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Comments

  • nortsr1nortsr1 Posts: 1,060
    What happened to my answers for question 11750????
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ........ I wanted to touch base on this before we got too far down the road ...

    First of all - "most", as in 65/75% of the folks that read Edmunds spend their time doing real research, reading thru the forums and getting a much better idea of what to do and how to do it .. they're informed and they know what they're looking for, as you Denali .. then you also have the other types, that read what they want read, pick what they want to pick and that becomes the Gospel (in their mind) .. I call it the "rule of 21" - it's like my Neice, she will ask you a question, and if she doesn't agree with you she will call 21 people until someone agree's with her .. let's forget the facts .l.o.l...

    We kid around with Bobst .. but I feel he's a knowledgeable guy and knows he can't buy a Dodge Magnum for $2,000 back of invoice and have the dealer drop $12,000 into his 180,000 mile Jeep, even though some "book" somewhere might say so .. as you do.

    **Let me ask you guys a question: how hard is it to offer a person a quote? It seems like a very straightforward thing to say, "I can sell that car for this much." But the advent of resources like Edmunds, and Internet Sales' departments notwithstanding, dealers--not all, but many, or even most--resist like heck the concept of giving someone a bottom-line best offer. Why is that?**

    Alot of the time, not all, but a bunch of the time - you have folks looking at a $23,000 ABC car (and thats "their" target vehicle) .. so as time goes on, they're looking at a $26,000 XYZ, then we're off to a $29,000 MNOP car .. they might like the color, the neighbor has one, the guys at work might like it better, but it's $6,000 more (plus taxes) and thats no biggie --until- they finally find out the payment is going to be $100+ more a month .. then everything comes to a screeeeeching halt.! .. .. then we get the: "the dealer won't work with me" - "they are ripping me off" - "I can get a better price" ...... what happened to the $23,000 vehicle that they set "their" sites on.?? .. and how and where can the dealer bury $6,000+..?? - they can't, so they don't -- so the customer leaves dissapointed., feels like "he's/she's" been scammed and finally the light goes on after the 2nd or 3rd dealer and they say: "HEY, we need to move down in price "IF" we want that particular payment" ...... Bingo.! ....

    The funny part about this business is .. folks will shop price for weeks, haggle over trade value - but they forget the most important thing --until- they get there --- payment.! .... they need to be looking at what their range is first .. not last ..l.o.l.... and they can do that in about 3 seconds with a Kalcatator, you know, one of those add-em-up' things ... this way, they won't leave and blame the dealer .........

    ** have a little experience with procurement, and if I put out an RFQ for a piece of equipment or a job and the seller wants to see my financials before even quoting me, there’s NO WAY I’m doing business with that seller.**

    I understand your point and I agree .. but with a procurement they are buying materials and a service from a company - and usually not dragging in any "negative equity" and/or maybe not a "less" than average credit history (which means less ability to buy) and you don't have to deal with 68,000 mile Kia on the hook ..l.o.l.... .... I guess the point is, you kinda pay for the bad habits of the bad buyers that have set-up the standard reaction from most dealers after all of these year ..... ¿Tiene esto sentido.?? ...



    Terry ;)
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    Won't help your friend Andre, but interesting:

    California Car Buyers Will Have Best Protection in U.S. (Inside Line)

    Steve, Host
  • volvodan1volvodan1 Posts: 196
    State by state may differ, but if you've signed, paid, and drove away they don't have to do anything. The examples you give are instances where we may bend but otherwise, no. Generally if someone came back and did that it would be pretty obvious that they found something that they thought was better. The supervisor may have done it, but I'm sure he is leaving a few "small" details out. Every circumstance is different.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ...... I don't know whats worse .. the new Bankruptcy laws, or this one .. now every dealer will be held captive by every neighbor, cousin or shade-tree mechanic ....



    Terry.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,225
    Andre,

    No, she can't bring it back. Now, some places may let her exchange it for another car but this case is different. someone told her she could have bought a better one for less money?

