Audi A4 2004 and earlier

lauk0dg · May 2001

OOPS.....sorry about that :>

scirocco22 · May 2001

gads Billy, yeah, you're gettin worse than me!!

scirocco22 · May 2001

I've got a creaking noise coming from somewhere in the panel of my left rear door. It's getting worse and starting to drive me nuts. I know the service techs at the dealer just hate diagnosing these kind of things. I'm thinking of maybe disassembling the door panel myself but even if I do, what do I look for? hmmmm, should I have bought an American car? --nah, then I'd have creaking noises coming from the drivers door, the passenger door, the headliner, the dashboard, the center console, the instrument cluster, the b-pillers...........

lauk0dg · May 2001

Isn't it weird.....I've read tons of posts about little glitches on the A4, yet we the loyal owners still love our cars so much.

I had a 96 Accord with 120k miles b4 I sold it in March, and absolutely no rattles or mechanical problems. YET, the Audi excites me much more than the Accord. OK, maybe I will spend tons more fixing this and that on the Audi in 120k miles.....but still. Maybe reliable cars are less loved by their owners. Hehe.

I guess German cars still have some catching up to do regarding quality. I like the little engineering gadgets on the Audi though you know, like four (!!) different locking configs on the trunk lock, auto up/down windows, standard headlight cleansing system (amazes EVERYBODY even my most boring friend, and no I'm not going to say who that is), etc.....hope they all hold up long enough (crossing my fingers).

Well about dissembling the door panels, when they tinted my windows, they took off 2 screws just beneath the window on the door frame, and I can see they can easily take it apart on the top. You can do the same thing, but mind ya, you might run into more noises if you don't know the right way to put the panels together (you know those German engineers....sometimes they over-engineered).

MMMM nice sunny day. Time for another drive :>

Billy

scirocco22 · May 2001

Billy-- Thanx for the tip on the door panel. Yeah, I'm hesitant on trying to disassemble it on my own for the exact reason you sited. I can't tell you how many times in the past that I've done something like that only to make it much worse...lol. And I can recall trying to do some DIY wiring work on my Scirocco and definitely remember the numerous times I ended up cursing those German engineers (I'm not an electrical engineer either, lol)!

Yes, I agree, I'm really impressed with some of the unique little features on the car. I really dazzled a friend when showing her the "check cycle" for the driver information display (holding the clock adjustment button in for a few seconds)... those little animated warning symbols are sooooo kewl!! --man, you'd think this car was Japanese!--some of those cars are rather infamous for their so called "Tokyo by night" instrument lighting. And although not quite as kewl as the OBC in my old Ford Probe where when the ambient temperature dropped below 37 degrees the computer display flashed "ice" for about 10 seconds, I'm still impressed that the A4 will show a little snowflake in the display when the outside temperature drops to 41 degrees.

Now for those four different locking positions for the trunk, jeez, do they really need all those?? ...lol. But I guess it is a nice feature; however, I haven't yet completely used the feature yet. One thing I do like is that the fuel door is unlocked anytime the car is not completely secured. It makes it nice not to have to manually unlock the fuel door when you're at the gas pump.

lol! ...as for owners not loving their reliable cars, don't believe it! It seems that every Lexus or Acura owner I've talked to are as passionate about their cars as much or more than we are about ours. And go read the message boards here at Edmunds and the boards at the respective enthusiasts sites, like our Audiworld, to see how much these ppl are in love with their cars--man, like give me a break! lol. In fact, a co-worker of mine has purchased both a Lexus GS300 and RX300 in the past year and I think he's more in love with those two vehicles more than he is with his wife! (treats them better, anyway) sheesh!

OK, enough for now! ...don't wanna show ya up in the "long post" department :P

lauk0dg · May 2001

Yup, the gas cap door is quite geniusly designed.....I like it being locked, as opposed to BMW's, which you can open and close by ANYONE cuz it's not locked.

I've heard, however, if you have a MIL lamp on, (Malfunction Indicator Lamp) sometimes that only means you haven't clicked the fuel cap enough. Talking about MALFUNCTIONS.....whewsh.

Glitch of the Day: I've posted in AudiWorld already, but looks like my motion sensor for the alarm isn't working, or the sensitivity was set too low. I lowered the driver's side window, close all the doors, arm the alarm, wait for a minute or 2 for the system to equilibrate or whatever (basically wait for the blinking red LED on the door to slow down), then try to throw myself into the car. The motion sensor inside there is supposed to set off the alarm, but it didn't. Eventually I unlocked the door through pulling on the inside door handle, opened the door, and of course the alarm went off. If y'all could do me a favor by doing this little experiment and see if the motion sensor will set off your alarm, I WOULD GREATLY APPRECIATE THAT.

Billy

bast2 · May 2001

Okay guys, talk to me. How important is ESP? Got one on the ropes, but no ESP. I had felt pretty strongly in favor of it based on what I've read, yet sometimes question whether I fully understand it.

Missed my opportunity to get to the dealer this weekend but talked to a salesperson regarding current inventory of A4 1.8T Quattros. He's got one in Silver with Celebration, cold weather and Tiptronic. Everything I'd been looking for, but no ESP. I didn't sound overly interested, but I am. Thoughts?

JB

And by the way Billy, Scirocco....these little glitches are startin' to worry me! You sound like VW owners! LOL

lauk0dg · May 2001

Hey JB, nooooo who's VW anyway? HAHA.

