I'm kind of in the same boat. I'm going to be purchasing a car, and I'm looking to buy on 9/13. I've debated between the 03 and 04. I want a 1.8T Quattro, automatic, with premium pkg, and 17" all season tires. So not too far off from yours. The best price I've received was $30,200 and that includes a metallic exterior. I've also been quoted $30,560 from another dealer and $30,735, but that includes the cold weather pkg. So prices are really falling on the 03 models.
I've decided to go with the 2004 model as I've been quoted 31,235 with prem, cold weather and 17" all season tires.
As for your questions: 1. I do not know about the NO area. 2. I would expect to pay 30,000, the longer you wait the better price, no doubt about it, they want to get rid of them.
3. You will be limited by what is left on the lot, I would call around and see what is left and what price quotes you get. Then keep trying every two weeks, if the stock looks stable, then wait till your lease is up, if it looks as if its starting to dwindle purchase. If you walk in and the only cars they have left have extra options, lights, radio etc,, if you tell the dealer what you want up front, you'll prob get a huge discount on the other stuff.
4. I'm in the same boat, I want a car by 9/13. I'm told the first batch of 04 models are on the ship and should be in dealerships by end of Aug, Sept. 1 at the latest. Who knows if this is actually the case, but this is the info I've come across. I've also been promised a loaner car if the shipment is late, so if you do go this route, get a dealer to offer you the loaner in between your lease and arrival of new car.
Great info. It gives me much to think about. Man, those quotes you got kinda suck! Not very encouraging for me since TMV on Edmunds is less than the quotes you got!
Also, I was wondering how you got a quote on the 2004 when they aren't officially announcing the changes and packages yet. Can I just walk into the dealer and make a deal on a car that they don't have yet?
Audi for 04 MY changes and packages have been known by dealers for some time now. Some 04's are already coming in. The only Audi you can order at this time are 04's. Can you make a deal? I have no clue what you are talking about.
The prices for 04's will be somewhat different than for 03's -- some of us, me included, have noted that there is some package / option variations from year to year and some -- unfortunately -- decontenting. Much as it pains me, I must say the decontenting irritates me but the differences unless you already had an 02 or an 03 are minor.
Improvements, many of them invisible, are also there. If you are leasing the residual of the 04 will be higher than the 03 so all things being equal an 04 will cost less per month than an 03 -- of course the discount on the 03 MAY be greater.
When you order a car you get what you want, and I, for one, think that makes the car "worth" more. If there is an 03 on the lot that you like and feel that you will not be making any sacrifices by acquiring -- go for it.
Generally, I would go for the newer one -- A4's can NOW be ordered (04) with the Ultra Sport Package (either 1.8T or 3.0) -- from the factory.
That alone would be enough to make me order exactly what I wanted (which would include On*star and sat nav and leather and ultra sport) and never look back.
All of this means that the real answer to your question is either "yes -- with these qualifing factors" or "it all depends." I think you would be "happier" ordering the exact car you want, waiting 3 or 4 months and moving forward.
Thanks for the report. I am contemplating whether I should get an extended warranty and your info helps.
Yeah speaking of which I just had a Check Engine Light, again.....although it went out after half a day of driving. Since it never came back again, and I'm about 1000 miles from an oil change, I'll just wait till I go in for the check-up.
This past week, I was able to test drive a 2003 A4 1.8T quattro with Tiptronic, and really loved the way it drove and handled. I am in the final month of a Volvo lease, and need to start making some decisions on another car very soon. So far, I have test driven an A4, a Saab 9-3, and a VW Jetta. I have also looked at the Infiniti G35 and Nissan Maxima. Of all these cars, the A4 is the one I am leaning toward the most.
I am looking at leasing again, and figure this is a good time to do so since dealers are looking to clear out their 2003 models.
Clair Audi and Ira Audi were both able to offer me a 2003 A4 1.8T quattro with Tiptronic, premium package, and cold weather package for $300/month for 39 months (10,000 miles/year) and $3108 due at lease signing. Is this a good deal, or should I continue to negotiate further? I have heard of other dealers in the area offering up to 15,000 miles per year, and have seen an Audi ad in the Boston area that required only $1875 at lease signing (not including first month's payment and acquisition fee). Is that fee something I can asked to be waived? Every site I seem to come across says it is a silly bank fee, and the dealer should waive it as the cost of doing business with you. Plus, it saves $600-$700 at lease inception.
I hope to finalize numbers within the next week or two, and would like some feedback on this. I am trying to learn all I can about leasing (so as not to make any mistakes this time around), and feel I know most of it (except all the lease calculations, etc...but that's what a calculator is for...)
If so, who cares what we think?. . .I would not put any money down on a leased car -- it is a false economy. Especially with the market the way that it is now, I see no merit in reducing the capitalized cost by giving them money. And, your driving needs will dictate the milage deal. Personally, I would want at least 12K per year, but here in Ohio we've never heard of public transportation.
Also, try driving the exact same Audi A4 with the manual transmission -- the auto version, IMHO, pales in comparison.
Having said that, both are really great cars -- the sitck version has more "urge" by far.