    Sorry.
  • bobstbobst Posts: 1,783
    Keep it simple. Ask for an out-the-door price, which includes everything.
  • steine13steine13 Posts: 2,715
    Mercy...

    The only good thing is that it costs "extra" and you won't have to pay for it. Before the car is sold, there can be inspections, a half hour on the freeway, an emissions test or whatever.

    But when the car changes owners, and the dealer has no more say in how it gets used, and what gas gets put in, and who dings it up...

    ... then, as far as I'm concerned, it's OVER.

    -Mathias
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,225
    Only in California...I'm glad I left.

    At least it'll cost people some money to return the car. This is NOT a good thing. buy a car on a whim, go home and decide it's the wrong color or your next door neighbor tells about " a friend's cousin" who had one that caused trouble.

    Looks like Barbara and Dianne are at it agian!
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 134,184
    I call it the "rule of 21" - it's like my Neice, she will ask you a question, and if she doesn't agree with you she will call 21 people until someone agree's with her ..

    This is the best one in months... keep 'em coming..

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,225
    I tried to find your e-mail but it's not in your profile. Could you e-mail me? In my profile. Thanks!
  • kurtamaxxguykurtamaxxguy Posts: 677
    I've worked for many businesses including automotive and have seen sales/service work together (accounting included) as well as operating as separate businesses under one roof. The "work-together" setup is stronger than the separate business approach because one can complement the other.

    I would prefer to do my business with a "work-together" organization - that seems the common sense approach. A few dealers do this. Many do not.

    And yes, factory trained technicians are pretty much a necessity given the complexity of cars these days.
    Who pays for the training? The factory? The dealer? The technician (given that most service shops require technicians to buy their own tools)?
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,568
    that describes my co-worker to a tee! Honestly I hope she gets stuck with the car, and the dealer doesn't cave in to her whims. I don't think they will though. When she mentioned the name of the place, my first thought was oh, crap. She got screwed. Now, maybe she didn't, but traditionally, this particular dealer wasn't the most reputable in the world.

    But then she's the type of person who's going to turn ANY transaction into a melodrama, no matter how good the experience is, so the last thing I'd want to do is send her to the guy who sold me and my Dad our cars! I like the guy too much to do that to him!

    The other day she also said something that I thought was amusing. A few people had recommended CarMax to her. She flat-out said that she wasn't going to deal with them, because she feels that too many people pawn off their problem cars on CarMax! Well DUH...don't you run that risk with ANY used car business? She's also a fine one to talk...back in '02 when she bought her minivan, she had traded a '97 Taurus SHO in on it, that was a basket case waiting to happen! I remember that she commented that she just hoped it kept running long enough until the deal was sealed! :surprise:

    What goes around, comes around, I guess. I'll keep y'all posted on how she does with this transaction. I know she's going to give me the blow-by-blow, whether I ask for it or not! :shades:
  • rolson1rolson1 Posts: 25
    As in everything in life...it depends....Some dealers have a 3 day return policy on used cars (in our State: Minnesota) but NEW cars pose a problem. A car is contracted and sold on the date noted and sometimes if the vehicle isn't "funded" by the bank or credit source, it can be returned as it's really not paid for. When the funding has taken place or cash has been paid it gets real dicy as THEN it's a USED car and the warranty has started to tick. I would say in our state, it would SOMETIMES be possible to return a car, but it would depend on the dealers stated policy. There...that's clear as mud
  • rolson1rolson1 Posts: 25
    Ask for a quote on the vehicle. Tell them if you KNOW you have any special discounts because of where you or your spouse work; military service; or coupons you may have gotten in the mail. Ask them to tell you if they have a documentation fee and how much it is. Ask if they have an "mandatory" options and if they have the unit IN stock or can locate one, like you want.
    Make sure the wording in the response is accurate and forthright. Then buy where you feel comfortable.
  • rolson1rolson1 Posts: 25
    How do they make it hard?...well
    1. They don't tell the truth about what they want for the trade
    2. They don't tell the truth about what they wish to pay for the new one
    3. They don't do the math with regard to what they can afford.
    4. They don't tell you what it is they are trying to accomplish with the chosen vehicle (use of same)
    5. They tell you they "don't want to play any games" and then proceed to play them!
    ....and last but I am sure...not least. It's OK not to like the car you just drove, and I will respect you a lot more if you can look me in the eye and say, "gee, I wouldn't feel comfortable buying this car, at any price"

