Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

tboner

but, I heard an ad with similar numbers in my market. A rebate of $3000 and Ford matches your down payment of upto $1000.

Perhaps that is where/why you have to finance with them, to get the down payment match.

If you didn't have cash down, perhaps equity in your trade? (I don't recall if any trade was involved.)

But if you are happy with your truck, that's probably the most important aspect.

For example, I googled Ford Ranger Down Payment match and came up with the following deal:

2003 Ranger $7261 XYZ Ford Price
$14265 MSRP
  2494 XYZ Ford Discount
  2604 Ford Cash
  1000 Down Payment Match
   400 College Grad Cash

So perhaps that explains the $1000 for financing???

TB

CarMan@Edmunds

Hi Peter. Just in case you are interested I can explain Ford's current incentives on the 2003 Ranger a little more clearly than your salesperson did. Right now, Ford is providing 0.0% special financing for up to 60 months and 1.9% fir 72 months OR $3,000 customer cash OR 1.9% financing for up to 36 months, 2.9% for 48 months, and 3.9% for 60 months PLUS $1,500 customer cash on the '03 Ranger. The additional $1,000 that you mentioned is what is known as Ford Credit bonus cash. If you decide to finance or lease this truck through Ford Credit you are eligible for this additional $1,000. So, you could finance this vehicle at 0.0% for 60 months and get the $1,000, you could lease it - getting Ford's base lease cash plus this $1,000, or you can take the $3,000 consumer cash and finance it through Ford Credit using its standard financing rates and get the additional $1,000 - bringing the total cash incentive to $4,000. You chose the last option. Most domestic automakers' captive finance companies have pretty bad standard finance rates. It is entirely possible that the 7.something% rate that you were given is Ford Credit's base standard rate. If you are really unhappy with this loan, you should look into refinancing it through a different bank. I hope that this clarifies the extremely confusing incentives that are available on this model .

Car_man
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sandman46

I married her!!

The Sandman :-)

jlawrence01

As a CPA with a paid-off home mortgage and NO debt except a credit card that is paid off each month, I was kind of surprised when I found my FICO score to be just below 750. I *THOUGHT* that it would be close to 800.

I think that NOT having some revolving debt actually lowers your score a bit.

Personally, I don't spend a lot of time worrying about it as I don't plan on financing further auto or home purchases.

rroyce10

..... Aren't you really the "Sandlady46" .. ;-)

      Zues - unless they have a twisted Montgomery Ward, etc, card that's bounced back on their credit 2 or 3 times a year and their beacon is now 550 .l.o.l...

         I remember just a few years ago doing re- fi's to get 7%, off of 8.25% or so .. 7% was thee rate, now 5.5% or less on Commercial and 4.5% on homes - Wow.!

           Sandperson46 - ALWAYS have your credit checked once a year, just for stupid reasons like that ..

                      Terry.

zueslewis

in that in Abilene, TX (where I was stationed from 1987-1990), there was a James E. Lewis, Jr. In the days before computers were as good and "self-checking" as they are now, this guy had enough bad checks to wallpaper a house and had a Gordon's Jeweler's card - I had a Gordon's account, too.

Some of our credit info got cross-switched, he had a horrible Gordon's account, and it took me over a year to straighten it out. It was hard to convince people, through letters and phone calls, that my middle name is Edwin, not Erson (as his was), and I was not a "junior". Of course, or SSANs were different, but that would be too easy....

Another reason to check your credit once a year, if for no other reason than to make sure everthing listed is YOURS and is CORRECT.

sergeym

In January 1998 I bought a 1998 Nissan Maxima SE. The FI manager (I had no idea at that time who he was. Thought he was just someone responsible for a paper work) offered me financing at 9%. I showed the very, very nice gentleman an offer from some internet source (peoplefirst?) at %7.5. The FI manager then told me that if I agree to buy an extended warranty from Nissan ($1,100) he can get me financed at 6.99%. The warranty was for 5years/60K miles and was transferable. We even calculated my savings and with 6.99% financing the warranty would actually cost me around $700. So I said - OK. I was under impression that financing comes from Nissan and they were giving me a discount rate for buying it. Made sense. Later when I've got the payment booklet I was surprised that I was supposed to pay Chase Manhattan Bank. Chase gave me a discount to buy warranty from Nissan? That was strange. Then my warranty papers came in and the agreement said that I can cancel within first month for a full refund. I called Chase I asked them if my rate will be changed if I cancel the warranty. For a while they could not understand what I am talking about. Finally the answer was - these two are not related. So I cancelled the warranty, got my money back. Turned out to be the right decision. I traded the car 3 years 2 month later and it never needed any warranty work. Now years later I fill that I was cheated. Why would Chase give me a discount rate for buying extended warranty from Nissan. Looks like my case and viper's are somewhat similar. The $1000 discount and 7.49% have nothing to do with each other.

zueslewis

with each other - the F&I guy was holding the rate for you and knew he'd make a good profit on the warranty.

