Honda Civic vs. Hyundai Elantra

elantra00 · February 2001

I'm in total agreement with Backy. When you get up in the upper teens, the golf is an excellent choice. A lot of equipment for the money, solid as a rock, very fun to drive, tight handling and beautiful inside and out. Now that is one sharp car!

parkchester · February 2001

1-Colma (Serramonte)
2-San Jose (Bob Lewis)---best prices
3-San Jose (Stevens Creek)
4-Fremont (Bob Lewis)
5-Gilroy
6-Dublin
7-Hayward
8-San Leandro---best prices
9-Oakland (Val Strough)
10-Richmond (Doten)
11-Vallejo
12-Santa Rosa
13-Fairfield
14, 15, 16--(hour drive away is Sacramento & Stockton)

jshrieve · February 2001

1-Colma (Serramonte) is closed. I checked. They closed a month ago. If they were still open, that'd be 15 minutes away (good).

2&3-San Jose, 1 hour away
4-Fremont, 1 hour (or more)
5-Gilroy, 1.5 hours (where I went)
6-Dublin, 40 miles but across the bay bridge -- 1 hour away, minimum, multiple during weekdays. Same for 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11. Minimum 1 hour.
12-16, all 1.5+ to 2 hours away.

I'm talking realistic driving times with normal traffic, from within the city, not the edge of the city.

Basically, Colma was the ONLY Hyundai dealer on the SF bay pennisula and they closed. Gotta believe this cuts down Hyundai buys for anyone in SF, South SF, Daly City, Pacifica, San Mateo, Redwood City, etc.

tazereli · February 2001

Have you considered the outback sport? I realize that this is a wagon, but the difference between a five door hatch and a five door wagon isnt that much. Now of course the outback will be priced much higher than the elantra but you also get AWD and more room with a wagon and subaru's bulletproof quality. Consider this one if you could use the awd. The AWD also helps with the handling of the car. Better yet wait for the impreza wrx wagon when it comes out in 22 days. 227hp and a deleriously low price for what you get
>>>$23-24K www.imprezawrx.com check it out!!! i am seriously considering tradin in my civic and leasing the wrx sedan in wr blue pearl and 17" wheels. any way just wanted to give you other options

parkchester · February 2001

I shopped santa rosa, fairfield, san leandro, richmond, san jose, oakland & sacramento. Called gilroy, dublin, vallejo, hayward, modesto over the phone. Getting below TMV price became a little "game" for me.

Mid-day, I've gone from Union Square in SF to Dublin in just over a half hour. Sacramento to Oakland, just over an hour. San Jose to Oaklnad, just over a half-hour. (IF you use your head and PLAN the time of day/week....)

You are probably one of the people I fly past while I'm cruising around. I think you should probably speed up a little. Try the left lane at a consistent 80 mph. You'll get a lot more done!

jshrieve · February 2001

Getting below TMV is no problem. Mock my speeds if you like, I go ~75-85 in the left lane as traffic permits.

Mid-day during a weekday is the lightest traffic time there is (that dealerships are open). Try making the same trips at 6-7pm.

Yes, you can save some time if you hit all the east bay sites in the same day, which is possible on a weekend but for most of who have full time jobs, it's not possible during the week.

Anyway, I stand by my statement that there is no Hyundai dealer on the entire SF pennisula, which is home to a few million people and 500+ sqmi.

But hey, if it makes you feel good to think of yourself as something special, go right ahead. I'll not get in your way.

vadp · February 2001

kymcamp,
thank you for your response.
One more question. According to the EPA estimates you can expect to get about 30 mpg on the freeway. Seems quite low. I wonder if your real life numbers differ.

daividh · February 2001

Thanks for the suggestions, guys. When I bought the two Honda hatches, I lived 27 miles and 54 miles away from my job, respectively (the things you'll put up with not to make your kid change high schools!).

With work only 12 miles away now (she graduated, we moved), 40 mpg highway w/the AC running (both cars) is no longer a necessity now.

I've never really considered a Golf. Dad had a Rabbit diesel in the 70's - slow, ugly/cheap interior -that turned me off. Also, with German labor costs, it's getting harder to think of German cars as a VALUE. Might be worth looking at, tho.

Gotta admit I've always lusted after the Outback. More money than I'd like to spend, but nice car! I'd consider springing for an L or a Brighton, if they still build 'em.

But from what I've seen, the Elantra 5-door has the room I need, plus it looks GOOD. Gonna have to wait and check it out!

