Reports across Detroit indicate that Ford will suspend production of the Thunderbird two-seat roadster in the middle of the decade, and inside sources confirm the move to TheCarConnection while adding that a new T-Bird with echoes of styling from the 1961 model could reappear in the company's lineup by mid-decade. TCC's source says Ford made some "big mistakes" with the T-Bird, especially over-building during an extended 2002 model year. As a result, dealers still have a bunch of '02s they are having trouble moving, and the incentives they're offering are cutting into their sales of 2003 models. The Thunderbird had been intended as a limited run vehicle, but the current sales situation isn't helping prolong its shelf life. Right now, work is ongoing on an unapproved project that would resurrect some of the themes of the 1961 Thunderbird, but for now, the current T-Bird is set to stop flying in either the 2005 or 2006 model year. Sales of the model in 2003 are off more than 22 percent from last year."
There were definitely some problems with Ford's introduction of the T-bird. However, the news that Ford intends to end the current model in mid-decade ranks up there with "Sun will Set Tonight" as a headline. If it ends in 2005 it will have been available for 4 model years. That doesn't sound like an unreasonable amount of production time these days. I'm not going to take the time to check but I'd be very surprised if there weren't many cars that have had a 4 year production cycle.
Don't forget that the T-bird is mostly built from the Ford parts bin. So the developments cost were actually rather reasonable compared to a car started from scratch...
It's a shame the car will be going away, even if temporary. I drove one for a demo last summer and was thrilled with the car.
How come my local Lexus dealer has about 50 used Lexuses with half factory certified but the other half are not. Why aren't all of his Used Lexuses certified Any thoughts or opinions are appreciated.
Have to be within a certain age and mileage range for the dealer to label them CPOs. Also, since the CPO tag with extended warranty means the dealer will ask more $$ for them, it's probably a good marketing tool to have some that are non-CPO on the same lot at a cheaper price to attract buyers with less bucks - and also as a bargaining tool.
"Well, Mr. & Mrs. Prospect, that used silver 2000 RX300 with the CPO warranty goes for $25000 - but that white one over there, same age and mileage, goes for $23500, $1500 less because it's original warranty is about to expire. If I can talk to my sales manager...and get you the CPO one for the same lower price...do we have a deal tonight?"
When I bought a CPO LS400 a few years ago, the talk was that it costs the dealer only a few hundred to put that label on the used cars - especially if they do a lousy job on the "128-point" inspection routine and fixing any problems that crop up. My Lexus did have a few problems - but they were taken care of post-sale, not pre-sale.
Since the program is new the jury is still out....but the fine print allows the dealer to pull credit reports and submit the credit application to see if the buyer is qualified and the test driver must have full coverage insurance.
This will eliminate alot of the problems a program like this could cause.
will give you an overnight test drive regardless of a special TV commercial or not. IMHO, this is like a screamer ad, which will bring the uninformed through the door, en masse, and the salespeople will have to filter them out.
"I flip burgers at Wendys, I'd like to test drive that new H2"
When I heard the GM spots on the radio (you are then actually encouraged to pay attention and not just drool over the hardware) they mention age, license, insurance, and approved credit as qualifications to test drive the vehicle overnight.
So I imagine if you want to drive it overnight, they are going to run a credit check.
This ought to minimize the BK kids driving H2's on a Friday night.
Came in the mail. They want me of all people to do a 24 hour test drive!
Maybe they are hoping the test drivers will take "ownership" of the car during that time. Their family, friends and neighbors will see it and figure they bought it.
It'll be interesting to see if this experience works. I just see the downsides. The tremendous mailing expense for one thing. Oh, let's go through Mc Donald's and get chocolate shakes!
Oops...oh well, they can clean it up...
I think this will attract a lot of flakes who just want a nice new car to go out on the town with!
I just can't believe they'd allow a 24-hour test drive. I know there are tons of people like me out there who have a long commute to work each day. Can you imagine all of these new vehicles with triple digits on the odometer? Try selling that and not giving a huge discount.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
1) there has to be a car deal in the works for this to even happen - good credit, job, not $10K upside down in the trade, etc.
2) once you get this new GM product home and show all your family and friends, coworkers, etc., IF you bring it back, you KNOW what everyone would say....YOU COULDN'T AFFORD IT.