Anytime you hear "if you do this, I can do this", it's a line and its dishonest.

Easy enough to confirm through the dealership's GM or the actual lender in question before signing up.

viper0074

What I meant by "no sleaziness involved" was that they did not promise me one price and sell the car at another price.

When I wrote my first message last night, I was angry because they led me to believe that I'd be getting an additional $1000 off the already low internet price of $13,758 in exchange for the higher interest rate.

When they finally cleared up the numbers, they said it was my fault for misunderstanding because I didn't read the fine print on their website. Unless there is an invisible font in HTML, there is no fine print on their website.

All I'm saying is that they had a great deal to offer but they screwed it up by not being able to clearly present the facts of the deal.

A funny thing is that, now I have an email from them asking me to fill out a survey on how I was treated!

I'm going to call the guy that told me to read the fine print tomorrow and tell him to fax me a printout of the fine print on the web. I'm going to then call the sales manager that asked me to fill out the survey and tell him that his salesguy and his finance guy are both dopes for turning what should have been a slam dunk into an air ball.

CarMan, thanks for the explanation on the incentives. The fact that you know about the additional $1000 incentive goes to show that what these jokers were doing was legit (that's what I meant by No Sleaziness). It was all legit, but they somehow screwed it up by not being able to clearly present how the deal was structured.

Good night folks. Thanks again for your help.

Peter

masspector

What would have happened if you had come in with your internet price sheet and coupon and said that you wanted that price and you were paying cash, or you had your own financing prearranged? Just curious how they would have backed out of that one.

It still appears that you only got a good deal. If you could have gotten 4K below invoice with a cash deal, that would have been great. By tying the extra 1K to the high financing, it dilutes the savings. Of course if you can refi with no penalty to a real rate, then you have in effect gotten a great deal. Hope you like the new truck.

viper0074

Hi everyone,

Peoplefirst.com offers refi rates that are the same as new car rates if you have not made your first payment on the original loan.

Is there anyone here that is familiar with the ins and outs of Ford Motor Credit? I know that there is no prepayment penalty on the loan, but I wonder if that applies if I paid off the entire balance on the first installment date.

Even if there is no prepayment penalty, I also wonder if there is a way for me to lose the $1000 rebate by paying off the loan next month.

Peoplefirst's 3 year new car rate is 3.5%. Even if worse comes to worst, their used car refi rate is around 4.5% (Not 100% sure on this one), I'll still be better off than the 7.49% from Ford.

So many dealers use Ford. Someone out there has to know how this works!

Thanks,

Peter

jeffmust2

Just review the contract you signed and see if there's any type of penalty for cancelling it before end of term.

viper0074

It's pretty standard for a loan contract from a reputable bank to have a "no prepayment penalty" clause nowadays.

When you trade in a car with a loan balance, you are prepaying the loan.

It's just that I've never prepaid a loan before the 1st payment was even due. I have a feeling that there would be no penalty.

My second concern is that they would have retract the $1000 rebate if I pay it off this week, but I don't think they would do that either.

I'll just have to call Ford.

Peter

audia8q

The ford credit incentive usually requires 90 days before being paid-off.

peeete

I just saw a new tv ad for the focus, and at the end they threw in the statement that there is a 100,000 mile powertrain warranty! A first for Ford I guess. It was mentioned as an afterthought in the ad...Perhaps Ford is wiseing up?

viper0074

I'm assuming you know this because you sell Mazdas.

Peter

rivertown

The Edmunds incentive page on the Ranger reads to me that you can choose between a $4K rebate without special financing or a $2.5K rebate with special financing.

I think your $4K rebate is safe, but calling Ford is by far the right thing to do.