- D.

mkwong1 · February 2001

I have a remote starter that I wanna have installed in my 2000 Elantra, but the dealer said that it's not recommended... any truth to that??

tazereli · February 2001

Since you seem to have liked the Subaru wagons, maybe it is worth the wait until the 2002 impreza debuts. subaru is going to make the 2.5L engine the standard in place of the 2.2L. 165 hp will surely make a difference from 142hp. Im not sure of the prices but they should not increase tht much. Id say $500 tops. If you are looking for a sporty wagon that is fun to drive you cant really beat the impreza. The awd helps to add to the enjoyment factor. Anyway I hope you will at least consider the impreza. You are doing youself a diservice if you dont.

kymcamp · February 2001

Vadp-The EPA estimate does seem low, so far in a mix of city and highway I'm geting about 33 mpg, and I'm not driving for economy either. Oddly enough, the Transport Canada estimates are 39 mpg highway and 29 mpg city. I find the TC estimates always to be a bit to optimistic, but the EPA seems to be pessimistic. The car is the same in both countries, so I can't explain the discrepancy. However, the manual recommends premium unleaded fuel (91 octane), a lower octane fuel might bring down the gas mileage.

hkchan · February 2001

Premium (91 octane) unleaded for a Protege? There're two methods of measuring octane.

kymcamp · February 2001

Yes that is premium, using the same calculation as they use at the gas pump. The other way, even though it would be "91" octane, would let me use 87 octane gas, but alas it is not to be. However, the Mazda dealer says I can use mid grade gas. The Protege isn't unique in this respect, all of a sudden premium gas is no longer demanded just by luxury and sport cars. A lot of 2001 models are asking for it. I'm suspicious of dealings between manufacturers and oil companies.

hkchan · February 2001

Would you please quote the owner's manual word-for-word?

kymcamp · February 2001

Okay, word for word here:

Your Mazda will perform best with premium unleaded fuel having an octane rating (antiknock index) of at least 91 [(R+M)/2 method].

In contrast, my Mom's 1993 323 reads
Your Mazda will perform best with regular unleaded fuel having a research octane number (antiknock index) of at least 91 [(R+M)/2 method, 87]

So yes, the 2001 Protege *does* ask for premium unleaded fuel.

hkchan · February 2001

I don't know what "will perform best" means (seriously, it doesn't say it requires). Since you're in Canada, I'll try to see what Mazda USA says. There's been less and less hype from the oil companies about "premium" gasoline (cleaner, lowers maintenance cost etc). And you're sure other '01 cars are doing the same, right?

backy · February 2001

I saw a post on another board about something called the Total Quality Index by Strategic Vision, Inc. I never heard of this organization or survey before. Apparently they ask some 450,000 owners to rate their cars, as follows:

"Strategic Vision, Inc.'s Total Quality Index first considers problems, assets, and expectations, and then looks at the owners' satisfaction, the perception of quality, emotional commitment to the vehicle, retention and loyalty, the owners' sense of security, freedom and pride, their sense of the value and the lasting impression that the vehicle creates in building a reputation for the 'brand.'," reports Dr. Edwards.

Here's their ratings for small cars:

Compact Car:

Rank: Vehicle: TQI Score:

1 VW Jetta 873

2 Saturn LS Sedan 861

3 Pontiac Grand Am 852

(Question: why do they rank Jetta as a Compact and Golf as a Small car, when they are based on the same platform, except one has a hatchback?)

Small Car:

Rank: Vehicle: TQI Score:

1 VW Golf 864

2 Ford Focus 843

3 Toyota Echo 840

Others above segment average:

Saturn SL Sedan 837

Dodge Neon 826

Pontiac Sunfire 820

Hyunda Elantra 815

Toyota Corolla 809

That the Golf and Focus ranked pretty high is not surprising; other comparisons, such as Consumer Reports, have ranked those vehicles highly. The Echo's rank surprises me a bit, but maybe it shows that people who buy it get exactly what they are looking for, leading to strong satisfaction and loyalty.

A point of interest for this forum is that the Elantra ranked above average and the Civic did not. But I would question any survey of "total quality" in which Saturn SL, Neon, and Sunfire outranked Corolla and Civic--and even the Elantra. I wouldn't give 2 cents for the Saturn, Neon, or Sunfire, compared to the Elantra, Civic, and Corolla (and Sentra and Protege for that matter). From the criteria, it seems the study has nothing to do with how the cars perform, or long term reliability.

