Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options
Any Questions for a Car Dealer?
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
For example, I have low mileage '98 Ford Contour SVT, which I've considered trading in. The vehicle I'm considering is an early '90's Mazda Miata. The asking price for some of the Miatas I've looked at is less than the likely trade in value of he Contour SVT.
What I'm wondering is... if it's a wholesale for retail deal, why should a car dealer care if my car is worth more than his? He's still getting his money when he sells his car and will get it it again when he sells mine.
Or maybe he doesn't care.... ???????
I assume that the sales tax on such a transaction would be zero?
: )
Mackabee
As for whether my Contour SVT is actually worth more than a Miata.... I guess that depends on what you tell me in the trade in values board. :-)
to throw the bloodhounds off the trail !
RIVER: I like that post ! My 97 trade went to "recon".......The wash rack, front line, and down the road ! Dealer made 3 grand in a couple of hours..........LOL
"They are, not, however a Honda."
LOL you must repeat this so often that it has become a mantra...I think you need to get out there and talk to your mechanics a little more...not to mention this is the year 2003, not 1986. But I disgress...
I think a Honda Civic makes a great new car purchase, but a bad used car choice if you're simply in the market for good inexpensive transportation. A Prizm or Saturn SL2 will not cost a small amount less but 3-4 thousand less than a comparably equiped in the 99 model year civic. This is a very large and signifigant difference. I have personally driven these cars back to back with Civics just to see if I could detect a large difference in ride, handling, or refinement. I could not.
As for the THOUSANDS of posts discussing problems with Hondas here on Edmunds please feel free to search by keyword - type in "Honda problem" and you will see that yes indeed there are THOUSANDS.
I won't even go into the fact that this particular poster admits to knowing nothing about the mechanical operations of a vehicle. This is yet another reason to purchase a Saturn because you can take it to the dealer and get the straight scoop. (Dealer network rated #1 for service out of all manufactures by J.D. Powers)
Having said that, if I had to buy USED, I would more than likely never buy a Honda or a Toyota, they are simply overpriced. Prism is a no brainner, you get Toyota quality at Chevy’s price. Saturn is probably not as reliable as a Civic, but at $3-4K discount even in the unlikely event that you have to replace an engine or a transmission, you will still break even. Some of GM full size cars and trucks are as reliable as Toyotas at the fraction of the price. Compare J.D. Powers rating for Buick LeSabre and the Avalon. The LeSabre is just as reliable, but its resale value is half of the Avalon.
When you buy used, you can’t afford to worry about style you have to be practical.
Once again, I have NO PROBLEM with Saturns. We take a fair number of these in trade...for Hondas.
If I get a used car shopper whose budget eliminates late model Civics a used Saturn can be a good choice.
The main reason is the fact they depreciate a lot lot more than a Honda does. That is WHY they can be bought for thousands of dollars less.
O.K. ?
Lot more impressive knocking buyers for lousy attitudes.
Quick money factor question for the Honda guys:
I looked at an 2003 Accord EX V6 on Saturday. The guy is willing to sell it for invoice. When ask I him about a money factor for 36mo lease, he said it was 0.0022. I get his card and leave.
I then go over the Acura dealer and look at a TL. The money factor on a TL lease is 0.00092 as per Car_man in the leasing forum. Even though the Acura costs about 4,000 more than the Accord, the monthly lease payment is only a little more because of the big money factor difference.
I call the Honda dealer this morning and my sales guy is not around but I talk to his manager. I asked if the money factor was at all negeotiable and he said that American Honda Finance sets it and they cannot change it.
Is this is correct?
Thanks,
Peter
If you are set on a lease and the difference is very small it would make sense to just get the Acura...
I doubt that the lease rate leave much remove for negeotiation, of course the PRICE is still worth haggling over.
I do like the new Accord's interior better than the TL's and the Accord has side-curtain airbags that the TL does not.
Of course, the TL as bigger wheels, a little more power, HID lights, and stability control.
I figure the equipment differences are a wash.
I have about $5000 in negative equity I'm trying to finance (you can see my post in Terry's world), so money factor pays more of a role.
I kind of figured that the dealer wouldn't be able to adjust the money factor, but I figured that it wouldn't hurt to ask them.
Understandably, American Honda needs to move the remaining 2003 TLs before the redesigned 04s start rolling in.
Thanks,
Peter
Or you can get a new Accord with all of the new changes and just finance it for 2.9% up to 60 months.
If you do this, you'll own it in the end.
Yeah, when the sales guy told me about the 2.9, I was leaning towards that, but the boss wants to lease.
Wife happy, life happy.
Later,
Peter
So please double check your information about the Accord. Perhaps Honda has changed something in the past few months or perhaps it's difficult to distinguish between side airbags and side curtain airbags. I just don't want this to be the deciding factor between your final choices without all the information.
Cheers.
By the way we take a fair number of Hondas on trade for new Saturns as well. Weird eh?
