14k-$15k (thanks to Volvomax) and dealer invoice on the new car was about $32,500. I was more interested in the 1.9% financing than a $1k rebate and so targeted a $16k difference between my trade and the Mazda - knowingly being aggressive since I didn't really "need" the new car.

Surprisingly, they accepted my offer of my car plus $15,500. Contract was written up as $17,500 for the trade and $33,000 for the CX-9. That's obviously an overallowance on the trade, but I figured a good deal on the CX-9 with no trade would have been $32,000 (a little under invoice seems to be what others were getting), so I felt really good about the whole deal.

I pass the Mazda dealer everyday on the way to work - they have my Highlander listed at $23,991! Accordingly, it's still sitting there after a month. I paid $17,800 for it (used) a year ago. Hey - if they can get low $20k's for it, more power to them.

Anyway - enjoying the CX-9. Thanks for all the great advice.

im_brentwood · January 2010

$23,991 for a 53k mile 07 Base V6 AWD? Even if it's a fake Limited it isn't worth that. (Fake Limited = Regular V6 Highlander with Leather, roof, alloys, power seat, etc...)

Heck, I have a Toyota Certified Hybrid 07 Highlander with 53k on it on the lot for less than that! I have an 07 Limited coming in tomorrow with just under 50k that we'll probably ask $23995 for... Certified.

No wonder they still have it.

explorerx4 · January 2010

congrats and great that you posted about your transaction.
a couple of reasons i can see them pricing your trade at that price are, hoping for a home run buyer, and making their home brand look like a better deal, which would be the case at that price.

im_brentwood · January 2010

I personally haven't had a lot of luck pricing off brand cars for more than franchised dealers are selling similar certified cars for.

But what do I know? :P

qbrozen · January 2010

Bill! Holy cow! How are ya?
You are back to selling cars? Is this a new place of your own or did you pick up a gig at someone else's dealership?

vtgeorge · January 2010

I have not been able to find the value for this truck, it is a 2001 F450, 4wd, 7.3 liter power stroke diesel with overdrive auto transmission and has 70,000 miles on it. Body is in good shape with the dump body and minor rust along each door bottom. Good interior with no rips. 225/70R/19.5 tires in good shape and single rear axle. 15,000 GVW. Any suggestions?

robbieg · January 2010

Got a quick question about depreciation of new v. used cars. I am trying to figure out if it is better to finance a 3 year old used car for five years or a new car for five years. Unfortunately, I usually finance for 5 years to keep my payment low. This doesn't really bother me because I don't get the itch to trade my car in for at least 4 years and I can always suck it up and keep the car for one more year until it is paid off. However, this time it is different in that I am looking at cars that are much more expensive so I am forced to buy used and I am scared to finance a car that will be 8 years old when it is paid off. I would love a Sequoia but they are so expensive that I can not afford a new one. Alternatively, I probably could afford a new Highlander. I am guessing that there is a price difference of about 8,000. I realize that when you drive a new car off the lot you lose a lot of money instantly and without a decent down payment you really don't have any equity until the last year of the loan. However, what happens when you buy a used car. How quickly do you gain equity when you finance it for five years?

sebring95 · January 2010

$ for $ it's almost always better to go used, even if it's only 1-2 years old. Unless you drive a tremendous amount of miles, it really shouldn't matter if you end up with a 5 year old vehicle with 75k miles vs a 6-7 year old vehicle with 100k.

I was just shopping a lightly used SUV and there's a lot of 1-2 year old Highlanders out there in the $22-25k range with 30k miles. I was also shopping 4Runners and they're a bit more pricey used, but '07-08 base SR5 models are available in that price range as well. I landed on a very well equipped '08 Pathfinder SE (which I like ALOT better than the 4Runner) with 15k miles for $24k. Biggest problem I had with the Highlander was they're rated to tow 5k miles with the proper package....but good luck finding one with it. Then you have a lot of added cost to get the hitch and such which is NOT included in the tow package :sick: Decent vehicle though, just depends on what you want/need.

ateixeira · January 2010

I probably could afford a new Highlander

Yes, but perhaps not a used one.

1st year depreciation is steepest, followed by 2nd, and so on.

In fact, if you buy an older used car, where age no longer matters, and you keep it in great condition, and keep the miles down, it may even stop losing value entirely after a while. That phenomenon happened with the NA Miata, for instance.

Residuals on a 36 year lease for new cars usually varies from, what, about 45-65% or so? Depending upon the car and the terms. So they lose about half their value in the first 3 years.

Nearly all cars last longer than 6 years so for sure the residual will be higher than 0%, even on a salvage.

