Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
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Any Questions for a Car Dealer?
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When I'm on the sales desk I like to meet most of the customers who don't buy anything....not to put the screws to them but if they come back on the salespersons day off they have a contact that looks familiar and I am also familiar with the deal.....Thats not to say I won't ask for the sale again...but I'm not tossing any keys on the roof or getting out the thumb screws...
Don't forget....many consumer are programmed to feel they arent getting the "best deal" until they talk to the manager. you would be amazed how many people say 'yes' the minute I come over and ask for the sale and offer another $50 off..haha like I waved a magic wand.
Rich
Our top tier lenders are nearly buying as deep...
But If you can finance me I would be glad to drive this expensive new machine home.
What do you say !
(Posts elsewhere have it that there are STILL '02's around, going for <$14K.)
Also I'm the first of many non car dealers who will be answering your questions.
"I'm planning on buying a used Honda Civic or Accord from a dealership." - Huh? I think you need to first determine your needs in a vehicle. A Civic is not comparable to an Accord. In addition I think there are much better choices for used vehicles than used Hondas for one simple reason. Since demand is high for a used Honda, so are the prices. For a small car I think your best value would be a Geo Prizm (Corolla clone) or Saturn SL2. These vehicles are MANY thousands less than a comparable Civic. As for mid-sized I think the best value on the market right now is a used 2002 Saturn L200. Shop around and you can get one for around 10K. If you must get an import mid-sized then I like the Mazda 626.
"I know that I'm going to need to take the car to a mechanic to have it checked out, but I was wondering how its arranged with the dealership." This is very easy. Any dealership that is good will have no problem with this. Our store gives you a 3 day return option with no reason needed for a used vehicle, but if you wanted to have the vehicle inspected before hand it wouldn't be a problem. You just have to make it a condition of the sale.
"Will they just let me take the car for a day or so for this?" We would if you allowed us to run your credit, provided proof of full coverage auto insurance, and of course a valid drivers license. I asume and good dealer would do something similar. They'll just want to make sure you're not someone trying to steal their vehicle.
"Also, I plan to pay for most of the car with a check from PeopleFirst - an online auto lender. I've heard that some dealerships refuse to accept these - is that true?" Some dealerships do, some don't. I wouldn't personally get hung up on this issue myself, but would focus more on the condition of the vehicle, and the price. Heck if you find the right car and the price is good you can always refinance later if the dealer can't match the people first rate (which they probably can - we can 95% of the time)
"Lastly, I've been researching the offered prices of certified used hondas on the Honda website and I've noticed that there can be up to a $3000 difference between cars that are the same year, model, and mileage. What accounts for this difference?" Most likely the difference is that some dealers are posting a special internet price which leaves little room for negotiation, others are putting a price out there assuming you're going to want to haggle. Then again there is the condition of the vehicle which when buying used is more important than the price.
My suggestion is to
A) Determine what you want to buy based upon your needs. I suggest you rethink why you want a Civic. They are very good vehicles but you're going to pay a premium for a used Honda. A BIG premium that based upon my experience is not justified.
C) Use the net to locate several vehicles that fit your criteria. Call and talk to the internet salesperson and verify the car is there. Go check out a couple and when you find one that you like pull the trigger. Remember its just a car and if they don't want to deal with your pricing then its possible they just own the car for more than they should. Not your problem, move on to the next car and dealer. Remember to make a mechanical inspection a condition of the sale.
D) Report back here and let us know what happened.
E) DONT listen to Rivertown.
P.S. - I sell Saturns so I am completely and totally biased against anything Honda (Except the 250 HP 3.5L V6 that will be propelling the VUE in 04)
P.P.S. - If you want to make your negotiations easier than read Bill's site and it will be obvious to the salesperson you're a semi-pro when you're looking for repaint...
http://www.vauxhallpa.50megs.com/paintwork.html
Just kidding about the Rivertown thing.
I agree with afk_x on 2 points. 1) You need to think about your needs and determine if the size that an Accord provides is something that is important to you. Otherwise, the Civic can be had for a lower price. 2) The price difference is likely do to different conditions of the vehicles as well as the options added. Like he said, many dealers will offering differing degrees of negotiability.
A used Honda IS usually a good car. I won't say it is better than all others because there are bad hondas, too. Just like there are other good cars. BUT, the higher purchase price now translates into a higher selling price later when you want to change cars. So its all relative.