Thank goodness Isuzu didn't do that in '98-99. We were doing Trooper leases with an incredible money factor. The consumer gets a $1K down, 389 a month lease on a $40K truck, and we make $3,500 a pop in finance reserve. Everyone wins.
What type of attitude do you tell your sales staff to have when dealing with customers? Friendly, personable, and informative vs. confrontational, condescending, and standoffish?
I ask because my wife and I went to Bill Jacobs BMW (Naperville, IL) this weekend to look at the Z4. We walked around the showroom for 15 minutes and no one offered to help. There were 2 or 3 sales staff that were unoccupied, but they just sat there talking to each other, or were reading stuff. We went outside and walked around the lot before returning to the show floor- again, no one asked if we needed assistance. We then asked the receptionist for help, and an older guy (who was sitting around) came up and asked us what we wanted. Didn't offer to shake hands, didn't ask for our names. He looked very skeptical, and was very condescending. We went for a brief test drive, and returned the keys. He pretty much just walked away. Didn't give us his card, or ask if we were interested. It was the "buy it already or don't waste my time" schtick. My wife was shocked. I don't know if he profiled us (young looking, dressed in tshirt/shorts) or what. But it was bad enough that I am faxing a letter to the GM to tell them about our experience. And the funny thing is that A) we drove our M5 to the dealership, and
When my friend and I went to another BMW dealership in Westmont, IL, 1 year ago, I remember walking around the dealership for 15 minutes, and there were two salespeople who were playing solitaire and tetris on their computers at their desks and never asked if we needed help.
This has never happened at our local Lexus dealerships, where the salespeople are friendly, pleasant, and informative.
I will be faxing that letter in the morning to the dealership to see what kind of response I get. Interestingly, I talked to several other physicians today at the hospital who all had similar experiences at Bill Jacobs. I'll be damned if they get my business just because they have the local monopoly, and I'll tell anyone who asks, hell, anyone within earshop, to avoid that dealership like the plague-
But to get back to my question- are salespeople on their own in terms of their attitude or do the GM's tell their salespeople how to act?
I do think the management sets the tone..." the speed of the leader determines the speed of the pack".
No excuse for this.
Personally, I'll never pounce on a customer. I'll give them a lot of room. I'll greet them and ask how I can help them. If they only want to look...great! I'll hand them my card and I'll tell them to come find me if they have any questions.
In other words, I treat them the way I would like to be treated.
On the other hand, some dealers are the opposite of that BMW store. They will literally open your car door for you. they won't let you breathe. they will "turn" you from sales person to sales person.
Personally, I think that is worse.
My first sales manager had a great saying - "Your raise is effective when you are".
Nothing is more true with commissioned sales. I talked to EVERYONE when I was in sales, regardless of how casual or thrifty they looked. I learned who to avoid after being led on a few wild goose chases, but for the most part, I grabbed everyone I could get.
My philosophy is just like when I go to buy something. If I'm buying a shirt that I saw two days ago, I already know what I want, pick up the shirt, and pay for it. I don't care if someone approaches me.
When I need product info, though, I want someone to talk to.
Perfect example. I just bought a new computer. My best bud has a Dell 4600 and I liked it, but I thought I'd look around.
I looked at HPs at Costco. There, there isn't anyone to give you product info - you either buy it or you don't. I'm not an IT guy, so I had questions - it didn't work for me.
I went to Best Buy. I stood in the computer area for over 30 minutes (10 is usually my max) without anyone even noticing. I'm a very noticeable guy (look like a short version of Goldberg). I got PO'd, got my son from the video game area, and we were off to CompUSA.
At CompUSA, I got the stereotypical used car salesman version of a computer salesman. I told the guy what I did for a living and what type of machine I needed - he bashed every other product in the market, then tried to slam dunk me on a computer that was $1,000 higher that what I told him I was spending. I repeated what I had looked at on the Dell site and how much it was - he didn't want to hear it and started rambling aggressively about sounds systems and graphics/gaming programs - none of which I care about - I already told him that. I left.
I went to the mall, talked with "Lauren" at the Dell kiosk, asked a bunch of questions, got them all answered, ordered my computer and went home. The whole thing (at the mall) took 15 minutes, including paying for it and printing invoices.
I love it. I does everything I need and then some. I contacted the managers at Best Buy and CompUSA, but neither seemed to care since they'd already missed the sale.
From one sales manager to another, I told them they needed to mind their flock!
While they were doing that, I walked the lot. Only the best used cars made it.
Dang, now how can I work 'Questions For a Car Dealer' into this post?
But for the PC savy power user, it's hard to beat the price/performance ratio of a custom configured job. Either do-it-yourself, or through an online configurator.
Too bad they don't have the same situation with cars. The auto industry does offer up pretty much something for everybody as it is. But, for a real gear head... yeah, I'll take that M5 engine, and could you stuff it in that Cooper S, and don't forget the Connelly leather from the Rolls and the Q45 Birdseye maple...