ESP....well to tell you the truth, it's one of the things I wanted in my "perfect" 1.8T. In case Quattro, ABS and EDL (Electronic Differential Lock) can't do the job separately to save or help ya, ESP will take all the data from all these systems and brake each wheel individually. After really thinking about it, and after considering I have to special order a 1.8T and wait for 4 months cuz not that many of 1.8T's are equipped with ESP, I decided to give it up. I mean, I don't know about you, but I don't really drive my car to the limit and I don't autocross so really I don't think it's necessary for me.

Hey JB, silver is faster :> Silver is good, cuz mine is a silver bullet too :>

Dang....d'ya know a 2001.5 VW Passat 1.8T can be ordered with leather seats....dang. OOPS....no I know nothing about VW....I only know they are still "proud" to offer 2yr-24k mile warranty.

Billy

scirocco22 · May 2001

Billy-- ok, I tried your experiment and this is what I found: alarm went off about two seconds after I put my arm through the window. But before I did that I tried to throw in various soft objects, from balled up pieces of tissue to cardboard boxes and nothing happened. Then I tried the same thing with the windows closed and the sunroof open and even put my arm (down to my armpit) through the roof and nothing would sound the alarm. So I don't know what to figure. I've heard all sorts of ppl over at AW talk about the wind or flies or mosquitoes setting off the alarm but I couldn't get it to go off even throwing a 8"x8" cardboard box in there either through the window or the sunroof. The alarm system and motion sensor weren't that big a selling point of the car for me... I would have much rather had a transponder which I originally thought the car came with (my salesman thought so too and still probably does) and didn't find out that it didn't have one until I got it home and found that the plastic key actually turned the ignition and started the car! I mean, jeez, the Passat GLX has a transponder!!! ...and I even think that the Jetta GLX does too. Why don't we???

JB-- I have ESP but probably wouldn't have chosen that option had I ordered the car. I negotiated the deal on my car as it was being transported to the dealership for inclusion in their inventory so I made the deal on the car as it was equipped and ESP happened to be on it. I guess it's a nice feature to have and it's only available on high-end cars right now but still, will I actually have the chance to experience it in action? ...probably not but on the other hand, it could possibly save my life under certain conditions. Some say it complements the Quattro system. Here's some guy's explanation of the benefits of ESP on a Quattro equipped car if you haven't already read it:

http://forums.audiworld.com/a4/msgs/283914.phtml

But like I say, I wouldn't have initially ordered it and if I were in your shoes right now, I'd say "let's git it on!!" --go for the non-ESP car and start enjoying the drive! You might even be able to use that as a bargaining chip... tell the salesman that you had your heart set on ESP but if he can make it worth your while, you'd settle for the silver non-ESP car that he has in stock. And hey, as Karen said earlier, you'll be in good company with that silver A4!! --quite a few of us on this board either have silver or are ordering one so c'mon, Jeff, join the club!!

markcincinnati · May 2001

The article at the Audiworld Forum gives an excellent overview of ESP and Quattro and concludes that ESP on a quattro is recommended without hesitation. I would go even further: ESP is today as important as ABS was back there in 1987 when Audi brought its first cars with this technology to market (at least I recall it was '87). The technology is further enhanced in 2002 with brake assist -- which determines how hard you meant for the brakes to be applied based, in part, on how rapidly you press the pedal rather than just how hard you press.

Do not, under virtually any circumstances get a new Audi without this feature.

bast2 · May 2001

Well, I'm pleasantly surprised to hear what you guys had to say about ESP. The thing is, dang near every A4 I've found on the lot actually has it! Seems they all are showing up with celebration, ESP, cold weather and Bose stereo.

This silver A4 (currently in question) lists for $29,515. It's about $1000 below everything else I've been seeing (with the stuff listed above). This one has celebration, cold weather, Tiptronic. No ESP and no Bose. Looks like invoice is around $26600. If I could get that puppy for $27,400 I'd be one VERY happy camper.

One glitch.....he's got a RED A4 with the sport package, set up the way we'd want it....it just keeps staring at me and saying, "take me home."

Gloves come off tonight. I'll report in tomorrow!

JB

lauk0dg · May 2001

Thanks Scirocco for testing that out. It's great that it went off with your arm in there, I mean that's the purpose of it to deter thieves before they even try to start the car with ignition wires. I haven't tried that through the sunroof though, but I wouldn't expect it goes off that way. I guess I will have the service dept to use a VAG tool to adjust the sensitivity of that sensor.

Yeah I'm also surprised that it doesn't have a chip in the key.....but I knew that before I got the car and thought the motion sensors could make up for it (darn it). The Passat GLX got that? MMM....I thought the A4 doesn't have it cuz it's a design that's about 5 years old and they don't bother to change that till the 2002 model year. Looks like they can add that into the Passat, and they should do that in the A4.

About ESP.....well I like the additional safety it brings.....I'm just putting myself into JB's shoes and think if i wanna further delay the delivery cuz it doesn't have that. I guess you got to ask yourself if you are a good driver. I think of safety features as something that will help me, but WOULD NOT depend on them. I would not drive like crazy cuz I have ESP, ABS, EDL, Quattro, etc etc etc. Just my opinion and think of the millions of cars out there without these nice features. You are not any safer than them if you are not a responsible driver.

Billy

lauk0dg · May 2001

About the Bose, I would trade that for Xenons any minute.....although I know Scirocco is not going to agree with me about the Xenons :> Hey Scirocco, let's trade! Bose is nice and turns radio reception to almost CD quality (at least to my amateur ears), but for $650 it's a little steep. I took it cuz I want one with stick shift Quattro, cold weather pkg and celebration pkg but without the Sports pkg (and summer-only performance tires). Alright I'm cheap and I don't want to buy and store an extra set of winter tires and wheels (you NEED these if you have the Sports pkg here in Chicago). AND I want a silver one too. The dealer had this car in the lot so I took it without the agonizing 4 month wait if I order one, and a significantly bigger discount if I took it off their lot.

It's surprising to me to hear that most of the A4's you saw come with ESP. The stick shift ones I looked at usually don't come with ESP unless they have sports pkg. JB, are you only looking at Tiptronic cars? Maybe they figure if people can afford Celebration, Cold Weather pkg and Tiptronic, they can slam on more options like ESP or Bose and earn more $$.

Red vs Silver.....your pick :> Red is sharp too, and unique, but I just can't pass on the Silver although it's like 99.99999% A4's are silver :> Just kidding :>

$800 over invoice....it's doable, I got a deal about $600 ($624 to be exact) over invoice. Depends where you live I guess. Scirocco must be so mad at me now :> Sorry!

Good luck tho! And you did get your wife to go along with you huh? :>

Billy

markcincinnati · May 2001

ESP is so important that it will in the new models be standard equipment. Virtually all advances in safety (active and passive) would be not needed if everything and everybody was perfect. An Audi with lap/shoulder belts, air bags all around, dual braking systems, crumple zones, padding on interior surfaces, quattro, 4 wheel ind suspension, 4 wheel disc brakes, ABS, ESP and additional soon to be available or standard features are no excuse to drive carelessly.

Life is too short, too fragile and subject to too many things outside of our "control" that the more "stuff" that can be done to help you avoid potentially life threatening situations, the better. ESP should not be an option, on any car -- and I predict it will be as ubiquitous as air bags very soon.

I would not necessarily abandon my 3 month old non ESP equipped car (for example) for one with ESP, but if I am in the market to purchase either a 2001 or 2002 Audi, of any flavor, I would not get one without it.

That's my story, and I'm stickin to it -- I got so darn opinionated on this subject when I attended my fourth Audi Driving Experience in January of 2001. The universal opinion was in favor of ESP for "real world" driving -- even though it was not favored for "competition driving" where traffic was restricted and the course closed.

I'm a believer.

bast2 · May 2001

Well, read the article link Scirocco provided. While I didn't know all the technicalities of the ESP, I guess I had a pretty good understanding of it. Actually sounds like a valuable asset. But, no, I'm not an overly aggressive driver. From what I'm used to, this is going to be night and day with or without ESP.

As for color, Billy, I agree...90% of the A4's I see are Silver. Not that that's bad, I don't see many A4's the way it is, and I find silver to be very sharp. Dark colors hide the shape of the A4 IMHO, and I think the shape and styling of this car deserves to be shown off, it's beautiful.

As for alarm system, I've always been baffled. I'd go to the lots on Sundays (nobody around) and I'd be leaning all over the cars to look in, trying all the door handles to see if I can find one open. That little light by the lock would always be blinking and I'd always be surprised I wasn't setting something off.

JB

schwitzer1 · May 2001

I took my week-old A4 to the car wash down the street yesterday. Think how many cars these guys see on a daily basis...they were admiring my car before they put it in the wash-tunnel.

According to my salesguy, there are only two or three (including mine) A4's in Indianapolis with the Brilliant Yellow. It stands out. There's no trouble at all finding it in a parking lot. Every other car is some shade of red, blue, or silver.

Yeah, the A4 looks great in silver. It looks HOT in Brilliant Yellow.

lauk0dg · May 2001

or they think you try to steal one if you are trying to pull on the door handles. For the ones with the Cold Weather pkg, you can actually set off the door lock heater relay by pulling on the handle if the outside weather is cold enough => The little LED, however, will blink at the same rate even when you pull on the handle. Wait till they link the body shell with the starter to get rid of unwanted "fingerprints"....SHOCKKKKKK $>

Yup silver is awesome especially when it's complimented by the alloys. However, if I were to get an S4....mmm it got to be the Imola Yellow or the Nogaro Blue :>

Billy

lauk0dg · May 2001

Yeah the brilliant yellow is sharp too. Another reason why I got silver....cuz if i'm selling my car in the future, it's easier to sell a silver one than a yellow one. I like the shade of Imola Yellow more tho.....it's like right-in-your-face yellow, although someone said it makes the A4 more like a NYC cab.

Actually I haven't seen an A4 in Brilliant Yellow even up here in the Chi town....it'll definitely stand out though :>

Billy

bast2 · May 2001

Billy, a different dealer 30miles away has one in cactus green, set up just the way I want. Don't know if you were being sarcastic, but I love the cactus green. It's not the ho-hum forest green of many vehicles out there, just bright enough to set it apart. Sharp.

JB

lauk0dg · May 2001

Then go get that one!! Those colors are hard to come by!

bast2 · May 2001

Just got back from a different Audi dealer. Funny how the experience can be so completely different from one to another. This dealer was "small town-ish" and sold VW and Audi. I could finally compare the Passat and A4 side by side.

Asked to take a spin in the A4. He pulled around, came inside and said there it is, have fun. NO SALESMAN...WHooo Hoooo! We took it out for an hour and put it through its paces. Oh man, I've GOTTA have this car now. WOW, never knew you could take entrance and exit ramps at 60mph!

Here's what we tested: 1.8T Quattro, celebration, cold weather, Tiptronic, cloth seats. He claimed invoice was $26,9++, but that seems high to me. He offered it up at roughly $1000 over that inv. number. I told him it was going to have to be better and that I wasn't sure about color. He's checking on a few others and getting back to me. Here's a question for you all....the car tested had roughly 115 miles on it. Not a lot, but more than the 15-30 I've been seeing on most "lot" cars. Of course, I think we put about 35-40 on tonight (over the existing 115), so probably doesn't take too many similar test drives to accumulate. Also, noticed a very small amount of corrosion on the very edges of the tailpipes. Is that normal?? Stupid question, maybe. Just made me wonder how long this one's been sitting in the lot. I should really ask.

Well, whatever. No matter, if anything, we came home tonight knowing it's no longer IF, but WHEN.

This is really going to be fun.

JB

lauk0dg · May 2001

who has fallen in LOVE with the A4 :>

Congrats JB!! HEHE yup it is an addicting experience driving the A4. I can sense your excitement when you typed up that message. So what color was it? The cactus green one you talked about?

SO CALM DOWN and think about the $$ figure cuz I think that's the #1 fatal mistake a potential A4 owner can make :>

I ran your options thru Edmunds and looks like if it's neither black or white (these colors don't have the $450 metallic/cool shades option), the invoice is $26,600, MSRP at $29,515, and Edmunds TMV at $28,126. Yeah so looks like the dealer overstated the invoice by a few hundred bucks. $1000 over the "invoice" number he quoted will be about $27,900.....mmmm I sense that you can start from $27,100 and slowly work your way up. And remember to hide that exciting face of yours when you bargain your price :> You know the drill....pretend you don't like the color, don't like the options, etc.. I actually further "acted" by "working" my numbers on his calculator and got further discounts :> Tell him how damn far you live and you could have bought it from the closer dealer :>

115 miles....sounds like it took a few test drives, or maybe it's a dealer trade. You can eliminate the latter option by looking at the window sticker and it should tell you which dealer ordered it. It's still within acceptable range I guess. Mine had 20 miles so I couldn't comment :>

Corrosion of tailpipes.....well ask the dealer if it's just cosmetic and see if they will or be able to take it off. Mine got 3000 miles now and it went through one snow storm and salty roads before spring arrived and I don't see any rust there. How much rust you see anyways? You can find out the manufacturing date of the car by looking at the driver's door drame (right next to your buttocks, LOL). There should be a label there and it'll state the date. Judging that it has Celebration package on, it should be a 2001.5 model year car. For your reference, I bought mine on Feb 28, 01 and the mfg date was 11/00. Anybody knows if the mfg date is the date that the car rolled out of the plant, or it's when it's being put together, or it's when it's being ordered?

Good luck and have fun, JB !!!!

Billy

scirocco22 · May 2001

Corrosion: perfectly normal. I've got just a little around the rim of my tips too. I asked the service tech about it and he told me that it is not really corrosion or rust but just a little residue from the water vapor that exists in any healthy exhaust system. You'll notice that it wipes right off. After you purchase the car, you might want to install either after-market chrome tips or Audi also offers them as an accessory; they'll pretty much cover up the orange residue that forms on the tailpipe outlets. There are several after-market vendors that carry them (see the AW site). Or for the genuine Audi part, inquire about the price that your dealership's parts department charges for them and then check with Clair Parts Express in Boston (an Audi dealer that has quite an extensive internet business going--I've already bought a set of Audi All-Weather floor mats from them for quite a bit less than what the local dealers were charging. You can order online and they'll ship within a few days. I notice that quite a few AudiWorld guys use them. http://www.clairparts.com )

Invoice price: the "few hundred bucks" that Billy claimed that the dealer overpriced the invoice could be the advertising fee. The advertising fee is just over $200. Some dealers include this fee in their calcuation of the invoice, some charge it at the end, some try to hide if from you but as Edmunds has stated, it is a legitimate but negotiable fee. Legitimate because it is an actual expense that the manufacturer charges the dealer. I know that they "accidentally" forgot to charge me for it and it wasn't until after the papers were signed and the orientation session was over that the salesman told me: "ooops! you know what? I forgot to calculate in the ad-fee, oh man, the owner's is going to mad when he finds out... you're getting a better deal than you thought!" --sheesh, did he actually think that I was falling for that bs?

Mileage: I read somewhere and now I can't remember exactly what the number was as to the amount of miles that can be on a car and still have it be considered *new* and not a demo (althought the term "demo" is usually a car that the owner or sales manager drives home, I guess). I think 115 would still be okay but maybe somebody else can answer that question definitively. If I can find where I read that, I'll post it later.

Colors: there are three colors that are not charged the $450 msrp: Brilliant Black, Casablanca White and Laser Red. All others are either considered "metallic," "pearl effect" or "cool shades" and are charged the extra price. Cactus green for 2001 is a pearl effect and looks great! Here's a pic for anyone who doesn't know what it looks like: http://www.rwnewmedia.com/a4/images/fall_2000_pics/2.jpg

Keep us posted, Jeff! This is exciting! lol

scirocco22 · May 2001

I just looked up the transponder information over at the VW site and, dang, ALL Jettas come standard with a transponder and all Passats have them with the exception of the GLX (why would that be???). This is in ADDITION to the standard motion detector system that we have!

I'm sort of upset knowing this! *argh!*

Oh, the other thing that I was going to ask you is if you are either going to have your lock system programmed so that the door locks engage at 10 mph (?) or have the ability to operate the windows and the sunroof from your remote key fob. Again, from what I gather, all VW's are programmed from the factory to do this and our A4's aren't. It's just a simple code change using the VAG tool but from what I'm reading over at AW, some dealers are willing to reprogram and some aren't. Someone said that you get one chance for it to be done at no charge and then if you want to make another change, they'll charge you for it. Someone else said that the factory prohibits the dealer from reprogramming it at all. Well, you've probably read all the posts and the differing opinions on this. I'm kinda thinking that I'd like to have this done but I don't know yet. Have you considered buying your own VAG tool? I took a look at one of the web-sites selling them but don't know if it's worth it or not. It sort of looked complicated to operate and of course you'd have to have a good laptop. My laptop is pretty old and probably not powerful enough to handle it.

spridledog · May 2001

I'm seriously considering making an offer on an A4 (actually an S4, but for the purposes of this question, it's the same car). However, I'm tormented with thoughts of regretting buying a car with such a small back seat! My current car (Mazda Millenia S) has a larger back seat, but I don't seem to use it very often. I need room to occasionally carry two child seats (kids are age 5 and under) or maybe two adult friends on a trip to a local restaurant. Is the A4/S4 big enough for this? Anyone else in a similar situation? How is it working out? We have a minivan we can use when we need to take a larger crew. Please tell me I'll be allright, so I can finally buy the Silver S4 I've been lusting for!!

bast2 · May 2001

Billy/Scirocco: Yup, dealer tag on the car driven last night was $29,515. Based on the info he had given me on this particular car on Saturday over the phone I crunched the numbers ahead of time and came up with the $26,600 invoice price before I went to the dealer last night. When it came time to talk numbers I said, "so, invoice should be around $26,500?" He went to look through some invoices and acted as though he was reading off the page, "ummmm, it's actually $26,9++" He then came back and there was kind of one of those ackward moments of silence.....the "who's going to start flingin' numbers first" sort of moment. Scirocco: it crossed my mind that the extra $300 might be the ad fees and documentation fees tacked on. If so, I'll live.

He said he'd let her fly for $28,000. I said that was high and I wasn't sure about the color and lack of ESP. Told him where he could find the green A4, he's checking today. Once I get a price I'll call that dealer that I know has it and start from scratch and work my way to that car and see what they'll do. At this point, I've shown no real preference for any particular color...and truthfully, I'm still pretty open minded, though I've got my favs.

The color I drove last night was silver with the Onyx cloth interior. Actually we liked the silver and would probably do it if the price was right. It was the first with cloth interior we came across and I was pleasantly surprised. It seemed like it would wear very well and was quite comfortable. My only problems with it: will the onyx (basically, black) get very hot in summer despite the fact that it's cloth....and second concern....my yellow lab! Yellow hair on black cloth. I'm already dealing with it in my truck. However, the cloth of the Audi is a very tight weave, it's not that "fuzzy" crap you see in most American cars. Of course, down the road, with kids...the dark color would hide the stains and wouldn't appear as dingy (IMHO).

Last thing, just before I left the office to check out the car I got a call from the Autobytel.com dealer that had sent me the bland, generic e-mail response last week. Seemed nice, rattled off a few cars he had available. Had the same set up as the tested car last night, but in blue, for a quote of $28,400. Obviously, not worth the extra 90 mile drive as given, but we'll see how well he "plays."

I'll keep you guys informed as the day rolls on!

JB

bast2 · May 2001

Spridledog: My wife and I parked our "tester" in a grocery store parking lot last night and just kept giving the A4 a good looking over. We jumped in and out of the back seat, which is also what I've been very concerned about. when I put the front passenger seat in a reasonably comfortable position for me (I'm 6'..my legs were slightly bent) I then hopped in the back directly behind that passenger seat. I was just fine. No I wouldn't want to drive cross-country in it, but for a basic drive, I've determined it wasn't a problem. AND if I hopped in the back seat with the driver seat in position for my wife, the room was VERY comfortable.

We're in a similar position. We're dinks (double income, no kids), but kids aren't far off at all, so we're taking that into serious consideration.

I've now decided the A4 does it all for me. It's fuel efficient, AWD will be great for tricky weather, above average trunk for the size of the car, and best of all, the A4 will very much satisfy my need for a performance car.

Now, as long as it doesn't fall apart on day #1461, I'll be very satisified.

JB

lauk0dg · May 2001

AND I like it.

Anyhow, I agree with JB about the backseat. I'm also 6ft and after adjusting the driver's seat to a comfy position, I hopped into the backseat and although the knees kinda brush against the back of the driver's seat, it's not inhabitable. No x-country drives but around town, no problem. I wouldn't put 5 people in the car though, as the Quattro shaft (in addition to the exhaust piping)under the middle rear seat really takes up legroom.

Hehe there will be one leap year in the 4yr warranty JB, so when it falls apart at Day #1461, you still have one day to fix it for free :>

About child seats.....can't really say for myself as I don't have kids yet, but a coworker of mine has a 2.8 and her child seat fits well in the backseats. Others can comment on this.....

About the extra ad fees, I know it can be an extra add-on, but I'd think at the end of a model year, AoA would pay for most of the ad fees to "get rid" of the old bodystyle and ad for the newer one (yuck!!).

Yeah scirocco, I think your dealer was totally BS about forgetting to add that on. In fact, when I got mine, I only need to get a new title for the car and transfer the existing plates. You would expect they have done this so many times and they won't mess up the numbers. Guess what, they throw out a bunch of numbers, add them all up by themselves, and tell me what's the total to write the check for. Being a guy who likes numbers, I couldn't help but add them up. Uh-oh, wrong total. Asked them specifically what each item charge is, and finally figure out they put the $$ for applying new plates (I don't need them) in addition to the title that I really need. Of course they apologized deeply for that, but just to let you guys know, don't be fooled by these "prestigious" dealers who sell prestigious cars.

Exhaust tips: Yeah I thought about getting those for $40 at ClairParts, but then I read something at AW saying someone did polish the stock tips with a moderately coarse sandpaper and it's shiny and got the "look" of aluminum. MMMM maybe I should try that, and in case it looks terrible, I will get the chrome tips from Clair.

Mats: Hey Scirocco, you got those AudiSports ones for $99?? How deep are the grooves?? You think it can hold snow/water well?

Transponder: OMG, even Jettas got the chips in the key?? Damn.....oh well, it's too late for me to trade mine in for a Jetta, right? Just kidding :>..... I'm thinking though, maybe the Jetta doesn't have the motion sensors and can't deter to thief until he/she got into the car and try to fool with the igniter.

Secret codes: Yeah I thought about doing the auto lock/unlock at 15mph one cuz I had that in my Accord and it's handy. About the windows up/down one, I don't know, cuz I don't want the windows to go down everytime I disarm the alarm. There is also another one that unlock all the doors instead of driver's side only then other doors....personally I found the original config being useful as I don't want to be carjacked if they can climb into the car from other doors. Nah I am not going to buy the VAG tool....it's pretty expensive right? how much is it? There are some guys in the local Audi club that have that, so I might just ask for a favor.

Better get 'em soon or the 02 ones will roll in.

Billy

pat · May 2001

I would like to ask you folks a question....

Would you be interested in having your own space in our Owners Club section?

For those who might not know, the Owners Club is a dedicated folder where you can have as many discussions as you would like. Take a look at some of them here to get an idea of the possibilities. You will see that the various clubs have separate discussions for things like introducing yourselves, posting pictures, maintenance issues and whatever other related topics the groups may find of interest.

This discussion will remain here on the Sedans board, but will be linked to the Owners Club folder as well, making it accessible from either place. We can also link the other Audi discussions on this board and any other TH board to the Owners Club.

You can "subscribe" to the entire owners folder, which makes reading all the posts in the various discussions very easy to do. You will also eventually have the opportunity to have regularly scheduled owners' chats if you are interested in doing so.

Let me know if you have any questions. If this sounds like a good idea, just give me a couple of positive posts and I'll get the ball rolling.

Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards

lauk0dg · May 2001

That'll be great, Pat!! I also like the idea of linking up other Audi related sites to the Owners Club and to this discussion.

BIG thumbs up on this :> Thanks Pat.

Billy

rj123 · May 2001

Spridledog,
I had a similar question (post 942) a couple of days ago; you may want to take a look at that post and the several helpful responses that followed.
I looked at the A4 again and found out something useful: an A4 *without* power seats has more rear legroom than an A4 with power seats. The reason is that a power front seat is housed on top of an oval shaped frame. If you're sitting in the back seat and try to slide your feet forward under the front seat to relieve stress on your knees, this oval shaped frame blocks your feet. In an A4 without power front seats, this big oval shaped frame isn't there and you can slide your feet forward (you may also need to raise the front seat a little). After noticing this I'm not that worried about the A4's rear legroom, because I can definitely live without power seats. One caveat to what I've said though - I was going back and forth between two A4's at the dealer, and one of them may have been a 98 model. I need to go back and compare two 2001 A4's, one without power seats and one with. I'm pretty sure it would still make a difference. I don't know exactly what option power seats come with, does anyone? Anyway hope this helps, the S4 you're shopping for sure sounds nice. -RJ

rj123 · May 2001

Another thing - I'm 5'8''. If you're over 6' then the backseat issue may be another story!

lauk0dg · May 2001

The 2001 A4 1.8T's do not come standard nor available as an option for power seats. If you want a power seat, you need to go for the 2.8 or the S4. So RJ, if you are just in the market for a 2001 1.8T, don't worry about getting one with power seats and cut the rear legroom down.

By the way, my 96 Accord offers similar rear legroom anyways. After adjusting the driver's seat for a comfy position (I'm 6ft), what I got for rear legroom is comparable to the A4.

Billy

bast2 · May 2001

Billy: You're right on the money. The legroom was the last glitch holding me back from the A4 and causing me to continue to consider the Passat. But after last night I'm thoroughly convinced the A4 is the one. After jumping in and out of the Passat, no doubt its unbelievably comfortable, but realized the samething that hit me when I test drove it...it's out and out a family car. It drives very well, loved it, but didn't give me the same enthusiasm as the A4 to go, go, go....

As for manually adjustable seats in the 1.8T, I found they fall right into any position I need to be extremely comfortable. And it's so rare to find such seats with height adjustments, a major benefit that both my wife and I found equally valuable. The adjustable lumbar support is fantastic, too. It's going to be just fine for 4 adults to take a spin.

By the way, the dealer called me back just before lunch. He found a couple of cactus green A4's for consideration, one in particular. However, it doesn't have the quattro celebration pkg., it has the premium package, so it must be a car that's been around a while. Makes me wonder a bit. It has quattro, sunroof, ESP, cold weather and sticker is $30,290. I'm going through the specs on Edmunds and Kelley and can't quite make it work out, don't know what I'm missing.

As for the car tested last night, I said I might consider if he got the price down to $27,400, but more interested in the green and that he should check on availablity. I'll be interested to see how this plays out. Right now I'm content to be patient and ride it out and do what it takes.