Here is their site if you want to learn more:

http://www.vision-inc.com/index.html

warnerlamb · February 2001

The Index is interesting, but not too useful for evaluating a vehicle. It's all about owners' emotional responses to their vehicles. What it is really evaluating is whether the people that choose a particular vehicle are in fact choosing a vehicle that is "right for them" according to their own expectations (which are influenced by advertising etc). In other words, is the vehicle marketed correctly.

I want a good car; as long as I manage to find one, I don't care about how good the marketing is!

kymcamp · February 2001

Well, I should mention what it says after the bit about premium fuel.

"Fuel with a lower rating could cause the emission control system to lose effectiveness. It could alse cause engine knocking and serious engine damage."

However, the mazda dealer says mid grade fuel (89 octane) is fine. Regular 87 octane fuel might cause engine knocking they say. Still considering how satisfied I am with the car, I don't mind paying extra for gas.

So far, the Mazda is the only compact car that seems to want premium fuel. However, several mid size and larger cars, and a number of SUV's seem to require it now (Jeep comes to mind). Of course, in a few years it will probably be a moot point as the switch over to fuel cells occurs.

Getting back to the subject of Civic's and Elantra's, I've been seeing a lot more of the Elantra's in the past couple weeks. And the new Civic's sure populated the streets fast. I guess there is something to be said for brand loyalty.

hbrow00 · February 2001

The brochure (U.S.) for the 2001 Mazda Protege prints that "regular unleaded" is the recommended fuel, including for the ES model. The brochure does not contain info for the "MP3" special edition, perhaps that one will take premium?

kymcamp · February 2001

The Canadian brochure also states regular fuel. The manual states premium. The dealer says mid grade. I figure I'll just play safe and go for the premium. I bus to work, so I don't use all that much gas during the week.

sjslo · March 2001

I looked at the 2001 Civic sedan and Elantra. I must say, when compared to the Elantra I was not at all impressed with the Civic. The Hyundai was simply the better deal. I paid 12,500 before taxes and registration for a car with automatic, a/c, full power, pretty decent stereo, fully independent front and rear suspensions, keyless entry, et al. The Civic, with the same config was over 16,500! Throw in the warranty, and I'll go Hyundai every time. My initial impressions, based on the first 1000 miles are excellent. The car is very quiet and displays a level of refinement that I would have never expected. The engine is very responsive and the car screams for me to push it through corners. It is also quite a nice car on the highway. I do a lot of driving from NJ to CT on I-95, and the car has yet to fail me. And the styling, it looks a lot better than the civic.

isellhondas · March 2001

That's all that matters!

Enjoy!

formula94 · March 2001

I paid 12.7k (before ttl) for option 4 '01 elantra. Has been in shop 3 weeks with electrical problem. Seems to be running well.. about 3500 miles and 30mpg.

cyanogel · March 2001

Sounds like you got a good deal.
Can you tell me where you bought it? I live in NJ too.
Thanks a lot.

sjslo · March 2001

It was purchased at the Dodge/Hyundai dealership on Route 4, in Paramus. Where in NJ are you? The dealership experience was quite good, and since you're dealing with a Hyundai there's quite a bit of room to negotiate. Remember though, that's the price before fees...btw, the car just keeps begging me to drive it. =-)

cyanogel · March 2001

I can feel your joy.
I live in Princeton, so seems a bit far. I guess your price is after rebate.
Did you get option 3?

sjslo · March 2001

Yes, the price was after rebate. Princeton is a bit far, but I'm sure there's a dealership around you. Like I said, the price isn't that difficult to negotiate. It was actually package 2, I really wanted CD and ABS, but good luck finding an Elantra equipped with ABS.

It's Silver btw...

backy · March 2001

You must drive a LOT to put 58k on your '01 Elantra already! I'm glad to hear it's holding up for you so far, because I won't have that many miles on my Elantra until around 2010, and long-term reliability has been a concern of mine based on Hyundai's history.

Personally I appreciate the input in this forum from a Honda salesperson like isellhondas, as it makes discussions more interesting and provides different viewpoints. After all, this is a Civic vs. Elantra forum. Plus car salespeople need something to do during those "dead times" during the day. :]

sky6 · March 2001

Hi,
Can anyone tell me what a good price for the Elantra 2001 (VE) would be (I live in Surrey,BC)? I have test driven the Civic,Corolla, Echo, Protege, and Sentra.Like the Elantra but now I have to do the negotiating and would appreciate some advice.
Thanks!

elantra00 · March 2001

No way in hell you can put 58,000 miles on your car in the same year you bought. I dont think its possible....Unless you jack the car up and spin the wheels all day long...lol.

