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I wish BMW never made an suv and concentrated on wagons instead.
I couldn’t agree more. The problem is that SUVs and Mini are responsible for their recent success. Cayenne now accounts for more than half of Porsche’s sales. If the world wants pigs, you sell pigs and count your money.
“You'd prefer a station wagon over an SUV?”
Absolutely. A sport wagon with a convertible rear hardtop. Covers many bases.
But the market wants SUV's.
Spin ? Me, concort spin ? Hehehehe :):)
Why drag up long lost posts..... Among all the posts here, I have lost touch where we were, what we were discussing, and why ???? BUT, I have found something: That DENALIINPA is absolutely infatuated with this forum as his opium. As a long-term poster here, my suggestion for him is to take a break and slow down.... Not everything needs a response....
Could be. But I'm not so sure about it. I have a feeling hybrid prices are not going to come down to price levels of conventional cars, even with volume production. There’s too much going on with them mechanically and electronically. Did computers ever come down to the price levels of typewriters? The comparison is extreme, but similar nonetheless.
No matter what, SUV is here to stay in my house. Its not that I want one, but the significant other MUST have one. I blame GM and Ford for creating this monster.
Not me, I blame the significant others. I recently counted 19 SUVs in succession at a stoplight in my town... all driven by significant others.
(I think we are going to be blessed with a visit by Pat pretty soon ;-)
GM and Ford don't really belong here - some of you need to check the topic and get with the program, yes?
Someone said "Not everything needs a response" ... I could NOT agree more. Maybe we could try to ignore the posts that are way off base for whatever reason and keep our own posts topical?
And if anyone has a serious problem with something out of line that has been posted, how about just dropping me an email and letting me handle it instead of posting a response. Dealing with that sort of thing is my job ... not anyone else's ...
I almost forgot your marketing question. I can tell you that Lexus is going to make a real big deal about the new models and worldwide branding in 2007. This will be equal to or greater than the pre 1990 pre-launch and continuation after launch marketing and brand awareness push. Some of this I know firsthand because the marketing information business is how I make a living. Though they say they want to go after BMW that is only to raise awareness in the younger crowd for the new IS and GS. It's MB that remains in their crosshairs. BMW - no need to change anything - always a great local market advertiser with a lot of sponshorship events and dealer tie-ins. MB - no clue - they are going into cost-cutting mode.
It would be nice if you would provide a post number ...I don't recall anyone saying the A8 was less safe then the LS...Saying this over and over again does not make it so...But I am Old and have a Sometimes faulty Memory..so I ASK YOU to PLEASE back up your claim.
If You cannot Provide the POST NUMBER...PLEASE STOP MAKING THAT STATEMENT WHICH I DO NOT BELIEVE TO BE TRUE ...THANKS.
Sorry about the link problem ...
When you see profit maximaztion instead of cost cutting you know the guy is still in shock/denial and can't handle the reality he's facing. Last time I heard that type of talk was when Al the butcher/hatchet man was hired for another turn around and failed to the point that he falsified revenue in the pre-Enron fiasco days. It also reminds me of pre-owned vs. used labelling. I do agree with him that sending a few top lieutenants to help Chrysler didn't have any effect on MB. In a manufacturing business that big the system is what is crucial not two managers. But that's also why I think MB's problems are so big. There is something wrong with the system and a guy was fired for saying so. Meanwhile a cost cutter is brought in for the fix. Draw your own conclusions on that one.
The other thing is he mentions is this:
"with the aim of repositioning Mercedes as the No.1."
So he admits MB has lost its throne? That is very interesting because it may have been an accidental slip of what the real mindset in the company is given everything else he said was a lot of BS trying to cover such a thought up.
Now please don't tell me that I don't know what I'm doing as a consumer or that I am a fool when I save a bundle on choosing an LS430 over an S500 and end up with the car that is at a minimum its equal and in every owner tabulated survey beats it to death. Case closed on that one.
By the way have you ever priced a fully loaded TLC?? It usually is all of a few thousand less than an LX470 and for the latter you get an air suspension and a few other things not available or included on a TLC. Those who used to say they were 10-12K apart were comparing a TLC with many missing options to an LX470 that had everything included in its price. Good luck finding a TLC that was as stripped as those mentioned. That was a custom order. Every TLC brought here is loaded. When I bought the loaded TLC was $59.5K and the loaded LX470 was $61.7k. There was no $10K difference. The $2.2K bought me an air suspension, an up and down suspension adjustment, a better stereo and a cmore luxurious interior plus two free scheduled services. Cheapest TLC on the lot was $57K and change and missing things I wanted. My difference in lease price was $11 per month. Wow!
the pricing between the vehicles is
very different. a TLC with options
is approx. 60500. the LX..67+.
when it comes to available equipment and luxury isn't the Phaeton the equal of all the other offerings in this class?
Well the claim was made that Lexus sells more luxury cars in the U.S. over 50K so I said it was Mercedes. The profits, business curve, all that jazz we've been over and is irrelevant to what I was asking. Last I checked Mercedes was still selling cars that compete with Lexus and ones that don't, at a premium over Lexus, BMW and Audi. You've been saying that people are going to stop paying this and stop paying that, but it hasn't happened yet. The two sales leaders in this particular class are the least expensive and the most expensive so.....kinda goes against the doom and gloom prediction from you that is now 4 years old.
FYI a S500 never, ever sold at 110K.
BMW has had over 40 years to displace Mercedes as #1 whatever that means in the grand scheme of things, prestige, sales etc. The comment was made about sales which BMW managed to pass Mercedes during certain months last year. BMW won't pass Mercedes until they build something under their own brand that can match up with the exotics of the world, and they certainly need something other than a 7-Series to match Mercedes' CL, SL, SLR models. I know its lost point on this board but those are the cars that get the headlines and build the brand image, especially when rich folk all over the world drive them. BMW isn't even close to toppling Mercedes on that front. Their last exclusive model, the Z8 was slaughtered by the SL.
M
M
That was my evil twin, take your pick
The Passat in particular was always seen as upmarket from a Camry, Accord or Altima, and priced accordingly, and if you look at the new one you'll see what I mean. Unfortunately VW needs to offer the upmarket ambience with a regular market price otherwise they aren't going to sell many of anything anymore.
M
"What happened to the Germans' favorite car, the Mercedes?
These days, the cars of all premium carmakers contain a lot of electronics, not only at Mercedes. And electronics cannot simply be bought and integrated into a car. We need to ensure smooth cooperation with our suppliers."
The word again: electronics.... So MB has problem integrating electronics into their cars. And this is the #1 marque brand in the world ?
"So you're blaming the others?
No. We're responsible for Mercedes. Our customers have a right to top quality, and they will get it."
Revealing statement here. Notice that Jurgen didn't say "they are getting it", rather "they will get it" Hmmmmmm... Good luck to current MB owners, since it will appear that only future owners will benefit from their quality upgrade.
Overall: the Q&A is very revealing. The general tone and pointedness of the questions reveal the seriousness and the REALITY of the problems at MB. Unfortunately, the top execs are still in some denial, with loads of excuses and massaging of facts to gloss over the problems. I sure hope and wish MB the very best in turning things around. Hopefully sooner rather than later.
What he was talking about is in quality and sales over BMW, which outsold Mercedes for a few months in 2004. He isn't talking about your positioning theory. Now he had to catch himself because he made a mistake? Lexus' chairman shoots his mouth off about the GS and even the faithful aren't wowed by the car. Did he slip too? Hype at its best. One wrong word and a car company is done.
Oac,
Why post the review if its such a joke?
M
By denials I refer to statements such as these:
- "The quality of all cars that leave our plants today is better than ever"
Really ? Then why is the question still being asked ?
- "Without the weak dollar and the costs at Smart in 2004 the result of the Mercedes Car Group would have been markedly better in 2004"
And no other global auto manufacturer was affected by the weak dollar, right ?
- "No, a profit maximization program. Because we're not only looking at costs, but also at revenues. Eckhard Cordes has the right people and knows which levers to pull. You'll see tangible progress at Mercedes-Benz cars in the next twelve months"
Talking of spin, eh ???
- "And electronics cannot simply be bought and integrated into a car."
It's not our fault....
I could find more of this kinda *denials* and *excuses* if you insist....
This:
"And electronics cannot simply be bought and integrated into a car."
is a denial or an excuse? Sounds like to that is what they were doing and they realize it doesn't work.
Take a hard look at costs doesn't sound like a spin or excuse to me either, sounds like they're at the very least trying to do something about it.
The only part I find suspect is about the quality of the cars leaving the plant being the best ever, that remains to be seen just yet.
Just admit that you find the whole interview to be a joke or excuse, no need to pick it apart line by line that is tired.
Spin: Saying a SL or S600 isn't a luxury car to make a illogical point about sales.
M
And I didn't post that Schrempp interview for fun or to make a joke about it. But really to (a) change the topic which was going no-where, and (b) hear from the CEO of Mercedes-Benz on the state of affairs at MB. Whatever else comments we all make are our own opinions, right ? Like you, I am entitled to mine. You don't have to agree with it.
M
M
Ok I'll keep that in mind, though it isn't that serious to me. Interviews with car execs really don't do anything for me unless they say something really off the charts. I don't think anyone wants to read anymore about Lexus and Mercedes or Audi at this point. So I'll pass on the search engine for Lexus exec interviews.
M
Now the currency problem - it effected every importer of every good to the US. MB had 70% profit coverage for the dollar in 2004. That is reflected in their figures. The other 30% is not but overall this is by and large an immaterial amount. That's why it's spin on his part. The results would have been unacceptable no matter what is a non-spin statement.
Gloom and doom - never said they would go bankrupt or any other crazy statement like that. Said they would slip precipitously and it would show up financially and it has. Said the quality would continue to decline and it has. I also said they'd eventually correct things but never return to their glory days of pre-1990. Their days of grand master supreme by a wide margin are over. Their days of being a top auto maker and among the finest in the world have a long run still in front of them.
CEO spin - It's part of the job qualifications and all of them do it very well.
M
the post numbers are 7767 and 7801.
the inference was made that the aluminum
skin of the Audi A8 had inherent flaws
that made it more dangerous and less sturdy
in case of an accident.
ranking the top CPO'd brands.
http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.aspx?contentid=4020743&src=ms- n
It would seem to me the quality of a car and it's appointments, state of the art features, comfort, Safty and dependability, make for a Luxury car..NOT PRICE..
Yes the S Class is far more expensive then an LS Ultra, but is it Better....
I have carefully read the two posts and the link provided...He does not state that The Audi is less safe then Lexus...In fact he doesn't mention Lexus in either post...The question is advantages or dis advantages of aluminum frames and the Link seems to disprove any advantages for aluminum...
http://ussautomotive.com/auto/steelvsal/mechproperties.htm
Here once again is the link...I will ask you once again to please stop this misrepresentation of the posters words and meaning....They are clear to me...and he has clairified his intent in later messages just to be perfectly certain he was not misunderstood.
It is disingenuous to assume his intention was anything else, regardless of further posts..
And, if that isn't the case.. then what was the point?
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Why don't we drop this particular exchange?