Good evening. I am contemplating ending the lease on my '01 A6 4.2 and getting into an '04 S4, and what a machine it is. Silly question, but rather important to me--will my golf bag/clubs fit in the trunk?
Any owners in this forum wish to comment on their experience thus far with the S4? Thanks.
I have a 2003 A4 Quattro 3.0. First car with drive by wire technology. It seems there is a slight lag in acceleration when slowing down (as for a light or turn) and then accelerating again. When it does accelerate, it also downshifts and this makes it lurch forward. Hard to drive smoothly. The dealer says it is "normal." That is frustrating, but the scary part is that, on two occasions, I have experienced about three seconds with no response at all when pressing the accelerator. Once was in a busy Chicago intersection. The dealer found no problem, but reset the computer. Same thing once since then. I'm getting no help from the dealer. Has anyone else experienced this? Any advice? Would a performance chip take care of this problem?
The same thing happened on my Mom's 2002 A6 3.0. The dealer says it is the transmission "learning" her driving habits. A year and a half later and it still happens. My buddy who has an '02 A4 3.0 w/ 6 speed manual has no such problems.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I have a 2004 A4 1.8T with 1200 miles so far. Have not had any real problems so far. I have noticed a strange buzzing noise coming from the back of the car when shutting it down, sometimes have the same sound after starting up. Do you think this is the buzzing vibration from the "auto on" feature of the ABS+brake assist+ESP system that was discussed in earlier posts? Also, have not been able to program my home link to open my garage, the headlights flash indicating a successful programing but it won't work...any ideas anyone?
When I first got my A6, I noticed the same lag also. But after couple weeks, the lag is gone. It does take some getting used to in the beginning though.
I assume that all of the above posts were with tip transmissions? If this is the case, there is little that can be done, other than put the car in S mode and see if that takes care of the issues.
After 4 tips in a row (and over 25 Audis in our garage since 1977) I cannot imagine why anyone would not test drive both the 6spd and the tip. And, with MY bias and MY wife's refusal to drive an automatic transmission from any company, I cannot for the life of me imagine what would posses anyone to buy a tip.
But, as noted, this is my bias.
My bet, however, is that most folks don't take long long test drives of both tips and manuals.
Mark, just drive any manual transmission car in NYC traffic for 5 minutes, you will beg for auto transmission. Trust me, I would rather drive a manual, but real life living conditions say otherwise.
With my 3 hour S. Florida daily commnute in bumper to bumper traffic I wouldn't dare have a manual. Don't get me wrong, I love manuals, but heavy traffic sucks all the fun out of the enjoyment the manual is supposed to offer. Besides I cannot say enough about my CVT.
Since I started this discussion a few days ago, I'll reply. Thanks for the responses. I'm disappointed to hear I'm probably stuck with this problem. I didn't buy manual because my wife isn't real comfortable with it and I do want her to drive on trips. I do use S mode sometimes, and it helps the late downshift problem. If this is more of a tranny than engine issue, a performance chip probably wouldn't help, but I'm wondering what experience other owners have with chips. Worth it? Best source? Is this a reasonable do-it-yourself project?
I have been fortunate to be able to travel all over Europe. Rome or Paris comes to mind as a city that has traffic that is worse than anything I have ever seen in any US city, period.
I have ridden in taxi-cabs (often Passats, VW's, Audis and/or Mercedes) -- and I would say that at least 80% of them are manuals.
Speaking only personally and not intending to argue, I would say that driving a stick "ain't no thang!" under any circumstances -- and it gets rid of the power sucking attributes of the tiptronic. If you have the DSG or the CVT, well you get a pass from the dreaded tip - lag.
But, even the small cities of Italy have traffic that is worse than NYC -- and it is autos that are rare.
Manuals forever, autos never -- oh, heck, to each his/her own.
I believe GIAC makes a chip for the tip tranny--makes it shift quicker. I'm not sure if it will solve your problem and I'm just going on hearsay that it is actually an improvement but I recommend giving them a call to see if it can help.
My loaner car today is a 2004 A4 quattro 3.0 -- and it appears to have the sport package with the tip transmission.
My wife drove the car last night and gave the cruelest and unfortunately somewhat accurate assessment of the car: "Chevy Malibu."
I argued "no way" -- but the automatic transmission seems to sap the sport from the car and simultaneously sap confidence from the driver.
Now, in the spirit of full disclosure -- my wife literally HATES automatics and she is currently on her third TT coupe (a 2003 225HP with the 18" wheel and uhp tires); and I am driving a modified 6spd manual allroad (modded by the addition of the A6 sport antiswaybar, lowered suspension and 18" 245 x 45 UHP summer tires).
This A4, sad to report, reminds me more than it should of one of my friend's Aurora with the "autobahn" package (tighter suspension and sport wheels and tires).
After having driven the dynamic new S4, I expected at least some similarity. Perhaps my wife IS right, the transmission makes all the difference in the world -- they are like two completely different cars (the 2 A4's that is).
I had recently driven a 2001 A4 1.8T with the sport package, larger wheel/tire option and stick shift (5spd) -- it, in comparison, was a sports sedan.
As my dear old mom says "to each his/her own" -- but the point is as fine as the A4 in any configuration is, there is a huge driving difference between the tip and stick version.
By the way the 3.0 engine is very nice -- perhaps in this sized car the CVT would have eliminated the issues -- I had been previously driven a thusly configured A6 3.0 and found it to be very nice -- but in the A6 I expected less in terms of sport.
. . .and my "station wagon" is quick, fast and as nimble as my 2001 A6 4.2 sport ever was.
But, the point is well taken, her TT does, as she says, "hunker" -- at this point, knowing what I know today, my next car will be an S4 (I had an S6 in 1995 and until my allroad it was the best Audi I ever had).
And, I really don't mind the jab -- but Malibu, man that hurt!
You're right, markcinci, the tranny is a drag, but I do like the 3.0 in the A4. I kept thinking the lag problem I was having was engine related, but I am now convinced it's the tip tranny. Sport mode helps a little by keeping RPMs up, but off-the-line is terrible in any mode. I would have gone with stick, but my wife drives the car occasionally and she isn't very comfortable with stick. I get my stick kicks with my Jag E-Type and a Triumph TR6, so I conceded to the auto in the A4. BTW, looked at an RS6 this past week. It was in the showroom, but the salesman started it for me to hear. Awesome exaust note!
OK I drive a manual B5 '01.5 A4 1.8T and the last 2 times at the dealership they gave me a B6 '02 A4 1.8TQ with Tip, and a B6 '03 A4 1.8TQ with Tip. I noticed that on the '03 A4 1.8TQ, the "delay" off the line was a lot more noticeable than the 02. Now I don't know why they'd recalibrate between the years, but my guess is to take it easy on the transmission, easy on the Quattro system, easy on the tires, and get good numbers on the emissions. Either way, when I let my coworkers try out the car, they were both shocked at the delay. The most natural thing to do is to hit the gas pedal more when they want the car to go during the delay, but when the turbo kicks in at 1,850rpm, they will get the snap in the neck sensation. Their conclusions were that it's hard to modulate the gas pedal and drive smoothly. Not good.
But I can totally understand the necessity of the Tip in traffic. Now it is true that traffic in Europe can be as bad as that in Chicago, but heck, they don't get stuck in traffic for 3 hours from home to work and back.
For weeks, I've been given a number of explanations for why the XM part of my A4's Infotainment Package wasn't working. First, the salesman insisted it had XM, and I just had to activate it. Then, he said "oops, it probably wasn't installed at the port. We'll order one." Later, it was "oh, your car DOES have one. See these numbers on this door in the trunk? That's what you need to register, etc."
So, I registered. But I still got the same message when it hit the SAT button on the head unit -- NO SAT RADIO.
On Monday, I took the car to the service department to get the non-working XM feature settled once and for all. It turned out to be a bad connection. The XM module was in the car the whole time, it just wasn't hooked up right.
So now the XM is all activated, and all the channels are downloaded, and I'm happy.
During this service stop, I asked the dealer to reprogram the key fob so that I could lower and raise the windows with a touch of a button, rather than having to turn the key in the door. They said that's no longer possible, because of the way the car is now wired. It's no big deal, but the salesman did tell me it was possible for me to get the key fob customized to do pretty much whatever I wanted, so long as I signed a liability waiver. I wish the salesmen and the service department would get on the same page. The techs were able to program the doors to auto lock (at the relatively fast speed of 15 mph).
I also asked for the alignment to be checked. The service advisor told me it's common for suspension parts and alignment to feel a bit "off" during break-in, and that they would check the alignment during the first regularly scheduled service stop of 10K miles.
On the plus side, the service guys washed and vaccuumed the car. On the minus side, I had to find my own way back to the dealership. This particular dealer (Metro in San Diego) only provides shuttle service when you drop off the car. That seems odd, especially when you consider how much people fork over for an Audi.
My son now owns my former car, a 1998 2.8 FWD A4, standard shift. He now has around 96k miles on it, mostly highway driving, living near Savannah, GA. If properly maintained, how many miles should he expect to get out of this car?
I haven't bothered to check recently, but I believe Audi's 6 spd manuals offer two over drive gears (5th and 6th) with 6th gear set up to get every last ounce of MPG's out of the engine.
The 5 spds only have one overdriven gear -- 5th, of course.
The 0-100kph performance is usually available on line (mfgr's data). BTW Audi's data on accelerative times is generally highly believable (as are other German cars) in that they must demonstrate that their cars actually do what they say -- some companies post accelerative data that while apparently accurate happen under such an odd set of circumstances that they are more difficult to repeat.
My point is to suggest that you look at the accelerative times of a 5spd (say an 03 1.8T) and a 6spd (04 1.8T) -- if this is what you meant by performance.
You might also be able to deduce from final drive ratios and gear ratios and engine rpms at speed at least an implied fuel consumption difference -- of course these too are published and most likely not that hard to locate on the Internet.
I'm very happy with the 6 speed in my A4 1.8T quattro. I never drove a 5 speed, so I can't say anything about which one felt faster. But I appreciate how much quieter the car is in 6th gear at 80 mph. Sixth seems pretty tall, so I only use it at speeds above 65 or 70.
On an unrelated note, I think I foolishly believed a piece of misinformation from my salesperson. IIRC, he told me auto-dimming exterior rear-view mirrors were part of the Lighting Package I got on my car. Turns out, they're not. You can only get auto-dimming/power folding exterior mirrors on the Premium Pkg that comes with the 3.0. Oh well. At least I'm no longer wondering if the auto-dimming part of my mirrors is on the fritz. The Lighting Package for my A4 DOES have the auto-dimming interior rear-view mirror. But it seems silly to have one auto-dim, and the others not.
I was inquiring about acceleration, shifting performance ("feel", so to speak) and RPM levels at high speeds. I had heard that, with the 5 speed, the engine revved at fairly high levels at 60-80mph and was noisy. Thanks for your feedback.
My wife has had both 1.8T w 5 spd and w 6 spd -- in an Audi TT. 6th gear lowers the RPM's and I suspect raises the MPG's -- my allroad has 6spds and the same is true.
Like I said, I think that the 6spds have two over drives -- which, is a good thing from the perspectives noted. I have not checked to see if the 6spds are marketed as quicker -- and even if they are, I would want to see the final drive ratio before I attributed that to just the transmission's number of forward gears.
Many old British sports cars featured electric overdrives that worked on the top speeds of their 4-speed gearboxes, giving them in effect 6 speeds to work with, a very handy thing for driving on American interstates, even handier for the high speeds that could be sustained on the Continent.
Two overdrives would be welcomed by me since I do a lot of highway driving and the best I've been able to do with a 2.8 car is 26-27 mpg, 25 w Tiptronic.
When I'm in sixth gear, my 1.8T turns at 2,800 RPM at 80 MPH. I haven't memorized what 80 in 5th is like, but I'm guessing its smidge above 3,000 -- maybe 3,100.
Even when I'm in sixth gear, I can quickly accelerate from 75 to 90. The car can also cope with the hills on the 5 and 15 freeways in northern San Diego county without downshifting.
The feel of the shifter is okay, I guess. I've occasionally missed a gear in the two months I've had the car. The vague Audi/VW shifters in general do not compare well to the likes of what one finds in an ordinary Honda Civic (which is what I had been driving). The shifter in the TSX was so good, I almost bought it for that one feature alone. But that's a topic for another board.
As far as gas mileage goes, I'm getting right around 30 mpg at 70-75 mph in 6th. I have to drive it gently to get that kind of mileage. If I drive like I really need to be somewehere, my highway mileage will drop to between 26-28. The "second" part of the trip computer (which I have not reset since buying the car) says the combined average MPG so far is 23.5. As is said often in these boards, your mileage may vary.
My A4 brochure shows the 5 sp. 1.8T FrontTrack goes from 0-60 in 7.8 seconds. The 6 sp. 1.8T quattro makes the run in 7.9 seconds. There's a 150 lb. weight difference between the two, so I would think there's some different gearing. It may be difficult to do a real comparison between the five speed and the six speed on the A4 because, according to the brochure, the fiver comes only on the FrontTrack, while the six speed is saved for the quattro.
. . .says 5spd M quattro accelerates in 7.9 seconds, if your brochure or manual for a 2003 says 7.9 for the 6 speed M -- one would assume that there is very little if any difference in gears 1,2,3,4 between the 5spd M and the 6spd M.
Even the final drive ratio must be the same, but the 6spd provides a slower engine speed due to its being even taller than 5th gear.
Thanks for finding that info. That's the kind of comparison I think we were all looking for. So it seems having a 6 sp. will result not in a quicker quattro, but a quieter one, with (perhaps) slightly better gas mileage.
I don't hang out here much... I'm usually over at "Real World Trade-In Values"... but I thought I'd drop by and invite you to check out the "makes and models" portion of my web page http://www.msu.edu/~steine13/auto.htm. I just started it, but I've got a section on Audi... don't take it too seriously... your insights will be appreciated.
Audi [allroad and A4] fans, I'm on "day two" of life without my allroad, while the side to side rocking driver's seat (a common problem in '03's with over 15,000 miles on the OD) is being "diagnosed."
However, the compensation is I have a 2004 A4 quattro 3.0 w/tip and every option except "sport suspension" although it does have the 17" sport wheel/tire option (and delete XM credit). This black beauty has just south of 4,000 miles on the OD.
I get in the car and set things up and pull the lever into "D" and take off. OMG there, immediately is that dreaded tip-lag and I'm still in the freakin' Audi dealer parking lot. Another thing I noted, the transmission seems to have one purpose in life: to be one gear higher than god intended me to be in. Whassssuppppp with that?!?
The car was stone cold silent, the sound system was somewhat of an impovement over my pretty good allroad Bose (the A4 "infotainment" option includes the Bose speaker set up, don't you know).
The handling and the way the thing took railroad tracks and undulating pavement was impressive -- I wondered what the sport suspension would be like, this non-sport version was quite spanky.
One-half mile later, I had (for, uh, er safety reasons, yea that's it) floored the accelerator to see what the 3.0 had in it (the last time I drove one was in an A6 CVT, but that's another story). Suffice it to say, it was no S4 (even no 2.7T S4, but it was pretty peppy -- especially considering the fact that the tiptronic is bent on neutering this fine drive train).
So, now I sit at a red light and I think what the heck, I'll put the lever down into "S" -- HELLO, the car said, I am now the HULK.
I pulled away from the stop light and the car stayed a whole 3 seconds in first gear which meant when it shifted to second it was at an "appropriate" torque point to continue the forward thrust -- as god intended.
I have now driven the car 54 miles and tried "D" mode, tip-mode (looooooser) and "S" mode (winnnner). Makes me wonder who in the wide-wide world of sports programmed this transmission and why, knowing the performance sucking nature of this transmission (especially in "D") the final drive ratio is actually taller (lower numerically) than the 6spd.
Now get this, there is an inherent power loss with a "slush" transmission, DSG excluded of course. Therefore the tip versions generally have reported 0-100kph times that are slower than the same car with a stick shift (look on the AudiUSA web site).
So, wouldn't you think, esepcially in the US where 0-60mph is "king" and all day cruising at 100mph is virtually impossible not to mention illegal, that the tip Audis would have shorter final drive ratios in the automatics or at least equal gearing with the manuals?
And, why almost literally force the car at 2mph to upshift to second gear -- it KILLS the forward momentum. This transmission in "D" is subjectively worse than my 1963 Chrysler Newport's "Torque-Flyte" 3spd automatic -- which at least stayed in first gear so that the shift to second gear was not followed by a loss of urge (and this, without engaging kickdown).
OK, so the partial mea-culpa is, the transmission gets a pass so long as it is used virtually exclusively in "S" mode.
I have to wonder, not having driven a new allroad with tip if this phenom is the same? And, if it is, why in the world would anyone buy one of these things if they had not tested it exclusively in "S" mode?
Finally, I read and "argued" with several Audi and VW posters on this and other town halls and forums who proclaimed that the tip was smoother than the 6spd. I concede the point that the 6spd could be made to be herky-jerky. The tip in "D" mode cannot be made smooth -- it shifts up so early that the motion is MORE prevalent than the depressing of the clutch in the stick. My head, in "D" mode with this tip would bow forward at the shift points between first, second and third.
Perhaps the much touted 6spd tip and especially the DSG will mitigate the sensation of the tip in "D" mode -- I certainly hope so.
It is my intention to test a new S4 with the 6spd auto (which, is TIP, not DSG, not CVT) and see if this presumption is accurate -- I have already tested the S4 with the "new and improved" 6spd manual and it, finally, is in BMW's league (with respect to shift feel).
The CVT, to add a brief foot note is eerily smooth and has an incredible almost turbine like quality which, when and if it is adapted to the quattro system and the higher torque engines, would be even spankier (is that a word?).
Anyway to those who have taken umbrage at my proclimation that the "tip sucks" (even though I defend everyone's right to select one), I partially retract and modify my opinion: the tiptronic is significantly less quick (in the allroad 2.7T) when compared with the 6spd -- that fact remains; the 6psd and the tip can be smooth and can be herky-jerky. But now, I concede that the tip --driven in "S" mode -- in not unsatisfying; and, if it were coupled with a higher horsepower and torque engine and/or had a shorter final drive ratio would be [even for me] a "contender."
When used in manu-matic mode, the shifts are so smooth you can't tell you are shifting. I am not sure if this is good or bad, since the whole point of manu-matic is having the sensation that you are rowing your own gears. Other than that, CVT is as smooth as a baby's behind.
I have been away from this board for awhile. I am now on my third year of my three year lease on a Audi A4. I am already starting my research for a replacement vehicle. My wife has been driving the A4 most of the time. She states that this is the best car she has ever driven. Sounds like another audi is in the future. I have a question though, the other day I saw some A4's on the dealers lot. All of them had a strange wedge type piece on the roof of the vehicle. I was not impressed by the looks of this item. I am told that it is a homelink transmitter. If this is true why put it on the roof. What happened to the bumper location out of sight?? I am also thinking about a convertible Cabriolet. Two problems with that though. I live in the NorthEast and probably a increase in insurance rates. Anyone know how the drop top effects insurance? Any changes coming for 2005 on the A4 ie. more HP. Just picked up a subaru Forester XT with a 4cyl. MT which will blow away my wifes A4. Don
. . .is what I was told to call it, is for the XM or Sirrius (SP?) radio option -- they all have it, Audis this year and BMW's last year. I dunno, I have the "pig tail" antenna on my 2003, I would kinda prefer the whale tail.
To each his own.
The whale tail, BTW, can be for sat radio and apparently is the location for the other antennas that are used for regular AM/FM, Sat Nav, Telephone and Radio by Satellite. At least this is what I read in one of those arcane magazines that goes into such detail. . .
There has been talk of a 2.0T engine; and the current 1.8T engine "effortlessly" generates 225HP in the TT and it doesn't even break into a sweat doing so.
You see the problem is that a 225HP in a 4 banger, when compared with the 3.0 with only 220HP makes that A4 variant look, again, underpowered.
So what do you do? The 225HP 1.8T which is fully engineered, highly reliable and highly tunable would make the V6 tough to sell (except for those who think bigger is better).
It is all about the cubic inch crowd versus the volumetric efficiency crowd.
The new news is that the Audi non-turbo 3.2 engine does put out 250HP and IT isn't even trying.
So, perhaps this is an option: bump the 1.8T to 200 or 210 HP and bump the 3.2 to 265 HP and offer those two engines in A4's and offer a 340 or more HP V8 as the base in the S4.
My prediction: something that is in the spirit of these numbers and how they got to them will happen at the latest by the 2004 calendar year (perhaps it will be the 05 model year before you can buy one however). Perhaps, too, the HP of the 3.2 in the A4 will cap at 250 for the first go round. The lineup could then be a 1.8T and a 3.2 each with horsepower figures beginning with a "2" and the S4 with a BARE minimum power of 340 -- and if there is such a beast an RS 4 with an HP number biginning with a "4"!
Thanks all for the quick info response. I guess I ve been out of touch. Feels good to be back on the board. I need to keep up with the news so I can make an informed choice come trade in time. My current A4 is a 3.0 quattro 2002. Don't get to drive it much. I can't pry my wifes little hands off the steeling wheel. she makes terrible squeaking noises when I try to obtain possession of the A4. I am getting a real lesson in what turbo 4's can do lately. I have not been much of a turbo person, but with the new Subie Forester XT with a 2.5 sti turbo that has all changed. I only have about 860 miles on the ODM so far. Have not unleased the tiger yet, but from what I am hearing. I better hang on with both hands. Well again good to be back, keep all the hot info coming. I do recognize some handles from 2002 when I was last researching good to see you are still here. Don
That's been known to the '04 Audi owners as the "shark fin." It houses the satellite receiver, On-Star receiver, and cellular antenna. The Homelink transmitter and receiver is housed up front inside the front bumper. Most Audis are being shipped over with the fin, but you can place a special order so it does not get placed on your car.
I haven't heard anything on any power upgrades to the 2005 models. I don't think the 3.2 found in the TT will make it over to the A4. Audi invested a lot of money on designing the 3.0 engine. Maybe they can build the output of the 3.0 for 2005. I do like the predictions from Mark.
I have heard that the new DVD-based Nav Plus system that's being sold in the A3 in Europe right now should find it's way over to the A4 (and the rest of the models) for 2005. Supposedly, the full system (with large color center mounted display) will make it over to North America. I'll wait and see.
You sure the Subie Forester 2.5XT has the same 2.5L turbo engine as in the WRX STi? I think the one in the 2.5XT is a derated version of the STi engine. The cool thing is though, it has more torque (although less hp) than the WRX with the 2.0L turbo engine in it.
Back to Audi's. The FSI 2.0T engine would certainly be welcomed in the A4. It's going to be in the new Golf's and A3's, I believe. 200bhp. Nice.
Comments
Any owners in this forum wish to comment on their experience thus far with the S4? Thanks.
OTOH if you're really set on the sedan, the seats do fold down, that should allow for a couple of golf bags easily.
Good luck with the S4, Nickjc, should be a sweet ride.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
After 4 tips in a row (and over 25 Audis in our garage since 1977) I cannot imagine why anyone would not test drive both the 6spd and the tip. And, with MY bias and MY wife's refusal to drive an automatic transmission from any company, I cannot for the life of me imagine what would posses anyone to buy a tip.
But, as noted, this is my bias.
My bet, however, is that most folks don't take long long test drives of both tips and manuals.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I have ridden in taxi-cabs (often Passats, VW's, Audis and/or Mercedes) -- and I would say that at least 80% of them are manuals.
Speaking only personally and not intending to argue, I would say that driving a stick "ain't no thang!" under any circumstances -- and it gets rid of the power sucking attributes of the tiptronic. If you have the DSG or the CVT, well you get a pass from the dreaded tip - lag.
But, even the small cities of Italy have traffic that is worse than NYC -- and it is autos that are rare.
Manuals forever, autos never -- oh, heck, to each his/her own.
My wife drove the car last night and gave the cruelest and unfortunately somewhat accurate assessment of the car: "Chevy Malibu."
I argued "no way" -- but the automatic transmission seems to sap the sport from the car and simultaneously sap confidence from the driver.
Now, in the spirit of full disclosure -- my wife literally HATES automatics and she is currently on her third TT coupe (a 2003 225HP with the 18" wheel and uhp tires); and I am driving a modified 6spd manual allroad (modded by the addition of the A6 sport antiswaybar, lowered suspension and 18" 245 x 45 UHP summer tires).
This A4, sad to report, reminds me more than it should of one of my friend's Aurora with the "autobahn" package (tighter suspension and sport wheels and tires).
After having driven the dynamic new S4, I expected at least some similarity. Perhaps my wife IS right, the transmission makes all the difference in the world -- they are like two completely different cars (the 2 A4's that is).
I had recently driven a 2001 A4 1.8T with the sport package, larger wheel/tire option and stick shift (5spd) -- it, in comparison, was a sports sedan.
As my dear old mom says "to each his/her own" -- but the point is as fine as the A4 in any configuration is, there is a huge driving difference between the tip and stick version.
By the way the 3.0 engine is very nice -- perhaps in this sized car the CVT would have eliminated the issues -- I had been previously driven a thusly configured A6 3.0 and found it to be very nice -- but in the A6 I expected less in terms of sport.
So let me get this straight...she drives the sports car and you drive the station wagon?....what's wrong with this picture.
But, the point is well taken, her TT does, as she says, "hunker" -- at this point, knowing what I know today, my next car will be an S4 (I had an S6 in 1995 and until my allroad it was the best Audi I ever had).
And, I really don't mind the jab -- but Malibu, man that hurt!
But I can totally understand the necessity of the Tip in traffic. Now it is true that traffic in Europe can be as bad as that in Chicago, but heck, they don't get stuck in traffic for 3 hours from home to work and back.
Billy
So, I registered. But I still got the same message when it hit the SAT button on the head unit -- NO SAT RADIO.
On Monday, I took the car to the service department to get the non-working XM feature settled once and for all. It turned out to be a bad connection. The XM module was in the car the whole time, it just wasn't hooked up right.
So now the XM is all activated, and all the channels are downloaded, and I'm happy.
During this service stop, I asked the dealer to reprogram the key fob so that I could lower and raise the windows with a touch of a button, rather than having to turn the key in the door. They said that's no longer possible, because of the way the car is now wired. It's no big deal, but the salesman did tell me it was possible for me to get the key fob customized to do pretty much whatever I wanted, so long as I signed a liability waiver. I wish the salesmen and the service department would get on the same page. The techs were able to program the doors to auto lock (at the relatively fast speed of 15 mph).
I also asked for the alignment to be checked. The service advisor told me it's common for suspension parts and alignment to feel a bit "off" during break-in, and that they would check the alignment during the first regularly scheduled service stop of 10K miles.
On the plus side, the service guys washed and vaccuumed the car. On the minus side, I had to find my own way back to the dealership. This particular dealer (Metro in San Diego) only provides shuttle service when you drop off the car. That seems odd, especially when you consider how much people fork over for an Audi.
I haven't bothered to check recently, but I believe Audi's 6 spd manuals offer two over drive gears (5th and 6th) with 6th gear set up to get every last ounce of MPG's out of the engine.
The 5 spds only have one overdriven gear -- 5th, of course.
The 0-100kph performance is usually available on line (mfgr's data). BTW Audi's data on accelerative times is generally highly believable (as are other German cars) in that they must demonstrate that their cars actually do what they say -- some companies post accelerative data that while apparently accurate happen under such an odd set of circumstances that they are more difficult to repeat.
My point is to suggest that you look at the accelerative times of a 5spd (say an 03 1.8T) and a 6spd (04 1.8T) -- if this is what you meant by performance.
You might also be able to deduce from final drive ratios and gear ratios and engine rpms at speed at least an implied fuel consumption difference -- of course these too are published and most likely not that hard to locate on the Internet.
On an unrelated note, I think I foolishly believed a piece of misinformation from my salesperson. IIRC, he told me auto-dimming exterior rear-view mirrors were part of the Lighting Package I got on my car. Turns out, they're not. You can only get auto-dimming/power folding exterior mirrors on the Premium Pkg that comes with the 3.0. Oh well. At least I'm no longer wondering if the auto-dimming part of my mirrors is on the fritz. The Lighting Package for my A4 DOES have the auto-dimming interior rear-view mirror. But it seems silly to have one auto-dim, and the others not.
Thanks for your feedback.
Like I said, I think that the 6spds have two over drives -- which, is a good thing from the perspectives noted. I have not checked to see if the 6spds are marketed as quicker -- and even if they are, I would want to see the final drive ratio before I attributed that to just the transmission's number of forward gears.
Two overdrives would be welcomed by me since I do a lot of highway driving and the best I've been able to do with a 2.8 car is 26-27 mpg, 25 w Tiptronic.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Even when I'm in sixth gear, I can quickly accelerate from 75 to 90. The car can also cope with the hills on the 5 and 15 freeways in northern San Diego county without downshifting.
The feel of the shifter is okay, I guess. I've occasionally missed a gear in the two months I've had the car. The vague Audi/VW shifters in general do not compare well to the likes of what one finds in an ordinary Honda Civic (which is what I had been driving). The shifter in the TSX was so good, I almost bought it for that one feature alone. But that's a topic for another board.
As far as gas mileage goes, I'm getting right around 30 mpg at 70-75 mph in 6th. I have to drive it gently to get that kind of mileage. If I drive like I really need to be somewehere, my highway mileage will drop to between 26-28. The "second" part of the trip computer (which I have not reset since buying the car) says the combined average MPG so far is 23.5. As is said often in these boards, your mileage may vary.
My A4 brochure shows the 5 sp. 1.8T FrontTrack goes from 0-60 in 7.8 seconds. The 6 sp. 1.8T quattro makes the run in 7.9 seconds. There's a 150 lb. weight difference between the two, so I would think there's some different gearing. It may be difficult to do a real comparison between the five speed and the six speed on the A4 because, according to the brochure, the fiver comes only on the FrontTrack, while the six speed is saved for the quattro.
Even the final drive ratio must be the same, but the 6spd provides a slower engine speed due to its being even taller than 5th gear.
I just started it, but I've got a section on Audi... don't take it too seriously... your insights will be appreciated.
Thanks,
-Mathias
East Lansing, MI
However, the compensation is I have a 2004 A4 quattro 3.0 w/tip and every option except "sport suspension" although it does have the 17" sport wheel/tire option (and delete XM credit). This black beauty has just south of 4,000 miles on the OD.
I get in the car and set things up and pull the lever into "D" and take off. OMG there, immediately is that dreaded tip-lag and I'm still in the freakin' Audi dealer parking lot. Another thing I noted, the transmission seems to have one purpose in life: to be one gear higher than god intended me to be in. Whassssuppppp with that?!?
The car was stone cold silent, the sound system was somewhat of an impovement over my pretty good allroad Bose (the A4 "infotainment" option includes the Bose speaker set up, don't you know).
The handling and the way the thing took railroad tracks and undulating pavement was impressive -- I wondered what the sport suspension would be like, this non-sport version was quite spanky.
One-half mile later, I had (for, uh, er safety reasons, yea that's it) floored the accelerator to see what the 3.0 had in it (the last time I drove one was in an A6 CVT, but that's another story). Suffice it to say, it was no S4 (even no 2.7T S4, but it was pretty peppy -- especially considering the fact that the tiptronic is bent on neutering this fine drive train).
So, now I sit at a red light and I think what the heck, I'll put the lever down into "S" -- HELLO, the car said, I am now the HULK.
I pulled away from the stop light and the car stayed a whole 3 seconds in first gear which meant when it shifted to second it was at an "appropriate" torque point to continue the forward thrust -- as god intended.
I have now driven the car 54 miles and tried "D" mode, tip-mode (looooooser) and "S" mode (winnnner). Makes me wonder who in the wide-wide world of sports programmed this transmission and why, knowing the performance sucking nature of this transmission (especially in "D") the final drive ratio is actually taller (lower numerically) than the 6spd.
Now get this, there is an inherent power loss with a "slush" transmission, DSG excluded of course. Therefore the tip versions generally have reported 0-100kph times that are slower than the same car with a stick shift (look on the AudiUSA web site).
So, wouldn't you think, esepcially in the US where 0-60mph is "king" and all day cruising at 100mph is virtually impossible not to mention illegal, that the tip Audis would have shorter final drive ratios in the automatics or at least equal gearing with the manuals?
And, why almost literally force the car at 2mph to upshift to second gear -- it KILLS the forward momentum. This transmission in "D" is subjectively worse than my 1963 Chrysler Newport's "Torque-Flyte" 3spd automatic -- which at least stayed in first gear so that the shift to second gear was not followed by a loss of urge (and this, without engaging kickdown).
OK, so the partial mea-culpa is, the transmission gets a pass so long as it is used virtually exclusively in "S" mode.
I have to wonder, not having driven a new allroad with tip if this phenom is the same? And, if it is, why in the world would anyone buy one of these things if they had not tested it exclusively in "S" mode?
Finally, I read and "argued" with several Audi and VW posters on this and other town halls and forums who proclaimed that the tip was smoother than the 6spd. I concede the point that the 6spd could be made to be herky-jerky. The tip in "D" mode cannot be made smooth -- it shifts up so early that the motion is MORE prevalent than the depressing of the clutch in the stick. My head, in "D" mode with this tip would bow forward at the shift points between first, second and third.
Perhaps the much touted 6spd tip and especially the DSG will mitigate the sensation of the tip in "D" mode -- I certainly hope so.
It is my intention to test a new S4 with the 6spd auto (which, is TIP, not DSG, not CVT) and see if this presumption is accurate -- I have already tested the S4 with the "new and improved" 6spd manual and it, finally, is in BMW's league (with respect to shift feel).
The CVT, to add a brief foot note is eerily smooth and has an incredible almost turbine like quality which, when and if it is adapted to the quattro system and the higher torque engines, would be even spankier (is that a word?).
Anyway to those who have taken umbrage at my proclimation that the "tip sucks" (even though I defend everyone's right to select one), I partially retract and modify my opinion: the tiptronic is significantly less quick (in the allroad 2.7T) when compared with the 6spd -- that fact remains; the 6psd and the tip can be smooth and can be herky-jerky. But now, I concede that the tip --driven in "S" mode -- in not unsatisfying; and, if it were coupled with a higher horsepower and torque engine and/or had a shorter final drive ratio would be [even for me] a "contender."
Drive it like you live.
As to answering your question about why isn't the final drive ratio lowered? Can we say EPA? lol!
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
I am already starting my research for a replacement vehicle. My wife has been driving the A4 most of the time. She states that this is the best car she has ever driven. Sounds like another audi is in the future. I have a question though, the other day I saw some A4's on the dealers lot. All of them had a strange wedge type piece on the roof of the vehicle. I was not impressed by the looks of this item. I am told that it is a homelink transmitter. If this is true why put it on the roof. What happened to the bumper location out of sight??
I am also thinking about a convertible Cabriolet.
Two problems with that though. I live in the NorthEast and probably a increase in insurance rates. Anyone know how the drop top effects insurance?
Any changes coming for 2005 on the A4 ie. more HP.
Just picked up a subaru Forester XT with a 4cyl. MT which will blow away my wifes A4.
Don
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
To each his own.
The whale tail, BTW, can be for sat radio and apparently is the location for the other antennas that are used for regular AM/FM, Sat Nav, Telephone and Radio by Satellite. At least this is what I read in one of those arcane magazines that goes into such detail. . .
"All of them had a strange wedge type piece on the roof of the vehicle. I was not impressed by the looks of this item."
I agree with you. Even if this is for a homelink system, navigation system or satellite radio, the whale tail is more substantial than I like.
I also hope the 2005 model comes with a bit more horsepower. 170HP for the 1.8T seems a bit low in comparison to some of it competitors.
Tony
You see the problem is that a 225HP in a 4 banger, when compared with the 3.0 with only 220HP makes that A4 variant look, again, underpowered.
So what do you do? The 225HP 1.8T which is fully engineered, highly reliable and highly tunable would make the V6 tough to sell (except for those who think bigger is better).
It is all about the cubic inch crowd versus the volumetric efficiency crowd.
The new news is that the Audi non-turbo 3.2 engine does put out 250HP and IT isn't even trying.
So, perhaps this is an option: bump the 1.8T to 200 or 210 HP and bump the 3.2 to 265 HP and offer those two engines in A4's and offer a 340 or more HP V8 as the base in the S4.
My prediction: something that is in the spirit of these numbers and how they got to them will happen at the latest by the 2004 calendar year (perhaps it will be the 05 model year before you can buy one however). Perhaps, too, the HP of the 3.2 in the A4 will cap at 250 for the first go round. The lineup could then be a 1.8T and a 3.2 each with horsepower figures beginning with a "2" and the S4 with a BARE minimum power of 340 -- and if there is such a beast an RS 4 with an HP number biginning with a "4"!
Woo woo!
I am getting a real lesson in what turbo 4's can do lately. I have not been much of a turbo person, but with the new Subie Forester XT with a 2.5 sti turbo that has all changed. I only have about 860 miles on the ODM so far. Have not unleased the tiger yet, but from what I am hearing. I better hang on with both hands.
Well again good to be back, keep all the hot info coming. I do recognize some handles from 2002 when I was last researching good to see you are still here.
Don
I haven't heard anything on any power upgrades to the 2005 models. I don't think the 3.2 found in the TT will make it over to the A4. Audi invested a lot of money on designing the 3.0 engine. Maybe they can build the output of the 3.0 for 2005. I do like the predictions from Mark.
I have heard that the new DVD-based Nav Plus system that's being sold in the A3 in Europe right now should find it's way over to the A4 (and the rest of the models) for 2005. Supposedly, the full system (with large color center mounted display) will make it over to North America. I'll wait and see.
Back to Audi's. The FSI 2.0T engine would certainly be welcomed in the A4. It's going to be in the new Golf's and A3's, I believe. 200bhp. Nice.
Billy