Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

imidazol97 · January 2006

Even washer and dryer repairs are amazingly simple. The metal bodies on ours just lift up and off!

jlawrence01 · January 2006

Even washer and dryer repairs are amazingly simple. The metal bodies on ours just lift up and off!

Until you forget to connect the hoses to the machine properly and flood four condos ... and have to deal with three angry, angry neighbors. Ask my neighbor.

Everybody in this world thinks they can lay sheetrock, do tuckpointing, etc. and why pay some moron to do it. Then you look at the finished product and you realize that people who do it for a living have learned something from years of experience ...

We always hear about the people who saved **BIG** dollars changing their oil and repairing their vehicle. We don't hear abou all the times that they screwed something up and had to have it redone later at the dealership. Human nature.

stickguy · January 2006

I used to do most of the basics. of course, in those days, I had cars that I could actually figure out. Now, I'm not sure I could get all the plastic shrouding off the engine, and you couldn't pay me enough to try and change the rear plugs on a transver V6 minivan (with the rear cylinder head up under the cowl).

These days, lots of repairs are easy, it's figuring out the part to change that can be hard.

Not like when I had a '67 Camaro stright 6. You could stand in the engine bay on either side of the engine, and literally wrap your arms around it (if they were long enough).

audia8q · January 2006

I know alot of you love stats....

Based on new cars sold in 2005 buyers purchased the following items.

33% environmental package
29.1% pre-paid maintance
24.9% theft deterrent
41.7% GAP
8.2% credit life
33.4% extended service plan
20.9% leased
79.8% financed

kyfdx · January 2006

Holy cow!! Your finance office must be carrying the dealership... :surprise:

How many of your customers do research on Edmunds? I'm guessing below 20%...

british_rover · January 2006

Well GAP can be a good idea espesialy for heavy cars like audis. GAP is about the only F&I thing that we really push.

isellhondas · January 2006

Wow...if 100.7% of the buyers leased of financed, what happened to the cash buyers?

jasmith52 · January 2006

Audia8q:

Were these stats of all cars sold nationwide ?

or were they from a particular dealer group or manufacturer ?

Or were they from one dealership ?

dino001 · January 2006

I assumed pre-paid maintenance on non-audis (isn't it "free" for new ones?). What the heck is "environmental package"? Rustproofing and paint sealant? :surprise:

Does your GAP percentage include those leases where it is usually inclued in MF or is it on top of those? One that buys GAP but has no money to put down for the loan deserves no sympathy from me, whatsoever. Didn't like math in school, pay now. :shades:

Like Kydfx said, Edmunds' readers: 5-15%

mirth · January 2006

...at any dealership --> 1-5%.

audia8q · January 2006

I knew this would create some discussion....the numbers have been compiled by several insurance companies directly related to the auto industry on 2005 sales. These numbers do not reflect my dealer group but the country as a whole...

Want a few more??...

the avg buyer spent 33.3 minutes in the finance office without a test drive and 16.7 minutes with a test drive.

avg credit scores of buyers per region
US avg 677
northeast 701
mid atlantic 689
south atlantic 675
east south central 673
west south central 654
west north central 694
mountain 669
pacific 676
Folks in New England carry almost double the debt than folks in the west south central area...but west south central has the highest consumer late payments, almost double over New england that has the least.

The avg customer rolled over $2811 in negative equity in 2005, $2682 in 2004, $1022 in 1995
30.4% of all buyers traded with negative equity...

mark156 · January 2006

Interesting stats.. thanks for posting.

Mark

bcb1 · January 2006

>>The avg customer rolled over $2811 in negative equity in 2005, $2682 in 2004, $1022 in 1995
30.4% of all buyers traded with negative equity...

Holy cow! What is wrong with people? You mean to tell me that 30% of all car buyers are rolling in negative equity from their last vehicle to their new vehicle...Dumb, dumb, and dumber.

Heck, I'm thinking that I'm going to be a few thousand shy of being able to pay for my next vehicle in cash, and THAT has been bugging me. I got the new car itch, but I just hate to scratch it until I can pay 100% in cash.

