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The biggest problem I have with Honda is their restricted interior/exterior color options. For instance, I hate ivory/tan interior but I love white cars. You can't get a white Accord or Civic with anything other than ivory interior. There are a few colors of Accord (Carbon Bronze and Silver) and one Civic (Royal Blue Pearl) that offer a choice of two interior colors. I just think they should expand it to cover almost all exterior colors.
My third-most-recent car, a 99 Prizm LSi, was a special order... side airbags, no ABS, remote pwr locks, no pwr windows, cruise, no automatic, alloys, no sunroof... one of the oddest ducks I've ever seen.
I've never ordered a car, but I'd love to some day... the only issue, unless one is buying a Honda is the customer incentives are unpredictable.
Hmmm... 2007 Pontiac Vibe, base, stick, pwr, sunroof, abs and all airbags, block heater, unpainted cladding, steel wheels... don't think I'd find that car on the lot...
-Mathias
Terry.
When I was shopping for my Mazda3, I ran across a leftover '05 Mazda3 s 4-door that had leather, automatic, ABS/side airbags and Xenon headlamps/Tire Pressure Monitoring System. It didn't have the Moonroof/6CD which a dealer told me over half of s models are equipped with. It was the color I wanted and, had it been a manual transmission, I'd have seriously considered it. The dealer was offering a great deal (about $2800 off sticker). He told me it hadn't sold because of the lack of sunroof.
I also ran across a Mazda3 i (base) model that had the Appearance Package (air dam, fog lights, etc), ABS, Sirius radio, 6CD changer, automatic and rear spoiler. It stickered for $18,900 and had manual windows/locks and plastic wheel covers! Doubt that dealer will be moving that one anytime soon.
I wonder if Mazda dealers have any control over what cars they get?
Dealers, got 6 OTD internet quotes, 5 were within $50 of each other while the 6th was $400 below the rest (at invoice though the dealer said there's some dealer cash involved). Am planning to go with the latter dealer and wanted to include the time-cancellation clause as I had read that some unscrupulous dealers would delay an order and then say that because your car took so long prices went up and ask you to pay the higher price. Since a couple of you mentioned the dealer may be reluctant to include a time cancellation clause in an oddball order, is there any other way to guard against this? If the contract is written at the time of ordering, shouldn't this prevent the dealer from from raising the price when the car arrives?
Snetsky when I place my order I'll let you know what happens and if you do so before me I'd be interested to know what happens in your case!
Terry :sick:
I like the slogan of one manufacturer (Volvo?) --Safety is never optional!
You must take LX-plus and All sport to get side airbags and traction control. In the all sport pkg you get 17'' tires, 180 watt 6 disc changer, power seat, leather wheel, spoiler, auto dim mirror with homelike...and LX plus gives you body side moldings, privacy glass, floor mats, Rear A/C cargo mat and fog lights.
If was an oddball car the other store may have been just tickled when they got the trade request.
Was this the case also for 2005 or was the LX Plus the only package required to get side airbags?
Same in 2005 and 2004.
Traction Control IMO is the most important safety feature next to AirBags and ABS.
Would you rather Asian and Domestic cars raise their prices and make safety a standard? and how safe can a car be?
The only way Americans will pay for it, is if is standard. We are horrible drivers, we eat, drink, talk on our phone beat our kids while we are driving. 99% of us either have our child in the wrong saftey seat, strapped in wrong, or in no safety seat or booster at all. With all that in mind how can we put a price on safety.
I am not a safety expert but I would say I know a little more than the average person. I have only worked for 1 car company (vw/audi) and their big focus is safety, so its all I know. But I have been in a wreck in a VW going 40 miles and hour, (1995 Jetta) and not even a bruise And most recently I have been in a accident going 22miles an hour in a Ford (98 Mercury Tracer) and I knocked my jaw out of whack and had a nice size lump on my head and still really don't remember what happend.