Cyangol.... bring your car to brad benson hyundai on route 1 in monmouth junction. I think they are pretty good. my friend brings her elantra down there and she hasn't had any complaints. so i assume the service is good. after all, they are the second largest hyundai dealer in new jersey.

interluk · March 2001

Hi,

You must do propaganda work for Hyundai. If you "recently" bought your Elantra--say two months ago--and you've logged 56K miles, that means you've driven almost 1k miles per day.
Assuming you eat and sleep like the rest of us and also perfom normal bodily functions, it's not likely.
Even if you bought it six months ago, you'd have to have driven over 300 miles per day.
Again possible, but unlikely.

C'mon, fess up!

ebekins · March 2001

The person who wrote that shows a Canadian flag, so could it be that he has 58 "kilometers" on his/her car? Of course, that's actually pretty low, only about 25 or 26 miles. Just a thought.

interluk · March 2001

Good point, good observation. Still, that's 33,600 miles and over 500 miles per day at two months.
No point in this so I'll drop it.

elantra00 · March 2001

I think Paseano made a mistake. Maybe 5,800 miles? or 5k or 8k miles, which is above average, but still attainable. However, I once saw a subaru that was 2 years old and had 105,000 miles on it in the Auto Shopper Magazine. Could be a mistake. So, we ll wait to see what paseno has to say!

justin · March 2001

my mom drives over 100 miles a day in her 95 grand am V6, also drives from VA to MO three times a year......she has 190-ish thousand miles.....

car still runs strong. ALL HIGHWAY miles....

it is possible to drive a lot....

sfchew · April 2001

We just bought a Hyundai. What helped us choose Hyundai was the Feb 2001 Consumer Report. They very much liked the car and the biggest question mark was reliability.
Also, in the March 30th San Jose Mercury Newspaper. The reviewer also gave a thumbs up to the Elantra, again reliability is yet to be determined. Hope this helps. So far we are very much impressed with the car. It is very comfortable and spacious

sfchew · April 2001

Check out the www.caranddriver.com. They have a excellent review of the Elantra.

ebekins · April 2001

I forgot about this thread, but the truth was we were down to these two cars, the Honda Civic vs. the Hyundai Elantra. We chose the Hyundai because we liked the fit and feel, and because it was about $3K less than the Civic. I agree that the new Civic is a great car, and I would have been happy with it. But I also favored the Hyundai because Honda is so common around here in San Diego. I just don't like having the same thing everyone else does! I'm sure the response to that is 'if people are buying them, it's because they're good cars!' But I believe that Hyundai has turned the corner and can be considered a reliable car. Time will tell. But I like what I see in Hyundai, and I think there is a bright future. I really like the new XG300. And my Elantra doesn't look bad either.

In any case, I'm betting that Hyundai will be around for a long time, with good looking products at prices less than the Japanese. Honda is great, and they deserve to be priced higher, but I'm happy with my Hyundai.

justin · April 2001

from the looks of things, you can't really lose with either of these cars. The new Elantra seems quite stylish, in a classy, Protege-esque way. The Civic is all Honda....but has a little more flair than before. Both drive quite well in my opinion.

xjs5 · April 2001

I hate to say this but the new Civic is decontented as is the Accord. Hondas used to
be smooth as silk- non-vibrating floor pans-
engines so quiet you did not know if they were
running. Those days are gone. Check out
an Accord, Civic, Corolla, Legacy and feel the
vibration and cheapness. I can no longer
defend Honda against Hyundai- maybe the Hyundai
is not super- ultra LEV but build quality vs.
Honda- six of one, half a dozen of the other.

sobers · April 2001

liufei · April 2001

Honda never known for the quietness in their engine. Thats Toyota strong point. Honda excel on making reliable engine with a sporty flair to it (with high rpm to boot). The older generation Civic gives you that buzz whenever the engine is rev-up.
Regarding decontention, I think all manufacturer did that to a degree, to help maintain the price-range.

backy · April 2001

You could say all manufacturers are going the de-content route--except Hyundai, especially with the Elantra. Sometimes you don't notice the cost cutting, like when Toyota cut the number of parts on the Camry's front bumper with the current generation. Sometimes you do notice, like when many cars dropped the "reset" button on the clock. I always appreciated that feature, since there is one radio station I can tune in that issues a tone on the hour, and I just push the reset button and that's that. At least Hyundai put a reset button on the Elantra's clock (and a separate clock at that, not an in-radio clock)--God bless 'em. I guess that's one reason I bought the Elantra--it didn't seem to be de-contented, especially considering its price. Or maybe they hid the de-contenting better than in some cars?