It's gotta be mostly younger buyers rolling in all that negative equity...yes? It's gotta be the young guys and gals that I see with the nice new car, 24" chrome wheels that cost a gazillion dollars, thumpin' car stereo that shakes the road from a half mile away...please tell me it's those guys that are doing this dumb stuff!

jeffyscott · January 2006

I think it is all the folks, young and old, who ask...how much per month? and not how much?

These are folks who think car payments, lease or loan, are just something that you always have. They are people who think they are saving money, if they buy a new car and their monthly payment is lower than it is on the one they are trading in...ignoring the added months of payments that they are signing up for.

kdhspyder · January 2006

Nope.. everyone who bought a GM/Ford/Chrysler product in the last 4 yrs. They cannot get out from underneath it..
Minivans..minivans..minivans.. any Ford SUV.. It's mostly the two-income working couple who are in a impulse purchase like a 250 duelie and now need to save some money.

How about this line which I'm certain you heard over the airways in the last 30 days.
"We'll give you $8000 over book for your trade"
...HONEY!!!! We're done!!

chuck1 · January 2006

"The avg customer rolled over $2811 in negative equity in 2005"

Having paid cash for all my cars (and having a FICO of 750plus), I can see some people are idiots....

jmonroe · January 2006

Reply to 15432

I am more than happy to pay the plumber (and keep MY hands clean) for his experience.

jlawrence01,

Sorry for the pep-talk in my post 15430. I thought you were somebody who wanted to do some of your own work but lacked confidence/experience. If I knew you were the type that doesn't like dirty hands, I would not have made the post since it didn't apply to you.

Frankly, there are very few things in life that are more enjoyable on a cool Saturday morning than the feel of warm motor oil on your hands and arms while doing an oil change yourself, but from what you have said about dirty hands, I don't think you will ever experience this.

Sorry again for boring you,

jmonroe

jmonroe · January 2006

Reply to 15443

I have actually done this once when I ran a shop by accident but I caught my mistake before it caused any problems. I starting draining the wrong fluid but realized pretty much right away that I had screwed up and slammed the plug back in before I lost too much tranny fluid.

britsh_rover,

How did you catch your mistake? Was it the common knowledge that transmission fluid is a shade of RED (depending on its' age/condition of the transmission) and used motor oil is usually BLACK ? Shouldn't anybody who is a "pro" at doing this kind of work be able to detect this?

Sounds like a another reason to DIY !!!

Good story,

jmonroe

jlawrence01 · January 2006

No problem.

When I moved from Cleveland to Chicago, we decided to downsize from a large 5-BR home to a small condo. It is a blast to come home evenings and know that I don't have to worry about snow removal, home maintenance or lawn care.

Personally, I prefer olive oil or canola oil to motor oil.

Enjoy what you like.

mikefm58 · January 2006

Very interesting indeed. I am amazed at the stats about negative equity. I couldn't imagine trying to roll over a couple thou in negative equity.

And also thank you for changing the subject. The DIY thread was getting old.

rroyce10 · January 2006

.. **>>The avg customer rolled over $2811 in negative equity in 2005, $2682 in 2004, $1022 in 1995
30.4% of all buyers traded with negative equity -- rolling in negative equity from their last vehicle to their new vehicle... Dumb, dumb, and dumber.
**

That 30.4% figure is waaaay low .. it's probably more like 50% ..... the 30% figure probably gets a little skewed because of rebates, incentives and sales tax - and that has nothing to do with it being a foreign or domestic vehicle, age, race or creed ...

Speaking of negative equity .. did anyone read yesterdays CNN/Money report on "Most overvalued housing markets" ..? it covers every market in the country ...... I can feel the bubble bursting from here .l.o.l..

Terry.

raybear · January 2006

Not at a Subaru store!

1racefan · January 2006

Depending upon the interest rate, it often benefits the buyer to finance the vehicle (even if they have the cash on hand to buy it). For the past few years, there have been so many 0%, 1.9%, etc.. deals out there to where it is often worth it to invest the money elsewhere, and finance the car.

However, there are the people out there that have to have the new IS350, or the new Mercedes S series, but don't even have enough cash in the bank to cover a brake job when that rolls around. I guess that will just go on the credit card.

zodiac2004 · January 2006

Do any of you have access to the info about the Manheim auctions at Milton (Ontario).

I'm very intersted to know how the 94-99 Integra 2dr 5-sp cars are doing.

kdhspyder · January 2006

For the past few years, there have been so many 0%, 1.9%, etc.. deals out there to where it is often worth it to invest the money elsewhere, and finance the car.

Weirdly there is also a positive side to negative equity too!!??

Say you are a youngish couple who wants to get a new vehicle due to family changes. If the traded-in vehicle is say $4000 upside down in a loan of say 7.9% ( First time buyer for example ) and the couple now can refinance a new minivan at 0% interest while rolling in the $4K negative equity it's actually a smart move.

That $4K has to be paid no matter what. Why pay 7.9% on it when you can pay 0% on it.

I run into this all the time with the 'credit recoveries'. Their first vehicle after their BK was at say 21.9% but they've kept their noses clean for 24 months on the 'BK beater' they had to buy at that time and they want a nicer more reliable vehicle. They have some negative equity as can be expected but now they qualify for say 10.9%. Paying off their NE at 10.9% sure is a lot easier than at 21.9%

1racefan · January 2006

"kdhspyder" - just curious - with the scenarios you presented above, what percentage of these folks that roll $4K in neg equity into the new car purchase Gap Insurance (in your experience)?

robr2 · January 2006

It's gotta be mostly younger buyers rolling in all that negative equity...yes? It's gotta be the young guys and gals that I see with the nice new car, 24" chrome wheels that cost a gazillion dollars, thumpin' car stereo that shakes the road from a half mile away...please tell me it's those guys that are doing this dumb stuff!

Also known as the gold collar generation!!

Yep, you can impress the ladies with the suit and watch, you can buy them $15 martinis, you can convince them to come home with you in your Escalade running on dubs... (insert needle scratching the record sound here)...but home is a room in your parent's basement!!

qbrozen · January 2006

i just went and took a look at that housing prices article, Terry. Wow! we could have a whole discussion on this ... too bad its not about cars.

maybe we could make it about cars ... how can anyone judge if a car is undervalued or overvalued if its going for the price the market will support? I mean, if EVERY '04 Lincoln Towncar is selling at a particular price, is that NOT the value??

kdhspyder · January 2006

If they are not up to the ceiling already on their payments and cant even afford any increase these folks do recognize the benefit of GAP. I'd say that the percentage who choose it is in excess of 80%. It's well worth it for the peace of mind.

F&I Mgrs have specific numbers? Terry?

jasmith52 · January 2006

So if 30.4 percent of buyers traded negative equity, and the average customer rolled $2811 of negative equity...

Then for those buyers who do roll negative equity then the average is an eye popping $9246
($9246 ==> $2811/30.4 %)

So if my math is correct then I have to agree with you that these buyers aren't too smart !

kyfdx · January 2006

That was my first take on it, as well... But, I think the average negative equity only applies to buyers that actually have negative equity...

There aren't too many banks that will let you roll over $9K..

regards,
kyfdx

kdhspyder · January 2006

You have to read it differently:

30.4% of buyers had NE
69.6% did not

of the 30.4% the average amount was $2811
for the 69.6% is was $0

What isnt shown is the large numbers of non-buyers who have to walk away because they have multiple negative equities on a vehicle totalling as much as $10-15000. Several times a week potential buyers will try to trade out of vehicles like this but just cannot.

mazda6iguy · January 2006

Just wondering.... This is a question for 'isellhondas'. When will the "fit" hit the showrooms?

rroyce10 · January 2006

.. **i just went and took a look at that housing prices article, Terry. Wow! we could have a whole discussion on this ... too bad its not about cars ...**

Scary, ain't it .......? .. I've thought this real estate boom was going to start slipping away about a year ago - and it's started .. very slowly, but surely ...

The same comparison can be used with cars and trucks .. SUV's are a good example .. 10/12 years ago, nobody "really" thought that everyone (literally) was going to be buying one .. nowadays you have 5 foot tall soccer Moms and school teachers, you have professors, models, garbage collectors, many older folks and you have people that drive to work 6 miles day and never see anything even close to SUV 4WD territory - but they love the vehicle.

All these editors ever write about is "it's gas gas gas" ... yes, cost of fuel has something to do with it ... but what they miss is, most of these folks are on their 2nd or even their third SUV in 10 short years ...

See, everything runs in circles in the market and people like change, and in todays world they want it even sooner ... Town Cars have been popular for 20 years, thats a long run on a vehicle that basically hasn't changed that much except for some sheet metal and some high tech do-dads .l.o.l... the car market is like water, it will seek it's own level .. TC's are worth what they're worth and there seems to be a market that enjoys them .. the average age on used ones is 41 years of age - go figure.

What will change the real estate market will be the cost of money ...

Terry :shades:

zodiac2004 · January 2006

Terry, pretty please - can you answer my question below...

Do any of you have access to the info about the Manheim auctions at Milton (Ontario).

I'm very intersted to know how the 94-99 Integra 2dr 5-sp cars are doing

qbrozen · January 2006

could you narrow it down more for him?
i mean, that's 6 model years at, what? 3 models per year? (gs, gsr, and ??)
just seems to me you are going to get a VERY wide range in the answer (ie, $500-$5,000)

edit: i just looked up a random year for the heck of it. In 1998, there were 5 trims for the integra coupe!

zodiac2004 · January 2006

I just wanted a sampling - the Milton auctions aren't as big as some of the ones in the US.

OK, may I can narrow it a little bit - I only want RS, LS and GS trims - no GS-R or Type Rs.

dino001 · January 2006

I think it peaked around Excursion. Anybody with any sense of taste could see how ridicoulus it was. Of course, people kept buying, but fewer than projected. Surprisingly GM did not match it, except for low volume bigger Escalade came close (there was also Hummer, but it probably another subject). "Crossover" became suddenly a hot word, everybody wanted to have one they could call it. Gas probably sped up the shift.

Consumers do not behave rationally, not all anyway. I never understood people buying $30K+ car and crying about premium gas (do I really have to put premium into my high compression turbo DOHC?). Same with gas mileage. In panic they ditch 2-year-old Explorer with negative equity only to buy, say Escape or Freestyle. Not much of savings, but when add all fees, new taxes and of course depreciation, not a deal at all. After three months they are unhappy with acceleration or space and start talking about diesel or worse - hybrid. Their local friendly Toyota dealer adds "market adjustment & participation fee" among with three boat payments to the nice sticker of this shiny Prius (don't forget nice Toyo package for $699

).

After another three months they discover that promised 60 mpg becomes 45, but well, they at least contributed to reduction of emissions. About those batteries in 8 years? Oh, who cares - we will get some third world country take them for storage, won't we?

bigdveedubgirl · January 2006

Yep, you can impress the ladies with the suit and watch, you can buy them $15 martinis, you can convince them to come home with you in your Escalade running on dubs... (insert needle scratching the record sound here)...but home is a room in your parent's basement!!

Oh my Gawd! You hit the nail on the head. I have these young people (22-27) who make less than me (i.e 30k millionaires) and they are looking for Audi"in the 600-700" a month range, toting the Prada gear. But when it comes to credit app time, they live in either the WORST nieghborhood, or they have 20 roomates. And then have a hissy fit when I explain "debt to income ratio".......

I am a young 30 year old, and I must admit I spend money on stupid stuff sometimes, but I pay cash for it, and For the life of me, I can not understand the concept of instant gratification (I want it now and I dont want have to work for it)

policelady · January 2006

Hello,
I am a recent lease customer with a Cadillac 2005 CTS. I had 9000.00 dollars of negative equity and was unable to buy a vehicle like I have been doing for the past 15 years per the Cadillac dealership. The salesman indicated that dealers have been giving me a raw deal which is why I had so much negative equity. Are they giving me a raw deal also or did this dealer do me a favor by leasing me a caddy?

policelady · January 2006

Since I leased my Caddy 2005 CTS, I have been worried about the wear and tear expense I will have when I turn my vehicle back in. Is there any way I can keep this cost down or does it make a difference anyway?

They gave me a chart to go by but I am pretty sure after 3 years, this will not make any difference. They have to get money out of you somehow. I am just looking for an honest answer from a former car dealer. :surprise: :confuse:

bigdveedubgirl · January 2006

It depends on many variables. How many miles do you drive? What is your trade cycle.

What My assumption is that you have been doing 60 month purchases, putting little to nothing down, and trading out within the first 2 years or so. Am I right so far?

What GM can do, because they have rebates and incentives and they can SHOW more value for your trade that its actual value,(called "over allowing") and still give you a discount and on paper it looks like a good deal. But you can only do what you have been doing for so long to where the equity can not be hid again.

What it seems as though what they did, (as what I would reconmend) as rolled the equity to a lease, and since you leased and 05, there is alot of incentives on the car to absorb your negative equity. Now the only way to get out from under is STAY IN THAT LEASE UNTIL THE TERM IS UP. And you can walk away, with no more negative equity and you have a clean slate. How long is your lease for?

robr2 · January 2006

Oh my Gawd! You hit the nail on the head. I have these young people (22-27) who make less than me (i.e 30k millionaires) and they are looking for Audi"in the 600-700" a month range, toting the Prada gear. But when it comes to credit app time, they live in either the WORST nieghborhood, or they have 20 roomates. And then have a hissy fit when I explain "debt to income ratio".......

There was an article I read linked through another site regarding the gold collar generation. Best one was the tale of a 24 YO makeup artist who showed off a canvas - yes canvas - Christion Dior bracelet that cost $180. It made him happy so he bought it. Now he's trying to put $25 a week aside so he can move out of his parent's house. $25 a week - he'll be 75 by the time he can move out.

Here it is:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/living/2002479345_goldcollar08.html

pocono35 · January 2006

I am just curious, since i have read hundreds and hundreds of comments in various forums, how much manufacturers pay Edmunds to inflate the invoice price. The invoice prices here are not even close to what 'real world' numbers are that people pay when really haggling. In fact, i have seen invoices say on a Honda Pilot EX-L with RES listed at 31600 and seen many people pay $2000 less. C'mon, if the invoice, even with holdback, was 31600, noone would get a deal for 29,600 unless the invoice is actually less. Figure it out, people!

policelady · January 2006

My lease is for 48 months. I am paying a note of 625.00 a month and was paying 535.00 for the Chevy I traded in. You are correct, I would trade in every 2 to 3yrs and would put some money down sometimes and sometimes I would not. I guess I was so happy to get new car when it appeared as if the warranty was running out, that I did not think about what I was doing to myself. Now the only thing I worry about is what wear and tear cost I will have to pay when the lease agreement is up. :confuse:

policelady · January 2006

I would like to reduce my car payment. I want to know if any one has done this and how do you go about it. I am leasing a Cadillac 2005 CTS and the payment would fit into my budget better if it was about 50.00 dollars less. Am I able to do this, or am I stuck with the same payment forever?

policelady · January 2006

Without mentioning names, telephone numbers and addresses, I wanted to know if I could post a request for information from others on the site about Shirey Cadillac in Illinois. I just want to know what others experience was like when buying/leasing from them. Is this allowed?

im_brentwood · January 2006

Veedub,

Wait till you run a Lambo store. We get people who literally will sell their soul to buy these things.

I mean, people who barely make $100k a year looking at $150k used cars, people who saved up $30-40k down payments (One of whom I have a feeling took a 2nd mortgage for the $$) so they can afford payments over 144 months.

But to each his own I suppose.. I'd rather not have a car own me.

mark156 · January 2006

Policelady, I don't think your expenses at "lease end" will be all that bad if take care of the car. As long as you stay within your mileage limits and have the car serviced regularly, you should do fine.

The only problem with leasing a car so long, you will have to put money into a car that you do not own. You will have to purchase new tires and brakes (assuming your mileage allowance is 12K-15K a year). The lease allows minor door dings, etc. You might have to replace the windshield if you get too many chips in it.

I agree with bigdveedubgirl, try to stay with the Cadillac lease until it ends.

I wish I could think of a way to lower your payment. Maybe a car dealer will have a good suggestion for ya!

Good luck, Mark

volvomax · January 2006

Another wild conspiracy theory.

The car companies pay $0 to edmunds to do anything.
The invoice pricing on edmunds, cars.com, consumer reports etc is, for the most part accurate.
Yes, they leave out the advertising fees,and whenever there is a price increase they don't always have the info quickly.

BUT, in the case of the Honda, there is such a thing as incentives and rebates. These monies have nothing to do with the invoice price. It is very possible to pay below invoice for the right car. Edmunds lists these monies so all you have to do is a little research to find them.
It is easier than cooking up a conspiracy theory.

Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles