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Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005
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Comments
http://www.ibiblio.org/rdu/DRLs/studies.htm
"You said your SE GP was totalled, obviously DRLS didn't help you avoid that accident did they?"
Come on gunit, you know as well as I do what the answer to that is. DRLs reduce accident rates and make others more visible, they dont prevent accidents!
"it is ILLEGAL to drive with your fog lights"
DRLs are not fog lights. They never are.
"I will not comment on the DRLS anymore, do what you want"
LOL. Ok.
And when GM may be fined if it doesn't comply with CAFE, they fight for each and every yard in their EPA tests...
As for the new GP having the DRL in the fog lights, you're mistaken. The DRL shares the same assembly as the fog lights, but have separate reflectors and bulbs. IOW, they look like fog lights but they aren't.
;-)
But I've seen a lot of Silverados with only the right DRL on... Something fishy there...
About HID, I'm a little wary of replacement costs: $500 each! I've seen good headlights designs doing better than some HID-equipped cars around town...
The Regal had a strut bar under the hood connecting both front struts. The GT1 does not have the strut bar. Does your GTP have one?
Good luck to you with your new GTP.
Take care
The last 5/6/7 vehicles we have owned; with the exception of a Volvo V70 XC, have exceeded the EPA highway estimates. Can't really say about city since we rarely have a tank with only city miles on it. My 2000 GTP consistently got 30 mpg on the highway doing 65-75 mph. I haven't gotten a full tank on the highway with my 2003 GT, but mixed driving (70/30 hwy/city) I'm consistently getting 25 mpg, which make me think it exceeds EPA estimates....
And I ain't no old Sunday type driver....
What I found was some of my earlier impressions from the auto show and a short test drive have changed a bit.
What I liked:
- The seats - very comfy, I forgot how well cloth "grips" you and gives you a bit more confidence pushing hard into the corners...
- The ride and handling are improved over the previous gen. It had the same Goodyear Eagle LS tires as my 2003 GT so the comparison was quite equal.
- Much reduced road and wind noise.
- Trunk is much more accessible and functional.
I found that the "questionable" cloth pattern sort of grew on me. It didn't bother me as much after a day or so...funny though it did remind me of the pattern is some office furniture or industrial carpets I've seen...
What bothers me:
- I hate to admit it, the longer I had the car, the more the hard plastic on the dash, console... looked worse. It was too shiny, had some parting flash still on areas and the grain pattern was offensive compared to some of the other parts. It really does this car injustice.
- NO GLOVE BOX - not sure what they call that drop down - a shelf?
- The bright RED DIC. It was distracting and you can't adjust the brightness. Overall I found the DIC on the GP pretty worthless.
- The radio and climate control worked fine but the faces and printing on them looked real cheap. Again a real injustice.
I didn't ride in the back seat, but it isn't the greatest. I have sat in worse.
And yes, I have sent my comments to Pontiac.
dialn24: I've never had HUD before either. It does take some getting used to but I like the feature alot.
orwoody: The hard plastic was my biggest complaint after seeing the car at the auto show. But since I bought the car it isn't as offensive as I first thought. Still could be better. I agree the glove box is pretty silly. It's still twice as big as the one in my Cutlass Supreme. I have to disagree on the DIC, however. It has some useful features and I love all the information it provides.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
There is alot of them in my area with that one light on, is that GM Design feature? Hope not...
<<About HID, I'm a little wary of replacement costs: $500 each! I've seen good headlights designs doing better than some HID-equipped cars around town...>>
HID bulbs are NOT $500 to replace and they last longer then Halogen. Which non HID cars have better headlight designs then HID equipped cars? The '97-'03 GP has the most useless hi-beams I have ever used, the regular lamps aren't that great. By comparson the HID on my '01 I30t are the best headlights I have ever used. The '04 GTP should have had HID as an option just like the altima/max have had for years now.
A better feature is the automatic sensor on certain cars that turns the headlights on when it gets dark enough out. Driving without headlights is more of a safety problem. I have seen many people, especially in parking garages or at dusk driving with no lights on.
Highs:
Great engine and transmission
Great radio
Nice leather
Roomy interior and trunk
Lows:
Expensive compared to what you get with some other cars
Cheap cheap cheap plasticy interior
Low back seat
Harsh ride
Wiper stalk gets turned on accidentally very easily
Fit of moldings around carpeting was not installed very well
Notice Honda never mentions its torque rating of 212 at 5000rpm, but always mentions the 240 hp.
Maxima, accord, altima have increased power 25-40% since 1997.
GP is still stuck on 200hp!! In 1997 it was fine, not in 2004.
Why did GM increase the GTP by 20 hp and not do anything with the regular one?
The GT does NOT have enough highway acceleration.
Do about 60 in the GT and put it to the floor, not much. The extra pwr of the GTP is much better.
Interesting that more people who have driven the vehicle are saying how cheap the plastic interior is.
gunit : "The GT does NOT have enough highway acceleration". LOL, those poor people with only 200 HP, how do they live eh?
johnclineii : Probably right on the CTS / GTP issue. Only down side is Cadillac service and insurance is likely to be higher.
Just noticed in the paper this weekend that GM Canada added $1000 cash back to all 03s for the final clearance.
But I like the illumination quality of my Bonneville's headlights.
And, boy, do some HID headlights cause glare!
I like DRL's and I like automatic headlights.
And I suspect that the GT2 will have enough highway acceleration to suit my needs. My Grand Am has plenty in that category, with a smaller enginer.
Drive, then decide.
Even our second car (an Alero) has only a 140hp 2.2L Ecotec in it and I think it's plenty peppy even on the highway.
Something doesn't sound right when GM bumped the SE 3100 engine from 160 hp in 1997 to 175hp, yet they couldn't do the same with the 3800? Come on !!
Same thing, for '04 they bump the S/C 3800 to 260, up from 240, yet they keep the regular 3800 at 200 still? same as 1998 !!
The competition has made such leap and bounds and GM is stuck on the same GT power ratings from 1998....
Every try pulling out from a dead stop with 4 people in the car directly on too a highway with no merge lane? You would then appreciate the extra 40 horse!!
Like you said the GTP gets a more heavy duty version of the 4T65-E Transaxle to handle the extra power. It can take up to 280ft-lbs torque. It can probably take up to 280/300 hp mark, I don't know of the facts on what the rebuild rate of GTP vs GT trannies are. People are probably harder on the GTP. It's a good tranny regardless.
RE: The DRLs issue you were arguing, your points are very weak to put it mildly. Saving gas? Give me a break!! DRLs have been shown to save lives and cut accident rates. Open you mind to other people's comments, your opinion is yours and not the holly grail.
The anti-DRL sites all link to a "how does it work" article that says DRLs would cost the owners a couple of gallons of gas per year.
I had a chance to drive the CTS during a recent GM Auto Show in Motion. The center stack in the CTS is the same material and "gain" pattern as the GP,to my eye. (Drove a GP a few minutes latter) The only difference is on the CTS it only forms the Top and Sides of the radio/HVAC box. There was a softer material on the front.
:-(
Put me in the category that are happy with 200 HP. I would say that most people are most concerned about their acceleration at low to mid speed range. And I still don't understand how a car's accleration can just peter out once you hit 40 mph. Granted it doesn't have the supercharged push of the GTP, but still it has 230 ft lbs of torque! The 3.5 Altima has 45 more HP but only 16 ft lbs torque. The Accord has 40 more HP, but 18 LESS ft lbs torque. The Camry has 10 more HP, but 10 less ft lbs torque.
And furthermore, I don't care that the 3800 engine has had 200 HP for the past 8 years or whatever. It gets the job done as far as I'm concerned. I drove a 240 HP Intrepid SXT and the thing couldn't get out of its own way. I test drove a 200 HP Monte Carlo and the car could spin the wheels at will.