You're coming out of this smelling like a rose. Bravo!

landru2

They've had that since the 2002 model. All Ford cars plus Windstar.

peeete

I just saw a new tv ad for the focus, and at the end they threw in the statement that there is a 100,000 mile powertrain warranty! A first for Ford I guess. It was mentioned as an afterthought in the ad...Perhaps Ford is wiseing up?

peeete

Ok my mistake..I thought all Fords were 3/36

zueslewis

5 year, 100,000-mile powertrain. Of course, the things that break (sensors, harnesses, control modules (PCM, ECM, TCM, EBCM, etc)) are not covered.

audia8q

we also have Acura, Ford, Lincoln, Mercury, mazda and kia.

mackabee

I hate them. Not because they help people buy cars and drives traffic to our showrooms, but because when dealerships start all the confusing advertising that includeds rebate or after rebate, or loyalty rebate, and so on and so on, it makes it difficult for the customer and salespeople to understand. I wish they would just do it like the department stores do: example
2003 Expenso Minulta MSRP $14,395.00 YOUR PRICE $13295.00 after manufacturer's $1000.00 rebate. Or 2003 Expenso Minulta MSRP $14,395.00 less $1000.00 rebate $13,295.00 tax, title, and license additional . Period . It would make life so much easier for everyone. Do you agree or am I in left field with the Dodgers?
                    : )
                    Mackabee

kyfdx

That Mack's numbers are off by $100? LOL

just kidding you,
kyfdx

rivertown

if you paid me.

masspector

I am with you too. Forget the rebate, just lower the invoice and MSRP price 2K.

sonjaab

The MILITARY rebate too !

Besides even if they did lower the MSRP AND include adv., dist., DOC, etc. fees.
People would STILL want BELOW invoice etc.!

YES- NO?

bobst

For years I have doubted that a straight-forward guy like you could ever be in car sales.

Don't you understand that a car salesperson is supposed to make the customer as confused as possible? When the customer has no idea which way is up, they can be suckered into paying too much for a car.

That is why car dealers are always trying to find ways to confuse us. Aren't you a willing partner to this conspiracy?

Bob

chorton

IMHO, Most people get confused when they KEEEEEP trying to find the "gimic" in a good deal. Most people now days make it harder to buy a car than it really is. Unlike it was in the past, the car biz as a whole has cleaned up some. You just don't hear about the people getting RIPPED. Now it's the dealers that are getting the short end. Not that they need pity, but everyone wants to buy a car for invoice,less any rebates,dealer cash ect.

I had a guy today call here asking about a truck ad we have,2003 tundra reg cab v6 5sp-base truck
MSRP= 17839
sale price=13988 +destination,T,T,F after 1750 rebate.
Actual selling price is 16288 with dest. before rebate.
I figured the TOTAL deliverd price for him
total=15434.56 after rebate.
He stated he might use the financing instead and wanted the price w/o the rebate so I told him,
17184.56. He got mad and said-"So the truck is still over 17 thousand. Ya'll aint come down none have ya? Thats all i needed to know" I said "that price IS the out the door TOTAL!" He said,"yeah but you still ain't really done no deal...BYE!" and he hung up. I guess he didn't know a deal on this truck when he sees it. That price structure is a little confusing but I TRIED to explain it as plainly as possible. I wasn't out to confuse him, he confused himself.

rlsjr

I am looking at purchasing a new Toyota from a couple of dealers outside my local area to get the best price. One is about 40 miles away, the other about 130 miles away. My question is this, when it comes to getting warranty service at a dealership, what "rules" apply about where the serivce is performed. Will I run into difficulty if I take it to my local dealership, or are they obligated to perform any warranty work regardless of where it was purchased?

dtwleungnyc

How's the new body style Sienna doing? Only seen a couple so far in NYC. Just curious. Thanks in advance.

chorton

There is a waiting list a mile long for that van. They are selling for MSRP or close to it. The production can't keep up with the demand. Why not it's the Best van on the market right now.

RLSJR
Any toyota dealer will perform ANY work you need. There are no rules for buying and servicing here there or anything. Your local dealer IS obligated to do your warranty work. if they won't you can report it to toyota.

rlsjr

chorton, thanks for the response. That's what I suspected, but it's nice to have it confirmed.

dtwleungnyc

Lucky I am not in the market for one right now, hopefully in 2 years, the supply would exceede the demand. I am also interest to see Honda's answer to the new Sienna. This should be interesting.

sandman46

After going to 2 different dealers yesterday, the 1 I bought from and 1 closer to home, my a/c leak problem was found. I did have to take both the service advisor and the mechanic back to the car and lift up the floor mat TO SHOW THEM THE WET CARPET!! I honestly couldn't believe they both couldn't at least feel the wetness. Turns out a plastic piece of the a/c is cracked behind the console, so the part has been ordered and should be in Ft. Lauderdale tomorrow.
They did say the whole dash will have to come off to fix the problem...this thrills me no end! I just pray to G-D that these folks can get it done right the first time.
Wish me luck all!

