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I think that 3 things hurt domestic resale values:
1) Poor Quality and long-term durability, even if it's not true, there is a perception of this in the marketplace that domestics are inferior qualitywise.
2) Massive discounting and rebates. These simply slaughter the vale of a car. When you can get $8,000 off of MSRP on a new Lincoln Continental from the early summer onwards, what does that make a 2yr old one worth? Exactly. Nothing. Now, notice the cars with strong resale. Ever see a $1,500 rebate on a Civic? Nope. And you never will.
3) Huge sales to fleets which then flood the market as year-old used cars.
Bill
Let's see here...
Your Contour is worth about $8K or so.
And you want to try and get the SVT for about $12K if you can. The SVT Contours actually hold decent residuals.
Bill
Its' a shame it never did well here but I really like em myself.
And, your math is a bit flawed (See above)
Bill
The 323 is expensive.. Not a "steal" but not a bad deal. I'd try for closer to $26Kish.
The 5er will do better resale wise I THINK. Only because the bodystyle will be around longer. Green is a weak olor but it seems to do OK on 5ers.
$28,500 is a good deal on that car if it's nice and has good equipment (Leather, Roof, etc)
Bill
1% over seems low to me, although I dont know the Honda market. Generally though, for us a deal like that is a "gross profit and a net loss". The question is, how bad do they need to move that car? I hear that EX V6 Coupes sell pretty well though.
But sounds like they were around $600 over invoice which seems reasonable enough.
Oh, and the dest charge is taxable.
Now, on to the Prelude...
A Prelude SH would be worth about $13,500-14K or so right now in your area. However, your car, based on the market, is really worth about $12K-12,500.
However, that's for a Red, Silver, Black Automatic. What color is yours? Has it ever been painted anywhere? 5-Speed?
Bill
First, what's your budget? We can go from there and figure out what's the best value for her.
Bill
The 2000 would make more sense. Trade it in 2 yrs and you will have a "3 year old car" with 36-40K on it vs a 2yr old one wih that and it will be about a Wash.
Either or on this one... If anything, I'd go for the 2000 as high miles can hurt Wranglers.
Bill
But specifically, what cars have you found? Some specifics would help here...
Bill
I'll keep you informed on the Contour-Contour trade. Found two in the area, one in silver, other in black. The dealer I purchased the original SE wanted a difference of $5500. The black one I looked at Thursday looks like a lease return. Not even prepped, it was on the back lot, interior was in good shape, only needed a little vac job. All factory parts there (unlike the silver one). Drives well, and shifts well,(Some of the MTX-75 transaxles are a bit notchy in cold weather.), all the bits of the car work and it has new rubber. I doubt any of this is from the dealer as it really appears this car just came in.
Showed him the Edmunds TMV comparisons that list the difference in the Trade/Private/Retail/Certified values of anywhere between 1400-1900. So I said $2500. They said, OK, subject to seeing the trade (I was driving the Buick.)
So, since I've not dealt with these folks before, they get one shot to honor their signed and secured, "Subject to Trade Condition" deal.
I have tried to give my original Ford dealers a chance at my business, but I also need to shop around.
So we shall see this morning when I bring the trade and my check.
And again, good luck.
TB
Congrats on your store. What lines are you carrying? Where?
How much below invoice is typical for 2000 leftover Wrangler?
Mark
Did have one more that is difficult for me to get a handle on. Left over 2000 528i 5 speed (sales demo with 5k on it, so it would be sold as a new car). MSRP (loaded) of $44,600, invoice about $40,300.
How do I come up with a fair price for this one? Part of the problem is the fact that for 2001, the 525i (same equipment) is 3K less, so the 528 is a "tweener" between the 2001 525 and 530.
Add in last years model, and the miles, and why should I pay more than what I can get a new 525i for (about 39.7k with comparable equipment).
To me, about$37,000 seemed reasonable for the 2000 528i. What do you think?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I asked if the trade was not as good as I described. I was told that it was even better, but the market for Contours was weak.
I asked the rather pointed question, "did the market change since Thursday", as I was reaching for my key. I continued, I think we have a potential issue of ethics. You have already told me my car was better than described, and I'm pretty sure the market has not changed since we last spoke.
So he keeps saying 3500, 3400... yada yada, what will it take for me to close this deal. I said we had a deal, $2500 difference, you can finish our original deal any time you like. I then said, I could understand being off on our difference by about 10% or $250. So then he keeps going down 3200, etc. Again the question comes, what does it take. I say $2700 difference.
Here is the good part. The saleman said, you alluded to $2750 a while back. My reply "I guess you should have taken that price when it was on the table."
I think I effectively made my point and that was the deal.
I arrived at 8:30 AM and was out by 10:00. (I had to call my bank and get them to talk with the F&I guy.
So I am the proud owner of a 1998 Black Ford Contour SVT with 35K on the clock.
I am very happy with both the car and the deal. I've been driving it around, but can't fully enjoy it as the roads are a bit too wet for much spirited driving.
However, I think I'll be driving it a while as I need to put a new water pump in the Buick, but don't want to stand in the cold doing the work.
Cheers,
TB
About time you got a darned SVT!
If you traded for $2,750... Then one of two things happened:
1) You stole the SVT (Which is what I suspect)
2) They are buried in your car (Which I doubt)
You got a hell of a deal. Actual Wholesale to wholesale.
Good work!
Bill
can't say yet, can't say yet, can't say yet...
And, to be truthful, Im really not sure on the Jeep pricing. I'd look for a Jeep Wrangler conference as, aside from Lexus, Im not all that familiar with the pricing on Jeeps other tha I hear you can generally steal Jeep Grand Cherokees for about $2K back of invoice. (Hmm, wonder why they lose $10K in the first year?)
Bill
I got no idea on that Leftover 528i.
Well, to put it this way tho.. We have a 2000 GS400 in stock, on the showroom floor with 900 miles on it or thereabouts. And I know what we would take for it...
"Guess what, wanna buy a GS400 at Invoice Sir? Well, today's your lucky day"
As we both know, BMWs dont sell for around Invoice as a rule. On the Other hand, what if you get this 528i for invoice or even $1,500 back of it? It's semi-obsolete model, and its' a year older so what are you really saving? Now, On the other other hand, a 525i is not the car that a 528i is.
Get the one you want silly! And then we'll work on pricing!
Bill
Coming out of the Mystique, the 525 is a hell of a car, so how much better can the 528 be? I do have a tentative order on a 2001 525i for 39.3K, but really don't need new or want to pay that much. It gets frustrating however when dealers want almost as much for a 3 year old model.
I need to get a real price from the dealer on the 2000. I'll offer them 37 + my car at what other dealers have offered me for it (wholesale). At this point, they probably have a hard car (the 528i) to move, so they may end up having to wholesale it anyway.
I may just go with the '98 and stay within budget. 12 grand is 12 grand afterall, and it gives me the opportunity to look again in a few years!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
First time posting here. I've got a wierd problem. I have a 96 Mazda Millinia base, no leather or sun roof, sand mica is the color, minor dent in rear and the front bumper's paint is peeling, everything else is clean. Well the engine siezed up on it and so for we are having a hard time getting the extended warrenty we bought through Mazda to pay for the replacement of the engine ($4000 plus labor). We bought it as a lease return in 98. We have had all the oil changes and such done, but since we PCS'ed from Fl. last year, we can't find a single document from Fl. The warrenty place is asking for the last 5, we have the last three. The Mazda service department it is at says the engine was free of slug and the oil was clean, Some bolt broke in it causing it the seize. Of course this happened on the freeway with everyone going home for Chrismas. We where lucky to get off the highway without getting a Semi up our rear. But anyway, we still owe just under $9000 on it. The Mazda salesman is saying that the trade-in would be the same no matter if we trade it in now (bad engine) or waited until we got it repaired then traded it in. Also would we be able to get the rest of the extended warrenty back, pro rated of course? We are looking at a new 2001 Protege ES. What are we possible looking at for a trade in? Thanks for your time,
Eddie
TB
Thanks again for you previous help and thanks in advance for this help. This group is awesome.
Gary.
Back in the olden days while I was in junior high school, a neighbor purchased a new Kaiser-Frazer and Packard dealership shortly after buying himself a new Oldsmobile about 1953. Shortly after, Studebaker-Packard merged and the Packard looks went down the tubes. Kaiser-Frazer just did not sell very well. I think he lasted about 4 or 5 years.
The Nash-Hudson merger killed the appearance of Hudson. A neighbor who had purchased Hudson got a new Hudson that looked like a Nash but not long afterward traded it in on a Buick.
It is interesting to see some well known brands disappear while Japanese brands increase in sales popularity.
Like I've said before. The key is to buy a car you like in a price range that's comfortable.
Personally, I'd get a used 540i 6-Speed but that's me the speed demon.
$12K is a lot of cash tho...
Bill
I don't see why they're harassing you over the warranty claim, is it a Mazda warranty?
Bill
Bill
From what I am seeing, the demand for the S60 is very strong. Our local dealer only has 2 or so on the lot at any given time. However, I;ve driven it and it is one hell of a car! I also think that Volvo is trying to do what Mercedes is doing with the one-price philosophy. The trend over the past few years to massively discount Volvos is slaughtering their once strong resale values. However, if it's anything like the S80, ot ought to hold its' value reasonably well. I'd say a $37K S60 ought to be worth wholesale $22K in 3 years at least. It's still a ghuessing game at this point tho.
Besides, It's a GREAT car! Oh, and you may want to consider a color other than Maya Gold. Yeah it looks awesome, but it's a "wild" color. Wild colors can backfire.
Bill
When I can talk I'll let you guys know, I promise
Bill
I have had a few "three digit" speed runs on I-255. Now what I won't say is if that is MPH or KPH, but it was (as expected) very stable.
I can see this car will get me in trouble. I've found myself doing 80MPH on the freeway and didn't really notice it. The car is that smooth.
So, with that said, I decided it would be in my best interest to do the water pump on the Buick, as I'm less likely to speed in that car.
So I am here typing with scraped knuckles (and I like it)
Again, best wishes in your entreprenurial endevors.
And, you are right, the best way to buy domestic is used. This three year old 35K mile Ford is relatively squeek and rattle free. The only noise I've noticed is my leather seat rubbing on the center console.
Cheers,
TB
It's a Daewoo dealership in Oakland, Calif?
Yes, the car will get you in trouble.
TB
Bill
Bill
Who had his old XJR at 140+ through there many times... muahahahahahaha
Get me some specifics of what ya find and I'll be happy to see how the deal looks.
Bill
Here is what is on the table.
I am trading in a 2000 GMC SLT Z71 X-Cab, 5.3L, Light Pewter color with 1500 miles, paid $26,500 in 11/2000(excluding TT&L).
I am looking at: 1995 Toyota 4Runner SR5 V6 2WD with 84,000 miles.
So far the deal is $12,995 for the 4Runner and they give me $24,000 for my truck.
This is the initial offer, how low do you think I can go?
Opinion on the 4Runner?
Thanks in advance.
It'll take a hell of a knock for the 75,000 miles. A buyer won't care about the 80% highway miles and will demand a deep discount. Otherwise they just pay more and get lower miles.
The five speed will also slow it down.
Looking to unload a '97 Accord LX Sedan Auto I4. Good condition - garage kept, non-smoker, silver, 72k miles. Can I expect $10k for trade-in? $11 private sale?
Thanks!
Paul
I know that Saabs are notorious for not holding their value, but I'm curious what you would peg trade-in on this car at.
Thanks a lot for doing this, Bill. I came across this topic a few days ago and I've read all of the messages--while I kept wondering to myself, "How long did he last before he threw in the towel and the thread degenerated?" Imagine my surprise to reach the end and see you still plugging away at it!
Your prices on the '97 might be doable since it's a Honda, even though the mileage might knock it down some. If you can drive 4 years/72k and trade up to a better car for $10,000, you did pretty good.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
If you list your 1997 Accord LX for $11,000 in the Philly Inquirer, it will be yet another of the many Accord listings that make me laugh each Sunday. People want so much for their Accords on the private market...Consider that the 97 LX was a $17K car and you are asking for 65% of this back. Residuals on 48 month Accord leases are about 49%, so you're over about 16% or $2720. Knock off another grand for the high mileage (should be around 50K average) and you are looking at a fair value of $7300. Unfortunately, you are expecting a bit more, but the way I'm thinking is probably how a dealer will reason with you.
I'm not picking on you, bikerguy, as I now own a 01 Accord EX myself. Accords do indeed depreciate slowly, but if you want $11K privately, that means you are willing only to take a $6000 depreciation hit for 4 years of ownership and 72K miles of wear. I don't think that's reasonable. I track depreciation in my personal finance software and I plot out my 2001 to be worth about $9800 after 4 years/50K...and my car is loaded and cost nearly $22K. If my expected valuation sounds a bit low, consider that if I had a Taurus instead of the Accord, I'd have to use $6000!
If you DO get $10,000 from a dealer, take it and run!
OK.. Let's see here....
I'd try for $11,000 for the 4Runner and $23,500 min for your truck. So I'd say your close...
But try going for a lower mile 4Runner or what about a newer Explorer? Theyre so damned stealable lately..
Bill
As I'm sure you suspected the miles slaughter your Civic's value to a degree I'm afraid. I'll assume that its' never had any paintwork or other damage and is in clean shape. Even if the miles are highway, it hurts the car just the same. Expect it to be bid low because that car is going to be really tough to sell for a dealership.
Even so, it still ought to be worth about $6,500-7,000 or so.
Bill
Say you want to buy a $30K car, you have a car worth $12K and you owe $10K on it.
We'd "pencil" the deal like this:
$30,000 Sale Price
(12,000) Trade-In
$18,000 Difference
$10,000 Payoff
-----------------------------
$28,000 Due
So in this scenario, you'd have trade equity of $2,000. Still, you only pay tax on the $18,000 trade difference irrespective of payoff.
Bill
As to your trade.. I doubt you can get $10,000 for it. I can buy cars like that off-lease from Honda in that region with a lot lower mileage for less than $10,000. I'd say that your car is worth $6,500-7,000 as a trade-in. Perhaps a little more but thats really market on your car. And, if you do manage to get an Accord for invoice (Which may be doable up there, down here in FL it isnt from what I know) the dealer won't have any room for an overallowance.
Hope this helps,
Bill
Let's see what the SAAB Might be worth. I assume its' a 2-Door, right? As you know, they dont have great resale, but if its' clean I'd say it ought to be worth about $5,500-6,000 or so.
Glad you like the forum! And I'm not going anywhere
Hope this helps,
Bill
We ended up getting a leftover 2000 528 configured 95% of how we would have chosen it ourselves (the exterior color is very nice, but the same as my wife's last car so she was kind of hoping for something different--we definitely like the color, though!). We only negotiated a little (30 minutes, tops) and I got them to agree to straight invoice on the car, to include summer and winter BMW OEM mats, and to do the $7K on the trade. I think I got a very good deal, and my wife loves the car.
Anyway, thanks again for the info. Good luck on your new store--I'm eagerly awaiting hearing the details.
Stickguy and bgable160, Classic was POOR to deal with 2 years ago when ordering an Oddy. The saleman jerked us around, and lied to us. I wrote to Honda Regional and copied the dealership. Bought at MSRP at Burns, waited the usual 4 months for delivery. I have heard many other GOOD stories from Classic, so we will give them a shot too.
Value of the '97. Yeah, I want as much as I can get. I can ask more, but maybe $8,500 is all I can squeeze out of it. Looking at what Burns Honda has in their used inventory
'97 LX, 33k miles, asking 14,360
'96 LX, 55k miles, asking 12,520
'93 SE, 73k miles, asking 9,485
Dealer, of course, wants to make $2k or so off each used car. I understand this - a matter of risk and profit.
Paul
Glad to help!
Bill