JB

lauk0dg · May 2001

Wow a couple of cactus green's....where are you from again?? I've yet to see one in Chicago.

Anyhow, the one you mentioned with the Premium pkg is a 2001.0, and yup it's been around for quite a while, and I'd expect the mileage on that one to be higher than anything you saw if it got multiple test drives.

Reason that the Edmunds calculator doesn't work out the MSRP: the Premium pkg goes for a whopping $1,200 for the EXACT same options as the Celebration pkg on 2001.5 cars which only goes for $500. It's something that AoA does to speed up the process of getting rid the current bodystyle and drive up sales. Considering they put the sunroof, the Homelink system and the auto dimming mirrors (both in and out) in the package, it's worth $1,200 definitely, but if you get that, you are wasting $700 and you are getting a car that've been sitting in the lot for quite some time. Of course if the trade-off is you get ESP, the right color, the right price, etc, go ahead and seal the deal!

Another difference on the 2001.0 cars: the shipping costs is $550, vs 2001.5 cars at $575, although I have the Celebration pkg, meaning I have the 2001.5, but the shipping is only $550. I'm thinking, maybe initial 2001.5 models didn't have the higher shipping charge.

Good luck!

Billy

bast2 · May 2001

Well, just got word. Dealer is willing to come down $100 from price quoted on the test car from last night. Still puts it $1000 over his "supposed" invoice price and about $1300 over what I'm figuring (though ad costs may be in there causing the increased figure). I'm a bit insulted, but will play the game. Going to make some calls elsewhere and see where the chips fall tonight.

Didn't even sound like he made an attempt on confirming availablity of the other color. I'm disappointed, but even more motivated.

JB

scirocco22 · May 2001

oh man! our own owner's board??? jeez, Pat, I'm trying to CUT DOWN on the time I spend here on Edmunds! Now I'll never get any sleep! lol :P

JB-- patience, Jeff, Patience. Sounds like you're doing a good job so far though. I know you've heard that if you get too emotional and start to jump into it too fast that you could possibly regret it. I know my timing was off a bit when I was in the negotiation process for if I held off for as little as one or two more days, I could have saved even more money. Continued good luck!

Billy--

transponders: Transponder III is standard on the Passat (except the GLX for some strange reason) and all Audi models except the A4. This is in addition to the standard anti-theft system found in our cars. *double argh!*

reprogramming the locks: No, the windows won't open/close everytime you set the alarm using the remote. It's a *selective* function in that you probably have to hold the lock button down for 2 seconds or something like that. Do you remember the Jetta TV commercial last year where the guy excitedly shows his wife how cool it is to open the windows and sunroof by using the remote and the wife just rolls her eyes? lol.

floor mats: After much research and inquiry, I found that the "AllWeather Sport Mats" (ZAW-179-004-BLK) and the "AllWeather Premium Mats" (ZAW-179-001) are the exact same thing with the exception of the logo. The sport mats have the Audi sport logo and the premium mats have a silver A4 logo. The premium comes in both black and clay but the sport just comes in black. The silver logo complements our cars perfectly so I chose that one for $12 less. And yes, the grooves are really deep--much better than the Weathertech ones that a friend of mine has. Clair also sells the Weathertech. Clair's prices were about $25-30 less (including the difference between shipping costs vrs. the local sales tax rate savings assuming that you're not in Massachusetts) than what I could buy them for locally. http://www.clairparts.com/access_top.htm

VAG-COM: here's a place that advertises on AW where you can buy a "psuedo" VAG tool for $199 including the software. Sounds pretty good. Like I say, I'd consider getting it if I had a better laptop. http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/index.html

busy car boards: speaking of busy car boards, have you been to the BMW 3-series board? Man, now that's a busy board--got us beat by a long shot. Seems like there's a new post on that board every few minutes!

scirocco22 · May 2001

Here's the proper link to the Clair Accessories Page:

http://www.clairparts.com/shop/accessories.cfm?do=list&&cat_id=218

scirocco22 · May 2001

Billy, what I said about the "selective" lock funtion on the programming of the door locks, maybe didn't make too much sense... let me see, let's see if this makes more sense: when you use the remote to open the windows/sunroof, the door/doors will also unlock. Conversely, when you use the remote to close the windows/sunroof, the door/doors will automatically lock. But I'm pretty sure that every time you unlock your car using the remote that the windows and the sunroof will automatically open... that would seem ridiculous. lol.

lauk0dg · May 2001

Hehe scirocco, there you go, that's exactly something I don't understand how's it's achievable. One thing for sure, if you *accidentally* open the windows while you only want to unlock the doors, you're going to put extra wear and tear on the window and sunroof motors and those things, especially the sunroof motor, is weak according to AudiWorld. Plus if it happens right after your wash/dry your car.....oops, water marks everywhere on all the windows.

By the way, I thought that VW Jetta dude used the key on the door lock, turn it to the left, and the windows go down. Did he use his remote??? Anyhow it's a cool thing and I did the exact same thing to my girlfriend, and she showed better (yet not as exciting as a guy) reactions than the girl in the commercial. :> Alright I'm not being a sexist here so stop flaming me please :>

Definitely would check out the mats @ Clair.....I was thinking to get the AudiSports ones before you mentioned that silver A4 logo mats.....so did you get the clay or the black ones with the A4 logo?

Yeah the forum over at AudiWorld (www.audiworld.com) definitely gets busier than here.....they got new posts every minute over there, and if you skip a day over there, you need to go back 10 pages.