The Sandman :-(

larryintn

Car prices change too often to be constantly adjusting the invoice and MSRP. If you want a simple system then set MSRP on the high end and have a rebate that adjusts up/down to match the local market conditions.

chorton

But why make it a 3000-4000 rebate. Lower the price and make it 1000-1500 max. Thats how toyota does it and we are gaining more market share than most!!!

larryintn

I suppose that hope springs eternal.

baboo149

I have a verbal quote from dealer to sell me either of these vehicles as I want equipped at $500 under invoice. I find that hard to believe. Has anyone in the area had a similar experience, or is this too good to be true? I also get to keep or apply the rebate to the price?

Is anyone familiar with Carousel Hyundai in West Chester?

zueslewis

is that before or after rebate? Do you have a trade?

daphnesanfran

I just purchased a 1999 Honda Civic LX today (I'm picking it up in a few days). It's a certified used honda, has 42000 miles on it, and I paid $11388 for it (the TMV on Edmunds is around this much).
1) Do you think I paid too much?
2) I noticed on Edmunds that there was an ignition switch recall on this type of car in 2002- will the dealer know if it was replaced?
3) What the heck is a Honda Care Service contract? I did the unthinkable and bought it without understanding it 100% - chalk it up to exhaustion and malnutrition when I was there. I have 60 days to cancel - if you were me, would you keep it?
Thanks in advance for your help!

stebu

I think the problem is there were too many digits in that quoted price. If you'd only knocked off that .56 you probably would have sold him... lol!

baboo149

That price is before the rebate. Too good to be true?

zueslewis

Dealers sell below invoice on vehicles that are hard to move - they may try to stick you on your trade, though, if you have one.

I encourage people to avoid Hyundai and Kia products at all costs. They produce fewer vehicles compared to the other manufacturers, yet account for 25-30% of my lawfirm's total caseload (lemon law/breach of warranty).

audia8q

actually no dealer is "required" to service anyone car they don't want to....

More than once we have fired a customer who wasnt worth having as a customer...It's rare but it happens.

Of course most dealers would be glad to accept any work that is offered...Alot of dealers always give "their own" customers priority appointments. Our computer system flags any car purchased from our dealerships..

baboo149

Thanks for the info zueslewis. I do have a trade, and I have a FMV that I got from a link from their website. It seems reasonable. If I decide to buy a Hyundai (dont know now), I'll expect that they give me the price that was linked to their webpage. I gotta get away from these $400/mo car payments. Thats why I am looking at Hyundai. Would you recommend another vehicle that is not so "lawyer friendly"?

zueslewis

Valley, I'd probably get to meet you if you owned a Hyundai.

Never, never, ever, trust a fair market value quote. The website I ran with Lithia didn't have a vehicle value quote capability, because there are always factors that you as a consumer don't know and we as a dealer couldn't see. To even attempt at providing a figure is insane, IMO. Besides, I see all the time where you're given a quote and the dealer comes up with some lame excuse (usually the mega-dealers, not the Mom and Pop places) as to why they have to offer you $4 grand less than their website indicated....

GM intermediates have worked out many of their bugs, and the rebates are through the roof right now - same with Ford and DCC. On the import front, Honda Accord/Civic and Toyota Camry/Corolla are always an easy bet and I rarely see them in my case load.

Subaru is a great value, and I rarely see them as well - my fave is the WRX, but the 2.5RS is a kickin' car for the money, as is the Legacy, if you're a little more conservative - no harm in that.

I also deal in many dealer fraud cases - drop me an e-mail if you like and I'll let you know who in our area to avoid.

imidazol97

Thanks for your sincere comments about different cars, Kia, Hyundai, GM intermediates, etc., and their potential for problems that end up in legal cases. Of the ones that you see from Kia/Hyundai, are those problems the company could have taken care of but didn't or are they problems that dealers didn't want to make correct to the customer's requirements? I.e., could the dealers have fixed the problems?

I've always felt the dealer made the difference in people's perceptions of a brand. In the 1980s the silent recalls fixed a lot of foreign brand problems when the cars were in the shop for other things, the customer thought, and the customer never knew problems had been fixed. On the other hand GM/Ford had public recalls hyped further by the media. I believe today many still think the problems are fewer with foreign brands (Honda/Toyota) than GM because of that perception from the past dealer care along with marketing images.

I'd appreciate your comments, Zueslewis.

imidazol97

I love that state. Visited Philly last week. At Longwood Gardens we were directed to restaurant row on 202. Turned out we went far enough south that we ate in Delaware at Red Lobster.

NO SALES TAX!!!!

How does Delaware manage that? Is there sales tax on anything, like cars?

manamal

Del has a sales tax on cars. They also have a relatively high income tax (8%). Finally, they get a lot of corp taxes, as many (most) companies incorperate in Delaware.

And, you can do better the Red Lobster in Wilmington.