Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

isellhondas · December 2005

Well, when Honda financing ends, it ends. There is no grace period. I'm not sure what exactly transpired between you and your dealer so I can't really offer you any advise.

isellhondas · December 2005

Yeah, that's what I call a "love it or hate it" color. You love it and that's what matters.

Hopefully everything will work out and you will avaid the pitfalls.

chuck1 · December 2005

"It's not as simple as that. The vehicle must be certified (via a California sticker) that it is smog compliant. Just because a vehicle is California smog compliant does not necessarily mean that it is California smog certified."

It's not uncommon for some car makers to ship models of California state certified vehicles to adjacent states. I purchased a very slightly used '01 Mazda 626 when it was only about 6 months old with Arizona plates here in California. I called the Auto Club for advice, and they said if there is a sticker under the hood which reads something like "this vehicle meets all Federal standards AND CAILFORNIA" that I would be OK. The sticker was there. So it was just a matter of paying the used tax, smog check, and DMV fees like any other used car purchased from a private party.

landdriver · December 2005

I've sent out 5 internet quote requests for a factory order for a 2006 Ford Ranger and requested an option not normally allowed by the brochure (am requesting appearance package which upgrades the bumpers, grille, wheel rims, and adds fog lamps; this option is available on the V6 but not on the 4cyl which is what I am ordering) -- the dealers tell me their build tools don't allow this configuration (even when I went in to speak with one in person). Yet a guy on the internet said he was able to get a non-standard configuration, in this case a longbed that is not normally available on a given trimline:

"For 2006 they've added this option to the XL; last year was only available on the XLT."

"Well that's what I initially thought, too... but, I have a 2005 XL longbed... it turns out the Ford website was in error - it wouldn't let you build one. But the dealer could build it in CONCEPS and order it..."

Is it possible for dealerships to request a non-standard configuration from the factory? Does anyone know what CONCEPTS is?

boomchek · December 2005

For the best explanation of Honda's terms, call Honda Financing or the dealer and it will be spelled out on the contract.

With Honda Canada's Financing you can pay off a loan early with no penalties. Find out from honda in US if they have similar terms.

isell is right. There is no grace terms on financing rates and once the month ends unless a dealer has a pre registered (dealer titled) car they cannot carry over low rates to a new month.

The finance office at the dealership might have assumed you want 60 months because most people take that term.
They should have called you about it if they weren't sure, or you should have mentiuoned something when you were signing the papers. Anyways they probably tried to be on the safe side because if they'd put you down for 24 months, the payments might have been high, especially on a Pilot.

boomchek · December 2005

With Honda Canada it is not possible to order a "custom" car from the factory.

You can't order a special color or fabric color not found on the particular model, nor can you do the same for equipment.

I don't know about any other vehicle manufacturers. If 5 delaers told you you can't order it that way and the 6th said you can, I'd be on the safe side and go with the 5 other dealers. Guy #6 might have made a mistake. Be wary cause you don't want to end up with a truck with features you didn't want.

aparamedic · December 2005

I signed a contract on 11-25 and left a deposit for the dealership to locate a sage pilot... I was ready to make the purchase during the special finance period, but the dealership couldn't locate a sage pilot, so things were on hold. They told me that I would still qualify for the special rate while they were searching, but now that they have located a backup color, they are telling me that I can only get the "regular" rate at 4.9%...

sbell4 · December 2005

If you recall, you were warned that this was going to happen.

My advice now would be to go ahead and finance the car for 60 months using the 4.9% and just pay it off in 24 months. Congrats on your new car and good luck in life.

jipster · December 2005

...so what's your question?. You don't have the color or the finance rate you wanted. Either ask them to knock off a couple hundred bucks and throw in some perks to compensate for the higher interest rate. Or, since you are not obligated to purchase, due to the agreed upon interest rate no longer being available, take yo business elsewhere.

fredvh · December 2005

Nice picture! What kind of aircraft is that in the background?

isellhondas · December 2005

Why should they do that? It wasn't the store's fault the buyer delayed the purchase because they were stuck on a certain color!

The buyer was aware of the risks.

audia8q · December 2005

Is it possible for dealerships to request a non-standard configuration from the factory? Does anyone know what CONCEPTS is?

CONCEPTS is the Ford dealer ordering system...and yes sometimes a non-std config can be done but not in all cases. It's usually reserved for fleet sales. example, the local tree service orders trucks thru us and since they order 10 each time they can get a special order color not available to the public....

jipster · December 2005

Well, he said the dealership told him he would still qualify for the special interest rate while they were searching. He signed the contract and put down a deposit...did everything he could. The dealership wasn't forthcoming with the truth. They should have told him when the special interst rates promotion would expire...espcially since he had brought up financing/rates before.

leomort · December 2005

Haven't been here to the Smart Shopper at Edmunds for few thousand post. Question: How often are owners trading in their cars? Looks to be every 2-3yrs?

Side question: If you want to get anything worthwile out of your trade-in, is it better to trade the vehicle in before it hits the 100K mark?

Can you tell that I have tendency to run against the grain regarding car ownership, eh?

Thanks

Leo

rroyce10 · December 2005

... Hey Leo, how are ya ........ gettin' a little snow up there in PA.?

7/8 years ago the average person was trying to trade every 40/48 months .... today, the average buyer is trying to trade every 25/30 months ....

Terry.

leomort · December 2005

'Morning Terry!

Keeping you busy here I see

Yep, got a decent amount of snow last night through the morning. Glad I had the AWD Explorer. The wife won't let me forget it, lol!

So I was pretty close in my guesstimate for trade-ins. And here I was debating whether I want to trade my '99 Prizm in 2009 or hold off.....lol! They'll probably be over the 100k mark by then. So perhaps when the vehicles are between 7-8yr old......they should be just under the 100k mark then.

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my question.

Regards,

Leo

landdriver · December 2005

Thanks boomchek and audia8q.

bigdveedubgirl · December 2005

When you left the deposit did fill out a credit application and ask them to submit you to HONDA? Some lenders such as AUDI will secure a rate for 30 days upon approval. On FACTORY order cars, you can secure the rate until the car arrives. BUT if the rate is better when the car arrives you have to take the rate you are approved at. But that is not all lenders. And really the dealer is not in the wrong at all, it seems as though they bent over backward to make you happy, for virtually no profit. 4.9 is an awesome rate these days.....RUN with it.

boomchek · December 2005

How are you guys doing on your 2006 Civic inventory?

The Si just arrived, but we are sold out until February/March.

The most popular model by far is the DXG automatic. Three month wait list for those.

isellhondas · December 2005

Our Civics are usually pre-sold before they arrive on our lot. Haven't received an SI yet but we have three in transit. I think one of these has a deposit. I have no idea what a DXG is? Must be something unique to Canada?

Supplies are slowly getting better but it's still frustrating.

graphicguy · December 2005

Guys...let's say I'm in the market right now for.....um....let's say an Acura TL. Dealer has some new '05s on the lot, and a bunch of '06s. Change between model years is, at best, minimal.

Let's say I'm looking 4-5 years down the road when I may trade/sell it.

Which would be worth more? An '05 with low, low miles (since I'm basically saving a year's worth of mileage for the model year? Or, an '06 with average mileage for the model year?

Any takers?

qbrozen · December 2005

well... rather than hypothetical, why not use real numbers ... if I understand your question correctly...

for instance, compare an '02 TL with, let's say, 40k miles, against an '03 TL with 40k miles. Or do you mean a larger gap than that? So compare an '02 with 30k vs. an '03 with 40k and see what you get.

My money is on the '03, by the way.

jasmith52 · December 2005

It's a little more complicated than comparing 02' and 03' prices.

If you are buying last years left over model then you better get a pretty good discount over this years model. The discount may be lower price, a bigger rebate, or a low interest rate loan.

So to get a fair comparison, you really need to compare the price of the 03' to the (02' plus the discount you received for buying the previous years model). That is the only difference that makes any sense.

