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Any Questions for a Car Dealer?

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Comments

  • himilerhimiler Member Posts: 1,209
    Yeah, they throw kimchi, and that stuff really stains!
  • pernaperna Member Posts: 521
    You actually had me going(up until the egg part)! I think I've been reading Town Hall too long, the outlandish stuff that happens at car dealerships doesn't surprise me anymore. :)

    Although I do remember getting the "ugh, get OUT of here" treatment at a Porsche/Subaru/Audi dealer once. My fault, though.. I was inside the (very small, packed with people) dealership itself, trying to maneuver my 6' 230 lbs frame around this tiny little Subaru. I slipped, and accidentally nailed the horn. I'm not sure, but I think I actually heard someone move their bowels. Yeah, I skedaddled.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    I'm in Lansdale, Montgomery Co - small world.

    jassmith - you had me going - I usually believe you...
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    i found that both educational and very entertaining. thanks.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    assumption that people are totally stupid. Maybe the dealer group has dealt with enough stupid people to assume everyone is that way. Heard in a radio ad today in Philly (92.5 WXTU) while coming back from an inspection in Jersey:

    Only Gary Barbera has acquired vehicles direct from the factory for sale to the public! We'll sell these vehicles at less than the manufacturer suggests!

    Isn't that what every freakin' dealer in the nation does? They get their vehicles from the manufacturer and sell them to people? At less than MSRP, usually?
  • grandtotalgrandtotal Member Posts: 1,207
    Now there's a rare thing - truth in advertising. That is if you overlook the word "only" at the beginning of the sentence.
  • scipio1scipio1 Member Posts: 142
    It's so funny because it hits so close to home... it didn't happen (well, except the eggs), but no one has any problem believing that it could happen.

    I've been scoping out 360 Modenas for the last month and a half, and if you think BMW dealerships are snooty, just try a Ferrari or independent exotic shop for size. (Bring you own eggs so that you can be ready to return fire)

    M5, I can understand why you'd be outraged by your local dealers. Maybe there's a geographical bias too: I know that when I lived in New York, the dealerships (not just BMW) would swarm you like white on rice if you looked like a banker/trader type, especially around bonus season, but if you walked in wearing casuals, they'd ignore you all day. Yuck. It's in New York that I got into the habit of dressing down and looking like a poor undergrad before going car shopping.

    Out here in California, I think the dealers are just used to having high-end buyers show up in all sorts of dress. I still go car shopping in a T-shirt and flip-flops, but in California it doesn't seem to really affect how quickly a salesman will jump on me once I'm on the lot. There are a few exceptions, but overall I think there's just too many misleadingly young and underdressed customers in California to afford to ignore them.

    The other thing I've noticed, especially among the Brentwood/Westwood/Hollywood set is the sheer number of kids whose parents are willing to fork over the money for a BMW/Mercedes/Hummer etc. Almost every time I visit a dealership, I have to just shake my head in bewilderment seeing some 17-year old buying an M3 or M5 with Daddy's money. I can't imagine those kids would have received a better welcome than you did, but it sure would be funny to see the reaction if one of them walked into one of your dealerships, M5.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    You deserve an A Plus for that one!

    I was even starting to believe the story...
  • scantyscanty Member Posts: 164
    Who would actually be out looking for a new 7-series? That is one fugly car, and the depreciation hit will give you whiplash.
  • jeffmust2jeffmust2 Member Posts: 811
    I agree - what in the world is BMW thinkin' with their new designs?!

    I have a friend that traded up from her 540 to the new 7 series - it does ride and perform great but no way would that styling grow on me.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    So did you finally talk to the GM of the BMW store? I have a personal rule called the "three feet rule". If a customer or someone that looks like a customer is within three feet of me I always ask if they need assistance or are looking for a particular salesperson. Other things I do that I try to impart on our salesfolks is to "guide" a customer to the service department or parts department, not just point to the general direction. I used to get 1 or 2 sales a month extra by doing this. Customer come in looking for parts I would walk them over and once in the parts department (or service) I would give them one of my cars and say "Here's my card, if you have any questions whatsoever on your vehicle please give me a call" Notice I never said anything about selling them something. Worked like a charm.
                     : )
                     Mackabee
  • m5powerm5power Member Posts: 19
    He was very cordial, very pleasant, very apologetic, and stated that every customer should be greeted on arriving at their dealership. Every customer should also be treated with respect, and fairly, regardless of dress or profession. He also admitted that he has had several complaints lodged against that same salesperson. He told us to call him anytime before we would come out, and that he would introduce us to a good salesman. He made no excuses, and was very direct, and sounded genuinely sorry. He also apologized for our previous 2 experiences there, and promised it would not happen again! - I was pleasantly surprised by his responses!