Whether you could or not, that's human nature for people to think that way. The overnight test drive is the oldest trick in the book for that very reason. You CAN'T bring it back because everyone will think you're a bum and couldn't qualify.
Any help would be appreciated. I leased a new vehicle less than 30 days ago. I've already had to tow it back twice for two different reasons. After reading the lemon law, It doesn't quite apply to me. My question is, Is there a certain amount of time that you have to simply get out of your contract if you are unsatisfied? Please help.
...... I have been doing this for almost 10 years (I wonder if I can get some $$ from GM for my idea.? ) ..
"Over Nighters" have worked for me for a long time .. the neighbor picks up the customer from the service dept, you get some folks from service that are just strolling around waiting for their vehicle, you get some folks that aren't sure and want to "think" about it - so let them think about while they are DRIVING it, not sure if they would like an SUV or a 4dr sedan - can't tell by reading Womens Quarteley, so let em' Drive it for a night .. of course (depending on the situation) I will take a credit report, licenses copy and ins .. in almost 10 years, 3 out of every 10 bought, that's not a bad batting average .. we will see how all the "cross shopping" effects this one.
the overnight test drive would have worked great for landru's home depot guy..just like jpham mentioned. So is it not considered inconsiderate any longer to use the dealerships brand new truck to haul plywood? "Well you wanted me to give it a true test drive, right?" LOL
I posted a year or so ago about how the last 3/4 cars I bought were all with overnight test drives - offered by the dealer and it made the difference in buying. Many of the sales folks here thought I was silly - "what take so long", "it takes a 30 min drive to know if you want it" . . .
I can't imagine (personally) buying without it . . .
Specs of last few cars: Mercedes ML 320 - bought Saab 9-5 wagon - bought Used MB E320 - bought MB C 240/320 - did not buy (see above purchase) Saab 9-5 sedan - didn't buy (see above purchase)
So, in each case, the dealer got a sale of a comparable model, etc. . . with no buyers remorse.
In each case the dealer did not run a credit check but did take a copy of license and insurance.
Warning: I think I told another version of this story....
This does was not an overnight drive; rather, a longer drive. It was the end of 2001...my wife was 5 months pregnant, and we were shopping for a 'mommy mobile'. We where shopping early because (on paper) the preferred car was an Oddessey, which had a 1-2 month wait. The problem was, we could not test drive an oddy...we could look, and liked what we saw, but driving would have to wait for 'our car' to come in.
So, we continued to look. On a lark, we drove to the SAAB dealership to look at a 9-5 wagon. I did not think we could afford it, but it turned out it was only $500 more than the Oddy (Oddy had a big premium). so, we took the SAAB out for a drive...salesman said 'take as long as you want...take it out towards the mountains...' We drove it for about two hours. We had some concerns about the size and reliability, but the drive of the car one us over.
Funny thing is, if we could have driven an Oddessey, we probably would have never looked at the SAAB.
After 6 months, the SAAB was T-boned by a caddy running a light at 60 MPH. No one was injured. Car was totalled. Valuation from the ins co. was favorable (made a nice profit). But, I replaced the car with a Minivan (I did not appreaciate how much space a baby takes up). In that case, I needed the van right away, and could not wait for the Oddessey...so I have a Sienna.
I think I have asked this before and did not get an exact answer, so I will try again.
Is there a website that lists car deprciation in percentage and is easy to compare them? Or at least shows trends, like Lexus depreciates 25% in 5 years vs 65% for Ford, etc. TCO on edmunds is a help but it is hard to compare all brands and makes at one time.
Hey masspector. The only web site that I am aware of that shows the sort of depreciation trends that you are interested in is Automotive Lease Guide's (ALG) site. ALG is sort of the industry standard for residual values. Many banks base their residuals on ALG's numbers, though many captive finance companies publish their own slightly different residuals. Unfortunately, even though at one time its information was available on the Web for free, I believe that one has to pay to see ALG's residual values now.
This is kind of an indirect way to get the residual percentages, but here goes.
Go to leasecompare.com. Put in your model and MSRP, and it will give you residual values along with the monthly lease terms. You can divide the residual by the MSRP you entered to get the residual percentage they are working with. I believe these numbers come from ALG.
CARMAN: Not trying to promote this website, so delete this message, if inappropriate.