And for what it's worth, you usually come out ahead buying the current year model. The exception, is when you keep your car for longer periods before trading (like more than 7 years or so).

qbrozen · December 2005

well, certainly, i understand what you are saying, but that wasn't the question asked. He simply asked which is worth more. Without knowing the purchase price of each, we can't begin to calculate what you are proposing.

graphicguy · December 2005

good questions.....as q said, I'm trying to find out if the lower price (let's say $1,500 less) of a new '05 with lower mileage (given it's model year) would be worth going after over an '06 (with average mileage, but cost $1,500 more) in 3-4-5 years from now.

steine13 · December 2005

I can't answer the question outright, but I think I got the flavor over the years through the advice of Terry and others.

You do NOT want to have a car that is perceived as a high-miler. If you drive 20k a year, by all means get the '05, provided you get a reasonable discount. After 3 years, you either have a "4-year-old car with 60k" or a "3-year-old car with 60k" miles on it.

For reasons that are completely beyond me, car dealers view the older car more kindly than the perceived "high-miler".

OTOH, if you drive 10k a year, like I do, you'll do better paying an extra grand or two to get the '06, cuz' in three years' time, you'll have an '06 with miles that are lower than the typical lease return. So you'll have a desirable 3-year-old car, rather than a "freak" four-year-old car.

I hope this makes some sense. I am trying to put into words a philosophy that I don't subscribe to personally.

-Mathias

kdhspyder · December 2005

Great guidance here. I too work at an auto store and this little bit of guidance pushed me to pull the trigger on an '05 Prius over an '06 Prius next month .. even with the larger potential tax benefit.

I drive 45K/yr and as Mattias said it's better for me to have an '05 which in 12 months when the '07's come out seems that I've 'only' driven it 22K/yr.

Plus I got the last '05 Prius we had at a discount!

Essentially it seems, Terry?, that miles are a greater 'wear factor' than time.

oac · December 2005

Interesting points. I assume that graphicguy's original question is for a comparably equipped car. But what if the new '06 has significant new features than the '05 ? Or say, a complete re-design, as in for example, buying an '06 LS430 vs an '07 LS460. Would that change the dynamics of which is a better deal 3-4-5 yrs down the road ?

graphicguy · December 2005

oac....while my question was specific to an Acura TL, I would imagine the same scenario would work for a Lexus.

The differences between an '05 TL and an '06 TL are next to nothing.

Mathias & kdh....you "nailed" the intent of what I was trying to find out. Unless I hear someone with a different take, I've always thought the "bigger discount" one could get on an outgoing model year would offset the "one year newer,...but less discount" '06 model with higher mileage for the model year.

I'm thinking more along the lines of an '05 model that in '09 has 60K miles vs an '06 model with 60K miles. '05 model cost $1,500-$2,000 less than the '06, yet there are minimal differences between the model years as far as upgrades, specs and equipment levels.

savvyknight · December 2005

The other way to answer this debate is to look at an ALG book.

The Nov-Dec guide has an 06 TL (no navi) with a 48 month residual of 47%. The 05 has a 42% residual. These numbers assume a 15k driving habit.

So basically, using these residuals, on a $40000 MSRP car, you would need to spend $2000 less on the 05 to make it pay off. If you can save more than $2k, then you are coming out ahead.

This of course assumes that you don't have a preference either one way or the other regarding the potential differences between the model years.

boomchek · December 2005

Our DX-G Civic is a model up from the DX. Our DX comes with power windows, mirrors, CD, ABS, and all the Airbags.

The DXG adds A/C, power locks with keyless entry, and the centre armrest for $1500CDN more.

It's frustrating for us too because we have no cars to deliver. But the DXG wait time is aboiut 2 months right now.

The Si Civics are pre-sold-out until March.

allfiredup · December 2005

Hi,

This seemed like the best discussion to ask this question-

I'm buying a car out of state. I know I'll have to pay sales tax here in Georgia, but I'm wondering how that works? Do they bill me or must I pay immediately at the tag office when I register the car? I've looked on several state websites and haven't found any answers.

At least I dodged ad valorem tax. It's not due if you buy within 59 days of your birthday, I'm 57 days away as of today.

Thanks for any answers!

savvyknight · December 2005

This will vary from state to state.

