Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

rivertown · April 2003

"To eliminate a dealer because a salesperson did or did not come along for the ride strikes me as silly, even immature."
I agree.

Some buyers want 'em, others don't. Personally, I don't care about this issue. Keep the hooey and the up-selling to a minimum, and I'll be happy.

"Some folks'll gag at a gnat and swallow a skunk."

tboner · April 2003

"Some folks'll gag at a gnat and swallow a skunk."

So you have a teenage daughter as well, huh?

Ok back to the topic.

TB
Considerate Bank Customer/Inconsiderate Private Car Seller/Considerate Buyer/Too Many Labels

rivertown · April 2003

LOL!

isellhondas · April 2003

You have to know that "the internet" does not sell cars, salespeople do this.

If that store happens to have an Internet Department, the person you will be dealing with is simply a commissioned salesperson no matter what his title is.

You might want to go back and ask that Saab salesperson if they have any special programs through the internet or other membership programs.

butchbr73 · April 2003

ok, I have to ask this studid question... what is the deal with "internet sales"? do I really get a better deal? you've got the same cost structure (ie- car costs the same as if I walked in off the street), you still seem to have a sales person.... I am thinking its a "gimmick" to get you in the door? granted, its a great way to advertise the vehicles for sale, but can you really give me a better deal to buy over the internet? I'm thinking not since I still have to deal with the salesman, etc.... or is his cut drastically less on internet sales?

Leads to another question I have been curious about, are commission generally flat per car, based on price of car, or based upon the amount of profit the dealership is making? Or a combination of all the above? I realize this can be different at different dealerships, but in a general sense with respect to the industry.

thanks.
Brent

bigorange30 · April 2003

I have wondered that myself. Is there some sort of fee that the Internet site pays to the dealer (~$200/sale or so) to lower their price? I can see how the site would have that kind of money out of their advertising revenues.

zueslewis · April 2003

simply saves people from spending hours shopping for cars. I you have a fairly resonavble idea of what you want, it's a good way to go. If you're undecided on a vehicle, are way buried in your trade or have credit issues, you need to go the regular route.

Commissions - most stores pay on net profit after the sale. Some have flat pay systems, like Saturn.

bretfraz · April 2003

Instead of dealing with a salesperson face-to-face you deal with them computer-to-computer. Its a good method for those who are not "people persons".

bigorange30 · April 2003

That doesn't explain why you get a lower price from the internet. I have seen it and believe it. I just don't understand why it is.

mackabee · April 2003

Going the internet way is to avoid the "back and forth" that so many customers detest. Like someone posted earlier if you know what you want, color, options, etc.. and you want to avoid the "root canal" job at the dealership then the way to go is thru the net. Some people just use it as a way to price shop other dealers. In my experience the internet buyer is someone who leads a busy life, has little or no time to go from dealer to dealer to shop for a car and wants to get it over with quick. Hey! A lot of us would fit the profile!
\ : )
Mackabee

rivertown · April 2003

Somewhere (earlier in this thread?) someone (Mack?) posted that the netguy's pay plan was different from the floorguy's. Something like higher base, lower commission per deal, and a volume quota.

Though I don't think it was necessarily put this way, it made sense to me that net guy's incentives were more about volume while the floorguy's incentives were more about per deal profit.

isellhondas · April 2003

The vast majority of "internet buyers" who claim they only want a hassel free, no haggle price, STILL want to grind.

Some act privledged just because they came through the internet like they are in a "special class" or something.

I treat all of my customers exactly the same. And that is the way I would want to be treated myself.

rivertown · April 2003

About 1/2 - 1/3 the time, a net quote is 'pre-ground', LOL. Otherwise, there's still grinding to do.

If you get enough quotes and read quote request replies carefully it's easy enough to tell which is which. Some quotes even imply clearly that it's a no haggle price; when that's the case, I think there's no point in grinding even if the price is ridiculously high.

butchbr73 · April 2003

i agree, it may save from grinding and dealing back and forth... but why not have the car on the lot marked the same way? Its like some sort of special privavledge (ie-price) b/c I looked at it on the internet. I don't get it. I don't see how it enables the dealer to sell the car to me cheaper than if I walked in off the street.... The asking price should be the same price? whether its on the internet or not? I'm still going to try and negotiate from the internet price. If thats the rock bottom price, why don't you just put it on the car in the first place and save everyone from grief?

Yes, its a great way to go if you know what you want. I wish every dealer had their inventory on the internet so I wouldn't have to waste my time and yours driving from place to place looking for that car....

chorton · April 2003

most dealers do have their inventory in the internet. try the dealers title then add the .com

isellhondas · April 2003

Because for a high volume dealer it's too much/impossible of a chore to keep it up to date.

Old fashioned idea that works?

