Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
If you want to experience a real Ultra Luxury that is not that much more expensive then the RL..Go drive a Lexus LS430 (any yr. 01-05) YOU WILL NOTICE THE DIFFERENCE
Same thing with S Class Mercedes but they are much more expensive.
the LS430 the time span is 10 years for 4 Lexus LS type cars.
During these 10 years absolutely nothing has gone
wrong with any of the cars. Not even a light bulb.
When talking about whose best and whose second best consider where and how they are built and the exchange rate.
Thousands of Turkish and Greek workers make the
Mercedes and BMWs. The 10 Lexus models are made by 66 persons - yes thousands against 66. Taraha is the most advanced auto manufacturing plant on the planet, and at least 5 years ahead of the next plant which is probably Nissan.
So when it comes right down to it, the Lexus is much better built than BMW or MB or any other Euro car. Plus it costs much less - robots don't earn wages!!!!
And 66 workers.. That is correct.. Every Lexus is made by the same 66 people...
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
66 workers make about a half-million Lexus and simlarly TOyota badged vehicles(Celsior, SOarer, Aristo, WIndom, Harrier). Man that's efficient, although I think the numbers of factory line workers needed to build these products are alot lot higher.
Bob Bingham
Mike Boltz
Jonathan Bredenkamp
Darin Buscaglia
Ryan Culver
Debbie Daniel
Sean Darcy
Steve Ellsworth
Ward Fulcher
Melanie Gagnon
Brian Gardiner
David Garibay
Cathy Gottardi
Steve Holdaway
Dion Hyland
Rich Jackson
Bruce Laing
Mel Melliza
Darrell Packard, Jr.
Clint Sanders
Gary 'Smitty' Schmidt
Dan Scott
Leslie Siegel
Gregor Stewart
John Sylvester
Patti Totten
Don Yocum
John Zaninovich
So, there!!
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
Lexus LS doesn't rattle and squeak and make noises...Perhaps your small group of friends with Lexus have other then the LS...they are closer to what you would call a "REAL CAR"
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
I know you are not trashing the car but I don't think you really understand it is not like any other CAR..
I remember the first time I drove one it was very different...(that was in 91 or 92) I couldn't afford it then but eventually got lucky and could afford whatever I wanted I Drove a BMW 7 Series and realized I didn't want a drivers car I wanted pure Luxury...Then I tried a Mercedes S class and loved it I really liked the ride, the look and the quiet....Then I remembered Lexus LS and gave it a try it is a different experience to own and drive one.
PS...Lexus has give me the ES, GS, and several different SUV. as lowners over the years when I have gone in for service...THEY ARE nice but PRETTY MUCH LIKE OTHER CARS IN MY MIND...IT is just the LS that I find so awesome.
http://www.embedded.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=18401442
That being said, I do sincerely feel that Lexus is a much more dependable car than most any other, especially BMW, but I just think that comparison is a little rigged.
In fact an earlier post had it partly right, things do wear out. However wear out rate varies over time and with manufacturer.
In addition, most manufactured machines go through a break-in period often called the 'infant mortality' interval. Results for this interval are captured in statistically significant surveys by folks like JDPowers in their IQS.
The resulting overall problem arrival rate is a "bath tub" shaped curve, where problems are high at the beginning, then they experience failures at a more or less lower rate during the opearational lifetime, followed by an increasing uptick in the failure rate near 'end of life'. In service failure rates are captured by JDP and CR etc. for most major brands.
What's different about Lexus, particularly the LS, is that it's infant mortality failure rate is so much smaller than anyone else and it's in-service rate is also the lowest in industry. The Lexus bath tub is very shallow. It starts low, stays shallow. The European car companies own the deepest tubs. They start high, stay full and overflow at the end.
As a result of high quality, highly durable components and subsystems, the Lexus LS in-service length is very long and therefore very low cost to owners.
Lexus strategy pays off hansomely for Toyota in profitability, especially in very, very low warranty costs.
Michael - No question the LS430 is super special. It, the LX and the SC are the elite of Lexus. The GX470 - which I have - is a just miss in that elite circle but it is an excellent SUV nonetheless. The GS430 is a heck of a car but after that I do find the GS300, ES and RX more ordinary, particularly the ES and the old RX. But the new RX has jumped a lot and is not far from that elite circle. Never drove the IS so I can't say anything about it. The LX is the SUV version of the LS. I could live without the LX, but the LS has me hooked forever unless they screw it up at some point. For me - it's a must have car. I also agree with you on the S500 - a great luxury car that would be the car I'd be in if Lexus wasn't around. But its poor reliability would drive me nuts.
oac "Lexus LS" Dec 6, 2004 9:01pm
For a relatively high mileage car (95K miles) and having no problems to report, is a remarkable feat. Nothing. NADA.... I still cannot hear the engine while driving with the music off. BTW, the build date of my LS is 09/1998, and the delivery date was 11/1998. Six years and 95K miles and it drives like it just rolled off the factory floor. I haven't owned many luxury cars, but I doubt if there is ANY car out there that can beat the LS in pure reliability. Isn't that a good quality for any luxury car ?
I've got to find out what's going on with OUR 2007 model. I made a service appointment on my car (14K more perfect miles) and my sales guy told me a 5.0 liter and a hybrid version of it are what is coming. AWD - he doesn't know yet, but given your location you probably couldn't care less any way. But definitely a complete revision of the styling in line with a stretched LFS look. I'll keep you posted. By the way he hadn't heard anything about the HPX.
As I said, I feel it is a misrepresentation just for the "shock" factor.
Only one thing I am dying to clarify. Will the new LS be an MY 06 release or an MY 07 ? And when is a likely date for its availability here in the US ? Seemed like Lexus is keeping info on this redesign pretty tight to their chest.
And they gotta build that HPX ! Would make so much sense and much much $$$ for Lexus, imo.
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.php?file=car.php&carnum=- - 1653
BUT, will this car ever hit the streets of NY or LA ???
;-)
Hey - If BMW and Porsche guys like you get hooked why wouldn't you think it'd be the same for guys with different preferences. Lexus hits their mark every bit as perfect as BMW and Porsche hit theirs.
You know what is in Bismarck don't you? Another classic episode.
Raccoon Cemetery, Bismarck ND
Lexus hasn't given us any reason to criticize yet - unless you consider a minor default in the current nav system and the failure of the lights to shut off if you leave a door ajar. But some of our best people are already working on this - see the LS board. Actually the cars are getting better, with tighter handling and no sacrifice of ride quality, and reliability that is through the roof. Hard to even think of moving away from something so perfect because you just know you'll be damned if you do.
I test drove the LS430 and GS430 side by side in May and decided on the GS430. Reasons: It was $10,000 less, and with its 235/45/17 inch summer tires, it handled better although the LS was smoother over bumps. And finally, I felt the GS430 projected a sportier image than the LS. I'm 56 years old and not yet ready to move into a car that seems suited for the senior citizens.
The GS has been bullet proof in reliability so far. My only regret is that I don't have time to drive it more often, only 4,000 miles on it. The V8 is so quiet and potent. The feedback from the steering wheel is perfect for me. I'm still closer to the luxury mode than the sport mode so I like the silent, refined cabin.
Compared to my BMW328 the GS430 is more confidence inspiring regarding reliability. I still think the day will come when I purchase an LS430 but that may have to wait until I reach 60.
Bob
Malverne,NY
Yes, the ends of the bathtub (which is a fairly common way of looking at failure rates) measure different kinds of failures, but in many ways they're the same as they both spring from the same root cause. First to qualify myself, I'm an engineer with some familiarity with the subject. 95% of the results of the short or long-term JD Powers surveys were determined before the first piece of metal was bent.
If you remove external factors such as the owners driving habits and the care he has taken, both ends of the bathtub trace back to before the car was built in the reliability vs cost decisions made, and in the MMT (manufacturing methods and technologies)used to build the car.
Higher specifications, increased component testing and an aggressive QC program lead to lower initial failure rates. These same factors as well as a better fit in manufacturing (tighter tolerances from robots vs humans in this case)reduce wear and lead to fewer problems years downstream. Both numbers reflect the builders commitment in design and manufacturing to get a more reliable product. Lexus is relentless in this area, and they can afford to be (it does cost big bucks). As ljflx points out fairly often, with a $12B war chest you can do some remarkable things.
Having said all this, mistakes still happen. Rather than roll the dice, Lexus preferred to replace thousands of transmissions (the early 2004 LS problem) and give owners $ 200 worth of gas for the inconvenience of bringing the car in and driving a new Lexus loaner for a day before a failure rather than wait and see how many actually developed a problem. Big bucks decision, but easily embraced within their philosophy. If querried I wouldn't even count that as a problem in my survey response unless the transmission actually failed when I had the car.
Like Len said, we have a car that satisfies our needs and makes us happy campers; nothing wrong with that, right ?
Oac... that's precisely what I meant. But don't they offer cappucino and espresso when you bring your car in for Lexus service?
You know these forums sure are great. They allow a man to let go a little... ya know... have some good clean fun. (We're really beating this Honeymooner stuff to death ;-)
Thanks for the information. I agree that Lexus is top tier in quality production. I know no other auto maker that serves the customer so well (a sad state of affairs IMO). Perhaps they can goad some other companies to start standing behind their products.
Best wishes.
Honeymooners - time to get out the dvd collection and find the Christmas episode with the bowling bag ball and uncle Leo. Hey did Seinfeld copy that guy??
Hpowders - absolutely correct.
What possessed you to do the infamous thing: go from a Bimmer to a Lex ???? Designman may have a hissy fit seeing another Bimmer lover bite the dust and go Lexus. J/K of course.
As Vince Lombardi (the great Green Bay Packers coach) would put it: "What the hell is going on here ?"
Seriously, hpowders, any specific reasons why you'd want an LS over a Bimmer, besides the obvious ones ?
Curious to know....
You are dead set on the LS coming from a Bimmer huh - which BMW? Oh, oh - is designman next??
Now if you guys promise that you are not shills ;-) and if the next LS turns out to be a handsome piece, I will consider it. But don’t forget, I now own what some consider to be the best sedan that was ever made so the standards are high here
“To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.”
from the poem In Flanders Fields by John McRae
I have a 2002 330i sedan with every intention of moving up to a 530i this August. I have heard so many complaints about the new 5 series that the game plan had to be changed. BMW has let me down by over-complicating their new vehicles. Too many horror stories of idrive failures literally shutting down the car. When you pay 50-55k, a car should be exceptionally reliable. We're not talking about a Kia here! I have been a BMW man since 1993. It's time for a change. Very much looking forward to the LS430 next summer.
As the LS forum frequenters already know, I recently bought an '05 LS. You can see from my profile that over the past 30 years I have owned (in order) Volvo, Audi, BMW 735, and most recently 2 MB E320s. I obvious appreciate the benefits of the German approach to fine cars. So why did I just switch to an LS?
Frankly, after rejecting the new BMW based on everyone I know having one ending up hating the i-Drive, I started off thinking I would be making a decision between another new E or jumping up to an S430 (likely a slightly used Starmark). That's when I started researching and found that the anecdotal info I had heard about the reliability of recent MBs was not just the loudness of a few complainers, but statistically meaningful data. Also, the MB dealer I had been using for the last 10 years had expanded a couple of years ago, and the service IMO had really suffered ever since. So I quickly decided that my practice of buying a great car and holding it for a long time (beyond any warranty) didn't make sense anymore with an MB, especially a used S class.
Pricing of a gussied up E came out the same as the deal I could cut on a similarly equipped LS. In a head-to-head comparison, the E just didn't stand up. Start with reliability, then compare seating comfort, then roominess of the rear passenger compartment (I continuously got complaints when i had to put 3 business associates in the back of my E). Handling of the E was admittedly a bit more "fun", but once I drove an LS with 18" wheels and low profile tires, the difference was really minimal at anything close to legal speeds. On the Autobahn, I would admittedly take the MB; but you know what, I can't get to the Autobahn from my house (by car at least).
Finally, as to styling, I still have a '98 E in my garage next to the LS, both the exact same color combo (black exterior, beige interior). The rear of the LS is so obviously a copy of the E that it is almost funny. The interior coloring of the LS is also an exact copy of the two-tone beige of the E. I love the simple beauty of the body of the E; and although the LS emulates it, the E just looks better. In comparison, the LS almost looks like someone took an old style E and pumped it up until the proportions were just slightly out of kilter.
Nevertheless, the LS is an overall nice looking car, just not as nice as the old E that it was clearly patterned after. Conservatively attractive yes; head-turning no. IMO, the only thing that keeps it from looking too conservative is the new 18" alloy wheels.
Bottom line: it is hard to talk about "value" when you are paying over $50,000 for a piece of machinery that serves the same function as another piece of decent machinery that can be bought for less than half that amount. But in reality, the less than $56K I paid for an LS with Navigation and every other techno toy that I could conceive of ever wanting, really is a great value. I started buying BMWs and MBs in 1987 with the expectation of paying a lot of money up front but having minimal future hassles, a class experience at the dealership, and a long term holding period of a fine piece of equipment. As far as I can tell, only Lexus delivers that now. Hopefully, someday soon the Germans, the Brits, and the Americans will be able to do it again as well. Yep, I am another Lexus convert- at least for now.
I feel the same way although I am willing to sacrifice a little reliability for the passion of driving a car I love. Then there's styling. BMW is going over my threshhold. They have to shape up before I buy another sedan. The only vehicle that appeals to me is the X3. However my wife and I both love our 03 530 so it's a tale of two cities.
With regard to retained value I'm not sure BMW can keep this up. I think they are still living off the previous generation.
http://www.alg.com/news-information.asp?page=news_alg_rva
Luxury Brand Residual Value Rankings
1 BMW
2 Lexus
3 Acura
4 Mercedes-Benz
5 Infiniti
6 Volvo
Industry Brand Residual Value Rankings
1 Honda
2 Toyota
3 Nissan
4 Volkswagen
5 Jeep
6 Subaru
7 Mazda
8 GMC
9 Chrysler
10 Ford
Category Winners
Compact - Mini Cooper
Mid Size - Nissan Altima
Sports - SLK
Near Luxury - Nissan Infiniti G35
Luxury - Mercedes CLK
Mini Van - Honda Odyssey
Compact SUV - Honda CRV
Midsize SUV - Toyota 4Runner
CUV - Volvo XC90
Full Size SUV - Toyota Sequoia
Compact Truck - Toyota Tacoma
Interesting how MB has two category winners yet they are only fourth by brand.
Designman - it truly is a great car with reliability that you can bank on. I read that news on the 5 in CR as they felt it gave you everything - sport handling, reliability and plenty of luxury. You know of course the car it displaced was the LS which held that thrown for as long as I can remember. With the 5 falling from grace I would assume the LS is back on top. That 5-series was just a bully. "Now run downstairs and tell Harvey to come on up. HEY HARVEY"!