And as far as negotiating goes, you can always keep going until THEY walk away. They will still take your previous offer (unless you really ticked them off and even then they will almost certainly sell you the car unless they have a better offer in hand.)
I am somewhat disheartened at this point in my search for a new car. I have wanted a Jetta since I first got my license, and last Saturday I test drove the 1.8T and loved it (even if it was a bit small). However, after doing some research, I found that the engine coils on the 1.8Ts have been failing like crazy, so I re-thought my Jetta purchase.
I searched the internet, and found that I really liked the Audi A4 1.8T. It was more expensive, but I thought that would probably be worth it for more reliability. Now I find that not only is Audi owned by Volkswagen (which I didn't know) but the A4 1.8T has the exact same problem as the Jetta I was looking at.
My question is: has this problem been fixed in the 2003s? I heard some rumors that cars made after a certain date wouldn't have the crappy coil packs any more, but I never heard what that date was. Should I buy a 2003 and hope most of the bugs have been worked out (perhaps get some coils while I'm at it, just in case mine go), or should I wait for the 2004s and hope the coil problem is fixed but risk running into a whole new mess of problems? My faith in Volkswagen and Audi has been shaken!
Don't worry about the coils. They seem to be fine now.
My A4 has the "doomed to fail" coils in it and I've yet to have one fail. Just remember that the people with no problems far outnumber those that do. Not very many people log on to the internet to report that their VW/Audi was trouble free today, but you better believe that anyone with a failed coil pack is going to post about it on every message board they can find.
I too was worried about the ignition coils, and swore that would not buy an Audi because of this problem. Although VW/Audi initially mishandled the coilpack issue, it seems that they now have resolved the situation. I do not expect my A4 to be as reliable (although no problems as of yet) as the Japanese cars that I previously owned, but I know this going in. You only live once, drive something you like.
Agreed w/tiredofmanual. My A4 also has the coils that MAY fail as AoA kindly pointed out in a letter sent to us owners. So far nothing's wrong with mine and as tiredofmanual pointed out, there are far more A4's out there with no problems than ones that have the coilpacks failing on them (knock on wood I won't find myself stranded after work this evening). And I have confidence, in the future, they will replace them free of charge.
How do you figure that these quotes suck? The TMV for my configuration (with metallic paint) is $30,488 without Cold weather pkg and $30,651 with the CW pkg.
The prices I've been quoted: 30,735 with CW, so that is less then $100 over TMV 30,200 without CW, $288 under TMV 30,560 without CW, less then $100 over TMV. (However this price would be lower if I purchased here)
While there is fluctuation, I do manage to come pretty close to TMV. And I'm willing to bet if I waited another month, or even Mid-Sept when you want to purchase, I'd get a much better deal. The only risk is that we don't know what will be left.
Every dealer has the 2004 info. They should know, although must had to do a little research with their ordering person, what is coming in in the first batch. However, I've received some misinformation from some dealers. One guy kept insisting the 6 Disc changer was no longer standard on the 1.8T. A quick call to AoA or a search of their press released showed me the exact changes...
I'm essentially doing what you asked about. I'm going to put money down later this week on a car that a dealer claims he has coming in by Sept. 1. Its a gamble, but I don't have many other options. Hes promised me a loaner if its not in yet, if for some reason its not in, i'll go shopping for whatever '03s are left or choose another car.
What if you found a website that had a forum that if you read it (more or less in a vacuum) would lead you to believe that Honda, Toyota, Nissan -- or XYZ -- had lots and lots of problems? Would that make you think that these brands were not very reliable?
It blows me away to read a post proclaiming low expectations for Audi reliability when compared to previous [Japanese in this case] cars. Then somehow saying that this "certain" lower reliability is an OK trade off for the Audi driving experience.
While I agree with the latter statement -- I would trade some reliability for a better driving car -- I expect my Audis to be reliable -- no excuses.
I have become so accustomed to the Audi (and other German / European car) bashing that I slipped and bought into it.
All my friends -- who are passionate in whatever way -- about cars seem to complain about their car's reliability. The folks I know that use their cars simply because "they have to" love their fill in the blank cars. Some of the people I know think their Toyota's -- which I would immediately find many faults with -- are fine.
The poster who wrote that happy customers with cars that perform without fuss or problem, probably don't post "another trouble free day" -- but, those that have issues post more often and on a wider variety of places -- is most likely correct.
Edmund's provides these townhalls for fans of the brands -- not that we should turn a blind eye to problems and certainly not that we should keep our problems to ourselves. As a fan of most things Audi and Volkswagen I do not have the interest in Toyota bashing or praising (using Toyota as an example).
For those of us who really enjoy Audis or are thinking about owning Audis, I think we can all agree "they aren't perfect" but they are distinct in many ways and generally provide a virtually unparalleled driving experience.
You should expect Audis to be every bit as reliable as Japanese cars -- they don't really need to have excuses made for them, either.
7/19, my A4 is very reliable. Let me state for the record that I have more miles on this beauty than I put on either of the Hondas I've owned and it has given me fewer problems than either my '79 Accord or my '85 Prelude.
Don't get me wrong, Hondas are well made cars but like any other car that you hold onto for some years/miles they have issues.
My '98 Audi is the most reliable car I've ever owned and one of the nicest to drive, how can you beat that?
amounted to like 1900 OOP, cant remember if it was 36,39,or 48 months....was 10k per year. i know it was a 1.8t but can't remember if it was quattro or not.
I don't think it is fair to judge Audi in a vacum, but you have to be realistic also. If you look at any publications that track reliability like JD Power, Consumer Reports, etc. Audis don't fair very well while Hondas and Toyotas do. While I expect my Audi, to be problem free, if I had a problem it would surprise me less than if I had it on a Toyota Camry. I've owned both German and Japanese cars before and have come to understand that while German cars provide true driving enjoyment, they are quirky and expensive to fix. While Japanese cars typically lack the visceral feel of German cars, they will however, run forever.
A thoughtful and well communicated point; and, one that I generally agree with.
Most of us don't buy based on JD Powers; most of us think about cars (that we have no personal experience with) based on anecdotes.
One of the people in my office had a Saab 9000. The stories -- horror stories -- about this car make me never want to even look at one of them. A friend of my wife, on the other hand has a Saab 95 and has only goodness to relate.
I don't know and I don't really care enough about what Consumer Reports says about Saabs -- I have first hand heard "the truth" from actual owners of the brand.
The list of people we all know who have a diversity of cars allows us to have actual conversations with real people about cars -- Consumer Reports basically has never seen an Audi they liked (but even this isn't fair of me since I stopped looking at Consumer's Reports 20 years ago) -- but go with me for a moment. Consumer's Reports apparently doesn't give high marks to Audis. I have personally (my wife and I) owned over two dozen of them. I am not going to be easily swayed on Audis by Consumer's Reports or JD Powers, for that matter.
What "you guys" here on Edmunds say means more to me than JD Powers. I also like to read what the automotive press has to say -- specifially because THEY ARE SUBJECTIVE. Once I find a magazine or a writer who seems to value the same things I do, well I pay attention to one of his or her reviews in XYZ magazine.
Some journalists can't say anything bad about a Japanese car -- some can't say anything good about an American car. When I run across one of these writers, I don't believe them. When Csaba (?) the editor of Car and Driver says something I usually pay attention becuase I have found his words to frequently ring true.
There is another writer, his name escapes me now, who apparently worships BMW and although I often agree with his opinions, I find myself discounting his road tests if there is a BMW being tested in a group since I have never seen him write a disparaging word about Bimmers.
So I agree do not look at these subjective acquisitions in a vacuum. But I know several people who claim their Japanese cars have been anything but reliable and I also know people who have nothing but bad to say about "fill in the blank" here (Saab for example).
Let's not confuse reliability with "love". Some folks are very passionate about their cars and will be more tolerant about problems while others will not tolerate even the most minor of glitches. Most agree that "passion" about cars separates the enthusiast from the average Joe car buyer. I consider myself an enthusiast, so I don't make buying desicions based on Consumer Reports or JD Power, but I see no flaw in their method....essentially they take a sample of owners that report their problems. So, in assesing reliability I put more weight on data gathered from a large sample of people rather than anecdotal evidence. Do I pay attention to anecdotal evidence also?, sure!. I hung out at VWVortex for a few years before I got my A4 and noticed that Audi folks had a lot less problems than their VW counterparts. Be aware of the flip side, ethusiasts can be over-critial about their cars and make you think they are a death trap when they are not. The moral of my soliloqui, is to take bits and pieces from every source and form your own oppinion as to what reliability risk you are willing to take on...
If I am interested in a car I read enough reviews to pick out the consistant themes. For example it would be reasonable for someone who hasn't driven a BMW to expect it to handle quite well. Likewise it is reasonable to expect a Honda or Toyota to be reliable.
I'm planning to buy an '01 A4, 2.8 quattro Tiptronic. It's a certified pre-owned and the guy is offering it for $29000 (I'm in the SF bay area). It's pretty much fully loaded (Bose speakers, 17" wheels, moonroof, dual-power seats, the usual suspects). TMV shows the price as $27,205. I guess I can talk him down to $28,000. Good deal?
Also, I was reading elsewhere on this board that there have been some problems with the engine coils on some of the earlier A4 models. Does anybody know if it affects the 2.8s as well? In general, how is the reliability of an 01' A4 2.8...I'm planning to keep this one for a while, so it'll be nice to know.
Does anyone know how I can get full body paint on A4 3.0? Is it part of a package? Ive been looking for one with full body paint but couldnt get one Oh and IF its part of a package how much does it cost? Thanx
That price sounds awful high. Is it a dealer that is offering it for sale. I would check the Kelly Blue book and NADA guides and compare them with the TMV, and then try to decide if the car is worth that much money. That sounds like and awful lot for a 3 year old A4 that probably just came of a lease and is going to need a lot of maintenance pretty soon, like the timing belt replacement at 60K or so, just after the 4yr/50K warranty expires (if it hasn't already). Just my $.02.
Thanks for the info. The Kelly blue book actually shows the same price as the dealer is quoting. I haven't checked the NADA guide. It's got about 25,000 miles on it and the dealer said that the warranty still has a couple of years on it. Is the timing belt replacement a known problem or is it just recommended to do that?
well i checked the same thing but the paper ad said 249, i even rubbed my eyes and looked again and it was 249....we'll see if it shows up in the strib again this wkd.
"I'm planning to buy an '01 A4, 2.8 quattro Tiptronic. It's a certified pre-owned and the guy is offering it for $29000 (I'm in the SF bay area). It's pretty much fully loaded (Bose speakers, 17" wheels, moonroof, dual-power seats, the usual suspects). TMV shows the price as $27,205. I guess I can talk him down to $28,000. Good deal?"
A couple of important questions: do you have to have the 190HP 2.8 V6 engine? do you have to have tiptronic?
Less important question: are dual power seats a deal maker/breaker?
Key question: is the 2001 body style something that you must have; and/or are you not a fan of the 02-04 A4 body?
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OK last question -- are you paying 100% cash money or will this in ANY way be financed (including leased?)
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My response: way way way too much money when you consider that you could get either an 03 or an 04 A4 1.8T 5spd or 6spd manual (or tip if -- uh, I can't think of any reason to get a tip, but if you must well, so be it) for less money -- and have a newer some could argue better car that would outperform the 01 A4 (if you compared the 01 w/tip to an 03 or 04 w/stick that is.)
Go to the audi website and configure an A4 1.8T quattro -- see what I mean. The website does not permit configs of 04's, but they will, if they are not drifting in already, soon be available at your Audi dealers. Right now the selection of 03 A4's already in the country are being discounted and the lease deals -- well there are very attractive lease deals. 04's due to their higher residual may also have some attractiveness financially and should at least be "pondered" from a feature and pymnt perspective.
Now, if they take, A MINIMUM of an additional 10% off the price of the 01, and you are paying 100% cash or can get super super low financing (equal to or less than 2% money) and YOU ARE buying not leasing -- well maybe the 01 A4 should be considered if you step back about 50 paces and squint your eyes real hard so you can't see that you're getting the previous generation's A4 (which was a good car -- and still is).
In any case this is not attractive unless all the planets get in alignment, you get the discount you are paying cash or the lease deal is beyond my imagniation.
I would seriously dispassionately look long and hard at a brand new 03 or 04 1.8T manual quattro A4.
48 month lease with 10,000 miles a year. Black 3.0CVT with Premium, 17s and Bose for $425/mo out the door (including tax, titles and license) with nothing down.
Thanks for your input, Mark. To answer your questions, I'm really not too picky about any of the features, such as the 2.8, 190hp v6 engine, or the dual power seats or the body style. The only thing I really need is automatic transmis, as I live in SF and it really helps there. I will be buying, not leasing and planning on putting down about 20% cash and financing the rest.
I definitely see your points and after a few of my friends echoed your exact sentiments, I've pretty much abandoned the idea of getting that particular one. I'm going to shop around for an '03 A4 1.8T automatic. Would you suggest that at all, or it dosen't make mych sense to do that without a manual? The first look at the pricing on Edmunds seemed to show it as slightly more that 30K, but I'll do a tour of the dealers.
Just got offered a 2003 A4 1.8T quattro, auto, premium, metallic paint, that has an MSRP of $30560 from a dealer. He said the best he could do was $30000. That makes monthly payments about $426 with nothing down, 49% residual and MF 0.00125 on a lease.
The dealer said that price was firm, as there are no holdbacks or dealer incentives. Is he feeding me a bunch of crap? The TMV at Edmunds is about $29500 and the 2004s are coming any week now, making the 2003s old hat. My problem is I waited too long and now have to make the move in a week or two with my old lease running out - definitely before the 2004s arrive.
Help me decide! I feel like the impending 2004s should be pushing the price down, but I may just be greedy.
My personal dislike of a tip aside, of course I would get the 1.8T with an automatic if I didn't want the manual.
Let's keep this objective -- everything I said before I stand by EVEN should you decide you must have the automatic transmission.
MY PERSONAL reasons are that -- personal -- I like the extra acceleration that the Audis (not just this one) have with the manual transmission.
I am not telling you I think the transmissions are bad -- I am telling you for MY OWN REASONS I don't care for them.
You will be, still, IMHO, happier with a brand new 03 or 04 1.8T (tip or non tip) than you would be with the older model you suggested.
One more little tidbit -- you may, considering your financing desires find an 03 A4 3.0 that will be in your price range on a monthly basis -- because it is "clearance time!"
Im considering an Amulet Red '03 A4, Quattro with auto trans. It has premium and cold weather and 17" wheels in it. While I can easily find the MSRP for it, Im trying to have it on decent price. Can anyone help? Thanx
a sales dude there told me once that the quattros lease for about the same price as the front trak because the residuals are better on the quattro than on the front traks
Thanks, Mark. The reason I prefer the automatic transmission is because I go up to San Fran a lot and the automatic really helps there. Anyway, I actually ended up getting a brand new Audi A4 1.8T (CVT) over the weekend, with the premium pkg, sports pkg, xenon lamps, 6-disc changer bose system, etc. Basically, fully loaded except for the navigation system. Got this for 30K with a 2.9% APR. I might have paid a little more considering that like you said, it's clearance time, but I'm not too concerned as it's the perfect color I want, along with the other options.
my wife has the same car and i am starting to really like the red. i have the silver myself but her red has really grown on me. i have the quattro so i don't get the cvt. i can tell you that it's a much smoother transmission. it just feels "at home" cruising at 50 in a 35. you'll know what i mean when you're trying to control your speed.
Congrats on you new Audi! Read your posts a little late but I agree with what Mark said. Great choice, pretty much same as what I got 3 mos ago except mine's a red MT quattro. I wasn't planning on getting the zenons and Bose but I'm glad I did. And the low interest financing helped a lot.
I really like the dolphin also--I was just set on getting a red one but it's tougher to keep clean. The CVT is quick (supposed same accel as MT) and I know what you mean about having an AT in SF.
If you ever get the urge for better acceleration, get a chip, it's a different car afterward...highly recommended. But enjoy your new car for now, best driving car I've owned.
Audi needs to make Multitronic a bit more robust. They should take a look at Nissan's Extroid (Xtronic)CVT, it can handle a lot more power and torque than Multitronic.
. . .from what I have read will be CVT for quattro.
As we speak the engineers are probably working on a solution for the CVT to allow it to be mated with the 4.2 engine and all wheel drive.
My understanding is that the new 6spd tiptronic can even (current model) handle the diesel's torque and "soon" the RS 6's too. No CVT is anywhere near that heavy duty AND ready for prime time. But leave it to the Germans to engineer it -- at least if they are given the time and money to do so.
Rumors abound about 7spd tiptronics too -- who knows by the time we get to a 30spd tiptronic it will probably be so smooth it will feel like it is a CVT.
I drove the CVT (A6) it was almost uncanny how it just went, almost turbine like. It was kinda odd not really noticing the shift points, however.
Makes me long for a 6spd auto to see if they have improved over the 5spd tip. I have had four 5spd's (all in Audis) three of them tiptronics -- and to be kind -- I strongly disliked them. The only 5spd tip that Audi has ever put in a car that I have driven that is worth a damn is in the 2002 S6.
I read about "tip lag" until I am blue in the face with the burning question, "if you test drove Audi's rendition of drive by wire (tip) and Audi's 6spd (or even 5spd) manuals, why would you buy a tip (excluding the S6 and probably the RS 6)?"
The "wife" answer won't cut it as my wife has had a string of Audi's since 1979 and NOT ONE OF THEM has been an auto -- in fact she dreads the loaner Audi's (even the S4's) cause all they ever loan (98% of the time) is automatic versions.
Comments
I'm kind of in the same boat. I'm going to be purchasing a car, and I'm looking to buy on 9/13. I've debated between the 03 and 04. I want a 1.8T Quattro, automatic, with premium pkg, and 17" all season tires. So not too far off from yours. The best price I've received was $30,200 and that includes a metallic exterior. I've also been quoted $30,560 from another dealer and $30,735, but that includes the cold weather pkg. So prices are really falling on the 03 models.
I've decided to go with the 2004 model as I've been quoted 31,235 with prem, cold weather and 17" all season tires.
As for your questions:
1. I do not know about the NO area.
2. I would expect to pay 30,000, the longer you wait the better price, no doubt about it, they want to get rid of them.
3. You will be limited by what is left on the lot, I would call around and see what is left and what price quotes you get. Then keep trying every two weeks, if the stock looks stable, then wait till your lease is up, if it looks as if its starting to dwindle purchase. If you walk in and the only cars they have left have extra options, lights, radio etc,, if you tell the dealer what you want up front, you'll prob get a huge discount on the other stuff.
4. I'm in the same boat, I want a car by 9/13. I'm told the first batch of 04 models are on the ship and should be in dealerships by end of Aug, Sept. 1 at the latest. Who knows if this is actually the case, but this is the info I've come across. I've also been promised a loaner car if the shipment is late, so if you do go this route, get a dealer to offer you the loaner in between your lease and arrival of new car.
Hope that helps,
Jason
Also, I was wondering how you got a quote on the 2004 when they aren't officially announcing the changes and packages yet. Can I just walk into the dealer and make a deal on a car that they don't have yet?
The prices for 04's will be somewhat different than for 03's -- some of us, me included, have noted that there is some package / option variations from year to year and some -- unfortunately -- decontenting. Much as it pains me, I must say the decontenting irritates me but the differences unless you already had an 02 or an 03 are minor.
Improvements, many of them invisible, are also there. If you are leasing the residual of the 04 will be higher than the 03 so all things being equal an 04 will cost less per month than an 03 -- of course the discount on the 03 MAY be greater.
When you order a car you get what you want, and I, for one, think that makes the car "worth" more. If there is an 03 on the lot that you like and feel that you will not be making any sacrifices by acquiring -- go for it.
Generally, I would go for the newer one -- A4's can NOW be ordered (04) with the Ultra Sport Package (either 1.8T or 3.0) -- from the factory.
That alone would be enough to make me order exactly what I wanted (which would include On*star and sat nav and leather and ultra sport) and never look back.
All of this means that the real answer to your question is either "yes -- with these qualifing factors" or "it all depends." I think you would be "happier" ordering the exact car you want, waiting 3 or 4 months and moving forward.
Yeah speaking of which I just had a Check Engine Light, again.....although it went out after half a day of driving. Since it never came back again, and I'm about 1000 miles from an oil change, I'll just wait till I go in for the check-up.
Billy
This past week, I was able to test drive a 2003 A4 1.8T quattro with Tiptronic, and really loved the way it drove and handled. I am in the final month of a Volvo lease, and need to start making some decisions on another car very soon. So far, I have test driven an A4, a Saab 9-3, and a VW Jetta. I have also looked at the Infiniti G35 and Nissan Maxima. Of all these cars, the A4 is the one I am leaning toward the most.
I am looking at leasing again, and figure this is a good time to do so since dealers are looking to clear out their 2003 models.
Clair Audi and Ira Audi were both able to offer me a 2003 A4 1.8T quattro with Tiptronic, premium package, and cold weather package for $300/month for 39 months (10,000 miles/year) and $3108 due at lease signing. Is this a good deal, or should I continue to negotiate further? I have heard of other dealers in the area offering up to 15,000 miles per year, and have seen an Audi ad in the Boston area that required only $1875 at lease signing (not including first month's payment and acquisition fee). Is that fee something I can asked to be waived? Every site I seem to come across says it is a silly bank fee, and the dealer should waive it as the cost of doing business with you. Plus, it saves $600-$700 at lease inception.
I hope to finalize numbers within the next week or two, and would like some feedback on this. I am trying to learn all I can about leasing (so as not to make any mistakes this time around), and feel I know most of it (except all the lease calculations, etc...but that's what a calculator is for...)
Thanks for any advice.
If so, who cares what we think?. . .I would not put any money down on a leased car -- it is a false economy. Especially with the market the way that it is now, I see no merit in reducing the capitalized cost by giving them money. And, your driving needs will dictate the milage deal. Personally, I would want at least 12K per year, but here in Ohio we've never heard of public transportation.
Also, try driving the exact same Audi A4 with the manual transmission -- the auto version, IMHO, pales in comparison.
Having said that, both are really great cars -- the sitck version has more "urge" by far.
And as far as negotiating goes, you can always keep going until THEY walk away. They will still take your previous offer (unless you really ticked them off and even then they will almost certainly sell you the car unless they have a better offer in hand.)
I searched the internet, and found that I really liked the Audi A4 1.8T. It was more expensive, but I thought that would probably be worth it for more reliability. Now I find that not only is Audi owned by Volkswagen (which I didn't know) but the A4 1.8T has the exact same problem as the Jetta I was looking at.
My question is: has this problem been fixed in the 2003s? I heard some rumors that cars made after a certain date wouldn't have the crappy coil packs any more, but I never heard what that date was. Should I buy a 2003 and hope most of the bugs have been worked out (perhaps get some coils while I'm at it, just in case mine go), or should I wait for the 2004s and hope the coil problem is fixed but risk running into a whole new mess of problems? My faith in Volkswagen and Audi has been shaken!
Thanks!
-Sara
My A4 has the "doomed to fail" coils in it and I've yet to have one fail. Just remember that the people with no problems far outnumber those that do. Not very many people log on to the internet to report that their VW/Audi was trouble free today, but you better believe that anyone with a failed coil pack is going to post about it on every message board they can find.
Good luck
Speed
Billy
How do you figure that these quotes suck?
The TMV for my configuration (with metallic paint) is $30,488 without Cold weather pkg and $30,651 with the CW pkg.
The prices I've been quoted:
30,735 with CW, so that is less then $100 over TMV
30,200 without CW, $288 under TMV
30,560 without CW, less then $100 over TMV. (However this price would be lower if I purchased here)
While there is fluctuation, I do manage to come pretty close to TMV. And I'm willing to bet if I waited another month, or even Mid-Sept when you want to purchase, I'd get a much better deal. The only risk is that we don't know what will be left.
Every dealer has the 2004 info. They should know, although must had to do a little research with their ordering person, what is coming in in the first batch. However, I've received some misinformation from some dealers. One guy kept insisting the 6 Disc changer was no longer standard on the 1.8T. A quick call to AoA or a search of their press released showed me the exact changes...
I'm essentially doing what you asked about. I'm going to put money down later this week on a car that a dealer claims he has coming in by Sept. 1. Its a gamble, but I don't have many other options. Hes promised me a loaner if its not in yet, if for some reason its not in, i'll go shopping for whatever '03s are left or choose another car.
It blows me away to read a post proclaiming low expectations for Audi reliability when compared to previous [Japanese in this case] cars. Then somehow saying that this "certain" lower reliability is an OK trade off for the Audi driving experience.
While I agree with the latter statement -- I would trade some reliability for a better driving car -- I expect my Audis to be reliable -- no excuses.
I have become so accustomed to the Audi (and other German / European car) bashing that I slipped and bought into it.
All my friends -- who are passionate in whatever way -- about cars seem to complain about their car's reliability. The folks I know that use their cars simply because "they have to" love their fill in the blank cars. Some of the people I know think their Toyota's -- which I would immediately find many faults with -- are fine.
The poster who wrote that happy customers with cars that perform without fuss or problem, probably don't post "another trouble free day" -- but, those that have issues post more often and on a wider variety of places -- is most likely correct.
Edmund's provides these townhalls for fans of the brands -- not that we should turn a blind eye to problems and certainly not that we should keep our problems to ourselves. As a fan of most things Audi and Volkswagen I do not have the interest in Toyota bashing or praising (using Toyota as an example).
For those of us who really enjoy Audis or are thinking about owning Audis, I think we can all agree "they aren't perfect" but they are distinct in many ways and generally provide a virtually unparalleled driving experience.
You should expect Audis to be every bit as reliable as Japanese cars -- they don't really need to have excuses made for them, either.
Raise the bar, or as Audi says "never follow."
-- signed, a fan of the brand (can you tell?)
I've owned and it has given me fewer problems than either my '79 Accord or my '85 Prelude.
Don't get me wrong, Hondas are well made cars but like any other car that you hold onto for some years/miles they have issues.
My '98 Audi is the most reliable car I've ever owned and one of the nicest to drive, how can you beat that?
Count me as a fan of the brand.
-Vorsprung durch technik<i/>!
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
amounted to like 1900 OOP, cant remember if it was 36,39,or 48 months....was 10k per year. i know it was a 1.8t but can't remember if it was quattro or not.
I don't think it is fair to judge Audi in a vacum, but you have to be realistic also. If you look at any publications that track reliability like JD Power, Consumer Reports, etc. Audis don't fair very well while Hondas and Toyotas do. While I expect my Audi, to be problem free, if I had a problem it would surprise me less than if I had it on a Toyota Camry. I've owned both German and Japanese cars before and have come to understand that while German cars provide true driving enjoyment, they are quirky and expensive to fix. While Japanese cars typically lack the visceral feel of German cars, they will however, run forever.
Just my 2 cents
Speed
Most of us don't buy based on JD Powers; most of us think about cars (that we have no personal experience with) based on anecdotes.
One of the people in my office had a Saab 9000. The stories -- horror stories -- about this car make me never want to even look at one of them. A friend of my wife, on the other hand has a Saab 95 and has only goodness to relate.
I don't know and I don't really care enough about what Consumer Reports says about Saabs -- I have first hand heard "the truth" from actual owners of the brand.
The list of people we all know who have a diversity of cars allows us to have actual conversations with real people about cars -- Consumer Reports basically has never seen an Audi they liked (but even this isn't fair of me since I stopped looking at Consumer's Reports 20 years ago) -- but go with me for a moment. Consumer's Reports apparently doesn't give high marks to Audis. I have personally (my wife and I) owned over two dozen of them. I am not going to be easily swayed on Audis by Consumer's Reports or JD Powers, for that matter.
What "you guys" here on Edmunds say means more to me than JD Powers. I also like to read what the automotive press has to say -- specifially because THEY ARE SUBJECTIVE. Once I find a magazine or a writer who seems to value the same things I do, well I pay attention to one of his or her reviews in XYZ magazine.
Some journalists can't say anything bad about a Japanese car -- some can't say anything good about an American car. When I run across one of these writers, I don't believe them. When Csaba (?) the editor of Car and Driver says something I usually pay attention becuase I have found his words to frequently ring true.
There is another writer, his name escapes me now, who apparently worships BMW and although I often agree with his opinions, I find myself discounting his road tests if there is a BMW being tested in a group since I have never seen him write a disparaging word about Bimmers.
So I agree do not look at these subjective acquisitions in a vacuum. But I know several people who claim their Japanese cars have been anything but reliable and I also know people who have nothing but bad to say about "fill in the blank" here (Saab for example).
And I know of folks who love their Ford Focus'.
Regfootball-
Where did you see $249 leases?
I'm planning to buy an '01 A4, 2.8 quattro Tiptronic. It's a certified pre-owned and the guy is offering it for $29000 (I'm in the SF bay area). It's pretty much fully loaded (Bose speakers, 17" wheels, moonroof, dual-power seats, the usual suspects). TMV shows the price as $27,205. I guess I can talk him down to $28,000. Good deal?
Also, I was reading elsewhere on this board that there have been some problems with the engine coils on some of the earlier A4 models. Does anybody know if it affects the 2.8s as well? In general, how is the reliability of an 01' A4 2.8...I'm planning to keep this one for a while, so it'll be nice to know.
Thanks guys.
Oh and IF its part of a package how much does it cost? Thanx
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
A couple of important questions: do you have to have the 190HP 2.8 V6 engine? do you have to have tiptronic?
Less important question: are dual power seats a deal maker/breaker?
Key question: is the 2001 body style something that you must have; and/or are you not a fan of the 02-04 A4 body?
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OK last question -- are you paying 100% cash money or will this in ANY way be financed (including leased?)
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My response: way way way too much money when you consider that you could get either an 03 or an 04 A4 1.8T 5spd or 6spd manual (or tip if -- uh, I can't think of any reason to get a tip, but if you must well, so be it) for less money -- and have a newer some could argue better car that would outperform the 01 A4 (if you compared the 01 w/tip to an 03 or 04 w/stick that is.)
Go to the audi website and configure an A4 1.8T quattro -- see what I mean. The website does not permit configs of 04's, but they will, if they are not drifting in already, soon be available at your Audi dealers. Right now the selection of 03 A4's already in the country are being discounted and the lease deals -- well there are very attractive lease deals. 04's due to their higher residual may also have some attractiveness financially and should at least be "pondered" from a feature and pymnt perspective.
Now, if they take, A MINIMUM of an additional 10% off the price of the 01, and you are paying 100% cash or can get super super low financing (equal to or less than 2% money) and YOU ARE buying not leasing -- well maybe the 01 A4 should be considered if you step back about 50 paces and squint your eyes real hard so you can't see that you're getting the previous generation's A4 (which was a good car -- and still is).
In any case this is not attractive unless all the planets get in alignment, you get the discount you are paying cash or the lease deal is beyond my imagniation.
I would seriously dispassionately look long and hard at a brand new 03 or 04 1.8T manual quattro A4.
Sorry to rain on your party.
It's just my opinion.
48 month lease with 10,000 miles a year. Black 3.0CVT with Premium, 17s and Bose for $425/mo out the door (including tax, titles and license) with nothing down.
I definitely see your points and after a few of my friends echoed your exact sentiments, I've pretty much abandoned the idea of getting that particular one. I'm going to shop around for an '03 A4 1.8T automatic. Would you suggest that at all, or it dosen't make mych sense to do that without a manual? The first look at the pricing on Edmunds seemed to show it as slightly more that 30K, but I'll do a tour of the dealers.
The dealer said that price was firm, as there are no holdbacks or dealer incentives. Is he feeding me a bunch of crap? The TMV at Edmunds is about $29500 and the 2004s are coming any week now, making the 2003s old hat. My problem is I waited too long and now have to make the move in a week or two with my old lease running out - definitely before the 2004s arrive.
Help me decide! I feel like the impending 2004s should be pushing the price down, but I may just be greedy.
Let's keep this objective -- everything I said before I stand by EVEN should you decide you must have the automatic transmission.
MY PERSONAL reasons are that -- personal -- I like the extra acceleration that the Audis (not just this one) have with the manual transmission.
I am not telling you I think the transmissions are bad -- I am telling you for MY OWN REASONS I don't care for them.
You will be, still, IMHO, happier with a brand new 03 or 04 1.8T (tip or non tip) than you would be with the older model you suggested.
One more little tidbit -- you may, considering your financing desires find an 03 A4 3.0 that will be in your price range on a monthly basis -- because it is "clearance time!"
ends up being a lot of money, i had originally thought it was only like 2 grand down.
While I can easily find the MSRP for it, Im trying to have it on decent price.
Can anyone help?
Thanx
a sales dude there told me once that the quattros lease for about the same price as the front trak because the residuals are better on the quattro than on the front traks
Enjoy
I really like the dolphin also--I was just set on getting a red one but it's tougher to keep clean. The CVT is quick (supposed same accel as MT) and I know what you mean about having an AT in SF.
If you ever get the urge for better acceleration, get a chip, it's a different car afterward...highly recommended. But enjoy your new car for now, best driving car I've owned.
As we speak the engineers are probably working on a solution for the CVT to allow it to be mated with the 4.2 engine and all wheel drive.
My understanding is that the new 6spd tiptronic can even (current model) handle the diesel's torque and "soon" the RS 6's too. No CVT is anywhere near that heavy duty AND ready for prime time. But leave it to the Germans to engineer it -- at least if they are given the time and money to do so.
Rumors abound about 7spd tiptronics too -- who knows by the time we get to a 30spd tiptronic it will probably be so smooth it will feel like it is a CVT.
I drove the CVT (A6) it was almost uncanny how it just went, almost turbine like. It was kinda odd not really noticing the shift points, however.
Makes me long for a 6spd auto to see if they have improved over the 5spd tip. I have had four 5spd's (all in Audis) three of them tiptronics -- and to be kind -- I strongly disliked them. The only 5spd tip that Audi has ever put in a car that I have driven that is worth a damn is in the 2002 S6.
I read about "tip lag" until I am blue in the face with the burning question, "if you test drove Audi's rendition of drive by wire (tip) and Audi's 6spd (or even 5spd) manuals, why would you buy a tip (excluding the S6 and probably the RS 6)?"
The "wife" answer won't cut it as my wife has had a string of Audi's since 1979 and NOT ONE OF THEM has been an auto -- in fact she dreads the loaner Audi's (even the S4's) cause all they ever loan (98% of the time) is automatic versions.