Just be sure to account for out-of-warranty repair and any increased maintenaince that may be required.

im_brentwood · January 2010

Used versus new depends a LOT on which car you're buying. I am a Used Car Manager at a Toyota store.. be wary of those year old Highlanders with 30k on them, they are almost always daily rentals and a lot of them seem to be pretty beat up, I have a hard time finding clean ones.

Also, right now, in the New York Region, Certified Highlanders do have 2.9 APR Available for up to 60 months, ditto Camrys. And this finally includes Hybrids!

Would I buy a used 09 RAV4 Right now? Probably not, these wholesale for $18k+ with 15-20k miles and tend to retail for about $21-22k or so, a new Base 4X4 with alloys is what, $25k (If you can find one) IMO you're better off waiting a month or two for a brand new 2010.

Meanwhile I bought my Jaguar XJ8 3 years old at the auction for $45,000 or so under MSRP. Assuming I could buy a new one like it for $60k, I'd still have lost close to $40,000 in 3 years, since I paid less than $22k for it last summer, i could drive it for 3 years, and then SCRAP it and be $18,000 ahead of the game. Realistically I bet I could sell it in 2 1/2 years for $10k or so.

$4k a year to drive a Jaguar beats $12-13k a year. Even if the thing sucks up $2k a year in repairs (Which it won't) I'm still $6,000 a year ahead of the game.

Now... A Corolla? A RAV4? Well.. to me, the savings isn't enough to buy a 2-3 year old one.

An Avalon? Yeah, i sell 09 Avalon Limiteds with in and around 20k miles on em for a net savings of probably $7-8k over a new car, that's about 20+% so that makes sense to me.

im_brentwood · January 2010

Q! Isell!

I'm the Used car manager at the biggest Toyota Dealership in Rockland County

gooddeal2 · January 2010

...glad to see an honest advise from a used car manager...I usually see the comment "...buy a used 1-2 years old car and you save a bundle..."

im_brentwood · January 2010

It just depends on the car and your definition of a bundle

mikefm58 · January 2010

Good post, I've been beating my head against the wall trying to convince my co-worker not to buy a 2 yr old Honda Civic. I don't have the exact figures handy, but he's looking to save about $3K compared to buying new. Even if the thing was 100% reliable, there are still normal maintenance items like brakes, battery, and tires that can rack up some serious cash on a 2-3 yr old vehicle.

im_brentwood · January 2010

It depends.. $3,000 is a lot of money to some people, and one customer did bring this point up the other night, we sold her an '08 Camry LE for something like $17k.

She mentioned that she could afford a new Corolla ro the used Camry, she simply wanted the Camry and $22k for a new one wasn't within her budget.

sebring95 · January 2010

Well, it's somewhat relative I guess. $3k on a $17k car is 18%....but a lot would depend on the mileage. A 1-2 year old car with sub-20k miles can be quite attractive. Of course if he's trading a car in, the fine line blurs quickly on new vs used if there's sales tax savings. It seems that folks paying cash will likely appreciate the savings more than a payment shopper. Ahhh, only $60/month for new car smell.

breld · January 2010

Are the Sequoia and Highlander just examples of what you are looking for, or are those the specific cars you're targeting?

If you'd love to have a Sequoia, as you state, but can only afford a used one (understandably) then I think that's your answer. The "newness" of a new Highlander will fade quickly if it's not really the vehicle you want.

I wouldn't worry too much about the difference between a 7-year old 100k mile Sequoia versus a 5-year old 70k mile Highlander when you're ready to switch out again. Toyotas are nice in that there's still a good market for ones with high miles.

im_brentwood · January 2010

Robbie,

A Sequoia can be a bargain used, they're one of the worst resale value Toyotas (Bad resale on a Toyota is still relative).

Unlike the Highlanders which are coming off lease in droves, there's no steady supply of used current generation Sequoias so you may have to hunt for the right car. Of course, the used current-gen Highlanders that are out there right now are generally base model ex-rentals anyhow.

One thing to certainly take into consideration is equipment levels, loaded up Sequoias have lower residuals, percentagewise.

Give ya an example... take 07 Sequoias... Right now a loaded up '07 Limited (Navi + DVD) with, say, 36k on it will cost me $29-30k at the auction and those retail for about $33-34k when the dust settles.

SR5s with Leather and a roof will cost me $26-27k like that.

Basically, the spread is in and around that $3-4k Mark, but when new the spread between a typically equipped SR5 and a loaded up Limited was a HECK of a lot more than that.

So I would be shopping for a used Sequoia Limited with the works.. we're talking what, 10% more?