Finally, like others have said, the price differences you see usually have to do with markup. You can find 3 dealers with 3 identical cars all in the same condition and there will be 3 different asking prices. That's just the way it goes. As long as you know what you should pay, it doesn't matter what they ask for the car.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Here are a couple of threads you might wanna read since you're shopping dealers:
lifesomtime "Why would a dealer do this?" Mar 31, 2003 10:43pm
tydenmal "Just bought used certified Honda. I'm already having problems Please..." Mar 26, 2003 10:10am
reddogs "Caveat emptor! or does ethics apply in car buying?" Jul 16, 2003 4:28pm
The bottom line, IMO, is that you've gotta understand every step in a car deal where the dealer can try to cheat you because
if you shop enough you'll run into every possible scam.
I think you're right on, planning to have a mechanic check out your potential new car, even buying from a used car lot. It may be a pain to follow through on that; do it anyway.
It may not work for you for various good reasons, but if you have the time - consider shopping the newspaper want ads. Used car prices are in the toilet, and you could save some real money. Check out the prices, though, on the Real-World Trade-In Values thread - because some sellers just don't believe how badly values have dropped.
P.S. Never, ever believe a car salesman. (Over stated, LOL; but be careful.)
My advise is to simply buy the car you like that will best fit your needs.
I wouldn't buy a Saturn simply to save a few bucks. You will be living with your purchase for several years. No fun driving something you had to "settle for".
If it makes you more comfortable having another mechanic inspect the car, go ahead. On a certified car sold by a dealer with a good reputation I just think it's a waste of money since the car has a warranty anyway.
Most dealers have no problem taking a Peoplefirst CHECK. Just make sure it's not a DRAFT.
But, why bother? Most local banks can and will match their rates. I know I would MUCH rather deal with a local bank.
Lastly...make sure you are comfortable with the dealership and your salesperson. Ask your friends and neighbors for a referral.
If you ever feel uncomfortable....leave!
Good Luck...this can actually be fun!
PF is now owned by Capital One - the credit card bank that advertises on every single TV station known to man.
Generally good advice for you above but do understand - if you refinance your auto loan AFTER the sale, it's going to be at a higher interest rate than the original loan.
Not by a large amount - but higher.
For example, PF's current quote for a loan on a dealer's used vehicle is at 4.09% for 48 months on a $10k loan. At the time of sale. That's a payment of $226/mo and total interest over term of $857.
If you use dealer financing and then refinance the loan with PF down the road, their current quote for the same $10k at 48 mos is 4.75% - $229/mo with total interest of $1000.
Not a big difference in this particular case.
Not everyone will get the rates jeffmust stated.
Just the same with any bank.
Those rates came off the PF website today and they do assume excellent credit and automatic withdrawal of monthly payment from a bank account.
On the negative side, I was going to use PF for a used car purchase from a private party - what a hassle with going to a Mail Boxes Etc to get a notarized title transfer etc etc! I gave that up and went in a different direction.
In sum, it costs virtually nothing to get a PF check for $7500 (their minimum) or more in your hand when you go buy a new or used car from a dealer. Like being pre-approved on a mortgage.
Just compare the set PF interest rate with the dealer's best offer, ask for the OTD purchase price, and you're 95% done with the negotiation.
Or, you could make car shopping a lifetime hobby.
And these guys are right: Don't listen to Rivertown, he's got a chip on his shoulder bigger than the Grand Canyon ~ how sad ...
Terry.
"Never, ever believe a car salesman."
Terry.
Talk about cheap shots!
You guys provide a valuable service in educating buyers on the car business. Focus your energy on that. Do you honestly think that the recent poster about hondas really gives a hoot about your internal bickering? It makes you look petty.
Diversity of opinion is a GOOD THING. Most of us can figure out on our own when garbage is being written. Simply ignore a poster if you disagree..like you will with mine:)
However.
I consider myself well versed in the art of driving cheaply; buying and selling used cars; and the like. A lot of what I know I picked up on these boards, and most of THAT from Terry -- who is nuts, but really knows his stuff.
I don't want to get personal, but not everyone on these boards should be listened to. If you know what I mean.
Where were we? Oh yeah, '99 Civic or thereabouts.
Firstly, every dealership is different about taking a car to a mechanic. Most will just toss you the keys, many will have an employee drive the car to the shop, and you take him back to work. Either should work fine for you.
It had better be a stand-up shop, too, many places feel they HAVE to find fault with the car to give you a bargaining tool... this is nonsense.. you need the true condition and nothing else. But it happens, I speak from experience... once got $$ off a private sale because of a "power steering leak"... on a manual-steering car. Didn't understand what was going on until later, and didn't feel very good about it.
Secondly, don't buy a '99 Civic from a dealership. The market value of these things is so high, you're better off buying a new one. Please understand, I'm a big fan of the '96 thru '00 Civic with the super-duper suspension and all, but the prices on these are nuts. This is not the dealers being crooks or anything; people will flat-out pay too much money for these puppies. You may find a good deal, but I personally gave up on used "Toyondas" a looong time ago. Too darned pricey used; "invoice" deals new, you do the math. You may find a deal you really like, but I think odds are, it'll cost ya.
New '03 Corollas are advertised around here (mid-MI) for ~$14, these will last 15 years if maintained, and hold their value. A '99 Civic with 50k miles is, what, $10? $11k? Forget it.
You want a good '99 and a deal, look for a Chevrolet Prizm. Corolla twins, whose praises have been sung on these boards many times, and $5-6k for a '99 with normal miles. Nothing great, just a pleasant and solid little car that will run until long after you're tired of it. Just as an example, the local Chevy dealer has a silver '01 "certified" with automatic and pwr win/locks etc. for $7,300 advertised. Miles are over 36 but low enough for certification, so let's say 50k. That is not a bad deal; car looks perfect. I don't know how old a Civic has to be to become a $7k car, but my guess would be '98 -- IOW, twice as old. Whenever I think about buying a car, I ask myself: Where am I 3 years from now? A 3-yr-old Honda/Toyota is like money in the bank... a '99 will be 7 years old in 3 years... that will be an "old", cash-only car to just about anyone... big difference.
NO Kias, Hyundais, or Daewoos, please. No weird cars, period... you need a good mechanic also.. ask HIM what he thinks. I like Mazdas, but don't have a shop experienced with them.. no Mazda for me, no thanks... my boys dislike Nissan cars; no Nissans... it's easier finding a new car than a new shop you trust...
Lastly, good job asking before you buy. These boards provide quite an education.
Good luck,
-Mathias
East Lansing, MI
Air Conditioning
Power Steering
Power Windows
Power Door Locks
Tilt Wheel
Cruise Control
AM/FM Stereo
Single Compact Disc
Dual Front Air Bags
That's not $10K or $11K as suggested above. You might not be able to get that price from a dealer though. I would prefer to buy from a private party expecially if you are planning to take it to a mechanic anyway. One other thing is that this market is so depressed with all of the rebates and such. The market is flooded with used cars that people have traded in because they wanted the 0% interest or $5000 cash back. That makes prices go down and is probably not yet reflected in the KBB or Edmunds estimates. I would offer $6K for this kind of car or maybe even less to start a negotiation.
And no, I don't sell cars, much less Hyundai's, just been shopping for my wife a new car and to me the Elantra stacks up nice
My point to this person is simply that if you want a Civic by all means purchase one. If you are getting a Civic because you think its the only good choice out there then its time to think again...
"Never, ever believe a car salesman."
You two are the most unbelievable folks here - you post wild, twisted interpretations of the truth, based on "facts" about the car business that you pulled out of thin air (made up).
You two are the LAST folks who should be telling anyone else WHO to believe.
If you think car biz folks have no value here, then why do you post here? The folks who are here aren't the leisure suit wearing, chain smoking, slicked back hair, white shoed, compulsive liars that are legend in the movies - these guys are the good guys, trying to make their business much more honorable through their own actions.
You should follow their lead by not fabricating stuff that you have no clue about!
The statement could easily be twisted and still be very, very true:
"Never, ever believe a consumer."
Let's all remember afk-x's great statement (paraphrasing):
One path leads to the road to understanding.
The other path leads to rivertown.
:-)
I've seen many a good used car thrashed by some "mechanic" who was bound and determined to earn his inspection fee by nitpicking a good used car to death.
This is especially true with the European makes.
For example, we have a well known Volvo independant nearby that is operated by a very opinionated guy I'll call "Swen".
Swen will nitpick the most well maintained Volvo to death. Even on a low mileage creampuff, he will complile a long list of repairs that he thinks should be done.
Of course, the prospective buyer will believe the worst.
Funny, though...Swen usually has a couple of "customers" who just happen to have another "better" Volvo for sale!
Also, some guys worry about customers coming back on them. If they don't nitpick your prospective new used car, then a month later you have a problem, no matter how minor, many people will thrash the mechanic because "he said it was a good car, now it's broke".
I think that I am realistic that when I purchase a used car (as I always do), that there are always going to be some repairs and maintenance to do. On the other hand, I am not making payments, not paying larger insurance payments, not paying higher registration fees ....
No used car will ever be perfect in the sense of the word.
I once had a lady take a used Mercedes to "Klaus" or whatever his name was. It was a 30,000 mile pampered beauty.
On his list of "reccommended" servises, he noted a cracked fog lamp lens. On that model it was necessary to replace the entire assembly for something like 350.00.
I couldn't see the crack until I got down on my hands and knees. Sure enough, there was a half-inch crack on the edge of one of the lens. It still worked and didn't seem to be leaking.
Naturally, the lady demanded we reduce the price by the amount of the fog lamp replacement plus a couple of other petty items Klaus had noted.
Since we had already priced the car well below market and were basically breaking even, we refused.
She left, spent the day thinking about the car, shopped all over town some more.
She returned the next day only too find out the car had sold three hours after she left.
On the other hand, if I see significant dry rot on the tires, a loose fan belt, I may ask you to fix it or adjust the price.
Then, we are in the realm of negotiation ...
Otherwise I understnad your point.
There's a Klaus in just about every area of the country, they like pounding the fear of Jesus into any and all of Their customers, to keep them and send them someplace else ..
I had a Klaus in my area for 6/7 years. He would slam this vehicle, that vehicle, had a bad comment for every vehicle that rolled thru, Especially the "J" cars .. see, I never knew that Solara's would blow up and lasted only 25K/30k til' the tops blew off and the tranny's gave up til' I met him .. but is was ok for him to charge all the nice, white haired old ladies $440 for an OG sensor on their Mazdas or $950 for their evaporators on their little Mystiques .. but that kinda changed when my customer dropped off a brand new untitled 800 mile Land Cruiser - and it needed a brand new front rack, cuz' the bushings were worn out .. .. Oh yeah, good ol' Klaus, he loved too charm the folks into repairs, whether they needed them or not, he should be just getting out by now .. I wonder if he ever met Bubba, oh well.
Terry.
Just so you know, the reason I settled on a used Honda is because, according to all the research I've done, they seem to be the most reliable used cars out there. None of my friends or family really know anything about cars, so I need something really reliable or I'll be running to a mechanic every time I hear the engine making a strange noise.
If you don't mind another question: Are there any web sites out there that have ratings of mechanics besides Mechan-X? The only mechanic any of my friends recommend very highly is a Honda dealership mechanic. Thanks again!
By the way with ANY vehicle you should have a mechanic look at it when the vehicle starts making a strange noise. A vehicle is like a health problem. What happens when you ignor it? Gets worse...small problem easy to fix becomes large.
If you think Honda makes a bulletproof car think again. Do a search and you'll see THOUSANDS of posts where people complain about the problems with their Hondas.
Honda makes a good car, but so do a lot of other manufacturers these days...
Here, there are 2 major 'dealer rows'. With both, on the side streets nearby there are a bunch of (relatively) small independent service shops with good reps.
Lets not get into a reliability debate here, but give me a break.
You are correct, there are a lot of *good* cars out there and Saturn is one of them.
They are, not, however a Honda.
As far as state inspections go, I'm glad (I guess) that we don't have these in Washington.
They probably keep some junkers off the road which is a good thing.
It sounds like they may have sone "Klaus" types working there!
There is also a certain poster over there bustin' on peoples complains about their "trouble free"
cars when they post a problem.
I think that person also sells them too !
I love the posters responses such as " we NEVER heard of transmission problems, brake troubles, sludge issues, and so on at our shop "!
Have a look and a laugh !
Seems they can spot EVERY little defect too.. when its time to give you the $$$$ numbers on your
trade.
I guess "klaus" works BOTH sides of the fence! LOL !!!!!!!!!!
BTW, 'never, ever' reminds of this bit from "The HMS Pinafore":
I am never known to quail
At the fury of a gale,
And I'm never, never sick at sea!
What, never?
No, never!
What, never?
Hardly ever!
He's hardly ever sick at sea!
Then give three cheers, and one cheer more,
For the hardy Captain of the Pinafore!
this is getting off topic and I guess I'm partially to blame. SO....
I think a person should simply buy what they like and can afford. Yes, there are LOTS of good cars out there.
: )
Mackabee
No used car is perfect; but it's as dumb to shop to save $50 (or $500 or $5K) as it is to have the car checked out by a mechanic. Life's too short for that kind of messing around; and, besides, some makes never, ever, break down or wear out once the dealer's Klaus has done his thing. Thus, the mark-up on a used car lot is legit compensation for 'recon'. (No, 'recon' doesn't mean 'recondition' or 'con you another time'. It means 'resolve every conceivable occurring negative'.)
Most consumers know nothing about either.