Let me ask this VW has stability control standard on most models and has for years, why wont the Domestics step up? Its not that expensive. Its like a $350 option. Why is GM so proud that 2007 they will have it as option in all cars?
Big difference!
I live at the top of a fairly decent hill. It gets slick enough at times that it can be a bit tricky to get home. With our TC equipped vehicle, there were times when I would leave the car out on the driveway because by the time I got up the hill the brakes were smoking so badly I was afraid they might catch on fire. With our new, non-TC equipped van - a 2004 MPV, oddly enough - I can just get a decent run at it and let the tires spin to get past the tricky part. No stupid computer hitting the brakes for me at the most inopportune times.
By the way, I have the LX+ and 4 seasons pkgs and I think they're both worthwhile, for the rear heat / air and the larger radiator and transmission cooler.
-Jason
We have to determine what is a safety feature and what is not because a "few safety features" fall in a grey area of safety or convenience.
ABS was touted as a savior for drivers, yet it has had zero impact on accident rates.
Traction and stability control systems can be useful, but there are a few times when you don't want them. Also, I think they fool the average driver into thinking they can do more than they can.
I would rather have a car with a super strong body structure and well designed seats and seatbelts than a chintzy body structure and STC and ABS.
Someone posted they were offered a great deal on a Tribeca that had "wind" damage. This poster said they were getting a great deal but the vehicle came without a paint warranty. A few months ago a tornado caused some damage at the Subaru plant in Indiana so we presume this a vehicle that was damaged.
I'm of the opinion that if the vehicles were not totalled that Subaru would repair them and sell them as new. I point to the fact the dealers do repair work on incoming cars frequently and many time do not have to disclose it. I believe that these vehicles may have been totalled by the insurer (based on cost to manufacture) and are being sold by the insurer via auction.
Others contend that Subaru doesn't have the capability to do minor repairs at the factory and that they offered them at great deals to the dealers who can repair and sell them.
What say you experts?
The MPV currently has a $4,000 rebate if that makes any difference. Toyota is running zero % financing and zero down in our region...or $1,000 rebate on the Sienna.
Also, the rental companies buy MPVS and they dump them at the auction a year or so later. We buy some of these and they are great buys.
Its not just ABS and ESP and ASR that I am talking about, Its the whole Idea that many of the domestics cut corners to save a buck, and we as Americans do not care. I mean I came from the generation of tooling around in the back of pickups and all my friends in the back of a station wagon, and sharing a seatbelt with 2 other people and I am still alive to talk about it. But back then there was way less distractions.
I think the question I am trying to get an answer to, is Why doesnt the domestics put an emphasis on saftey like the germans do, when the technology is there? The VW Jetta is an 18k car yet has all the safety standard, and has a double best pick rating from the iihs? So to me it looks as though it is possible to build extremly safe cars inexpensively.
Here's my question: How many times in the last few years did you get in an accident such that you really needed both driver and passenger airbags. If you didn't get into a really bad accident, then airbags may not be needed.
Sounds pretty silly, huh? :P
Germany and Sweden have seemingly abandoned reliability altogether. Remember when a Mercedes was actually fairly problem-free? One has only to look at the numerous complaints on Edmunds, CarReview and elsewhere to see how riddled with problems the Jetta/Golf models are (coil pack, window regulators, etc).
I have nothing against VW because my bare bones Golf was a lot of fun to drive, but within two-three years just about every button and knob broke, the headliner fell, the mirror wouldn't stay glued to the window and there were chronic problems with the fuel system. We sold it after 6 years and 70K. By contrast my Honda Civic is now 13 years old with 118K and every switch works, it has never had any engine/fuel problems and it still runs like a top.
My point is that all the manufacturers tend to emphasize one thing or another, but can't be known for doing everything well--it's just the nature of a broad and highly competitive market. I agree that safety should be paramount, but one should also have a car that doesn't force one into bankruptcy with repair costs or depreciate like a stone because the manufacturer is forced to give them away to try to hold onto market share.