    "The only thing your buried with, is your word....make sure it's worth something so your missed"
  • bobstbobst Posts: 1,783
    "The only thing your buried with, is your word....make sure it's worth something so your missed"

    That quote reminds me of something I read on an old tombstore near Micanopy, Florida: "Truly he was the noblest work of God, for he was an honest man."
  • rolson1rolson1 Posts: 25
    28 year rule of thumb:

    Everyone is a buyer until they PROVE they are not. That sometimes takes 15 minutes...sometimes an hour....while the actual sale might take three months...from rightup to delivery....but I treat everyone the same until they ask to be treated differently, buy body language, or actual verbiage. Your selling yourself, so don't go cheaply.
  • jayellesevenjayelleseven Posts: 150
    K well...
    1. Why does what they want for the trade matter? If they trade in they're lacking sense, trade-ins will ALMOST never give you what a private sale will.
    2. They don't tell the truth because the dealer won't like it, and if they're credit not good, then they shouldn't even bother.
    3. They do math but forget about the overall total, EVERYTHING. They know what they can afford but might be desperate.
    4. It depends, they might jus want a car to take them from Point A to Point B. Or they might want the jazz, the hype, the looks, the STATUS. For that, yeah they prollie work figures they can't afford.
    5. They DONT wanna play games cuz dealers like to add and add to the price. They say, "You'll give this much down, and pay this per month" Yet, why give anything down when the dealer won't let you save $ on financing??

    And for the LAst one, they must be stupid for buying a car they don't really like, maybe its not THEIR money they're spending, who knows, rich kids nowadayz.
    But you're right with some things because some customers are really unwise when shopping and THAT IS where the dealerships try to take advantage.

    They gonn' stick the customers who don't know what they're doing so when a slick costumer comes by, they won't worry since they will have already made a 'profitable' sale of the LAstest Mr. and Mrs. No Brain...
  • jayellesevenjayelleseven Posts: 150
    Everyone's a buyer? What am I doing wrong then? I tell salesman exactly what I want, EXACTLY and at what price (and yes a serious price with sense to it), and that I have money ready, that I just have to choose between 2 cars. They seem to not care, as if they say- we'll see if he comes back.
  • laserpamlaserpam Posts: 8
    Help! I am in the final stages of purchasing a 2005 Avalon. I am as you have described a "grinder" - I have done all my homework on pricing. But, I cannot find any info on fair pricing for Toyota Extended Warranties. I am interested in the Platinum 7 yr/100 K .00 deductible - The guy told me $2,100 & that the pricing for warranties "were in stone". Yet, I have read through the forums & seen this for $985 - $1,650. Help me - where can I go on the net for correct info?
  • grelcargrelcar Posts: 2
    Thanks for all the replies.

    One could get the impression from reading some of the posts in this thread that a lot of salespeople would just as soon you stay away from a dealership if you don’t intend on purchasing a vehicle on the spot. I am sure this is partly due to the pressure many of them are under to make a sale each time they approach a potential customer.

    I would never consider entering a price negotiation on a car I had no intentions of buying. That would be a waste of everyone’s time, certainly mine.

    If I have serious intentions of purchasing a vehicle in the very near future, say within a week or two, I would want to have some sort of dialog going on with a potential salesperson or dealership. It reasonable to expect this?

    Unless the model of car I decide upon had some zero interest money available, and none currently do, I would not be financing through the dealership. I would have payment in full at the time of delivery. I don’t know if this matters to the salesman or not. If I am paying for the vehicle in full I don’t see why I would have to undergo a credit check. Is this a reasonable assumption or not? What method of payment other than cash would be most acceptable? Would it be reasonable to expect to not have to sit through the F&I pitch as would have no interest in any of their services?