Pick up the phone.

tk865 · April 2003

Some net "managers" are comissioned salesfolk, others are managers of a team that sells via the net. In my case, I'm a manager paid purely on volume. Can a seasoned "grinder" get the same deal on the floor? Yeah, but it will take some arm wrestling. Net short-cuts the process for many buyers, getting to (or very close to) the "rock bottom" price very quickly. A sincere offer over the net is not likely to be "bumped" for profit. If it works, it's accepted, if not, the buyer is told what DOES work. Often making an offer on the floor just results in the Fiduciary Shuffle. (I'd like to see a "Chicago" type musical based on car sales.... Thinking of the courtroom.....)

As for the split comission issue, what usually happens is either the 2 salespeople come to an agreement to take person A off, or if salesman A raises a fuss, the papaerwork is all done in salesperson B's name, and A is added after the sale. In 99% of the cases I've seen, the unwanted salesman will bow out gracefully. Some dealers may not allow this though, so I guess it varies.

mackabee · April 2003

I have a heck of a time keeping up the inventory updated on our website, not so much with new cars as with used. For some reason as soon as a new car is reported sold (RDR) it disappears from our website. With used cars it's a different story, the car may have been delivered but the deal has not been bought yet or hasn't been booked and the car will still show on our website. Same with the cars we list on autotrader.com these I have to go in every morning and manually delete them.
Isell, I agree with you. Some internet buyers coming in thinking they are special like blue blood or something. It used to bug the hell out of me when I was working the floor and had to up them. Now I feel for the guys on the floor. They usually end up with the deal anyway when they bring them to my office unless I have already set them up with a salesperson prior to them coming in. As an incentive to the new people I told them to bone up on their product knowledge and when they get up to speed they would be getting some of the net leads. I have been testing them on Saturday morning sales meetings. It's pretty sad when only a handful knew the V6 Camry received an upgrade on the engine in mid-January and this included some of the "old pros"!
What I do with customers is tell them right up front the price is a "no-haggle" price quote. Works for 90 percent of the customers, the other 10 percent I can usually "smoke out" and leave a couple of hundred bucks to play with just in case. We really don't get into grinding marathons with them. It's more about customer service, quick response to their e-mails, and answering their questions, before they ever step into the dealership.
: )
Mackabee

joatmon · April 2003

Great posts!

I wish I could buy a car from each of you. This sounds like how I'd like to buy my cars: 1. Figure out what I want. 2. Get price from TK and/or Mack. 3. Write check. 4. Take check to TK and/or Mack and pick up car. 5. Drive home while smiling.

Priceless.

lmp180psu · April 2003

LOL!! I would pay to see that! I could just see the buyer offering a price and the salesperson just laughs, then as the buyer goes to leave, the S.P. asks them to stay to try to work out a deal ( this would occur a few times). Then in comes the "sleazy" F&I guy, doing a song and dance about undercoating, extended warranties, and VIN etching, Oh My! Finally the deal gets done, and the buyer breaks down from exhaustion/happiness that the ordeal is finally over.

dkrahl · April 2003

With a few exceptions every salesman that I have run into had some degree of sleaze. When we bought our last car I got a quote from off the internet and every other car dealer that would answer my e-mails. I then went to the dealer that we test drove cars at to give them the best shot. When I told them about the internet quote their response was "You don't buy cars over the internet". I said "fine... I will go to another dealer." They said "Let me see the quote" and I purchased the car for the internet price.

We still got the song and dance from the finance person about overpriced aftermarket goodies, but we managed to resist. Ended up buying the floor mats on E-Bay for a fraction of the price.

I have had salesmen lie to my face in the past. Unfortunately, I only buy cars every 5 years or so and it is difficult for me to tell the honest ones from the liars until the deal is done. The internet is a tool that I can use to make sure that I am getting a fair deal.

isellhondas · April 2003

That would work fine. I agree!

But, here's how it usually works...

1. Get price from TK or Mackabee
2. Smile
3. Go shop that price
4. Find another dealer willing to beat it by
100.00
5. Smile again
6. Continue to shop that new number
7. Get frustrated, get in the car and head to the
dealer who "saved" you 100.00.
8. Write check, drive home smiling.

isellhondas · April 2003

Sleaze runs in both directions.

If you only knew the lies we hear on a daily basis.

jeffmust2 · April 2003

...the buyers that took your house keys and refused to give them back until you discounted their new Accord by the 2% holdback...I love that one!

chorton · April 2003

this whole business would be in a better space. Too bad things arent "perfect". I just wish i could have got in the business when there was fair profit to be made. Now it's all about "beating" the "sleazy lying cheating stealing" car salesmen. I just wish customers knew the daily crap we put up with from all the people we see. When I say "everyone were honest" I mean the dealers and the buyers. But then again that would be in a perfect world...before Eve ate that STUPID fruit.

mark156 · April 2003

I noticed the other day at the "Daewoo" dealer that they were having a 40% off list price sale. Since Daewoos are being discontinued/not imported, what will happen to the happy buyers? Will they have trouble getting parts, etc.?