I live/work on the Ohio and Indiana state line. For the last 10 years, I've been working at a dealership in Ohio. When we sold an Indiana customer, we collected no sales tax, and the customer paid all of their tax when they went to their license bureau.

I am now at a dealership in Indiana. When we sell a car to an Ohio resident, we collect 6% of the tax (Indiana rate) and the customer pays the balance when they go license their car in Ohio.

My advice, ask the finance manager at the store you're buying the car from if they collect and tax and forward it to your state.

kdhspyder · December 2005

I work in Va but sold a Sienna to a couple in Atlanta who were within days of having a baby. I drove the van to them and just gave them the papers in exchange for their check. They took the papers to DMV in Atl and paid the taxes there.

ti99juana · December 2005

Totally!!!

veekaye · December 2005

I bought an 06 sedan recently.

I had agreed on a price verbally over the phone with a salesman and manager. I went down to buy the car soon after. The salesperson was still accurate in the price we agreed on once I got there, and the next step was to proceed into the finance manager's office to sign all the paperwork.

After signing all the paperwork, driving the car home and looking at the contract, etc., I noticed the manager wrote the starting price (sell price) in very wrong.... 3K mistake in my favor... I proceeded to notice all paperwork had this (no accounting mistakes) and all papers are signed by the manager.

I walked out the door with copies of all paperwork in my hand, and the dealer received a check in the full amount from my loan officer (didn't finance through the dealer).

Can the dealer do anything, once they've found the mistake? Legally and/or try illegally? The Finance manager has (3 days later) found the mistake, and called me simply saying there was a paperwork mistake and I owe money (although there's nothing in the papers that would suggest that)

Advice??

allfiredup · December 2005

Since they wrote the erroneous price on all the documents, my gut feeling is that you're in the clear legally. They could possibly try to sue you, but I doubt they would if they knew they had no legal claim. I certainly wouldn't put it above them to threaten you with legal action, though.

There are of course questions of ethics/karma. I find it amusing that a car dealer screwed themselves after doing it to so many customers, so I'm not sure if normal rules of ethical behavior should apply?

I would give the guy at the dealership a call and see what he has to say. Perhaps negotiate and only pay half of the error amount? Just a thought.

The other thing I'd consider, though you may think I'm paranoid, is that MANY car sales/finance persons are not of the strongest moral fiber. You might walk out to your new car and find the tires slashed or windows smashed. Again, not likely, but you never know.

kyfdx · December 2005

All of the papers that you have, may have the incorrect information...

But, most dealers keep a file, and keep every single piece of paper used during the offer process... It is likely that there is piece of paper with your signature, that shows the correct agreed upon price....

And, if the dealer arranged financing... they have the "big stick"... They just won't finalize the financing, until everything is in order..

I'll leave the ethics question to the rest of the forum..

regards,
kyfdx
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veekaye · December 2005

I never signed anything with the correct price... as I'm pretty sure I can remember only signing a handful of papers, of which he made copies of for me. There was a family member with me and remembers everything that happened as well.

And the financing,... I have everything secured already through my credit union. I delivered a full amount check to them a few days later, of which the same finance manager gave me a receipt for.

jipster · December 2005

So, after verbally agreeing to... say a $30,000 sedan, you signed all the paper work indicating that you were buying it for 30k but that it should have been sold at 33k?...and you didn't notice till driving home? Did you even look at all the documentation you were signing?

"Advice??"
Don't answer your phone. :P

They probably overcharged you 3 grand to begin with...so don't worry about it.

raybear · December 2005

How would you feel if the mistake was in the dealer's favor instead? Would you expect them to deal as fairly and honestly as you have been?

veekaye · December 2005

"You didn't notice till driving home? Did you even look at all the documentation you were signing?"