Gogiboy
Sine I drive pretty slow, I doubt I would ever need such a thing as 'stability control', whatever it is.
However, I am much more likely to be involved in an accident, so airbags are more important to me.
Now, if I had an inexperienced driver driving my car, I might want stability control. But, my daughter has about 12 1/2 years before she drives.
I look at stability control as a nice feature to have. However, I would rather have better tires and more airbags.
(now, with an SUV with high Center of Gravity, I would require the Stability and Anti rollover stuff).
1 VW's are built in Mexico, not the US. Lower labor costs.
2 The Jetta's chassis is shared by VW, Skoda, Seat, and in some cases Audi.
It allows you to spread the costs over a large number of cars.
It is not that American car companies don't care, it is that American car buyers won't pay a premium for safety.
Your $18,000 Jetta would have been shopped against a $15,000 Focus.
Actually, the '05 MPV has a $3000 rebate plus $1000 Mazda Finance Bonus Cash IF you finance thru them. The '06 MPV has $1500 rebate plus $500 Mazda Finance Bonus Cash.
Sorry, I know it isn't what you wanted to hear. Negative equity sucks. I've been in that boat before, too.
Wait until you are not negative to trade. Or better yet, pay it off and experience POSITIVE EQUITY!
You are right, it is a little cheaper, I just don't like the idea of paying around 2,500+ for stuff I do not need (fog lights, larger wheels) or do not like (spoiler, skirts). These 2 packages on the MPV bring it, inspite of all the rebates and incentives, very close to the base Odyssey - which is a little too big but a very nice van. Mazdas, at least an MPV, do not have great resale, and if I truly decide I prefer its smaller size, I can always look for a low-mileage, used one. Yes, it is likely to be a rental. No, it may not have side airbags.
I have driven and ridden in newer Siennas, MPV (03) and Odysseys belonging to our friends, and they are all nice enough, with some advantages and disadvantages. Keeping in mind that 06 is the last model year for it, I think it makes sense to buy an MPV new only if the discounts are very high, so that the TCO is kept in check.
I sat in a Mazda5 recently and realized that a minivan I would really enjoy and put to good use is a 3-row, 4-cylinder vehicle based on the NA-market Accord. Essentially, the pre-1999 Oddyssey with sliding doors. Mazda3/Eurofocus is just too small of a platform to build a minivan on. Alas, this vehicle probably does not exist and even if did, I doubt Honda would bring it to the US where customers have voted with their wallets for larger minivans.
Jipster - no excuses! I remember from another forum that own an MPV and really like it. More power to you. I like it a lot, too.
It is not that I am trying to get the lightest minivan (I'd be buying a 5 then, right?), it is that I commented that I never owned a vehicle heavier than a midsize sedan (Accord), and the dynamics of a larger vehicle are somewhat different.
The MPV currently has a $4,000 rebate if that makes any difference. Toyota is running zero % financing and zero down in our region...or $1,000 rebate on the Sienna.
As allfired pointed out, this is true for 05 but requires finacing with Mazda; 06s have lower incentives yet and most of those is in the form of dealer cash.
Not perfect but about as perfect as one can be.
Most buyers are aware of safety but not really ready to plunk down real money for it.. except now for the full package of airbags now that they've seen the videos that the IIHS has on its website. Nearly everyone wants all the airbags but many are still wary about ABS ( dont understand it often ). But they will take if for free as standard equipment.
ESC and Traction Ctrl are still too new to understand. If the IIHS had a video like the Euro-NCAP has there would be a much stronger demand. OTOH American drivers in no way push the envelope like European drivers do while driving. Also, in general Euro's are more willing to pay a larger percentage of their income than are Americans for the privilege of driving, consider the price of 'petrol', but they also want more in the vehicles.
As the Internet Manager, I also use AVV which works better than Autobase in some ways.