"Review: I ordered not knowing the design...bad mistake...this is one ugly Grand Prix. As Vanilla looking as you can get...what were they thinking? Is there anyone home at Pontiac??? And we thought the Aztech was a joke?
Favorite Features: Rear doors open wide...that about it.
Suggested Improvements: Fire the design team...put them on the island with the Azteck team!!! Start over!!!"
That been said, HP figures can be misleading, as midlifecrisis suggests. As someone has already said here, the torque figures and the shape of its curve is much more important.
A good illustration of these statements was a mid-size test by C&D a few years ago, when a GP GT beat every contender under any performance aspect, even if the others had DOHC and valve timing, such as Accord, Maxima, etc. Yet, one wouldn't read more than one line about that in the article...
So what? That hardly means that people are crying for more power. Most sedans sold are 4 cyl motors with an average of 150hp or less. A 200hp GP is still a very nice and peppy sport sedan, not underpowered in any way. Your obsession with more power is fine, but definitely part of a minority view.
Very well put....
As I have said many times before the 240hp Dodge Intrepid has an inefficient auto tranny which robs alot of hp and is also a heavier/larger car then the W body's. Read previous post
The std 3800 runs out of steam around 40mph, 40-60 is pathetic..
No actually I speak for about 30% of the GP buyers which are GTP buyers. The reason the other 70% don't buy the GTP is because of the money factor, not power factor, both me and you know that. The GTP is about $3k more then a GT. Where else can you get a factory installed supercharger with a 3yr 36k warranty for $3k extra? It would cost you that much more aftermarket. There are many 4 cylinder cars that will blow the doors off a 200 hp 3800 or at least keep right up with it, Civic/Focus etc.
My pwr obsession is shared by 30% of GP buyers who buy GTPs..... If 200hp is good for you then fine, it isn't for me. whatever.
Sorry to brake the news to you but The GP in SE or GT form is NOT a sport sedan. HARDLY.... Only in GTP form do I consider it close to a sport sedan. Sport sedans have 240 or more horsepower by today's standards. A GT with a 0-60 time of 8 to 8.5 seconds is hardly sporty. There are many 4 cylinder cars that run in that time slot today.
In fact the new 2004 GT actualy is slower then the old one..
back in 1997 the GTP was a headturner and powerfull car, today the competition has narrowed the gap big time, while gm rested on its laurels.
Yes I am powered obsessed and have and always will buy the biggest most powerfull engines... also all Maxima and I35 buyers get the 255/265 hp engine standard,
The fact of the matter is that the 240-260hp is NOT $1k more, it is $3k more... most people I know will NOT pay $3k more, it comes down to price, not power. Also when you buy a GTP you get alot more standard features that are options in the GT, like the HUD and std Abs/traction control. You are getting much more then just PWR for that $3k. Also a GTP is worth more resale value then a SE or GT.
I modify my cars... I do race them, so for me more is better, for you 200hp is ok, to each their own.
The GT and SE are not sports sedans in fact the GTP comes close, but front wheel drive limits it.
I do NOT consider my GTP coupe a sports coupe or car. Even with all my mods.
My point made, the majority of people who DO NOT buy the supecharged engine, didn't beacuse they couldnt' afford it, the extra $3k not because they didn't need 240-260 hp.
I havea few friends that would have bought the GTP and wanted it but couldn't do to financial reasons.. so they stuck with the GT and later kicked themselves for it.
>>>That been said, HP figures can be misleading, as midlifecrisis suggests. As someone has already said here, the torque figures and the shape of its curve is much more important.<<<
You are right, you have to compare 0-60 and 1/4 times more then HP or Torque figures... a 215hp INtrigue takes nearly 8 seconds 0-60 while a GTP with only 25 more hp does it in 6.8.
<<>>
yes back then in 1997 or 1998 the GT did break even or beat the competion, but fast forward to NOW, 2004, the GT is still the same car it was back in 1997, same engine, while that same competition has make their cars peform much better, with GM resting on its laurels.