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who can top THAT?
On the other hand, sales of the Mercedes Benz S-Class decreased 13.3% since January 2005.
As a side note, sales of the E60 were up a whopping 42.8% since January 2005!
The BMW success story continues to unfold, thanks in no small part to Chris Bangle and his amazing designs.
If they want to compete with Maserati and Bentley though, the 4.2L AJ-V8 has to go. Jaguars will need to come standard with a minimum of 400 horses, and offer a lot more than that. The "XJ12" name also needs to come back. A V8 with a blower on it is just not the same.
Their interior quality also needs to get about 5000% better. The '07 XK is a definite step in the right direction, but they'll need to do better than that to best the Quattroporte, S600, etc.
TagMan
And my #2, the sales numbers for Mercedes-Benz last month: January January Monthly YTD YTD Yearly
Model '06 '05 % 2006 2005 %
C-CLASS 3,098 3,548 -12.7% 3,098 3,548 -12.7%
E-CLASS 2,465 2,725 -9.5% 2,465 2,725 -9.5%
S-CLASS 923 1,064 -13.3% 923 1,064 -13.3%
CL-CLASS 68 135 -49.6% 68 135 -49.6%
SL-CLASS 528 677 -22.0% 528 677 -22.0%
CLK-CLASS 1,126 1,225 -8.1% 1,126 1,225 -8.1%
SLK-CLASS 619 881 -29.7% 619 881 -29.7%
CLS-CLASS 901 778 15.8% 901 778 15.8%
R-CLASS 686 n/a n/a 686 n/a n/a
M-CLASS 1,962 980 100.2% 1,962 980 100.2%
G-CLASS 93 88 5.7% 93 88 5.7%
GRAND TOTAL 12,469 12,101 3.0% 12,469 12,101 3.0%
Call me crazy, but I see a trend. Or a motif? :confuse:
I like the M-Class' me-too styling, but when the Johnny-Come-Lately is carryin' the ball for the ENTIRE BRAND, there is no joy in Benzville!
DrFill
They will eventually work their way to better times with newer and even better products. Heck, they have to. (A wild card could be their diesels, if fuel prices go crazy, and if they could supply enough of the engines, but that's just a long shot.) Not the best numbers, that's for sure.
TagMan
Somehow I think that the germancarfans will find a way to profess happiness with those numbers. Like, MB showed an increase over January of last year.
I guess the M-Class accounted for 982 units of the total MB brand's 368 unit increase.
Ummmm...maybe SUVs do count for something!
tagman,
I wouldn't worry about those sales figures, Mercedes always has a slow Jan and Feb and it every years this is always seen as some type of crisis. Nothing more than hype from the Lexus camp because year after year MB's sales pick up dramatically in the spring/summer months on their way to putting MB ahead of the previous year's totals.
M
Seperately from the stats, don't you agree that the line-up needs some quicker freshening, and maybe even a little "housekeeping" in a couple of spots?
As much as I've said negatively about the current CLK before its facelift and the Maybach, you of all people should know I wouldn't cut a truly ugly Benz product a break because it is a Benz. Did you forget this? If I truly thought the S-Class was ugly I'd be the first to say it like I did with the Maybach and 2003-2005 CLK320.
M
Sure. A new C-Class and a facelifted E-Class would help a lot. BMW and Lexus have the advantage of having newer sedans in each category, especially Lexus. As DrFill points out all of Lexus' 4-doors are new for either the 2006 or 2007 model year. That will likely translate into breathtaking sales numbers for Lexus in 2006 and 2007, but they'll also be under the gun to refresh and re-design all 4 of their sedans around the same time again in 5-6 years. BMW has a similar situation with their oldest sedan being around from "only" 2002, while the outgoing S-Class goes back to 1999. What other changes do you think they should make? This will be a big year for MB even without and all new E or C-Class. Everything else either gets a facelift or new engines that will account for a better than average (for the last few years) sales gain over 2005 IMO.
M
Luxury cars are selling! In January Lexus cars were up 36.9%, Cadillac cars up 33.4% and BMW cars up 23%.
Truck sales for Lexus, Cadillaac and BMW were weak in January.
But technically there's a weakness in your argument as it that means Lexus just went through the period you're theorizing about in the future (correctly in all likelihood) with very healthy growth. In truth the real answer continues to be something that MB missed - the SUV phase. Lexus can much better balance out its line-up changes because of the the vehicles that many here so often want to exclude - SUV's. Stale cars - new suv's; stale SUV's - new cars; plus a strong wildcard - hybrids. In the US they have much better balance than MB right now and it shows clearly in the sales numbers and what happens when models go stale. My instinct also tells me that if Lexus rolls out a minivan it will do a lot better than the R-class. The issue for them though is the fear that it might cannibalize the RX.
The Mercedes diesels are still lurking, and could be big.
Regarding the R . . . it is a sitting duck. (And gives MB a bad look).
The words out of my mouth!
Lexus knows the market, a lot better than Mercedes does.
Besides juicing up this forum, I also posted those numbers to show a general trend. At Lexus, cars were down in 2004, but SUVs were up big! New record.
In 2005, cars were up big, SUVs stayed strong, but leveled off. New record.
When everything but one vehicle is taking a dive, that says somethin'.
Ford sold "only" 52k F-series! But Fusion AND Mustang AND 500 were up. You can be more optimistic.
The facts, the numbers say more than I can about where a couple of companies are headed. Mercedes will ALWAYS be Mercedes, but I see someone movin' towards the Head of the table, and someone who is scouting out a Booster Chair.
DrFill
Lexus knows the market, a lot better than Mercedes does.
never chalk up experience . . . who has more?
I'm still holding out hope the Lexus HPX concept will get on in 2008. That would be HOT! Sore it in NY in 2004. Unreal!! :shades: Please make it!
DrFill
DrFill
In the SUV market - Lexus (3 touchdown favorite when they meet on the field)
That has $50-55k all over it!
Maybe they don't want to add another SUV, even a CUV, to prevent overkill.
DrFill
Also, the RX isn't stale anymore. Along with the popular RX400h, the RX350 was just released. It replaces the RX330 for the 2007 model year and it has 270 horsepower (the same as the LX470's V8!).
M
Well for one I think the SUV boom is over, it will be all about maintaining at this point. Yeah the Germans missed it in the past, heck Audi is just now introducing a SUV nearly 9 years after Mercedes did. Whenever a brand re-designs all of their sedans in a year or so their sales are going to shoot through the roof, if that is the position then yeah they are in better shape than MB. I think I said just that in my post earlier tonight.
M
M
If you sense that it is a success, please explain, because I'm hating it right about now, and I wish it gone.
TagMan
R class sales was brisk in December when they had that $499/mo lease deal. Cheapened to the price level of a Lexus IS, R (one letter position from S) is not a bad deal. The deal was removed on the website since Jan 1st, now we know R class sales in January crashed. hmm . . . sounds like typical consumer response to old GM tricks: hold onto the money till there's heavy discounts.
You're right Mercedes is known for those those things, all except for the reliability part. I really think they're trying to fix this, but once the word gets out it takes years to change it back in the right direction. Those who have no experience with this, but live to hype it up don't help either.
M
No slower than last year when all this false gloom and doom was touted then.
I agree the sale did move them better in Dec, but the R's sales had been steadily gaining since the mid-Sept intro. I don't see it as a failure, yet.
M
Talking about the current XJ, I'm not sure where the pricing should go. Is it still the '80s Jags that are killing the market value of a two year old XJ? Or does the market just not believe the car is worth the retail price Jaguar is asking?
As a longer term strategy, I just dont think that trying to sell XJs in the $50-70K range can work, and I think that is the conclusion that the PAG management has come to. Ford has resources, but they have a lot on their plate to deal with. Jaguar is only a small part of that. In contrast, BMW, Mercedes, and Lexus can throw their full might behind their flagships, and redesign them every six to seven years. Even the beleaguered VWAG has managed to give Audi a lot more attention than Jag has been getting from Ford.
I think the smarter way to go is to let the LS460, S450, 750, and A8 4.2 duke it out on their own.
The M was off, but not so derailed. And consider how long it took to dial it in. The R has a LONG slow road ahead, doesn't it?
M
If they make real changes in engine/equipment for 2007 and it still doesn't sell, then yes.
M
I agree the sale did move them better in Dec, but the R's sales had been steadily gaining since the mid-Sept intro. I don't see it as a failure, yet
R-class experienced massive price erosion between Sep and Dec. MB tried to stem the subsidy in January, and sales fell off the cliff. That is bad. There is never doubt that at a low enough price point, any car can be "sold" or simply given away; the whole point of having a High End Luxury Marque is to charge premium. R class proves to be unable to sell without massive margin squeeze.
As well they should, both have newer lineups, especially their sedans. What is the point here other than to just repeat the same things over and over? We all know this.
R-Class - Been there said that, dead horse being beaten.
M
You may be very right on that one. That's enough reason right there to change demographics and climb into an entirely different ring.
As far as Lexus and BMW, if Mercedes had redone all of their sedans in such a short period of time they'd likely see a similar sales increase also. So easy to neglect the details for Lexus and BMW's success and paint the worst possible picture for Mercedes. I guess I should expect no less here.
M
Now that it is being taken seriously it will be solved.
The 'Mercedes break down all the time' echo chamber will keep the story alive as long as possible.
Improvements in initial quality should show up first, but that's not really the same thing. I remember how Schrempp was saying that they were going to add more Quality Control inspectors at the end of the production line, when everyone with half a brain knew that the problems went deeper than that. MB's IQS improved in '04 and '05 compared to '03, so although not the same thing, that doesn't augur well for its dependability ratings until the June 2007 study comes out.
Until then, anecdotal evidence will hold more sway, and we all know that unhappy owners are more vocal than happy owners. But Merc, please don't try to blame Japanese car fans for MB's lost reputation for reliability; MB squandered that on its own! :sick:
TagMan