Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Any Questions for a Car Dealer?
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Although I do remember getting the "ugh, get OUT of here" treatment at a Porsche/Subaru/Audi dealer once. My fault, though.. I was inside the (very small, packed with people) dealership itself, trying to maneuver my 6' 230 lbs frame around this tiny little Subaru. I slipped, and accidentally nailed the horn. I'm not sure, but I think I actually heard someone move their bowels. Yeah, I skedaddled.
jassmith - you had me going - I usually believe you...
Only Gary Barbera has acquired vehicles direct from the factory for sale to the public! We'll sell these vehicles at less than the manufacturer suggests!
Isn't that what every freakin' dealer in the nation does? They get their vehicles from the manufacturer and sell them to people? At less than MSRP, usually?
I've been scoping out 360 Modenas for the last month and a half, and if you think BMW dealerships are snooty, just try a Ferrari or independent exotic shop for size. (Bring you own eggs so that you can be ready to return fire)
M5, I can understand why you'd be outraged by your local dealers. Maybe there's a geographical bias too: I know that when I lived in New York, the dealerships (not just BMW) would swarm you like white on rice if you looked like a banker/trader type, especially around bonus season, but if you walked in wearing casuals, they'd ignore you all day. Yuck. It's in New York that I got into the habit of dressing down and looking like a poor undergrad before going car shopping.
Out here in California, I think the dealers are just used to having high-end buyers show up in all sorts of dress. I still go car shopping in a T-shirt and flip-flops, but in California it doesn't seem to really affect how quickly a salesman will jump on me once I'm on the lot. There are a few exceptions, but overall I think there's just too many misleadingly young and underdressed customers in California to afford to ignore them.
The other thing I've noticed, especially among the Brentwood/Westwood/Hollywood set is the sheer number of kids whose parents are willing to fork over the money for a BMW/Mercedes/Hummer etc. Almost every time I visit a dealership, I have to just shake my head in bewilderment seeing some 17-year old buying an M3 or M5 with Daddy's money. I can't imagine those kids would have received a better welcome than you did, but it sure would be funny to see the reaction if one of them walked into one of your dealerships, M5.
I was even starting to believe the story...
I have a friend that traded up from her 540 to the new 7 series - it does ride and perform great but no way would that styling grow on me.
: )
Mackabee
I guess my question should be phrased another way- as the GM of a dealership, do you tell your salespeople to act a certain way- ie aggressive, laid-back, etc? For example, do Lexus GM's tell their salespeople to act they way they do? And more so than MB or BMW? Because somehow it seems that Lexus salespeople are more uniformly good-
Terry ;-)
An old family friend stopped his turkey meat delivery truck from his turkey farm next to small town Mercedes dealer in 70s. Had on coveralls he wore to deliver to restaurants in Dayton. Treated like dirt. Went to Cadillac dealer in downtown Dayton shopping next delivery day. Treated like real customer. He picked up the Caddy next week and paid cash.
Mercedes salesman never knew he missed a cash in pocket type of buyer who wanted a diesel.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
That being said, Saturn is really not in the same league as a Honda, Toyota or Nissan. I have not heard of Saturns running for 300K-500K miles like I have many Hondas, Toyotas and Nissans. The Accord should last many more years than the Saturn and that is why they are worth the money in the used market. I would not say they overpriced. People want them because they KNOW they will last. Saturns rank poorly in Consumer Reports and only mediocre in JD Powers. The L-series ranks 22nd among the 22 listed on the sedans compared in Consumer Reports.
http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2003050
Terry.
They're fine economy cars, but clearly lack the fit, finish and overall "feel" I got from Hondas and Acuras (I know I know, Acura is a higher level brand blah blah). Also, the driving dynamics of the two car brands are quite different.
The engine response is clearly more "American" in its orientation, less revvy, more torquey - and so that difference is a function of what you like better, but I found the brakes on most of the Saturns I've rented to be materially less confidence-inspiring than those on a Civic.