Ive been scrounging to find a low mileage car, and have not found anything locally that was a good fit. Searching on the Net, I found a 02 Saturn SL with AC, CD 5 speed and 10K miles on, priced at 7495 - which is a fantastic price, its not a fantastic car but it will suit my needs.
Carfax is clean, it was registered to a private owner. The salesman I talked to on the phone was very freindly, said he'd had the car 3 weeeks, there wasn't much interest in the car and he had just dropped the price.
Here's the catch - the dealer is a 2.5 hour drive away. The salesman said he could set up financing, they work with my bank, he will bring the car down, said I can drive it and if I like it and want it, sign for it right there. Or I can come pick it up and save $100.
Im familiar enough with Saturns, Ive tested several recently, including a similar 01, so I dont need to test drive it for that reason. However it seems very weird to buy a car this way. But I think I'm going to do it. Any thing I should look out for in this deal?
for the info guys. I had tried ALG, but like you said the info I wanted was not free. It is not too hard to find info for depreciation on individual cars like you are talking about. I was thinking more of a top ten list that said these vehicles have the lowest and /or worst depreciation and compared them. Edmunds TCO is a pretty good tool if you are only comparing a few cars. Just subtract each years depreciation amount from the original price and you have a fairly good idea what it might be worth in 5 years.
Interesting, but is it resale as a % of the original MSRP, or the TMV?
Here's why it's important to ask - Kias (at the bottom of the pile) sell for hefty discounts. So for a shopper, he's not really going to experience the depreciation from MSRP, but rather from what he actually paid.
Conversely, what if the BMW Z8 owners paid a $25,000 dealer markup? His depreciation is grossly underestimated.
Looking at residuals is smart, but you have to compare them to your best deal on the purchase price.
Here is a real-world example. I paid $19.2k for my Forester back in 1998. 5 years later, the TMV is $10,876 (KBB value is similar FWIW). That's just 43% actual depreciation in 5 years, better than any car on the list including the elusive BMW Z8 with no markup.
I had a dealer make the same kind of offer, only on a new car with a 200 mile drive and no $100 price differential. Very cool!
My concern was meeting in daylight so that I could look the car over well. If it were a used car, I'd want to meet at my mechanic's garage so he could look the car over well. Plan to help the driver/salesguy hook up with his transportation home.
Rob: maybe it's my zip code? I was able to beat TMV private party for our 626, and that wasn't a high-demand vehicle. It snowed a *lot* this past winter and so I doubt it would be hard to sell an AWD with good gas mileage.
kyfdx: interesting. I wonder if the Z8 took any markups into effect?
Actually, I think it's that limited edition run of automatics toward the end that had huge markups.
Of course zip code comes into play. As well as selling on your own vs. trade-in.
When somebody says "what my car is worth" I consider that to be wholesale value because, basically, that IS what its worth. What people pay for it is a whole different story.
I think either you lucked out with the 626 or your area really is deprived of such cars because I also tried to sell my 626 privately and I couldn't get a bite. Only guy who even talked to me about it showed me a printout of TMV and said that he wanted it below that number. I promptly told him to leave my property. lol.
anyhoo, I'd tell you what I got for the Forester, but you REALLY don't want to know. I know mine had more miles than yours, but it also had an automatic (yours is an L too, right?).
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I'm with you......how come these used car appraisal experts won't back up their appraisal with cash....Dealers will!! How come when a consumer does a self appraisal they assume that the website with the highest value is the only one that is correct? The rest are wrong. haha
I was thinking about starting a used car value website...put on very high and boarderline fictional numbers and I will have the most visitors to my website, overnight!!. Since no web site is willing to back up the numbers, they have every incentive to inflate the numbers to generate the most hits...with the most hits comes the ad revenue. sorta like letting the wolf watch the henhouse.
Comments
"FORD TO SUSPEND T-BIRD MID-DECADE
Reports across Detroit indicate that Ford will suspend production of the Thunderbird two-seat roadster in the middle of the decade, and inside sources confirm the move to TheCarConnection while adding that a new T-Bird with echoes of styling from the 1961 model could reappear in the company's lineup by mid-decade. TCC's source says Ford made some "big mistakes" with the T-Bird, especially over-building during an extended 2002 model year. As a result, dealers still have a bunch of '02s they are having trouble moving, and the incentives they're offering are cutting into their sales of 2003 models. The Thunderbird had been intended as a limited run vehicle, but the current sales situation isn't helping prolong its shelf life. Right now, work is ongoing on an unapproved project that would resurrect some of the themes of the 1961 Thunderbird, but for now, the current T-Bird is set to stop flying in either the 2005 or 2006 model year. Sales of the model in 2003 are off more than 22 percent from last year."
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/classifieds/automotive/5809455- .htm
For what it's worth.
It's a shame the car will be going away, even if temporary. I drove one for a demo last summer and was thrilled with the car.
Any thoughts or opinions are appreciated.
Dillydill
: )
Mackabee
"Well, Mr. & Mrs. Prospect, that used silver 2000 RX300 with the CPO warranty goes for $25000 - but that white one over there, same age and mileage, goes for $23500, $1500 less because it's original warranty is about to expire. If I can talk to my sales manager...and get you the CPO one for the same lower price...do we have a deal tonight?"
When I bought a CPO LS400 a few years ago, the talk was that it costs the dealer only a few hundred to put that label on the used cars - especially if they do a lousy job on the "128-point" inspection routine and fixing any problems that crop up. My Lexus did have a few problems - but they were taken care of post-sale, not pre-sale.
Is that a good idea or something that corporate will love and the dealers will hate?
This will eliminate alot of the problems a program like this could cause.
"I flip burgers at Wendys, I'd like to test drive that new H2"
I can see it now..
Ed
I suppose desperate companies resort to desperate measures.
But I could be wrong I suppose...
1. I'm not in the market and
2. GM sells nothing that remotely intrigues me (okay, maybe a 9-5 wagon).
-Jason
So I imagine if you want to drive it overnight, they are going to run a credit check.
This ought to minimize the BK kids driving H2's on a Friday night.
TB
Maybe they are hoping the test drivers will take "ownership" of the car during that time. Their family, friends and neighbors will see it and figure they bought it.
It'll be interesting to see if this experience works. I just see the downsides. The tremendous mailing expense for one thing. Oh, let's go through Mc Donald's and get chocolate shakes!
Oops...oh well, they can clean it up...
I think this will attract a lot of flakes who just want a nice new car to go out on the town with!
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
2) once you get this new GM product home and show all your family and friends, coworkers, etc., IF you bring it back, you KNOW what everyone would say....YOU COULDN'T AFFORD IT.
Whether you could or not, that's human nature for people to think that way. The overnight test drive is the oldest trick in the book for that very reason. You CAN'T bring it back because everyone will think you're a bum and couldn't qualify.
Contact your manufacturer's rep through your service manager, though, to try to resolve whatever mechanical problems you're having.
There is no sense in preaching to the converted. Far better to try and win over people who currently drive Ford, Honda, Toyota...
JP
"Over Nighters" have worked for me for a long time .. the neighbor picks up the customer from the service dept, you get some folks from service that are just strolling around waiting for their vehicle, you get some folks that aren't sure and want to "think" about it - so let them think about while they are DRIVING it, not sure if they would like an SUV or a 4dr sedan - can't tell by reading Womens Quarteley, so let em' Drive it for a night .. of course (depending on the situation) I will take a credit report, licenses copy and ins .. in almost 10 years, 3 out of every 10 bought, that's not a bad batting average .. we will see how all the "cross shopping" effects this one.
Terry.
I can't imagine (personally) buying without it . . .
Specs of last few cars:
Mercedes ML 320 - bought
Saab 9-5 wagon - bought
Used MB E320 - bought
MB C 240/320 - did not buy (see above purchase)
Saab 9-5 sedan - didn't buy (see above purchase)
So, in each case, the dealer got a sale of a comparable model, etc. . . with no buyers remorse.
In each case the dealer did not run a credit check but did take a copy of license and insurance.
Adam
Dillydill
This does was not an overnight drive; rather, a longer drive. It was the end of 2001...my wife was 5 months pregnant, and we were shopping for a 'mommy mobile'. We where shopping early because (on paper) the preferred car was an Oddessey, which had a 1-2 month wait. The problem was, we could not test drive an oddy...we could look, and liked what we saw, but driving would have to wait for 'our car' to come in.
So, we continued to look. On a lark, we drove to the SAAB dealership to look at a 9-5 wagon. I did not think we could afford it, but it turned out it was only $500 more than the Oddy (Oddy had a big premium). so, we took the SAAB out for a drive...salesman said 'take as long as you want...take it out towards the mountains...' We drove it for about two hours. We had some concerns about the size and reliability, but the drive of the car one us over.
Funny thing is, if we could have driven an Oddessey, we probably would have never looked at the SAAB.
Only 500.00 more? Hopefully the resale on that Saab won't be too painful down the line.
If you keep it a long long time it won't matter.
Is there a website that lists car deprciation in percentage and is easy to compare them? Or at least shows trends, like Lexus depreciates 25% in 5 years vs 65% for Ford, etc. TCO on edmunds is a help but it is hard to compare all brands and makes at one time.
Thanks for any help
Car_man
Host
Smart Shoppers / FWI Message Boards
Go to leasecompare.com. Put in your model and MSRP, and it will give you residual values along with the monthly lease terms. You can divide the residual by the MSRP you entered to get the residual percentage they are working with. I believe these numbers come from ALG.
CARMAN: Not trying to promote this website, so delete this message, if inappropriate.
regards,
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Carfax is clean, it was registered to a private owner. The salesman I talked to on the phone was very freindly, said he'd had the car 3 weeeks, there wasn't much interest in the car and he had just dropped the price.
Here's the catch - the dealer is a 2.5 hour drive away. The salesman said he could set up financing, they work with my bank, he will bring the car down, said I can drive it and if I like it and want it, sign for it right there. Or I can come pick it up and save $100.
Im familiar enough with Saturns, Ive tested several recently, including a similar 01, so I dont need to test drive it for that reason. However it seems very weird to buy a car this way. But I think I'm going to do it. Any thing I should look out for in this deal?
The only thing you risk, it seems, is time. Make the guy promise to fill your tank and buy you lunch if you don't like the car.
I made that promise several times and never had to pay.
and
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/top10/99270/article.html
Not sure how Edmunds computes it, though.
-Jason
Something like that would be great, but have all brands and makes listed.
Here's why it's important to ask - Kias (at the bottom of the pile) sell for hefty discounts. So for a shopper, he's not really going to experience the depreciation from MSRP, but rather from what he actually paid.
Conversely, what if the BMW Z8 owners paid a $25,000 dealer markup? His depreciation is grossly underestimated.
Looking at residuals is smart, but you have to compare them to your best deal on the purchase price.
Here is a real-world example. I paid $19.2k for my Forester back in 1998. 5 years later, the TMV is $10,876 (KBB value is similar FWIW). That's just 43% actual depreciation in 5 years, better than any car on the list including the elusive BMW Z8 with no markup.
See what I mean?
-juice
Good thing you like yours.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I only wish the people who publish some of these numbers would be willing to write checks for what they tell my customers their cars are worth!
But sometimes the numbers can be fairly accurate.
kyfdx
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
My concern was meeting in daylight so that I could look the car over well. If it were a used car, I'd want to meet at my mechanic's garage so he could look the car over well.
Plan to help the driver/salesguy hook up with his transportation home.
kyfdx: interesting. I wonder if the Z8 took any markups into effect?
Actually, I think it's that limited edition run of automatics toward the end that had huge markups.
-juice
When somebody says "what my car is worth" I consider that to be wholesale value because, basically, that IS what its worth. What people pay for it is a whole different story.
I think either you lucked out with the 626 or your area really is deprived of such cars because I also tried to sell my 626 privately and I couldn't get a bite. Only guy who even talked to me about it showed me a printout of TMV and said that he wanted it below that number. I promptly told him to leave my property. lol.
anyhoo, I'd tell you what I got for the Forester, but you REALLY don't want to know. I know mine had more miles than yours, but it also had an automatic (yours is an L too, right?).
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
How come when a consumer does a self appraisal they assume that the website with the highest value is the only one that is correct? The rest are wrong. haha
I was thinking about starting a used car value website...put on very high and boarderline fictional numbers and I will have the most visitors to my website, overnight!!. Since no web site is willing to back up the numbers, they have every incentive to inflate the numbers to generate the most hits...with the most hits comes the ad revenue. sorta like letting the wolf watch the henhouse.
Ed