This is true of most any car, the loaded up models hold their value the least especially cars that few people buy new, such as a Corolla XLE/XRS or a Prius 5. As much as we have people lined up with orders for really high end Priuses, I don't see a $33,600 Prius being worth 50% more than a Prius 2 3 years down the road.. those options will residualize at about, oh, I dunno, 10-15%.

watkinst · January 2010

I bet they have it listed as a "certified" used car too. Ha ha

im_brentwood · January 2010

This one baffles me. I just don't have date on medium duty trucks. Your best bet is to try shopping it to a few dealers who specialize in vehicles like this, see what they would be willing to pay for it.

That would get you the best idea of what it's worth.

newdavidq · January 2010

I have 3 mos left on a 36 mo lease and need to decide to buy or not to buy my 4runner.
Std 4wd with V6, moonroof, towing, roof rack, 17" alloys, white.
Will have 46000 miles, 7/32 tires left and about 60% brakes left. Has had all dealer service performed and has been 100% trouble free.

I'll be about 10k miles over @ .15/mile. I live in IL and will have to pay sales tax (again) on the residual value which is $18,500.

I would have preferred the V8 but was not available in white at the time and could not wait to find one. I just wonder if there are any factors I might have missed here; I am seriously considering making the purchase.

Would appreciate any insight from the board, Thanks, DQ

PS: With both rear seats folded down (no 3rd row) I have to slide the driver's seat one notch forward and at 6'1" it is a little annoying, plus no elctro mirror and compass, are the only real issues I have had (very minor).

lrguy44 · January 2010

You did not mention if your 4Runner was a 2006 or 2007. Either way, the residual seems to be well below retail market and a good buy. It is not as if you have to pay tax again. The taxes paid on a lease are sales tax on the monthly payment. You are paying tax on the purchase price. Combine the residual with the not paying the mileage penalty and it sounds like a good way to go.

jayrider · January 2010

Illinois like some other states assesses sales tax on the purchase price -- not on the monthly payment. The full tax say 7% on a 30k price is $2100. You can pay it upfront or roll it into the lease. If you buy 3 years later and the buyout is 20k, you pay $1400 more.

lrguy44 · January 2010

I as not aware of that. Talk about double jeopardy Glad I left Illinois years ago.

sebring95 · January 2010

The buy-out price is very good. I was shopping for one recently and was finding models like yours in the $21-22k range after a little negotiating. So $18k sounds like a pretty real world trade/wholesale number. If you NEED the V8 for towing, then that might be a reason to shop around. Performance wise, they're nearly identical when not towing. I compared the V8 and V6 model with a stop-watch and found a couple areas (higher speed passing) where the V6 was actually quicker. I was coming out of a V8 Tundra and didn't want to lose any performance. But if you tow heavier loads, the V8 is a no brainer.

My biggest complaint with the 4Runner was the drivers seat. I could not get comfy no matter which model I tried and ultimately looked at the Pathfinder and was very impressed. If the 4Runner was comortable though, at $18k I might be able to overlook the other shortcomings!

jayrider · January 2010

im_brentwood -- trying to project ahead a year or so. With a 2010 infinity ex selling now for 36k [msrp 40k] looking ahead to when they have a few miles and appear as cpo, what would be the price that you would need to buy [to make sense] vs a new 2011? Of course there may be some new 2010's on the lot next year which will muddy the waters. Same question re a 2010 bmw X3 Msrp 45k -- buy now? don't know what the best price would be -- probably 42-43k.
My guess is that it will depend on what these rides will be bringing at auction which is tough to project.

blueiedgod · January 2010

2. I'm sure this says something really bad/superficial about me, but I hate "base" vehicles because I can't stand wheel covers. It's a personal thing. I used to have an old Mazda with wheel covers, and the fact that the wheel covers flew off everytime I hit pothole became a running family joke. I lost so many that I actually bought a large bulk box of them and had to keep it in my trunk. Finally, after three years of that, I just quit replacing them and drove it looking like a piece of crap with no wheel covers, just showing the steel. I swore that I would never buy another car with wheel covers, ever ever ever ever. Stupid, I know, but it is what it is. I'm sure I need to get over it, but I had such a bad experience with them, that it doesn't matter what car I see, if it has wheel covers, I automatically never even consider it and think it looks like junk. I hope to own this thing for 10 years--I can't think my car is junk every day for 10 years.

I am not sure, but the obvious answer, at least to me, is to buy the base, and buy the wheels you like. A set of rims, even the most fancy ones in stock size will run $400-600, as opposed to the $2000 in other stuff you won't need in a higher trim.

blueiedgod · January 2010

are you looking to sell outright or trade?
my reference only prices auto models.
personally, i would trade it for an escape.
Happy New Year

Ha ha, funny.

I just checked the black book, and it looks like the little CR-V still holds its value. The full retail price is $15,000 (5M) to $17,000 (girl version). Considering it was $20,000 when I bought it new in 2005, ain't so bad.

How much are the Escapes retailing for?

robbieg · January 2010

Frankly, I am a car guy but I need the space of a big SUV. I already have a minivan and I can't stomach the thought of having two of them. With that being said, of the big SUVs I like the Sequoia the best, followed by the Tahoe. However, since I am likely buying used and keeping it for a long time I can't bring myself to buy a Chevy. It is not that I don't like the Highlander, I do, I just think I need a bigger car because of the kids and the big dog. For our family we have learned that we need two big cars. So am I in love the Sequoia or the Highlander no but every wagon is just too small (The Flex is just too different for me). If I am going to spend 35,000 on a car, I wish it could be a new Volva wagon or a used 5 series wagon or a Mercedes wagon but I don't think the size is going to work for me. From what I gather, the smart play is to buy a used Sequoia Limited which is still pretty pricey, at least for my budget.

I have always bought new but it sounds as if it is okay to keep (and in my case finance) a Toyota until 100,000 because it will still have a decent value come trade in time.

breld · January 2010

Have you considered or looked at the Mazda CX-9? I bought one a month ago with the goal of getting a 3-row SUV that was still sporty (relatively speaking of course). It's certainly not as large as a Sequoia, but it does have a large cargo area and a very usable 3rd row.

For the most part, I tend to gravitate toward Hondas and Toyotas, but I was really taken with the ride and handling of the CX-9 compared to the Highlander and Pilot. I had really liked the new Crosstour, but preferred to have the 3rd row - I thought the CX-9 drove like that Accord, but had the extra room.

Just another suggestion if you're targeting a $35k SUV.

newdavidq · January 2010

Thanks to all who commented on my question about whether or not to buy my Toyota at lease end. I was leaning towards buying and now that is what I'm going to do.

Regards, DQ

explorerx4 · January 2010

it's tough to find an 05 escape with such low mileage, because they actually get driven. :P
retail dealer asking for '04 limiteds with about 90/100k on them is 10k+.
better than i ever thought it would be.
we passed ours with 75k on to one of the kids and replaced it with an '09.

vtgeorge · January 2010

This is the same info I find when I ask some sales people I know. Doesnt seem to be any data on commercial truck values once you get above the one ton pickup truck. Thanks for the reply.

sebring95 · January 2010

NADA does put out a commerical truck pricing book but I'm not sure they cover the models between 1-ton and medium duty. Even then the trucks are so customizeable at that level it's still very hard to put a real number on something by using a book value. A 450 could have a utility body, dump body, flat-bed etc. and they all have varying degrees of value based on brand/extras/etc. It's a very unique market because they're all custom for the most part. Are you actually looking to trade this or sell it? If trading, on what?

rshivdat · January 2010

Hello,

I'm in the process of selling/trading in my 2007 Infiniti M35 Sport for something less expensive and much more fuel efficient. I've done the TMV and Black Book appraisal which came in about $2K less then the TMV. Seems like this thing is all over the place, please help. Here's the info:

Location: Orlando Florida
Year/make/model: 2007 Infiniti M35 Sport
Body Style: 4dr sedan
Engine: 3.5 liter 6 cylinder automatic
driveline: RWD
Mileage: 64000
Color: Exterior Obsidian Black Interior: Black
Major Options: Standard options for Sport include 19" alloys, sunroof, adaptive headlights, adaptive steering (rear wheel engagement)
Condition: Extremely Clean interior and exterior. I keep it in the garage every night. It has been polished and waxed to keep the shine of the black paint gleaming. A few nicks on the hood from my highway driving. One 1" ding on the driver side rear fender, probably from a door or shopping cart.
Tires: about 50% tread or more left
Brake pads are new, changed about 5000 miles ago all around
Maintenance: 60K service done by Infiniti technician about 2 months ago. Included: Transmission fluid change, oil change (full Castrol Synthetic), new belts, new air filter, new cabin filter, and coolant. All using recommended Infiniti products or parts.
Other: No other info. I'm the first owner purchased brand new from Lokey Infiniti in Tampa.

Thanks in advance.

gooddeal2 · January 2010

Wow 64k miles on a '07. :sick: That's not good especially for a luxury car. I think you might just enjoy the car b/c I don't think you can find a nice ride w/ your trade in cash.

rshivdat · January 2010

Yeah, I know. I really enjoy the car, but I'm committed to cuttiong some costs and saving on fuel in a major way. I currently do about 70miles round trip a day for work all highway, hence the high miles in a short time. A used 06-08 Civic could save me big bucks in gas costs.