    I guess my question should be phrased another way- as the GM of a dealership, do you tell your salespeople to act a certain way- ie aggressive, laid-back, etc? For example, do Lexus GM's tell their salespeople to act they way they do? And more so than MB or BMW? Because somehow it seems that Lexus salespeople are more uniformly good-
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    .... Were they Easter eggs ...?

                      Terry ;-)
  • manamalmanamal Member Posts: 426
    Fabrage' (sp?)
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,675
    at first. That's the sad thing about it. I learned long ago to put on jeans with wear spots or a small hole and a clean but old looking shirt. I didn't get attacked nearly as fast when just walking the lot looking at options variations and looking at exterior/interior colors.

    An old family friend stopped his turkey meat delivery truck from his turkey farm next to small town Mercedes dealer in 70s. Had on coveralls he wore to deliver to restaurants in Dayton. Treated like dirt. Went to Cadillac dealer in downtown Dayton shopping next delivery day. Treated like real customer. He picked up the Caddy next week and paid cash.

    Mercedes salesman never knew he missed a cash in pocket type of buyer who wanted a diesel.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    the salespeople SHOULD generally reflect a manager's selling style.
  • bigorange30bigorange30 Member Posts: 1,091
    The Honda and Saturn selling in here seems out of hand. When a salesman pushes his own brand on an internet discussion board, he really loses credibility.

    That being said, Saturn is really not in the same league as a Honda, Toyota or Nissan. I have not heard of Saturns running for 300K-500K miles like I have many Hondas, Toyotas and Nissans. The Accord should last many more years than the Saturn and that is why they are worth the money in the used market. I would not say they overpriced. People want them because they KNOW they will last. Saturns rank poorly in Consumer Reports and only mediocre in JD Powers. The L-series ranks 22nd among the 22 listed on the sedans compared in Consumer Reports.

    http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2003050
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    ..... Don't get all puffy with all that CR stuff, they have been pushing how wonderful the Hyundai's are .. and unless you are living in Mongolia in a tent, then we know that Ain't true .. l.o.l..

                           Terry.
  • bigorange30bigorange30 Member Posts: 1,091
    CR ranks Hyundai as pretty mediocre from what I read. I wouldn't call that pushing them. I always feel that you need to cross reference it with other sources anyway. JD Power and CR pretty much agree on Hyundai being mediocre to subpar.
  • scipio1scipio1 Member Posts: 142
    Of course, perhaps I'm a little biased, but as many advances as Saturn has made from the nadir of American automobile quality control, it's still not a Honda. For work, I usually need a rental car about twice a week, and I've had the chance to drive a bunch of virtually new Saturns.

    They're fine economy cars, but clearly lack the fit, finish and overall "feel" I got from Hondas and Acuras (I know I know, Acura is a higher level brand blah blah). Also, the driving dynamics of the two car brands are quite different.

    The engine response is clearly more "American" in its orientation, less revvy, more torquey - and so that difference is a function of what you like better, but I found the brakes on most of the Saturns I've rented to be materially less confidence-inspiring than those on a Civic.

    The price difference is probably compelling if you're on a strict budget, and perhaps you could argue better value for the price (personally I'd still go with a Civic any day), but I don't buy the "comparable car for much less" argument. The Civic, in my personal opinion, is just a better car.
  • lmp180psulmp180psu Member Posts: 399
    I don't think that Saturn even offers a better value for the price because you are always going to pay MSRP (before any rebates), for inferior products in many peoples'/auto experts' eyes. Regarding Saturn's highly regarded customer service: How hard is it to sell a car when there is only one price which everyone pays. How can people honestly get upset with that, if they feel that the Saturn is the best car for them. Anyone who does ANY research, knows that people can almost always get a price below MSRP, even on luxury brands, with little effort and hassle.

    Hyundai is in fact improving the quality of its products, while still offering the price value advantage they were known for when their products weren't so good. In fact, the Elantra is constantly beating many of the established names in the industry including the Corolla and Civic in some tests. When a 14K "base model" Elantra can place 2nd to the 18K Civic EX in the recent Edmunds economy comparison test that is saying something positive for Hyundai products. In fact, the Saturn Ion placed 8th/last in this same test :)
  • scipio1scipio1 Member Posts: 142
    Well, I think Saturn's one-price policy has great merits. The idea was born from consumer research that clearly pointed out that the average customer hated the current sales process. Not surprising. Most people hate negotiating, and no matter how good the deal ends up being, they will end up with ill feelings about the process.

    You or I might feel differently, but for the average car buyer, the research is clear and inarguable: people hate car buying more than almost any other shopping experience.

    Personally, I like the give and take. But the system as it is works mostly in favor of the dealer, because it allows them to price discriminate (presumably charging according to a buyer's willingness to pay). Even if I negotiate a "great" deal, the system didn't neccesarily work in my favor - I just didn't pay as much as some other people. (What I mean to say is - if Best Buy let you negotiate, there's nothing to indicate you'd do better than you do with fixed pricing, which places competitive burden upon the store. It just ensures that you'll pay less than someone who's not as good at negotiating as you are). Saturn gets great sales marks because it allows people to walk away knowing they didn't pay more than the next guy.

    Personally, I think Saturn's sales practice is a great differentiator. Unfortunately for Saturn, the Internet has shifted a lot of the power in the old relationship towards the customer, making the no-haggle price less important than it was ten years ago.

    I don't think Saturn's problem is a sales format problem, I think it's a product and operating problem. Their cars just aren't quite as good as Honda's or Toyota's yet, and all the money they invested in automated manufacturing equipment reduced their operating flexibility.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Member Posts: 9,332
    ..... C+ vehicles, with A+ service depts ..

              Orange, better get some reading glasses ...

        
                                    Terry.
  • jratcliffejratcliffe Member Posts: 233
    Actually, I think that Hyundai's are a pretty good deal IF you plan on keeping them a long time. With that 10/100 warranty, I'm comfortable about their quality, and they are cheap (wouldn't buy the higher end, I'm talking Elantra-ish things here). If you want to resell one, though, God help you.
  • siggie1siggie1 Member Posts: 56
    Are the auto deals that warehouse clubs, such as Sam's or Costco, offer a scam? Whenever I have tried to use these services I get referred to THE person I am supposed to talk to at the dealership. When I call them to setup an appointment they tell me there is no need for an appointment, they are always at the dealership, just ask for them. I go to the dealership, find THE person and then get shoveled off to some junior salesman. When I ask about the 'special' price I am told that the saleman will give it to me, in direct contradiction to what the brochure from the warehouse club says should happen (the 'special' price is supposed to come from THE person). So I'm asking if anyone knows: are these auto buying services from the warehouse clubs scams? Do you really pay less with a pre-determined price, or do you have to negotiate just like every other auto deal?
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    My understanding is that with these programs there is supposed to be a non-negotiable pricing schedule set up for "club members". But I don't think that price has to be any better than a price you could negotiate.

    These programs typically direct you to the fleet manager who has the authority to sell you the car for X dollars or X dollars over invoice without the back and forth.

    My one experience with this type of program was with the large auto club that is listed first in the phone book. Their program directed me towards their preferred Honda dealer who would give me a no nonsense, direct price on an Ody. Granted, this was in 2000 when they were hot so I was hoping to get MSRP plus wheel locks or a pittance off of MSRP as opposed to the MSRP situation I was encountering elsewhere. Well their no nonsense, direct price for Auto Club members was MSRP plus $3K of required options. Ummmmm, thanks for the price.

    I guess you need to decide.
  • scotty99scotty99 Member Posts: 9
    Just finished buying an '03 Honda Odyssey, and I did all the negotiations by phone with Internet sales managers at local dealerships (Northern NJ). The experience was quick and pleasant with each one, and I quickly arrived at a low price of $1900 under sticker. If I wanted to buy it in texas, I could do $3500 under, but I wanted to pick up the car myself.

    I also called the salesperson I worked with at another dealership near my house, who spent time showing me the car and explaining features. I called him and asked for his best price. He'd only go to 300 under sticker! He lost any shot, and I wonder...as more folks like me go to more folks like those Internet sales managers (aka fleet managers, I presume?), will salespeople go away? Will the whole selling process change?

    I for one hope it does.
  • rerenov8rrerenov8r Member Posts: 380
    --use the internet
    --use a fax machine
    --use the phone
    --belong to a 'club'

    Therefore the MAJORITY of dealers will stick to their old ways...

    BTW I don't consider "auto by telephone" or "warehouse buying clubs" a 'scam' per se BUT they are NOT advertised to consumers/buyers the same way they are to dealers.

    To buyers the promotional brochures/info says "get a low (?the lowest??) price FAST in a NO HASSLE way...". To dealers they say "acquire ready-to buy prospects in a faster cheaper way then traditional advertising methods"...

    The reality is there are many more "modes" of getting cars sold than the old days. The great big inflatable pink gorilla supplanted the flags on every radio antenna...
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Hate to break this to you but most "fleet" or "Internet Managers" are actually **gasp** salespeople.
  • mirthmirth Member Posts: 1,212
    Also, not many people are willing to consider dealers that are more than, say, 20 miles away. Certainly not a dealer 1500 miles away (NJ to TX). The dealer near your house knew that they'd sell the Odyssey anyway for the price they wanted, so why sell to you for less than that?

    Anyway, congrats on your purchase, but I think it'll be a loooonnnnnnggggg while before the car buying experience changes significantly, if at all.
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    i'm glad you got a favorable impression following your recent contact with the Sales Manager at the BMW dealership that treated you and your wife with such great indifference and disrespect.

    You say this though:
    "He told us to call him anytime before we would come out, and that he would introduce us to a good salesman."

    Hmmm, that caught my eye.

    That's real odd. So it sounds like things aren't really changing there much if you have to call ahead and warn them to be treated properly. Doesn't that bother you? It puts a qualifier on just about everything else he said to you. More status quo.

    Maybe you should have called corporate to see if they'd be interested in your experience. Then again, maybe not.

    Per my original post - I meant going to the receptionist was "indirect" because, the receptionist isn't/wasn't really in a position to help you and your wife...honestly, was she? what locate a sales rep that isn't/wasn't busy?

    sorry, i wasn't being direct.

    it seemed to me maybe you were just trying to assert some control in an unresponsive environment; maybe make it obvious everyone was goofing off? maybe complain to someone?

    i wondered why you bothered even sticking around or comming back into the showroom?

    i wondered too, what would have been the harm in just going up to one of these sales reps and introducing yourself?

    my question about it being verboten wasn't directed specifically to you. it was an open-ended question to the sales people here dealing with the general defensiveness people have when visiting a dealership.

    personally, i wouldn't have waited around to see if someone looked up from a card game or what have you, but it might have been a good piece of information to acquire regarding the seriousness and attitude of the people that work there.

    if i were serious about the car or had questions i needed answers to (which i couldn't get elsewhere), i would have picked out a rep and introduced myself.

    if on the otherhand, i just wanted to look or wanted my wife to see a particular vehicle up close without a hasstle, maybe i would have considered myself lucky.

    just my 2 cents.
    regards.
  • scotty99scotty99 Member Posts: 9
    Isellhondas,

    I understand that a "fleet" or "Internet" manager is a salesperson, but I was under the impression that they're compensated differently than the salespeople you'd meet walking in the front door. I was under the impression that fleet managers were salaried, and were bonused on volume rather than on a straight commission per sale. Is that not true?
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    Depends on the dealership.
                 : )
                 Mackbee
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    STILL want to sell you a car, regardless of how they're paid.

    And they're usually more experienced and consistent, like Mackabee - he's the one you have to worry about. Stroll onto his lot with your numbers and you run a good risk of buying something....oh, no, the "I'm just looking" line doesn't work on the good ones!!
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    One thing I have to point out here is the side of the car biz customers don't see day to day. At most dealerships you have 20% of the salespeople doing 80% of the sales. The rest of the 80% is made up of average to below average salespeople and what I like to call "slugs" the ones that struggle every month to make quota and have every excuse in the world for not selling more cars. These are the ones that go from dealership to dealership hoping things will be different and don't see the reason they aren't cutting it stares at them each morning when they're brushing their teeth. The sad part is they are everywhere, high volume stores, high line stores, pay here stores, etc, etc,. If there was a magic way to find out who would make a good to great salesperson the industry would have found it already.
                              : )
                              Mackabee
  • scotty99scotty99 Member Posts: 9
    True, I'm sure it's easier to get hooked if you're on the lot with a really good salesperson, but by phone it's different...all I have to do is say "thank you" and hang up. Anonymity breeds courage...
  • user777user777 Member Posts: 3,341
    thanks for that post.

    however, isn't it true in many professions that there are workers that do much more than their fair share, and then there are others that don't reliably show up? seems to me that 20/80 rule is a much more widely applicable observation.

    i could be wrong. just my impression.

    i can't see an excuse really for the salesman not approaching m5power. i think i understand the points he raises.

    i wonder if it's true that a dealership can keep lots of salespeople around because they are paid on commission?

    in the case of this dealership, wouldn't it be better though to toss the reps ticking off your customers?

    or is it better to keep them and make excuses for them?

    someone in another post indicated that the sales force should reflect the style of the GM.

    ouch.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    The good ones stick around. Depending on the particular store's pay plan, the bad ones may also stick around by just selling the minimum required units. You are correct, there is no excuse for not approaching the customer(s) period.
                     : )
                     Mackabee
  • saber86saber86 Member Posts: 128
    I see many posts in edmunds people posting specs on the engine. My car is better than yours because my car has so many hp vs whatever. Or my car can go 0 to 60 in so many seconds.

    I'm curious. In all the years you have been in the car business, how many customers have actually brought a stop watch to measure how fast a vehicle moves from 0 to 60 mph?
  • pernaperna Member Posts: 521
    rofl, that's a good one. One of my favorites was posted by.. isellhondas, I think (months, if not years ago). One of his customers wanted to test the turning radius on a car, so he pulled it into a grocery store parking lot and proceeded to pull a "Mr. Toad's Wild Ride". He was the passenger on the way back. :)
  • jeffmust2jeffmust2 Member Posts: 811
    ...with the other half being the difficulty in marking off a quarter-mile with a 20' steel tape measure.
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    looking for a used car, and didn't like the way the doors closed/sounded on his old car. I had to open up every car in our used inventory (63 at the time) so he could open and slam the doors.

    I was actually fairly mean about it - I said "after all this, you'd better buy a car from me". He bought a Taurus from me because it sounded the best.

    Whatever.
  • vikdvikd Member Posts: 187
    ...he bought a Taurus??!! I agree...WHATEVER!

    Regards... Vikd
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    My wife has one. For whatever reason, whenever we test drive a car, she has to find a residential street and flip a U-turn. She likes to know the turning radius and whether the car in question will require a 3-point turn to reverse direction. I suppose it will also give her a feel as to how agile a car is in a parking lot.

    It's not like she does this everyday when she drives to/from work, but still ... it was one of the main reasons we leased an Expedition back in '98. Turns out it handled better in that respect than the New Beetle we bought six weeks later (the NB was purely an emotional purchase).
  • zueslewiszueslewis Member Posts: 2,353
    some rightfully odd characters there....
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,737
    Ya don't need a stopwatch... just look her on Edmund's for the number. :)

    I, for one, do look at 0-60 as one of many requirements for a car purchase. but that's because it matters to me. It doesn't matter to everyone.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I have NEVER ONCE had anyone ask me what a car's 0-60 times are.

    Good thing too..I would have no idea and would have to go digging.

    Usually the people who ask the oddball questions are non serious shoppers.
  • blh7068blh7068 Member Posts: 375
    I think this applies more to sporty cars...but those in the market for a car that empahasizes performance usually know or at least have a close estimate what it can do in terms of 0-60 and the 1/4 mile.

    I echo what qbrozen said...I also like to know if the car can get out of its own way. If it's a "dog" (subjective), it will get crossed off my list pretty quickly.
  • jeffmust2jeffmust2 Member Posts: 811
    My wife took a demo drive of a new '01 RX300 late in 2000. I explained before we went that it reportedly had a terrible turning radius and that she ought to test that by making a U turn somewhere along the way.

    She did and, true to form, discovered it turned just a bit tighter than the Queen Mary. Of course we also had to bring the Giant Schnauzers that averaged 100 lbs each.

    Since they fit fine in the back with the 2nd row dropped and the Nav system was God's Gift to the Directionally Challenged...we took it. Rest of the vehicle's been excellent.

    Most Married Men Know What's Coming Department:

    For nearly three years now all I hear is..."How come you didn't know about it's lousy turning radius?"

    Sigh.
  • michaellnomichaellno Member Posts: 4,120
    How did you know my wife grew up in Wyoming?

    jeff: oooohhh yeah, tell me about it :)

    You know, come to think of it, I'm not really sure what *I* focus on during the test drive. Normally, I'm so intoxicated by the new car smell I don't really notice the rest.

    When I test drove the Saturn, I think I was paying attention to the interior ergonomics and the power of the V6 engine. However, 8 months later, I still have trouble remembering that the doggone window switches are next to the transmission lever, not on the drivers door.
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