I saw a new Daewoo Nubria wagon in the parking lot at lunch today. The list was still on the window and showed $15,500... and it appeared completely loaded with power windows, locks, air, etc. Not bad if you paid $9,300 for it.

What do you guys think? Mark

m5power · April 2003

I still disagree with you that it's none of my business who gets the commission on a car sale. I'm not sure if others agree, but I am glad to spend a little more money at a dealership that has good salespeople and good customer service. And I have always felt that people should be rewarded (ie compensated) for good work, and penalized for a poor job. So I'll be darned if some irritating shmoe gets ANY commission if I happen to buy a car at that dealership, just because he "upped" me. But unfortunately, based on experience, somewhere less than half of car salespeople are pleasant to deal with- even way before you get to the negiotating process. Just the simple greeting, to the test drive, to the discussion of options, availability, etc -> can be made very difficult. So IMHO, if I meet a very pleasant, informed, and honest salesperson, I would greatly prefer he receive the entire commission!

imidazol97 · April 2003

" Isell - Tell Us The One About ...the buyers that took your house keys and refused to give them back until you discounted their new Accord by the 2% holdback...I love that one! "

I'd like to hear that kind of story. I thought it was the salesmen who trap the customer by taking their keys and driver's license for the test drive of their tradein and the ID for financing and won't give them back.

dbgindy · April 2003

I've really enjoyed reading the posts on this board. As a recent buyer of a new SUV I started communicating with the "internet sales manager" via email followed it up with a call. Went to dealership that afternoon got a price on the SUV and my trade that worked for both of us and by the time we were finishing up based on the sale men's comments and the hour the F & I guy didn't even try to sell me add on's I was so pleased with the transaction I followed up with an email to the owner of the dealership telling him how pleased I was.
After reading these posts posts I guess I should consider myself lucky. :-)
Seriously If people are forearmed with knowledge and realize the dealership has to make a profit to everyone would be happier.
Last comment. I really appreciate the down to earth comments by the vast majority of salesman & shoppers on this board. If all transactions were done as talked about on this board car salesman's rep's would skyrocket.

mackabee · April 2003

What I don't understand is why would you go back to the same store if the first salesperson that "upped" you was a total schmoe. I'm sure there's more than one dealership for the car you were looking for. When I go to any establishment and receive bad service I make it a point to take my business elsewhere. A few months ago, I went to TB for some pseudo Mexican food. Drove up to the window to pay for my order and one of the girls made an uncalled for remark. I got out of my car talked to the manager, got my food and have never gone back.
: )
Mackabee

m5power · April 2003

You're right, I shouldn't go back, but I would always "prefer" to buy a car from the local dealership, no matter the brand. I would prefer not to drive 20 miles, etc to purchase a car and not get free manufacturer loaner vehicles when I bring the car to the local shop for service because i didn't buy it there. That's probably why dealers have that policy in place so that potential buyers would buy from their local dealer. That's usually why I go back to the closest dealer even if the initial experience is subpar. Unfortunately, we've moved around a bit so we haven't been able to establish a good relationship with any single salesperson at a single dealership. Ideally, it would be great to keep buying from the same (nice) guy at the same dealer over years-

rivertown · April 2003

"1. Get price from TK or Mackabee
2. Smile
3. Go shop that price
4. Find another dealer willing to beat it by
100.00
5. Smile again
6. Continue to shop that new number
7. Get frustrated, get in the car and head to the
dealer who "saved" you 100.00.
8. Write check, drive home smiling. "

There's something wrong with that? It's the same free market that sets ADM's. 'Tain't a free market w/o competition. LOL, some markets more free than others?

At the practical level, I see the prob. A couple of fixes are available to our TK-Mack's - even though they're not complaining about the prob, LOL.
1) Lighten up the 'no haggle' tone. A 'shopper' would more likely make a counter-offer.
2) Quote a price at which you'd be just as happy to lose the sale, i.e. a price below which you (or anyone else) can't sell without getting hurt. You get the sale or your competition gets hurt - win-win.

From the salesguy's POV, it's a question of which he'd rather risk - the sale or the last $50 - $100.

rivertown · April 2003

If you find the national website of the car maker you're interested in, you'll find a dealer locator button. That'll get you the dealers close to a given zip code or city, along with links to those dealers that have sites. Some don't have sites and obviously don't wanna do business over the net.

rivertown · April 2003

I still disagree with you, too. I think we understand each other's position well enough to know we just don't agree. How about we drop it, unless you're gonna change your mind? Nothing wrong with disagreeing (especially when I'm right, LOL. Just kidding.)