The price difference is probably compelling if you're on a strict budget, and perhaps you could argue better value for the price (personally I'd still go with a Civic any day), but I don't buy the "comparable car for much less" argument. The Civic, in my personal opinion, is just a better car.
Hyundai is in fact improving the quality of its products, while still offering the price value advantage they were known for when their products weren't so good. In fact, the Elantra is constantly beating many of the established names in the industry including the Corolla and Civic in some tests. When a 14K "base model" Elantra can place 2nd to the 18K Civic EX in the recent Edmunds economy comparison test that is saying something positive for Hyundai products. In fact, the Saturn Ion placed 8th/last in this same test
You or I might feel differently, but for the average car buyer, the research is clear and inarguable: people hate car buying more than almost any other shopping experience.
Personally, I like the give and take. But the system as it is works mostly in favor of the dealer, because it allows them to price discriminate (presumably charging according to a buyer's willingness to pay). Even if I negotiate a "great" deal, the system didn't neccesarily work in my favor - I just didn't pay as much as some other people. (What I mean to say is - if Best Buy let you negotiate, there's nothing to indicate you'd do better than you do with fixed pricing, which places competitive burden upon the store. It just ensures that you'll pay less than someone who's not as good at negotiating as you are). Saturn gets great sales marks because it allows people to walk away knowing they didn't pay more than the next guy.
Personally, I think Saturn's sales practice is a great differentiator. Unfortunately for Saturn, the Internet has shifted a lot of the power in the old relationship towards the customer, making the no-haggle price less important than it was ten years ago.
I don't think Saturn's problem is a sales format problem, I think it's a product and operating problem. Their cars just aren't quite as good as Honda's or Toyota's yet, and all the money they invested in automated manufacturing equipment reduced their operating flexibility.
Orange, better get some reading glasses ...
Terry.
These programs typically direct you to the fleet manager who has the authority to sell you the car for X dollars or X dollars over invoice without the back and forth.
My one experience with this type of program was with the large auto club that is listed first in the phone book. Their program directed me towards their preferred Honda dealer who would give me a no nonsense, direct price on an Ody. Granted, this was in 2000 when they were hot so I was hoping to get MSRP plus wheel locks or a pittance off of MSRP as opposed to the MSRP situation I was encountering elsewhere. Well their no nonsense, direct price for Auto Club members was MSRP plus $3K of required options. Ummmmm, thanks for the price.
I guess you need to decide.
I also called the salesperson I worked with at another dealership near my house, who spent time showing me the car and explaining features. I called him and asked for his best price. He'd only go to 300 under sticker! He lost any shot, and I wonder...as more folks like me go to more folks like those Internet sales managers (aka fleet managers, I presume?), will salespeople go away? Will the whole selling process change?
I for one hope it does.
--use a fax machine
--use the phone
--belong to a 'club'
Therefore the MAJORITY of dealers will stick to their old ways...
BTW I don't consider "auto by telephone" or "warehouse buying clubs" a 'scam' per se BUT they are NOT advertised to consumers/buyers the same way they are to dealers.
To buyers the promotional brochures/info says "get a low (?the lowest??) price FAST in a NO HASSLE way...". To dealers they say "acquire ready-to buy prospects in a faster cheaper way then traditional advertising methods"...
The reality is there are many more "modes" of getting cars sold than the old days. The great big inflatable pink gorilla supplanted the flags on every radio antenna...
Anyway, congrats on your purchase, but I think it'll be a loooonnnnnnggggg while before the car buying experience changes significantly, if at all.
You say this though:
"He told us to call him anytime before we would come out, and that he would introduce us to a good salesman."
Hmmm, that caught my eye.
That's real odd. So it sounds like things aren't really changing there much if you have to call ahead and warn them to be treated properly. Doesn't that bother you? It puts a qualifier on just about everything else he said to you. More status quo.
Maybe you should have called corporate to see if they'd be interested in your experience. Then again, maybe not.
Per my original post - I meant going to the receptionist was "indirect" because, the receptionist isn't/wasn't really in a position to help you and your wife...honestly, was she? what locate a sales rep that isn't/wasn't busy?
sorry, i wasn't being direct.
it seemed to me maybe you were just trying to assert some control in an unresponsive environment; maybe make it obvious everyone was goofing off? maybe complain to someone?
i wondered why you bothered even sticking around or comming back into the showroom?
i wondered too, what would have been the harm in just going up to one of these sales reps and introducing yourself?
my question about it being verboten wasn't directed specifically to you. it was an open-ended question to the sales people here dealing with the general defensiveness people have when visiting a dealership.
personally, i wouldn't have waited around to see if someone looked up from a card game or what have you, but it might have been a good piece of information to acquire regarding the seriousness and attitude of the people that work there.
if i were serious about the car or had questions i needed answers to (which i couldn't get elsewhere), i would have picked out a rep and introduced myself.
if on the otherhand, i just wanted to look or wanted my wife to see a particular vehicle up close without a hasstle, maybe i would have considered myself lucky.
just my 2 cents.
regards.
I understand that a "fleet" or "Internet" manager is a salesperson, but I was under the impression that they're compensated differently than the salespeople you'd meet walking in the front door. I was under the impression that fleet managers were salaried, and were bonused on volume rather than on a straight commission per sale. Is that not true?
: )
Mackbee
And they're usually more experienced and consistent, like Mackabee - he's the one you have to worry about. Stroll onto his lot with your numbers and you run a good risk of buying something....oh, no, the "I'm just looking" line doesn't work on the good ones!!
: )
Mackabee
however, isn't it true in many professions that there are workers that do much more than their fair share, and then there are others that don't reliably show up? seems to me that 20/80 rule is a much more widely applicable observation.
i could be wrong. just my impression.
i can't see an excuse really for the salesman not approaching m5power. i think i understand the points he raises.
i wonder if it's true that a dealership can keep lots of salespeople around because they are paid on commission?
in the case of this dealership, wouldn't it be better though to toss the reps ticking off your customers?
or is it better to keep them and make excuses for them?
someone in another post indicated that the sales force should reflect the style of the GM.
ouch.
: )
Mackabee
I'm curious. In all the years you have been in the car business, how many customers have actually brought a stop watch to measure how fast a vehicle moves from 0 to 60 mph?
I was actually fairly mean about it - I said "after all this, you'd better buy a car from me". He bought a Taurus from me because it sounded the best.
Whatever.
Regards... Vikd
It's not like she does this everyday when she drives to/from work, but still ... it was one of the main reasons we leased an Expedition back in '98. Turns out it handled better in that respect than the New Beetle we bought six weeks later (the NB was purely an emotional purchase).
I, for one, do look at 0-60 as one of many requirements for a car purchase. but that's because it matters to me. It doesn't matter to everyone.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Good thing too..I would have no idea and would have to go digging.
Usually the people who ask the oddball questions are non serious shoppers.
I echo what qbrozen said...I also like to know if the car can get out of its own way. If it's a "dog" (subjective), it will get crossed off my list pretty quickly.
She did and, true to form, discovered it turned just a bit tighter than the Queen Mary. Of course we also had to bring the Giant Schnauzers that averaged 100 lbs each.
Since they fit fine in the back with the 2nd row dropped and the Nav system was God's Gift to the Directionally Challenged...we took it. Rest of the vehicle's been excellent.
Most Married Men Know What's Coming Department:
For nearly three years now all I hear is..."How come you didn't know about it's lousy turning radius?"
Sigh.
jeff: oooohhh yeah, tell me about it
You know, come to think of it, I'm not really sure what *I* focus on during the test drive. Normally, I'm so intoxicated by the new car smell I don't really notice the rest.
When I test drove the Saturn, I think I was paying attention to the interior ergonomics and the power of the V6 engine. However, 8 months later, I still have trouble remembering that the doggone window switches are next to the transmission lever, not on the drivers door.