    I also would not be trading in another vehicle which I feel only complicates the whole process.

    The vehicles I am considering are all in the 35K-45K price range. Should I expect a different level of service from a dealership than if I we purchasing a 12K-15K vehicle? Is this a logical approach to purchasing a new vehicle or am I overlooking something obvious?
  • kurtamaxxguykurtamaxxguy Posts: 677
    It's understandable that dealers don't want customers to drive anything unless they are to buy immediately. Test drives wear down their stock, and tie up staff/free lancers/etc..

    That is why the GM "auto show in motion" was such a good idea. GM did not have to provide lunch or necessarily free parking (but did). Their offering the chance to compare vehicles by driving them against each other was in my case very helpful. For the first time I learned how a BMW, Mercedes, Corvette actually drove, and have an idea what dealers/products I'd like to check out in the future.

    Perhaps other manufacturers, or a consortium of dealers that can "pool" demos, can do the same thing? Let's hope so! One advantage is the staff can keep the testing "reasonable", and there is no pressure to nail a commission.

    a side note: one luxury vehicle dealer I visited pumped me for my Social Security Number even though I said several times I would pay __cash__ for the vehicle. They finally relented and accepted my driver license number, then turned me over to the finance department jerks that wrecked whatever chance the salesperson had with me. Frankly, the financing (even with cash) has always been the nastiest part of buying a car.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,790
    >. If I am paying for the vehicle in full I don’t see why I would have to undergo a credit check

    By running a credit check based on your soc. sec. # or your driver's license info they know your job, income level, bank account levels, so that helps them know how much you should have to spend with them. Knowledge for their side of the negotiation.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,225
    When people write checks, we have them fill out very basic credit information. Name, address, phone and SSN. We pull their credit to make sure they are real before handing them the keys to a 25,000 car.

    If they object to this as very few do, they can bring us a cashier's check and we won't pull their credit. We also verify full coverage insurance.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,790
    I kept running in to sales people wanting my driver's license to check info before talking car. The driver's license in Ohio used to have the soc. security on the front. Now they contain a lot of info in a magnetic stripe on the back.

    By the time my wife and I are ready to write the check out of checking or a money market account, the dealer usually knows he doesn't have to check on it. But I can understand in most cases there would be a verification that the bank account has XXXXX in it for the check written.

    Usually the first probing question out of a salesman's list is "What kind of work do you do."

    I always thought I would work as a car salesman after I retire from this work. Now I don't think so... In 23 more days I'll have to start looking for something. Maybe I will check with the local dealer..., Nah. Too rough a job for me now.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,225
    Call me first. This is kinda a "retirement" job for me too..long story.

    I don't know if that is a probing question. Sometimes I know I'll ask that but not right away. I like to establish a bit of common ground if I can. A couple of days ago, I had a customer from Bellingham. I causually mentioned that a guy who went to high school in California with me had moved to B'ham a few years back and bought an upscale restaurant. Turns out my customer knew him quite well.

    E-mail me and I'll tell you the good and bad.
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Posts: 2,882
    " E-mail me and I'll tell you the good and bad. "

    Just sent you an email......
  • denali856denali856 Posts: 118
    .... I guess the point is, you kinda pay for the bad habits of the bad buyers that have set-up the standard reaction from most dealers after all of these year .....

    After reading some of the honest responses from some of the pros here, I actually understand this. It was frustrating to me personally when I didn't get what I feel to be a serious or appropriate response to my inquiries, but I have a better understanding now of why some dealers might have responded in the way they did. I *still* don't particularly like it, but I understand it. :)

    Thanks to you and to the other pros who've chimed in.
  • jipsterjipster Louisville, KentuckyPosts: 5,743
    I suppose most dealerships don't deal with rebuilt wrecks. But, if they are rebuilt properly and inspected...don't they represent a very good value? I have a friend at work whose brother rebuilds wrecked cars turned into insurance companies...I've looked at several of the cars she has bought from him and could not tell it had been wrecked, drove fine. Do this kind of cars usually just show up at auctions and lower end used car lots? Just curious.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    .... **Do this kind of cars usually just show up at auctions and lower end used car lots? Just curious.** ....

    They show up all the time ... obviously they have to "declared" and you pay .25/.50cts on the dollar ....... good deal.? .. most lenders won't loan $$ on a Salvage/rebuilt, most insurance companies won't insure them and depending on the situation the warranty goes Void ---- other than that, they're super duper ..l.o.l..... did I mention they have the resale value of 4 day old piazza..??

    Terry. ;)
  • stulujustuluju Posts: 8
    Thanks for the Info

    I'm not buying a 2005 because I will not need a second car until late summer. I figured by that time I might as well buy a 2006 because they come out soon thereafter.

    Do you know if the 2006 will have any additional features when it comes out and how is the pricing when it first comes out. Is there a high demand and do you have to pay a lot over MSRP.

    The last New Car I bought two years ago was in May and I think I got a pretty good deal.

    Thanks
  • buck0086buck0086 Posts: 52
    Today I received this message from a Honda dealer:

    Thanks again for the interest in a 2005 Pilot EXL. I have this model and colors in stock . AHFC has a low interest APR program in effect this month as low as 1.9% (OAC) . Please keep me informed of your intentions.....

    I have three questions:

    1) What does "OAC" stand for?
    2) Is anyone aware of this financing incentive? I could not find it on edmunds.com or the Honda website. There is a Pilot lease special and financing on the Accord and Civic, but not the Pilot. Am I missing something here?
    3) How tough is it to qualify for these financing specials. Are they nearly impossible?

    Thanks for your help.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,225
    O.A.C. On Approved Credit

    No 1.9 financing on Pilots now.

    It's not that hard to quality for the best rates. You do need above average credit though.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 134,184
    The key term in your message from the Honda dealer?

    AHFC has a low interest APR program in effect this month as low as 1.9% (OAC) .

    He doesn't say this applies specifically to Pilots, does he?

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • mav1mav1 Posts: 5
    I have been on the market for a new S4. The dealership I leased my last car from has an S4 that I would like to buy. Invoice price for this car is $49,340
    (with options) they want $51,000 this price includes a charge of $506.00 for prep of car and a office fee, that I have never heard of before! and is not on the agreement as a separate item.
    they also would like me to buy an extended warranty. I am not sure what to do.
    Is this $506.00 charge for preping the car legitimate? and is $51,000 a good price.
    Please help! buying cars has really stressed me out. I have not been able to sleep much, I am writing this and its 4.30 am.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ............ Sorry to hear about your sleep disorder ..... me, I sleep like a dead person ...

    Anyhoo ...... $51,0 is an Excellent price .....

    ..... the $506 for the prep, is poo-poo butter .. there is no such thing, they get paid by Audi 2.5 hours for the PDI, "pre-delivery inspection" ..... extended warranty.? unless your going to keep this dude for the next 4/5 years and pile up 50,000+ miles I wouldn't consider it .. that said, vehicles like Benz, Bimmer and Audi have to have extended warranty's if your going to keep them -- their repairs ain't cheap and not for the light of heart, but I think there is some info on this board about Audi waranties that you can get .... Office fee.? if they want to charge you $49 for the paperwork, tags and title fee's, fine ......

    Lets add all this up: carry your one, add the six, divide by two, subtract 10, then multiply by 6 .... uuuhm, that comes to .. lets see, aah, it comes to $51,049 plus the taxes ........



    Terry.
  • mirthmirth Posts: 1,212
    Quick question for the professionals: what's the average interest rate you typically do for financing deals? Just wondering how many people actually qualify for the 4-5% interest rates.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,225
    Terry is dead on here. If you plan to keep an Audi, an extended warranty is a requirement! You have no idea how much trouble these cars are as they age!
  • bobstbobst Posts: 1,783
    Mav, I don't know if you have been around this DG long enough to know the frequent contributors, but you should take Isell's and Terry's advice very seriously.

    Mav, car buying should be fun. There are a lot of cars cheaper than Audis that are wonderful to drive. Would you be less stressed out if you bought a cheaper car?
  • toyotakentoyotaken Posts: 897
    The interests rates are going to vary depending on where you live to some extent. With the steady rise in interest rates from the Federal Reserve, I haven't seen rates in the 4's in several months. Most are in the high 5's to low 6's up to 60 months from what I've been seeing latey anyway...

    Hope this helps.

    Ken
  • alfoxalfox Posts: 716
    ...I'd put the money into a cruise and kick back some. Life's too short.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,225
    Ah...yes! There is NOTHING like a cruise!
  • denisemanndenisemann Posts: 1
    We purchased a vehicle from Gwinnett Place Ford, Georgia they did the financing through Ford Motor Company, After a year my daughter had a wreck vehicle totaled then we found out our insurance company would not cover but 75% of the loan due to it having a salvage title .Is it legal in the state of Ga. to sell a vehicle finance a vehicle without disclosing any information to the consumer or the company financing the product?? Is there any legal I can do to make Gwinnett own up to this? We lost a total of around 10,000 on this ordeal any advice or legal steps I need to take would be appreciated.
  • toyotakentoyotaken Posts: 897
    I don't know what the laws are in Georgia, but you could make some calls to the DA in your locality to find out if it is something that needs to be disclosed prior to the sale. I know that here in NY state, it is a requirement to disclose vehicles with salvage titles.

    Ken
  • danf1danf1 Posts: 935
    The title would have been branded as rebuilt. I can't tell you if any more disclosure is required by Georgia law. It may be a case of buyer beware. Always read what you are signing. You definitely need to speek to a lawyer about this. Good luck and I hope your daughter is alright.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 34,081
    remember, if you financed, you probably never saw the title itself. It would have to be disclosed.

    This has to be about the last thing a dealer would want to get out (assuming they are reputable), that they are trying to pawn off salvage cars as legit, even if buried someplace on one of the many forms you sign it is disclosed (you know, the slew of stuff you sign to let them do the DMV work, etc.).

    I'm not a lawyer, but sometimes there is legal, ethical, and what you get when a news van and a consumer affairs reporter shows up.

    First step, of course, is to get your paperwork in order, and meet in person with a decision maker at the dealership. What they say can help define your next steps.

    2019 Acura TLX A-spec 4 cyl. (mine), and 2013 Acura RDX AWD (wife's)

  • liferulesliferules Posts: 531
    Mav,

    The S4 is a blast of a car! Congrats and enjoy the car. I agree with the others, though, in that you shouldn't let the car buying process stress you too much, it will ruin the otherwise fun of getting a new car.

    I also agree that if you plan to keep any expensive car past manufacturer's warranty period, you may want to consider extended warranty. Certainly Audi's aren't the most reliable compared to Lexus, etc... so its even more applicable for them. That being said..I'd prefer to drive an S4 over most "more reliable" cars out there. Just as reliability is a factor to consider when buying, so is "fun factor", IMO.

    Last point, I believe the S4 shares the engine with the A6 4.2 and their reliability is mid-pack last checked (certainly not something to be proud about, but not something to avoid either)...

    Good luck.
  • ronstoyronstoy Posts: 55
    I am looking at a new Toyota, doc fees are about $239 to $260 depending on the dealer. What is this for? My wife would love to go to the DMV to get the paperwork/license for $250. Is that all the doc fees are for? Can you volunteer to get your own plates and not pay the fee?
  • ellusionz21ellusionz21 Posts: 59
    I've read a few places where people get good deals by going thru a fleet manager. Who are fleet managers? How do these people get ahold of them? And what kind of deals can they get this way?
This discussion has been closed.