Drive on, y'all!!

Billy

scirocco22 · May 2001

Billy-- maybe you're right, maybe the guy in the Jetta commercial didn't use the remote. I initially thought he was using the remote until you mentioned that he might have been using the door lock to operate the windows. It was a funny commercial none-the-less! lol.

I got the black A4 premium mats cuz I got black carpets. You've got opal gray, right?--can't tell if clay would be better than black with that but I'd think that black would be better (just read a post on AW and the guy said that the clay ones didn't go with his opal gray http://forums.audiworld.com/a4/msgs/242499.phtml or http://forums.audiworld.com/a4/msgs/247653.phtml. ). I was going to give you some URL's of pics of the Premiums, the AudiSports, the Weathertechs and some other recommendations but why don't you do what I did and put "mats" into the search page over at AW (check only the A4 box) and you can read and view the pics of the different posts for yourself about the pros and cons of the above mentioned choices for the mats. I went with the Audi mats because of the snaps that hold the mats in place but the coverage isn't as good as with the other alternatives. Some guy went to K-mart and bought a pair of front mats for $20 that he thought was much better than the Audi mats http://forums.audiworld.com/a4/msgs/245526.phtml -- you'll also be able to view the mats I got if you look at Shabbis' pics on this thread). But go read all the posts before you make up your mind.

No, I just meant the BMW 3-series forum here at Edmunds! Have your ever taken a look over at that board? That's Edmund's busiest board. It seems like people are posting every few minutes day and night!

lauk0dg · May 2001

Thanks for the posts.....funny the guy's onyx's interior looks purple in the pics :>

They look smaller than I thought though. Especially the rear ones.....I have some Wal-Mart mats front and rear and they're pretty big and cover up the same amount of area as the ones the other dude got from KMart. MMM.....should I be spending that $99 on carwashes or mats..... :>

The A4 logo is kinda cool though.

Billy

bast2 · May 2001

Just had a different dealer fax over invoices on what he had in his inventory: 2 brilliant blacks and 2 santorin blues (1 w/ESP 1 w/out). Not interested in the black but considering the blue. I've seen them and don't mind it. Looks like the green was ggggggone, my loss. Wife likes the silver better anyhow.

Thoughts on the Santorin blue? Do you see many?

Interesting tidbit, the one blue without ESP is set up exactly like the silver tested Mon. It's official, that salesman (from Mon. night) overstated the invoice by exactly $400, according to the invoice I have sitting in front of me for the same car in blue.

JB

spridledog · May 2001

I apologize if this has been addressed previously - I looked back a ways and couldn't find anything. When is the 2002 A4 going to be available to buy? I'm trying to decide whether I should wait for the new A4 3.0, or get a good deal on a 2001 S4 right now. Thanks for any responses.

bast2 · May 2001

Spridledog: according to the various dealers I've spoken with on my "shopping sprees" to date,they've already started taking orders on the 2002s. But, sounds like they won't have anything on the lot until, possibly, September.

JB

mmcbride1 · May 2001

What kind of mileage are you guys with the 1.8T Q getting? I'm at about 22-23 with mostly city driving. I can't seem to keep my foot out of the go pedal

scirocco22 · May 2001

Mike-- yup, that's about what I've been getting... maybe a little less because I've been disregarding the "4,000 rpm until 1,000 miles" breakin-in rules (see previous posts). Each time I drive it, I'll pretty much take it easy until the engine oil warms up and then several times during that drive, I'll run in up so that it touches 5,000-5,500 rpm before shifting. I know many disagree with this but I'm still under the belief that this is good for the engine during the break-in period. I guess I'll see later on but personally I don't think I'll have anything to worry about. As for gas mileage, I've heard that it gets better and better as time goes by (it better, especially knowing that premium is possibly going to be over $3/gal this summer! :P )

markcincinnati · May 2001

The Cincinnati dealers are taking orders for 2002 A4 3.0's (6spd or Tip) Sport Package etc.

Estimate 3 - 5 months del.

markcincinnati · May 2001

I can't remember all the features that you can have "programmed" into your Audi, but here are couple.

1. Auto lock / auto unlock (works on TT's, A4's, A6's and A8's)
2. Headlights on w/wipers

The windows and sunroof, if open will close automatically if you insert the key into the driver's door and hold it in the locked position for four seconds.

lauk0dg · May 2001

So your dilemma is 2002 A4 3.0 or 2001 S4.....MMM if I were you, I will answer that in 0.00001 sec....I'll damn sure take a 2001 S4. It's faster, it's a 2nd production year car so theoretically they have less problems than a 1st production year 3.0 V6 engine. OF course you can argue that the V6 3.0 engine doesn't have turbos and they have less to fix than a BI-turbo charged V6....whew speaking of the BI-turbos made me scream, "I WANT an S4."

About the mileage, you just got a new one too mmcbride right? I heard that you can't really compare mileage till the car is up for the 5k service. All the junk residue in your oil is going to put more friction on moving parts and reduce your mileage. For comparison sake, I got 22-23 mpg with local stop & go driving weekdays and highway driving weekends. So yeah it's comparable to what you got.

Santorin huh? Yeah it's a nice color. A more mature and classic color than the sporty yellow/green/silver colors. My dealer put a Santorin A4 in the showroom so that tells you how confident he is. Have you seen the color on the lot? Personally I like it, but silver is still my top choice.... BUT Nogaro for my S4 please :>

Billy

Audi A4 2004 and earlier

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