I think if I can get a good a enough price for my car, that will pay for the civic outright and still leave me some cash on the table to get rid of a few little bills.

We shall see.

lrguy44 · January 2010

Not a lot of comparable auction numbers, but high teens to very low 20's is where it looks like it will be.

ateixeira · January 2010

Stepping down from an M35 to a Civic may be cruel and unusual punishment.

What about a recent/used Altima 2.5 with the CVT? Those are pretty fuel efficient and much closer to what you're used to now.

Just seems like a better compromise.

rshivdat · January 2010

LOL

I understand your point of view and agree to some extent. But I'd like a convertible anyway and figure I can let my M35 go now and save a bunch on gas over the next year and then I can lease a convertible and drive it on the weekends and continue to use the civic for my work mule.

tifighter · January 2010

I'll guess Juice understands the convertible thing. Right? :P

ateixeira · January 2010

Yes, and the 2-car strategy as well.

I have the smallest car on the market, and the biggest.

They make a good team. The van hauls up to 8 people and luggage anywhere we need to go, and mileage is better than you could get in 2 Priuses doing the same thing (27mpg on trips, doubt you'll get 54mpg in each Prius).

My Miata is my commuter/errand car. Mileage isn't much better than the van the way I drive it, LOL.

Both are very efficient at what they do, it's just that the tasks I demand from each of them are entirely different.

im_brentwood · January 2010

David,

It's a good price, buy it.

Or, put it this way... I buy my off-lease 07 4Runners for residual.. and if I don't need em I ship em to the auction (The ones with 30-35k miles) and make $$ on em.

Your truck isn't worth $18500 as a trade but you likely won't get a NICE one for anywhere near that retail.

Buy it, it'll last till 300k miles if ya take care of it.

im_brentwood · January 2010

Well I have no clue how EXs will hold up, but you want to look at what 3 year old ones are doing.... that'll give you the best idea.

All I saw recently on auction results (Which don't tell you the whole picture at ALL) have 09s with 7k miles or so doing $29-32k depending where you are in the country.

One might have had nothing in it, the other might have been loaded up or one might have had some paintwork.

Too soon to tell for certain on those and too little dat, but I would bet they do OK.

A new X3 is coming soon, these will take a tumble.

Last I looked, which was 30 seconds ago, 07 X3s were doing in the $23ish range at auction with about 35k on them. Now, if a Black/Black one with Navi and every option runs across Manheim on the big highline sale day and it's perfect and Oceanside or Hollenshead is selling it... it could do closer to $25k.

But I would figure you can buy a CPO one right now for $28kish, maybe $29k.

If you look hard enough you might find a dealer who has had one on the lot for 60+ days and will blow one out for $25-26k, but aged units are often aged for a reason.

im_brentwood · January 2010

The problem here on this car is the number on the instrument cluster.

It's KILLING it. My gut tells me $17k.. Maybe closer to $18k if it's got Navi.,

Proiblem with a car like this is... what do you do with it? 07 M35s are being bought up by infiniti dealers.... for $21-23k depending on color and what not, with half the miles.

Cars like this can be tough to move... Infiniti dealers don't want em, so now who does> I had to place a 85k mile 06 750Li not too long ago... that was an eye opener for the buyer "Sir your car is worth nothing because nobody wants it and it's the wrong color for the exporters..."

GIven the bath that you are likely to take, my suggestion is to drive the wheels off of it.

So you drive 70 miles a day. 20 MPG, you're in Orlando, I JUST flew back from there.

That's $3/gal at, say, 20mpg being conservative. That's $10.50/day

Now.. the Civic.. which will cost, what, $18k?

Average 30mpg a day at $2.70 a gal. That's $6.30 because you can run regular instead of premium.

$4.20 a day saved driving the Civic. $21 a week.

A 3 year old Civic EX with 65k miles is worth $8k or so as a trade right now, maybe a hair less.

So that car's gonna depreciate $10k easy.

But you'll have saved $3k over that term, roughly, on gas.

$80 a month.

An 04 Infiniti M35 (Which would be the ugly one that noboy wants that has the resale value of chewing gum) with 130k on it is still worth $7-8k I would think.

Hmmm....

The dollar amounts of depreciation are similar indeed.

You will save $80 a month driving the Civic.

Versus driving an Infiniti M.

Hmmm..... No.

Drive the wheels off the infiniti. That was, what, a $50k car? It's already dropped over $30k, you're in the home stretch, run it till it goes kaboom.

Real-World Trade-In Values

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles