Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

zueslewis · August 2003

we HAVE to stop being on the same plane of thinking, people will talk!

fintail · August 2003

A simple overview of interest rates would be something in itself. It's amazing what people will sign...

Exactly right. People (parents) can't teach what they don't know, themselves.

bigorange30 · August 2003

Your #5730 post is exactly the way I thought before I had children. I have learned since then that is not that simplistic.

I do still agree with most of what you said. The only idea you are missing is that every person is wired differently. Some strong willed children can be physically abused and still "wreak havoc in Wal-Mart". Also, even though I take your type of disciplinary position with my children, my wife does not. Mothers spend more time with the child and end up having more influence. If a father makes a rule, he better have backing by the mother or it is worthless. Now let the father take the child with permissive mother influence into Wal-Mart and see what happens.

You are living somewhat in a fantasyland IMHO although I like your ideas generally on the subject.

I have been teaching my kids financial resposibility by having them manage a small budget with their allowance. I teach them about interest, banking, investing, car buying negotiation. One statement that I share with them often and they are learning by experience is "You get what you pay for." This is especially important in the auto market today. There are alot of good products out there and the market is improving all the time. When you are spending $30K, you still want to get high quality. That seems like a lot of money to 90% of americans.

larryintn · August 2003

Another factor is that learning discipline isn't a single event, it is an extended process. Many of the fits that you see in public are from young children who are still in the process of learning acceptable behavior. Discipline must (eventually) prevent the fit as it's not going to stop one that's already started. Once the fit starts it's important not to give in to stop it quickly as that will just reinforce the bad behavior. The child must learn that the fit will not work.

mfletouva · August 2003

I'm looking at buying a Subaru Forester X Automatic in Cayenne Red. Its seems that there are very few 2003's left, mostly '04's, espcially in MA, where the driver of the car lives. I'm actually buying the car for someone else, and I live in Northern VA where they do seem to be a few '03's around. I'm trying to get a handle on exactly how much I'll save by getting an '03 vs an '04. There is a $750 cash to dealer program on an in interest rate program on the '03. I also have some sort of a coupon good for $500 off an '03, so that's $1250 The MSRP of the '03 I'm looking at iis $22212, invoice is $20288, so with the $1250 off its $19038. Any chance of going lower (or is my thinking too low already?) How desperate is the dealer going to be to get rid of the '03? The particular dealer I'm looking at has 48 Foresters in stock, about 35 of them are '04's...Any insights would be appreciated.

masspector · August 2003

You missed what I was saying. I was not talking about schools hording knowledge, they are actually one of the best places that knowledge is dispensed. I was trying to be delicate and not come off sounding too "communist" for this community here on edmunds. I had origianlly written "It is my belief that the wealthy keep it this way to keep the lower and middle classes dumb about finances".
I agree 100% that parents should teach personal finances to their kids too, but most kids are in school for a longer period of time than they are around their parents. i like larry's approach that it be integrated with regular math classes. And what landru said is true too. Many parents were never taught this so they do not know it either.

What i meant was that the ones that have the knowledge do not want to share it and will use such knowledge to try to control others. One example is the "church" during the middle ages. Almost all schools were run by the church and only a select group were allowed to learn to read and write. They in turn became part of the elite group that had this knowledge but instead of passing it all on to everyone, they continued in keeping it for themsleves because it gave them power.

Another example is car buying today. Before anyone knew about invoice prices, negotiating a price lower than MSRP was a shot in the dark and no one knew if they were getting a good deal or not. Some people had a formula and made some false assumptions. "yeah these things are marked up at least 20%" and would make an offer based on that false info. Today knowing about the invoice price, rebates, holdback, and incentives, a buyer can make a much better "guess" at what is a good fair price for the car, based on the market.

mark156 · August 2003

I'm thinking of trading my 2002 ML500 at the end of the year for an '04 model. I would like a larger SUV. What do you guys think of the Lincoln Navigator or would the GMC Yukon be better? Are either of these vehicles unreliable? Zues, especially with your experience with the lemon law, etc., what are seeing on these?

I would consider the Lexus LX470 when the new design comes out but haven't read when that will happen.

Thanks for your opinions. Mark156

imidazol97 · August 2003

Thanks for the explanation of your one sentence. I was worried that knowledge was controlled by a plot for distribution.
Most kids are in school 7 hours a day; the other 17 hours are their parent's responsibility. If the parents aren't home and properly interacting with their children, that's a parenting problem. Most states have reacted to the republican attempt to replace the public schools with other education, and one technique has been school testing to evaluate how well the "school has done" rather than evaluate the kids. Schools end up being blamed for the results of poor parenting (jeffmust2 is right -- have kids go ahead -- no waiting no training no responsibility).
See your local Walmart for examples.

larryintn: Schools don't have time to teach to everyone's whims of what the schools should do -- the NEA has taken care of that with their lack of direction. The schools teach to the SAT, ACT, local testing, state-mandated testing. And the politicians try to use any results to blame the schools for poor parenting results. In this state kids in the lowest economic situations and one-parent households always do the poorest. DUH, wonder why. Poor parenting.
Aren't kids in math about 1 hour each day?

larryintn · August 2003

Personal finance isn't a whim, it's a vital skill that will have a major impact on the students quality of life and, ultimatiely, whether or not they will be self sufficient or dependent on the state.

What's more important to the quality of life of the average American student, quadratic equations or balacing a checkbook? Factoring or understanding time value of money? Solving a geometric proof or understanding retirement planning?

zueslewis · August 2003

I don't see many Navigators at all, perhaps because their production numbers aren't huge. I've seen a few Yukons/Tahoes, but not for major issues.

imidazol97 · August 2003

Instead of dumping another major skill for schools to include in the curriculum (which means a group will be protesting leaving something else out to make room!!!), let's do to the financial institutions and car dealers what has been done to the schools. (This is hypothetical, so please don't flame me...)

All banks/money instution should provide education on the ins and outs of borrowing/saving money and compare with various other places/techniques which the borrower/saver could use. This must be thorough and a test will be given to evaluate the effectiveness of the bank/money institution after the account is opened.
For car dealers training must be given to all buyers/leasees before the transaction can be finalized. Information must be given to the buyer for all variations of keeping their own car, buying a new one from that dealer, or buying/leasing from other dealers. The customer must be thoroughly aware of potential costs or savings of each choice. A test will be given 30 days later to each buyer/leasee and the dealership/salesman will be evaluated by the results of those tests. If not effective in this the dealership/salesman may lose their license.

Suggesting schools include more could follow the path of current suggestions with testing -- or remember what has happened with sex education!!! Every group had their own protests at each school to complain about what shouldn't be included and what should be included.

Remember this is hypothetical of how financial training beyond what schools already do could be put into place. Please do not flame my comparison!!!

raybear · August 2003

There are few '03's left, and I doubt your $500 coupon is transferrable, probably the lease deal loyatly program waiving the first payment and security deposit.

There are 5 Forester X automatics in New England.

None in red.

njswamplands · August 2003

lets get back on topic

isellhondas · August 2003

I think there actually just might be a couple of us left out here....

audia8q · August 2003

I'm going to train all of our customers that if they don't pay $1000 over MSRP they are the class failure.

CarMan@Edmunds · August 2003

Hi everyone. This discussion has drifted way too off course. Any future posts that do not relate to the automotive industry will be deleted immediately. Thanks.

Car_man
Host
Smart Shoppers / FWI Message Boards

rerenov8r · August 2003

I like to look at the cars on the lot (mostly used) even when the stiore is closed {in Illinois you can't sell 'em on Sunday...). I've noticed more and more lots putting the hang tags on the rearview mirrors specifically labeled "Sunday Shopper" with 'a price' -- is that a "no haggle" type deal -as in "Don't offer less than this, 'cuz we won't take it" or more of a "If you think this is a good starting point, come back and talk when we are open" ???

On a few cars/trucks the "Sunday Shopper" tag has something that actually might be a pretty good deal, but most of 'em seem every bit as inflated as the "classified ad price", which is generally higher than the retail/ TMV value price I've seen...

Do these 'hang tags' make it easier/harder for dealers to move used cars?

mark156 · August 2003

I'm really leaning towards the Navigator. If I get one, my sister wants to buy it after I have it for two years. She and her husband have a '98 Expedition and '99 Explorer and have had really good luck with the both them.

I've been reading the Navigator board and some folks have had a couple of small issues. It's your knowledge of what's happening on the "lemon" side that I'm concerned about. As you have said before, there are some manufacturers that are popping up all of the time. It's nice to hear the Navigator is not one of them.

Thanks again for the info. Mark

zueslewis · August 2003

All you need is some chrome 20s (dubs) and you're set!

Just kidding.

jeffmust2 · August 2003

...dubs are out...even the FX45 comes with 'em standard...so you gotta have 24s these days.

vikd · August 2003

...but then, the FX45 is no average vehicle!

I thought "dubs" were 22's...? You know, like "double" 2's... I dunno, it's all so confusing...

Regards... Vikd

jeffmust2 · August 2003

...like me.

And I think you're right that dubs are 22" rims.
Zues was wrong Zues was wrong Zues was...ok, done now.

As in the acronym "AWD" - All Wheels are Dubs.

zueslewis · August 2003

came up long before 22s hit the scene -

http://www.dubmagazine.com/dubindex.htm

Has nothing to do with the actual wheel measurement, it's just a name/acronym/slang word...

And I'm probably older than both of you. You call yourselves car guys?? You should be ashamed!

tboner · August 2003

That Dubs were 20" or better and then Jordans were 23's.

I'm sure the kids are thinking of new slang right now, since there is someone over 25 who thinks they might know a word or two of it

TB

zueslewis · August 2003

'cause I've already figured out Snoop Dog's dialect....

bretfraz · August 2003

Mah nizzle.

jeffmust2 · August 2003

eom

mackabee · August 2003

Huh?
{:?
Mackabee

mark156 · August 2003

I've never heard of the term "Dubs". I must be a really boring person. LOL!

I looked at a '03 Navigator about a month ago and saw one with the chrome wheels and the "spinners". I was absolutely flabbergasted on the price of those wheels. The list showed them to be an additional $11,000 for the wheels and spinners. I don't want to look like a drug dealer or gang banger or whatever they call'em.

Mark

zueslewis · August 2003

doesn't matter when you're paying cash to launder drug money....

jasmith52 · August 2003

Outrageous ! $11000 for some Wheels

Maybe you could negotiate em down to $10900.

After All - You don't want to pay too much for just some wheels!

vikd · August 2003

...is so overly played out! When my, white as the driven snow, upper-middle class, suburban dwelling 16 yr old little brother is using it, you gotta think that it's lost just a little bit of street cred... <<<rant over>>>

So "Dubs" is a generic term huh...? Guess it's just like me to try to assign specific values to a slang word...too much coffee this morning; I'll go now.

Regards... Vikd

isellhondas · August 2003

Seems to have bit the dust...too bad...

zueslewis · August 2003

that slaps us around and make us stop talking about all this stuff, dubs and swiwizzit...

KCRam · August 2003

the host is right here, laughing at you guys

Say what you want about 20+ wheels and low-profile tires... I have six Michelin LTX M/S Commercial tires on my Ram dually - LT215/85R16E, 10 ply, reinforced sidewalls, three steel belts, on 16x6 forged aluminum wheels. I don't dodge (no pun intended) tire carcasses from semis on the interstate - or glass bottles. Show me a 35-series tire that won't kill itself running over a semi-trailer's tire remains at 65 mph.

Back to the topic at hand...

kcram
Host
Smart Shopper and FWI Message Boards

masspector · August 2003

I thought our wonderful president initiated that term...as in Dubya.

imidazol97 · August 2003

I thought this was about buying, financing, selling cars in this topic.

scipio1 · August 2003

OK, I've heard that South Carolina's car sales tax has a ceiling of $300 (until the luxury tax kicks in). Is this true, and what other states have sales tax caps on car sales?

Also, does anyone know if you could use the SC tax if you, say, bought a car in Florida for registration in SC? I'm looking at an exotic car, and if I could realize these tax savings it would more than offset the cost of renting a place in SC or elsewhere and keeping the car there for the first six months - year.

bigorange30 · August 2003

The ceiling is $300 in SC and yes you can buy a car in FL and you will still pay $300 if you register in SC. However, you better have another car whose tags you can transfer from, otherwise, when you go to get the tags, you will have to pay personal proprerty taxes which are outrageous in SC. Then you better get that car out of SC before the tags expire or you will pay the personal property tax the next year and it will still be high. My personal property tax for year 2 of ownership was a full 2% of my original purchase price.

sonjaab · August 2003

http://www.urbandictionary.com/

To stay on topic:
Do any of you car dealers offer this stuff
for my pickup truck or Caddy ?
A wing is on my wish list too !.............LOL and feelin' old!

prodigalsun · August 2003

Ok, I'm looking at buying a Dodge SRT-4, and the majority of the dealers in the NW have 6K sucker stickers on 'em. Edmunds says I should be able to get it for MSRP, yet I've found a dealer who says they will do the deal for Invoice. Is this too good to be true?

zueslewis · August 2003

From "pay up, sucker" to "we can't give 'em away!".

Buy it for invoice - I wonder if there are rebates?

prodigalsun · August 2003

I'm wondering if we're looking at some hefty doc fees on this one.

My research has not discovered any rebates for this model. I have found a few dealers out in the boonies that are selling 'em for sticker. the one dealer I talked to, their internet manager said it was their "Policy" to sell their cars for invoice. So, I'm gonna take them at their word until it changes.

PS

zueslewis · August 2003

Maybe the internet guy doesn't realize how hot this car is....it was Sport Compact Car Magazine's first Car of the Year (and a domestic...strange...)

prodigalsun · August 2003

I just have to wait 2 weeks for our house to close. She told me she'd be there with the price when I was ready.

akangl · August 2003

OOOOOOOO, I'm so jealous. I got to sit in one of those SRT-4 the last time I was at the Dodge dealer. It belonged to one of the salesmen, he paid MSRP + $2k for it, was the first one in Anchorage. NICE CAR!!!!

*Sitting here contemplating how she can get one* hmmmm....

mark156 · August 2003

I have to say, I've never heard of a Dodge SRT-4. What is it? What frame is it built on? I get two car mags a month including Motorhome magazine (I know, I know).

Akangl, I'll say it before Terry does, "don't go near a car showroom"!

)

I want to go for the "big" Suv next time. I'm still thinking of the Lincoln Navigator. I like my ML500 (w/third seat option) but I want more room. I take several drives across country every year and this will be the perfect vehicle (I think).

Mark

rerenov8r · August 2003

The shell is mostly Neon -- the motor is 4 cylinders straight from the dragstrip. 0-60 is about half a second behind a Viper. Whee!

zueslewis · August 2003

turbo'd engine from the PT Cruiser GT (Turbo), only it's a Neon with 17" wheels and cool suspension.

I have an '03 PT GT and I've embarrassed quite a few younguns in need of an education on power to weight ratios.

akangl · August 2003

Awwww, you're no fun.

*sits here drooling over Dodge SRT-4, Subaru WRX STi, and Mitsubishi Lancer EVO*

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