I just bought a new bed. One of the places I went was Raymour & Flanigan, a large furniture chain up here. I was BLOWN AWAY at the similarity to the car business.
There was a young woman who greeted me and pointed me in a direction (dealership greeter).
A young man with very little knowledge began qualifying me and getting initial info (green pea).
When he couldn't close me on an impulse purchase, he motioned to an older guy - obviously experienced (closer/sales manager).
I also noted there was a sales TOWER (GSM). There was also a finance person to handle the closing paperwork and furniture protectant services (F&I guy selling mop and glo).
I caught a tear in my eye because of how much I miss the car business...
And, no, I didn't buy anything there!
is it verboten or compromising to proactively introduce yourself and ask for assistance?
is it "the first person that speaks looses"?
just my take: i don't think i would have walked around in the showroom that long without speaking with someone representing the dealership...
seriously, is there that much to see and do on your own?
if i hadn't initiated dialog with someone, i don't think i would i have bothered going back into the showroom after walking the lot, nor would i have approached the receptionist...
i'm not siding with poor dealership / salesmanship, but there are ways to communicate intent/interest...
we as customers are partially responsible for the experience too aren't we?
it's weird, but that's pretty indirect (unless of course, there's no one in the showroom except the receptionist - then it's as direct as possible isn't it?)
just another viewpoint.
I guess my old idea that the Best Auto Sales People work at the stores that feature the most expensive automobiles wasn't very accurate.
I do have to say that in visiting a half-dozen Lexus dealerships in the last ten years, I've never been treated less than excellent.
What don't people get about doing their jobs?
They aren't there to play cards, they are there to sell vehicles and follow up with buyers. If I was the sales manager, and a couple as described had walked in and weren't greeted, I would have cleaned the floor. Period.
Every desk with a soltaire game up would have been empty. The only excuse is that a salesperson was on the phone with a customer, but still there have been many times when I've been on the phone, and have gotten the attention of another salesperson to point out a customer on the lot.
2) You are wrong, period, about who should initiate the conversation in this type of situation. Remember, I can buy the car at any number of dealerships in the chicago area. But the salesperson/dealer is the one who wants my business, and benefits from our purchase. Consequently, it is incumbent on the salesperson to be proactive, professional, and helpful. Of course, the customer needs to be friendly and polite as well (there are plenty of moronic customers out there). But it's not the customers responsibility to do the bulk of the work here.
Same as in many other situations- other sales fields, oil change places, salons, and even medicine. As a physician, I should be proactive when meeting a new patient, to introduce myself, be cordial, friendly, and professional, because, in a crude sense, I want their business. They can go see another specialist if they don't like me, so it's up to me to do a good job. Same with the car salesperson / dealership. So in a sense, the customer/provider relationship is not a completely egalitarian one, as you suggest-
... so when we walk in to a dealership where the salespeople are playing solitaire and don't ask us for help, it's up to me to say, "hey, that's ok, i'm still going to spend $40-50K here, and expect good pre and post-sale customer service"-
I completely disagree with you-
Saturn currently is ranked #1 for service satisfaction.
Other than that I agree with you 100% with everything you said
-Dan-
So we walk into the BMW lot to look around at several of the cars. Nobody came up to greet us. So we wander inside, again nobody greeted us. So we looked at a few cars on the showroom floor. We wanted some help so we walk up to a salesman behind his desk and asked him for help. He was very annoyed with us for "bothering him". I guess we didn't look like the typical BMW customer.
He finally said something like - "Are you worthy of a BMW". My wife and I looked at each other and I said - "What". He repeated - "Are you worthy".
I was pretty irritated with this clown but said - yes we are worthy. He then said that he didn't think so, and would therefore not help us. We figured that this guy was an idiot and went over to another desk across the showroom floor and began talking to a different salesman. Well after about 30 seconds the phone rings on his desk. We believe it was the first salesman calling the second salesman. After the phone call he was also very condescending towards us. He actually told us to go look at Toyotas. We said - No we are here to look at a 7-series BMW. He then said that's a good one - now run along and don't bother us.
We couldn't believe the treatment that we were getting. So we moved away from this jerk and were looking at one of the cars in the showroom. I opened up the car and invited my wife to sit in the car. After I opened up the door to the car the first salesman came running over and said - "Hey don't touch the cars - you'll mess it up". He then said - "It's time for you two to leave - you're bothering the real customers". We couldn't believe what we were hearing. He then said it again- "Just leave". And so we began to leave.
As we were walking off the lot the two salesmen and some other guys came quickly walking towards us each holding something. Then they started to throw eggs at us. The missed with most of the eggs but one hit my wife right in the side of the head causing a great big glob. Another egg hit my Buick. They then yelled at us - "Don't come back here - You are not Worthy"
It was obvious that they didn't want our business so we left - in disgust. We talked about it after that and decided that we didn't really want a BMW after all.
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator