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Tag, I don't think that's correct. I think that for quite a few years, the LS430 has had an hp and 0-60 advantage over the S430. I haven't gone back and checked so I'm not 100% sure, though.
So far there are no CD/JD Power stats on the Q7 but it may end up earning the same number of CR black holes earned by its Touareg cousin. I have much more confidence in the various cars Audis sell(not all of them) than their Q7.
I also have confidence about the future reliability of my 5 series wagon(the 3.0l has passed the test of time with great success). But I am a bit worried about the reliability of the untestsed twin turbo 3 series. Despite my concern I cant resist that car and I will soon be visiting my dealer to make a deal.
German car fans in the past few decades have found hp as not the only important factor in a performance car.
BMW's history of being an hp laggard is decades old(at least BMWs without the M initial). And despite this history BMW has always been referred to as a manufacturer of performance cars.
Currently BMW's history is being re-written with the new BMW335i since this will be the first BMW that I can remember that has an hp level that is equivalent to the top contenders in its segment (without mentioning the 335i's superior gobs of torque).
I think future models of the 5 and 7 series will experience a major inflation in HP and will lose their stigma of being HP laggards.
I will drive the Acura when it comes out next month.
I wouldn't touch the Q7. :lemon:
Well Merc you know the old saying: "Never ever say never".
Apparently the sister company of MB will likely be introducing a 4 door convertible in the form of the next generation Chrysler 300C. If there is a 4 door convertible Chrysler than why not a 4 door convertible S Class Benz?
Also notice that the link below provides no mention whatsoever of platform sharing between the future LX platform of the 300C and the MB E Class.
I strongly believe the rumors of increased platform sharing between the future 300C and the E Class are highly unlikely.
2010 Chrysler 300C Convertible
At this point, that's how I see it.
And remember, all S-Class vehicles are long wheelbase, BTW.
TagMan
Here is a picture of the FAW Hongqi (Red Flag) HQ3 :
Chinese carmaker First Auto Works (FAW) is demonstrating a sedan that drives itself. Equipped with two cameras hooked up to a computer guidance system of some sort, the FAW Hongqi (Red Flag) HQ3 prototype is designed to navigate its way through streets, avoiding obstacles and stopping at traffic signals.
FAW demonstrated the car at the Northeast Asia Investment and Trade Expo, where it was limited to a snail-pace 37 mph, though the automaker claims it could safely operate at speeds up to 93 mph
Here is my dire warning: Once you allow yourself to buy a car that electronically self parks itself then what will stop you from buying a future car that will self drive itself? If this temptation is prevalent among car buyers then driving enthusiasts will become nothing more than relics of the past ( in other words as extinct as a Tasmanian Tiger)
link title
TagMan
This self-drive idea is spreading like a contagious disease.
Folks, no car on inception is a safe bet. The Q7 has been a strong seller in Europe(number 1 in sales, handidly beating the GL(4-1), X, and various Euro models) and is off to a great start in the States, boosting Audi's sales over 41%, along with the A4. For sure that number will only grow when the introduce they V-6 variant as you're reading this and the hi-po V10 and V12 TDI.
The Q7 doesn't appear to have all of the inherit electrical probs that the T'regg/Cayenne has. If the models were such lemons, then how would Porsche stay in the top 3 of all out reliability with the Cayenne being such a popular vehicle? You can't have it both ways. And if you think the Q7 is a lemon, then the Porsche must be a lemon with a little vinegar on it because this thing is loaded with way more stuff than it's cousins, altho the Audi is only loosely based on them.
In summation, if I listened to all of the ranting and disgruntled posters here, I would've never bought an MB or Audi. But all of my cars have served me as promised. Even the supposed pathetic A8 has been one of the most reliable cars that we've ever owned. Some people who own a Lexus, Toyota, Infiniti, or Acura don't get in their cars everyday and it works like a gem. Read the posts, and you'll find out....
I wouldn't hesitate to buy a 1st year Lexus model, based on that historical record. With Acura the 1st-year record isn't as good, but is acceptable and with the MDX I might buy a 1st year model if I view it as sufficiently attractive vs the competition. But with a German model, because of history I would wait to read annecdotal evidence and large-scale survey data re reliability, since reliability is a concern of mine. On the German side, I don't think a Q7 or GL are sufficiently reliable for me, though an S might be.
Could be a deal-breaker.
The reviewers have been raving-comparing it to Porsche and BMW in handling.
Haven't had a Japanese vehicle since my 1983 Mazda 626.
Getting tired of seeing that same old BMW dash after 13 years.
But the wood has been real!
I don't think we'll see a six-cylinder 7 at least until the next model, which BMW has promised to spice things up for the American market. The return of the six-cylinder model may be on contention that MB releases the S350... But who knows with BMW as they operate under a model of secrecy. Who saw the twin-turbo coming last year.... nobody.
Disagree.
Particularly for an SUV, I think this current MDX meets the criteria . . . fake wood and all.
TagMan
A cruise ship-sized steering wheel.
No front passenger power lumbar.
No power liftgate unless ordering the rear entertainment package.
However, aside from the "wood" and large steering wheel, coming from BMW, I have to say I like the interior quite a bit.
Looking forward to sitting in one.
On the other hand, wood trim isn't an overwhelming portion of the buying decision.
If BMW had a Honda/Acura nav system, their would be nothing to complain about.
What did we all do for so many years without one?
I can easily plan my trips on the internet in advance.
I must admit, however, that there have been occasions when I was told to go North and it should have been South.
What is a RDX? A CRV with a blazer and track pants.
What is a TL? An Accord with a suede jacket and a Nike sweat shirt.
I can go on and on like this for every single Acura product. Kudos for Lexus and Infiniti for at least having some models with a distinctive platform.
The only Japanese luxury SUV I admire is the Infiniti FX with its distinctive platform that is not shared with a Nissan.
And in order to pre-empt an attack on my post I would like to state the obvious: Yes my logic applies equally to German SUVs like the Q7 and Cayenne sharing a platform with a VW. If I had to choose a German luxury SUV I would buy either a BMW X5 or a MB ML whose platforms are not shared with a mainstream manufacturer.
Nissan Murano
The FX uses the RWD platform shared by the Infiniti G and M.
Although I must admit there is somewhat of a family resemblance between the FX and Murano.
But I suppose you are correct, there is no Nissan with RWD that shares the FX platform.
Yes, the S450 will represent the value leader for the S-Class, but how will that value stack up agains the LS460 is the concern.
M
M
And my god are they ugly, especially the CRV. The RDX looks like some sort of British bulldog, short, fat and stubby.
Until LG posted something about the RL using the Accord platform I never made the connection between the two. Honda uses a variation of the Accord platform for darn near everything!!! Only the Civic platform is truly any different it seems.
M
Nope. Nissan's Front-midship architecture is strictly rear or AWD on the ATTESA E-TS cars. The Altima and its ilk are on Nissan's "D" platform.
The CL63 AMG, my gawd it is gorgeous!
M
Well, like the RX, the MDX came first. The next generation Pilot won't get the power, or the trick AWD system. It's not like Honda is trying to pull a fast one, if the upgrades aren't worth it, buy a Pilot.
Link
M
Oh I can defintely see the day when the car will remind you when the lease is up and even play a clip of the car you should replace it with via the nav screen. If BMW's can call the dealer's service department on their own and link you to an adviser then this is the next logical step.
M
Edmunds latest article on the RDX says that it shares hardly anything with the CRV as it's drive trains are completely different.
It's great that Lexus shares very little of their platforms, who cares they all look alike. Every time I see a new ES, or the back of an Avalon, I think I've spotted a new LS test mule.
Like the Lexus SUV's compared to their Toyota counterparts.
In the case of the MDX, it is quieter, better handling, allows for the simultaneous combination of one the best nav systems AND multi-media video entertainment, which is not available on the Pilot, more luxurious and more features (auto lights, trip computer, etc.).
It is my understanding that the brand new '07 MDX, which handles so remarkably that it was reported that it's as though God himself has His hand guiding the vehicle, will have no Honda counterpart for now.
The '07 Acura MDX reviews so far are darn near as good as any SUV reviews could get, IMO.
TagMan
Yes, the S450 will represent the value leader for the S-Class, but how will that value stack up agains the LS460 is the concern.
Confused? Sorry.
Just consider a prime reason for choosing the LS460 over the S550. You've said it yourself . . . it's largely the price. Not the only reason, but a large one.
Now enter the S450, with a lower price, and voila, we have a "value" S-Class model that is closer to the LS460 price. LS buyers have historically been more than willing to give up serious horsepower and handling, as you and I and others have argued for a long time, so it stands to reason that even if the S450 has less hp than the LS, it won't matter that much. It'll be about the price/feature/prestige combination.
The prestige/status as well as styling of the S450 will also be a contributing factor in favor of the S-Class.
To get that wonderful S-Class for a price that comes closer to the LS, will be a "value" for the Mercedes S450. With the new S-Class being so desireable, the more affordable S450 should prove to be a viable contender, IMO.
TagMan
If it is .5 seconds slower to 60 but hits it in 6.0, that's a quick ride. By offering AWD and if the price is within 7-10K of the LS, I think they will have a winner. In addition, they can always negate the price difference even further with strong leases. The big key for them is quality. I think they helped Lexus big time by "flunking" so many of the quality studies. If they get that handled, they can score big or should I say bigger.
The car is striking to look at, has a fantastic interior and has the presence that says, "ultimate". Just one guys opinion. (hey I drive an LS by the way)
The Q7 is really unique in that the chassis had to be fortified and strectched to accomodate a 3rd row. In the process, the Q7 gained 67% more stiffness against bending and 37% more ridgidity, all to make up one very suprisingly entertaining ride.
This CL63 looks leaps and bounds over the W220- CL65 of last year. Gone is the conservative styling. Gone are the awkward-looking exterior dimensions.
But as they say with MB big coupes, "it's nice to have a dream"0 as they're so unattainable, especially the hi-po AMG's.
I don't think the LS upped their hp in order to retain existing customers but to attract new ones.
I would venture to say if Lexus had a 200hp V8 they would still retain their existing base (ok maybe 250hp);so a competitor needs to create a better “Lexus”...and the definition for Lexus doesn't include high hp or performance.
All generalizations of course.
OK then we are just going to have to defer this bet to some time in 2010. But if I lose I am not going to eat any brochure (some brochures are so big that swallowing one could be fatal).