Seriously, you've got enough recourse. Walk, like Mack's saying. Or get a new salesguy, like Hondaguy was saying.

JPham · April 2003

Mack, but you got your burrito before you left the restaurant, right?

LOL!

JP

joatmon · April 2003

How would you feel if you found out that Hans, the axe murderer, actually worked on your car, and was paid for his efforts?

I wouldn't go there. I'd just buy a car and let the dealer worry about their pay structure. If the experience were that terrible, I'd just go to another dealer.

But, YMMV.

kyfdx · April 2003

I wouldn't let some goofy teenager at TB make me drive five miles farther for my food. I'd just be satisfied I reported her to her manager. If you stop eating there, those bozos don't care.. You'll just be inconvenienced.

regards,
kyfdx

mackabee · April 2003

After I talked to the manager she offered me the food for free! I said no thanks. I had a bad taste in my mouth by then. So I headed over to my favorite Authentic Mex food restaurant "El Azteca" which I visit at least once a week. The owner is a regular customer of mine, and I get treated like family.
: )
Mackabee

kyfdx · April 2003

well...thats another story, then! LOL

now, I'm hungry...

kyfdx

tboner · April 2003

on the hungry.

But then I'm often hungry.

TB
Anybody seen those cross drilled hamburgers at White Castle?

kyfdx · April 2003

You can get them with jalapeno cheese now.

kyfdx

hondaguy9 · April 2003

First, any service you recieve in the service dept (loaner cars, etc..) has nothing to do with where you bought the car. If your dealer is refusing to give you full service because you didn't buy it there, well then that's another issue. Second, AGAIN, if you have a salesman you didn't like at all or did something wrong or whatever, mention it to the G.M. It will NOT go unnoticed. He will address it directly and handle the problem internally. In most cases if he/she did that bad by you, the commission will be taken away by him anyway. I hate going to Mcdonalds and not being able to understand the non-english speaking person at the counter, but I don't say "I hate this person, don't pay him/her today". I am sure, In fact, positive in your work somewhere in your life, someone didn't rub well with you and didn't want you to get paid for your services,,,,maybe not, I have noticed a lot of perfect people in here.

rivertown · April 2003

I'm glad somebody finally noticed!

BTW, how would you suggest the customer handle it if he has a prob getting service where he didn't buy.

I've never had that prob; in fact, the reverse has been the rule without exception. But, there's been some discussion about the possibility of a dealer's giving a 'didn't buy here' customer short shrift in the service deptartment.

hondaguy9 · April 2003

simple, If you go to your local dealer and you get anything refused or know that you are getting the shaft because you didn't buy the car there I would just call customer service for that manu. I am not sure why a) you would want to countinue to do business there and give them money b) they won't help you anyway, they make more money in the service dept anyway...

rivertown · April 2003

Good points! I was thinking about a situation where there's one dealer in town and the driver's in a tight for dealer service. Probably a low probability situation.

hondaguy9 · April 2003

Even you live in the middle of the desert and there is one dealer within 500 miles. If they offer loaner cars for service or any other certain customer service but don't offer it for customers that didn't buy their car there, they can be reported with the manuf.

grandtotal · April 2003

Sure, report them to the manufacturer, that's going to improve an already poor relationship.

hondaguy9 · April 2003

the service you deserve or do want to complain about not getting it here.....You won't get poor service for calling anyone, trust me. We have had people over the years that may call for one reason or another and they are now flagged in the computer not to give them a hard time, but to kiss their you know what because we know they will call again if not....think about it..

rivertown · April 2003

Makes sense to me, all of it.

I've switched before, due to poor service, and been treated great at the new place.

I can see where a dealer would be responsive to the manufacturer and also see the wisdom in repairing a damaged relationship.

I can also see where a dealer might take the low road.

Personally, I won't do business where I'm not wanted unless I'm in a tight. Money's green, right? Plus, I don't buy if there's not a big dealer network.

perna · April 2003

Two months ago, I bought a leftover 03 Maxima from the Nissan dealer on the other side of town. I would have gladly bought from the dealer close to me, but he didn't have the car in stock I wanted. Instead of bothering with a DX, I just bought from the dealer that had the car I wanted.

My question is this: how can a dealer tell if I bought the car from their competition? I plan on bringing the car to the close dealer for all service, both paid/routine and warranty. I'm going to remove the license plate bracket bearing the other dealer's name before I bring it in... Additionally, the car I did buy was itself a DX from an out-of-state dealer, so if the close/servicing dealer looked it up on the computer would it show as having been sold by out-of-state dealer, or their competition?

Maybe it is just a wives' tale that I won't get the same grade of service since I didn't actually buy there, but it would be nice to know.

Thanks in advance for any help!

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