Well what about the dealer... out of all people, the finance manager didn't even notice and he actually wrote the price down a couple times by hand!

policelady · December 2005

Recently,
I was having trouble getting a new car. I had been driving my 2002 Chevy Impala and wanted a new car but was too "upside down" by 9,000 dollars. The Caddy dealer tried to help me at the beginning of 2005, but said there was no way to hide that much money. I waited 6 months before asking them again but they gave me the car eventually. Said that the only thing they could do for me to hide 9,000 dollars worth of upside down is to lease me a car because of my "good credit". I am not sure if I was taken advantage of or not, but I enjoy the car, but the note is exstremely high. Seems like it should have been smaller given my "good credit".

allfiredup · December 2005

Just curious, can you tell us what kind of car it is? Or roughly the price?

So you're calling this a mistake because you had discussed one price in negotiations and they wrote down $3k less, right?

You know, when you go to the check out at Kroger and they have something marked less than it is, you still get the lower price. Not trying to say it's right in this situation, but it is interesting. Maybe this is karma giving the dealer a dose of his own medicine?

Here's a way to clear your conscience of any wrong doing and not pay the dealer any more- give the $3k to a charitable cause that you support. Just a suggestion.

veekaye · December 2005

Its an 06 Infiniti G35x

Yeah, I'm calling it a mistake because we verbally agreed over the phone on a price, yet in the contract write-ups, they put down 3k less.

Good suggestion on the karma thing... I do feel bad but then again I don't. I've been screwed over by dealer's before, plus I didn't get what I wanted on my trade-in anyways... not that that's a valid reason,...

I'm sure this whole thing got all the way to the accounting dept before it was noticed... as it took 3 and a half days.

kdhspyder · December 2005

good credit or not.. you are paying for 2 vehicles now.
It appears that GM 'ate' your negative equity by absorbing all or most of it through rebates and discounts but you are still liable for that debt. It was just rolled over onto the Caddy.

Good comparison..
You got a GREAT deal on a $44K Caddy for $35K but you had $9K N/E. That $9K was added onto the $35K of the new vehicle. You are paying for the new Caddy ( $35K ) as well as the last $9K of the Chevy. BTW, DO NOT look to get out of your Caddy before the last 2 mos of your lease.

Your note may be let's say $750/mo for 48 mos?

If your sister went in and got the same deal but had no N/E then her note would be something like $550-575 for 48 mos.

Stay in your new Caddy and enjoy it for the entire lease.

nogooddealers · December 2005

my wife has a 01 mitsubishi mirage that we thought we were going to be finished paying for in may 06, but a few months ago she received a statement from mitsubishi motors credit assoc. stating that at the end of may, ther will be a balloon payment in the amount of 6578 due at the end of the lease. My wife said that she had no idea that she had signed a lease and thought she was buying the car. The mileage taht we have on the car is over 104,000 miles. The dealer she got the car from is Thames Autoplex in Vicksburg Ms. He was shut down after doing some shady business deals and having to pay over 100, 000 dollars to past customers. We spoke with the attorney general in mississippi and were told to get a copy of her contract. Well, we contacted mitsubishi over a month ago and still haven't gotten the copy yet. we thought about trading the car in. there was a dealer who offerred 4,000 for the trade, and will forgive the mileage penalty. we initially were going to get another car at the end of may, anyway, but now with this balloon payment and negative equity, it's thrown a wrench in the plan. any advice. how does the upside down trade work.

benson1 · December 2005

How closely does a dealership inspect trade in cars? My wife's car has a leaky head gasket and will overheat after driving for an hour or so. To what extent should I divulge information on the true mechanics of the car? We would like to trade it in for a new car. Thanks for your help.

boomchek · December 2005

So you traded in a car on the G35x. If they added $3000 to the trade in value, then it would balance out.

Legally a dealer can go after you if they realized they made a mistake. If you read the back of the sales contract, it should be written there.

boomchek · December 2005

Your wife should have a copy of the contract she signed with that dealer. If she doesn't, then Mistubishi should, and she should get an attorney to push Mitsubishi to act quicker on retrieving the paperwork.

Or she should find out who the law firm was representing the consumers that received money back from that dealer (if it was a class action lawsuit), and see if they can do anything about it.

Upside down trade works like this: if you're trading in a car that's worth $4000, but you have $6500 left owing on it, then you would have to come up with another $2500 to cover the negative equity on the trade in.

Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

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