Re Civic engine smoothness, I thought the '84-'87 and '88-'91 generation engines were pretty smooth; I owned cars from both of those generations. The '88 I had was especially smooth. I was reading the Consumer Reports Used Car Guide the other night, and it mentioned that the Civic engine got noisier in the '92-'95 generation, then quieter again in the '96-'00 generation. If that's the pattern, does that mean the '01 model is noisier?

mpgman · April 2001

On the surface, you get a lot for your money. When you go to trade it, you'll be singing a different tune. The Civic may cost $3k more at the outset, but in a few years, you'll get more for it. A lot more. Now this won't matter if you keep a car forever, but it will if you trade every 3-4 years or get it totalled. Elantra should up the ante by making ABS standard. The starting price is competitive enough to absorb the cost, and the safety draw, especially if coupled with traction control, would really make the choice between the 2 interesting.

bpetersen · April 2001

any suggestions going to get for 9000 has 4333 miles , in alright shape power verything , and a spoiler ?

sobers · April 2001

Hows this deal ?
I was shopping for my friend & got Civic LX for 200 over invoice + 100 for Keyless Entry(Installed) + 48Doc + 184 Guards/Mats. Total out the door price comes to be $16425.

liljonson · April 2001

i own a 2000 elantra and i have to say that this car is alot better than the new civics. the old civics were and always be the best cars made but when it comes down to it Honda has been getting worse the past couple of years. All i hear is complaints about the new ones, but i still hear good things about the old ones. that tells me something. honda has to shapen up or they will be overtaken by other competitors in sales.

elantra3 · April 2001

I can't speak about honda civics because I don't own one but I can speak of the elantra!here are my views the elantra seems to have a solid feel to it I have a 2001 with a 5 speed base model $12,000 but compared to say a corlloa or altima I think you get what you pay for the elantra has a very noisy motor its not very smooth at idle,performance is fair to middle motor needs much more refinement. air cond. gets cold than gets warm. heat is good,handling is not bad for this class. gas mileage is not good at least on my elantra 218 miles at 13.9 gallons of gas clocked 12 times. also at 70mph wind noise in cabin is something that has to be heard to be belied. am not saying that elantra is a bad car but it has a long way to go before its up to japanese standards but i do belive there on the right track would i buy another hyundai? proberly not i would rather spend the extra few thousand and get whats already perfected i,ve owed toyotas and nissans all my life and have put over 350,000 miles on all of them with just the normal mattinance oil changes,tune ups,etc.

backy · April 2001

After following the posts on the '01 Elantra since its introduction, I believe elantra3's experience is outside the norm. There's definitely something amiss with your car--you should get it into the dealer and use that much-touted warranty to get these problems fixed. I have a 5-speed '01 Elantra, purchased in October (so it was one of the first shipped to the U.S.) and my experience is much different. My Elantra has a smooth engine, both at idle and cruising. It makes some racket at full acceleration, but that is not unusual for this class. Wind noise is practically non-existent, even at 70 mph. In fact, I think the quiet on the highway is quite impressive. Performance is spirited for its class, in line with the 8.3 secs to 60 noted by the reviews. Heat is great, quick to warm up (severely tested this past winter), but it's not warm enough yet for me to test out the a/c performance. Handling is OK; ride seems more tuned for smoothness than handling but it's no slouch. Not as crisp as the Protege, but not as harsh either. My fuel economy has been within the EPA range: 25-28 mpg in around-town driving, with no long trips (EPA is 25 city, 33 hwy). The 15 MPG experienced by elantra3 seems way out of line; either you're stomping on the gas all the time or there's something wrong under the hood. I've owned Corollas and Sentras (Altima is in the next class up; Sentra is the direct competitor for Elantra) and I think Elantra compares well with both of them, in both performance and value. Corolla and Sentra have a slight edge in engine smoothness I think, but Elantra has the edge in power (leaving out the Sentra SE, priced way over the Elantra), comfort, room (esp. in rear), style, and value. Just as I don't think the Civic is a bad car because of a few problems on the new '01 models (radios, computer, sticky windows etc.), let's not discount the '01 Elantra because of one lemon. They are bound to crop up, especially on a new design.

Honda Civic vs. Hyundai Elantra

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