Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005

looking25 · July 2001

JEWEL47 - check post 774, this happened to me a few months ago. I think they reprogrammed the PCM, but I'm not so sure they did anything. It hasn't happened since, but I've been afraid to 'floor it' since.

1998 Grand Prix GTP
32,000 miles
Had heated seat unit replaced
No other problems.

redbeta · July 2001

stnel,
Thanks for the suggestion. I don't think it is a lumbar issue with my passengers. The angle of the back of the seat is too low vs the front of the seat. People complain about feeling like they are sitting in a hole. I need some type of a short, wedge type pillow as an option for passengers to sit on.

All the reviews I have read talk about the support and comfort of the GP seats. I guess the reviewer only sat in the driver's seat.

If I hear of a lumbar solution, I'll let you know.

stnel · July 2001

Good luck on finding a pillow for your passenger seat. I knew when I bought my car that I was going to have a problem with the lumbar support but I'll eventually get it worked out.

theiceman · July 2001

We're still enjoying this car - it seems solid, has plenty of power and is quite comfortable for the 4 of us. We're getting decent mileage - but nowhere near as good as we get with the Bonneville but the GP gets mostly 2nd car driving from us (a lot of short haul stuff but some parallel commuting too) and it is not yet broken in - going on 2 months of ownership and we've just past the 1000 mile mark!

Things we like about the GP: All the important, major things like Style, interior volume and comfort, back-seat room, trunk volume, finish, quality of fabric, carpet, etc. Plus, we prefer the sound system to the one in our Bonneville (our GP has the equalizer). Even little things like the overhead console seem better thought out than the one in our Bonnie. Of course, the really big things are there in spades: nice, useable power (esp. torque) and smooth, effortless shifts.

Things we don't like: Not much actually. The dashboard/instrument panel uses flimsier plastics than I'd like to see - it's especially noticeable on the ashtray - but it's acceptable. Just not on a par with competitive Mazda and Toyota sedans I have owned in the past. This is one of a handful of GM's weaknesses. And... why, oh why doesn't GM have an illuminated gear indicator on the shift console? That would have cost them all of $2.00 to install on the assembly line and, while not a critical necessity, would have eliminated a small gripe about an otherwise extremely well executed car.

Problems so far: 3 problems corrected under warranty: - gasket under spoiler was distorted and allowed water to collect under spoiler (you could hear sloshing when you opened the trunk after a pressure wash); - Park LED on instrument panel didn't function (all other gear LEDs worked fine); - windshield contained a minor imperfection that caused a slight distortion in the driver's field of vision (this one was hard to find but it was there and it was distracting).

Seats: Our driver's seat has the power lumbar and I find it very comfortable (I have rented GP GT's before for long business trips and have not experienced any discomfort in those either). Perhaps it's dependent on your height or body type - chair comfort is rarely a "one size fits all" thing. Still, neither my wife nor I have felt anything untoward in either the driver's or passenger's seats (I'm 6'2" and about 180 lbs, she's 5'1" and would kill me if I even considered including her weight here but let's just say she's "petite").

I'm sure there's more I could write but those are the issues that come to mind.

theiceman

stnel · July 2001

I guess I must be the only one to find the seat doesn't give good lumbar support but I didn't get the power lumber on my car. I also don't do a lot of distance driving so it's not a major problem. If I had a long commute everyday, it would be another story.

I'm getting 23-24 mpg but that's mostly city driving. Maybe 1/4 of it is interstate driving, if that much. Don't know if that's good for city driving or not. I've got the 3.1L engine.

I've got 1800 miles now and the only problem seems to be pinging when I exit my car. From what others have told me, it's the exhaust system cooling off.

I've been happy with the plastic on the car but my other car was 10 years old and anything would be an improvement. Now the plastic on that car rattled! I got the taupe cloth interior and I think that's one of the prettiest interiors that I've ever seen on a car--naturally I'm biased.

theiceman · July 2001

That mileage is excellent for the type of driving you do - and certainly within the range you should be expecting. We've gotten 24.2 mpg over almost 10k miles on our Bonneville (excellent for a car of its heft) and I would estimate that we're about 20-21 with the Grand Prix. That's okay for the type of driving we do.

That pinging is almost assuredly the exhaust cooling off - something that happens more in single exhaust systems with higher-revving, high-compression engines. Your (SE I'm guessing) has the former so you should expect it. I haven't noticed it yet on either of our Pontiacs (but both have the 3.8 Series II with dual exhaust).

I agree that the taupe cloth is sharp. We have the grey cloth.

On the plastic issue: Next time you're at your Pontiac dealer, ask to see a Bonneville and you might see what I'm talking about. GM can do it - they just don't do it on all of their cars.

stnel · July 2001

The NHTSA had service bulletins regarding the decklid with the sloshing. It was for cars with a VIN prior to 1F134432. Mine is prior to that but I haven't had a problem so far. It could be because I've only driven in the rain once or twice and washed it only once. It's due to be washed again.

What I'm curious about is if there is a safety recall and a car on a dealer's lot is one of the cars to be included on the recall, would the dealership fix it. I read about a air bag recall and mine would have been included. It was sitting on a lot when the recall was issued. There was also a seat belt buckle recall but my build date did fall under the recall.

I'm assuming they fixed it. Would sure hate to find out the hard way that it wasn't fixed!

The gray interior is nice too. My other car had a gray interior and I was looking for a change.

theiceman · July 2001

Odd - the TSB for the decklid leak was for the '99 model year. I don't know if mine is that some leak or same result from different cause. Thanks for the tip. You would think that the manufacturer would have made the correction at the assembly line or part manufacture by now and that the problem on mine is just "one of those things". Otherwise, yes, the dealer should be taking care of those things during dealer PDI and prep. Doesn't always happen though. Ask next time you bring it in for service.

yurakm · July 2001

I believe, the dealers have computers, connected to GM network. They enter all repairs, and it is easy to check what was fixed in your car and when.

montanafan · July 2001

If a recall occurrs while a car is on the dealers lot, they are supose to complete it before they can sell the car. The seat belt recall only included 13 grand prixs, and the air bag recall only included 9 grand prixs.

stnel · July 2001

Thanks for the info. My car was built in 8/00 and was in the time frame that was mentioned in the NHTSA. I may stop by the dealership next week and ask. For all I know, I may have been one of the 9 Grand Prix's recalled for air bags.

theiceman - I imagine if my car was built in August, it would have been one of the earlier 2001 Grand Prix's built. I don't know exactly when they start building cars for the new year. I have yet to see if I'm going to get that sloshing. My car just hasn't been exposed to that much water as of yet.

The information I'm going by from the NHTSA is from their web page. I imagine that's accurate.

jaysik · July 2001

In the process - adding to my 2001 GTP is a Ram Air hood (ASSD)with four inlets, 3.2 inch pulley, intercooler, headers, dual exhaust, shift kit, cold air box, reprogrammed PCM. I really like my GTP.

bolivar · July 2001

I just don't understand.

Instead of pouring money for mods into a car, why not just buy a faster car?

Camaro or Firebird.

stnel · July 2001

If you're still reading on the Grand Prix forum, what is the PCM? I read through the "P" section of the owner's manual and didn't see anything that fit. Just curious since that's what seemed to cause your problem.

Thanks!

jaysik · July 2001

I got the GMS? deal - and Firebird or Camaro are ok, but alas - not in four doors. (j/k). Honestly - I can do most of the mods myself and I want to improve the performance. Basically the PCM among other issues - limits the speed to 126mph...Jay

jaysik · July 2001

Since I bought the car relatively cheaply (GMS) - I feel that dual exhaust, headers, u bend removal, cold air induction, pulley change, shift kit, strut bracing, (and others are cost effective). Also these reduce heat inside the engine which is a big enemy of power, all these are simple and I feel they are ok, the only change which I consider major is the intercooler, but all these will create a cooler running engine, plus I get the benefit of 100 plus HP to the ground. From my experience car manufacturers create a car for the middle of the road enthusiast, and some people whom are very happy with their GTP (me) would like to take it to the next level. I heard in 2003 the body will change but they will keep the same engine. I hope I am wrong and they go to dual overhead cam putting 350 HP to the crank like it should be (more would be better though), but the tranny has to be beefed up because that is the weak link...more to come, Jaysik

jaysik · July 2001

Hello, check out grandprixstore.com, type in PCM in the search engine, then check out all the goodies out there for GTP lucky owners. There are many other sites if you need more info, just send me a message. P.S. - I do not have a 'problem' per se (j/k), just want more and more power...never enough. Jay

theiceman · July 2001

PCM: Powertrain Control Module - essentially a mini-computer which runs the engine management system and, in some cars, the transmission controls. It relies on sensors (such as the oxygen sensor - there are others) to process information and provide instructions to the engine/tranny systems like the ignition, fuel injectors and shift solenoid. It is in the PCM where rev and speed limiters are burned - to protect your engine and GM's legal liability.

stnel · July 2001

Thanks for the explanation of the PCM. Also for the description of the cupholders on the Grand Prix vs. the Bonneville.

stnel · July 2001

I'll probably have about 2000 miles at the end of the week. I was wondering if I should go on and change the oil right when I hit 3000 miles or wait for the oil change light to come it.

I've always had to keep up with these things myself and would think that if you wait for a light to come on, you're in a danger zone. The book says the car knows when to change oil and you have to reset something and so forth. I guess it goes against my nature to depend on a computer to make my decisions.

I was wondering what you planned on doing.

theiceman · July 2001

I change the oil every 5000 kms (3000 miles) and I intend to put in Mobil 1 (a synthetic oil). Frequent oil changes with good oil are the cheapest insurance against future engine problems.

montanafan · July 2001

One way to go, would be to change the oil at the mileage you are comfortable with, but do not restet the light. Then wait to see when the light would have come on. If it is close to your desired change interval, then go with the light in the future. If not, then change as you desire and reset the system.

theiceman · July 2001

neat idea. I suspect that I will always change before the light. I just changed the oil on the Bonneville and its oil life monitor was reading that it had 60% of its oil life remaining. Extrapolating (I don't know if oil life is directly correaled with mileage) from that, I'd be changing my oil every 7500 miles. No thank you.

kdstan · July 2001

Does the 2002 Grand Prix have any new features that the other ones do not? Also, has anyone tried to put flowmasters on their GTP? Just curious!

kdstan

stnel · July 2001

Thanks for the help regarding oil changes. I'm going on and changing it at 3000 miles. I'll see what the mileage says when the light comes on.

Dan - even though the book says 3000 - 10000 (miles) for oil changes, if your light is registering at 7500, that's pushing it. Sometimes I wonder if car makers do stuff like that on purpose so you'll have more car repairs or buy another car sooner!

theiceman · July 2001

I just finished doing this (okay, so I have odd hours - sue me) and, while the process is anything but intuitive, it doesn't take long. Basically, you have to put your key in the ignition (leave it in 'lock'), pull the PCM fuse, turn the key to 'acc', follow the owner's manual through the options (doesn't take long) and then follow the exit procedure. All I changed was adding auto unlock once you put the car in Park and I removed the horn 'chirp' to confirm a repeat 'lock' signal from the keyless remote.

At least now both our Bonneville and our GP will behave similarly - at least in these two regards.

stnel · July 2001

I wanted to change my lock mode and looked into it about six weeks ago. I got as far as finding the fuse box. I decided that I may mess up the fuse box and to leave the car at its original setting. I may try it down the road.

The only thing I don't like about mode 4 is having the car unlock automatically in a parking lot. I just relock the car as soon as it unlocks but it would be better not to have it unlock in the first place.

osubuc4life · July 2001

I've heard the supercharger on all cars only last for a certain length of time. One person told me they lasted 50K miles. My GTP has a little over 49,000 on it. Is it true that the supercharger wears out? If so how can you tell? I just purchased the car Monday. No problems with the car, so don't get me wrong. I bought a 3 year/36,000 mile warranty, so if the supercharger needs replaced, now would be the time to do it....while it's free

.

SO basically my question is, how can you tell when it's worn out?

Plus one more question is, the GTP was timed at 6.7 seconds in the 0-60 MPH on Edmunds. Recently my friend timed mine at 8.5....but that was with his stopwatch, so could it very that much then if he timed me with a G-tech thing?

So if i could get those questions answered i'd be VERY HAPPY

Thanks a bunch.

theiceman · July 2001

Don't know about the life of the eaton supercharger. All parts wear out but I suppose when has as much to do with how you've used it as with how you've maintained it. And, have you stuck with the stock pulley?

As for 0-60 times, cars aren't computers and no two are going to produce the same times. Times recorded by professionals tend to be "tuned" for it and, as you say, electronically recorded. Rubber matters big time here as does weight of the car. Dragsters have done things like removed all but the driver's seat. And, of course, you've got to take the traction control off.

Still, a true 8.5 seconds will beat most cars on the road today.

osubuc4life · July 2001

Thanks Iceman, i don't know too much about t he supercharger really. Haven't done any mods with it yet, and probably won't actually do anything too drastic.

Anyone got some ideas on how i can trick out my GTP and make it faster? I'm looking at spending maybe $1,000 on it. I really don't want to go the SLP way, lookin for something different. What would you guys do to a GTP with $1,000?

Thanks.

pt2001 · July 2001

Just bought a 2001 Grand Prix 2 days ago and was wondering why I was getting headaches - the windshield is distorted in a line right across my field of vision. I can't even drive it now, taking it in for service tonight. Was your windshield replaced properly (i.e., is there any distortion left)? In previous year models, I've read the replacement may not be much better than the original. Thanks for the info.

stnel · July 2001

Once you get the windshield problem resolved, I hope you start enjoying your new car. I'm afraid I don't have any advice to give. Just thought I'd welcome you to the board.

Best of luck in getting the problem resolved!

Stacy

theiceman · July 2001

I should have clarified in my post that the dealership corrected the other two minor problems and ordered a replacement windshield for me. It has come in but I've not yet been able to bring in the car. They are not giving me a hassle though and the windshield will be replaced under warranty. I'll let you know how it goes.

BTW, my wife (who wears contacts - I do not yet need them) is shorter than I am and this distortion does not bother her as much as it bothers me and since the GP is her car, the replacement isn't urgent.

tom18 · July 2001

currently looking for a good end of year deal on the 2001 4dr GT - anyone recommend any dealers that will give the best price this time of year beyond invoice and the current 2k rebate ?

pt2001 · July 2001

Thanks for the feedback. I dropped it off at the dealer and the service manager claims he doesn't notice it. We looked at another Grand Prix and I could see it has the same problem, but again he didn't. It's worse at the edges but still very noticeable and annoying throughout the viewing area. I'm 6'2" and he was a bit shorter, so maybe as you've stated, height is a factor.
In my case, the factory rep must approve glass replacement, between this and the sm not seeing it, I'm getting very uncomfortable about the situation. I'll post again tomorrow after I hear back from the dealer.

I wonder if anyone else has noticed this problem?

stnel · July 2001

It could be height is a factor. I'm 5'4" and don't notice a problem. Maybe you could find someone that works at the dealership that's your height to sit in the car. If they agree with the service manager, then there's a chance you're not being dealt with honestly and you may want to take the car to another dealership to look into it. There may be a number to call GM directly but I've never tried that so don't know if you would get good results or not. (I may be mistaken on whether you can call GM directly though.)

theiceman · July 2001

BTW, I am also 6'2" and I found that driving the GP was, at times, like wearing somebody else's glasses. I also find that it's worse on sunny days. At 5'1" (she claims), the distortion is not as evident in my wife's field of vision.

Here's what I did: I parked the car in a spot that gave me a clear view of a fixed object on the horizon. Then, while keeping my gaze on that object, I moved my head around inside the car. At some point, the object appeared to suddenly jump or bend. Once I had this, I brought my hand up to the inside of the windshield and, using a grease pencil, I began marking the area of distortion. Even with that, the service manager couldn't see it and tried to suggest that maybe I was seeing dashboard glare. Fortunately, I had the sales manager on my side and, in the end, the part just got ordered. No questions, no factory rep.

As Stacy suggests, maybe you can find somebody of our height and give them the keys (on a sunny day) and suggest that they drive it for a while. Barring that, it might be worth a call to a local auto glass shop and ask them if they've ever heard of this problem.

Good luck - I hope our replacement windshields are better.

stnel · July 2001

I've always used regular tap water for the windshield washer. Is there any reason with these new cars why that wouldn't be acceptable? The owner's manual lists a GM washer fluid to use but I don't know if it's necessary or if it's just a way for GM to make more money.

I can't see that a windshield would be any different now than it was 10 years ago. But I also never heard of drying off a car after washing it. I found out the hard way that the new paint they use requires drying. (It could just be metallic paint that needs drying and I've always had non-metallic paint on cars.)

evandro · July 2001

Tap water is fine where it doesn't get below freezing. Just add a few drops of a mild detergent to remove any oil from its surface and it should be OK.

HTH

stnel · July 2001

I don't have to worry too much about freezing weather so I'll just stick with tap water.

Thanks!

Stacy

theiceman · July 2001

I use a bug removal formula in the summer and an antifreeze formula in the winter (I do have to worry about freeze-ups). You can buy this stuff at Costco or Pep Boys for roughly $1-$2 for a jug big enough to fill the reservoir. I go through about 1 jug in the summer and about 4 in the winter (our winters can be darned sloppy!).

Ah! the joys of a northern clime!

pt2001 · July 2001

First, thanks stnel and theiceman for your feedback and suggestions. Also, theiceman, your description of the distortion fits exactly with my experience.

Now the bad news, the windshield has been replaced, but the problem is still there. The distortion is a little different now, the edges are much better, but horizontally across the windshield it is the about the same and now, the problem is noticeable in about the bottom 3 inches of the window. Again, noone at the dealership could see it, except the salesman did say he noticed it at the bottom of the windshield.

Oh, the service manager said I could try adjusting my seat to see if that fixes it - I don't think so. When I complained to the salesman, he said I'd have to talk to the general manager, who wasn't in at the time. What's bad is, I really do like the car otherwise and I don't see this problem getting resolved easily.

I did call a couple glass companies and they were more than willing to take a look at it. So that is one thing I can do. Otherwise, not sure at this point. I've been trying to find some information on this topic, but pretty much coming up blank - I did find someone with windshield distortion on an Audi. If anyone knows of any standards windshield are supposed to follow or what is a reasonable amount of distortion, I'd appreciate it.

stnel · July 2001

Those aren't bad prices for washer fluid. I may try some of that bug removal. We're about due for these bugs that come in once a year and do a real number on cars.

stnel · July 2001

I hope one of the glass companies can help you out. If they give you something in writing that there is a problem, you would have an argument to use with your dealership.

It's a shame cars don't come with a 30-day return policy!

beach15 · July 2001

The 2002 Grand Prix will be available with an Anniversary Package that includes roof fences, heat extractors, racy exhaust tips, chrome wheels, and two-tone leather. Not much else appears to have changed except maybe the usual options & color swaps.

ruski · July 2001

the Anniversary package sounds the same as the Special Edition fluff that was available on the 2001 model.

theiceman · July 2001

Paul (pt2001): I think the independent opinion of an auto glas shop is important here. Too bad the doofuses (doofi?) didn't check out the replacement windshield before they did the work. Oh well, the good news is that, even though it is a fairly major component, it is rather easily replaced. It's just a pain in the derriere. If it helps, print out these posts and show it to your dealership - it'll let them know that GM had a supply problem this year.

Stacy: maybe our fluid is cheaper than the stuff available in the states. If you there's not much call for it where you live, there might not be much availability or competition. You know what that does to the price.... Check out Wal-Mart (they carry the stuff up here). One last thing about tap-water: aren't you the one with the rusty water???? One of the advantage of the mixed stuff in the jug is the absence of minerals which will eventually deposit in the bottom of your reservoir - potentially flaking off and lodging in your hoses or nozzles.

stnel · July 2001

Unfortunately, I am the one with the rusty water but I fill up jugs of water from my parents house when I'm over there and would use that water. The prices for store bought washer fluid could be the same in Canada as in the U.S.--I've just never priced it. The next time I'm in Walmarts, I'll price it.

So far, our water hasn't been metered but they are in the process of metering us. I imagine the homeowners will be raising cain if they meter us without replacing the pipes. The ones we have now are pretty old--thus the rust sediment.

As long as there's discussion on the new 2002 Grand Prix, I have a question. How long has the current styling been out? It seems like it's been out for awhile.

dhanley · July 2001

You can pick it up for between $1.00 and $1.50 a gallon wal-mart, target, or any auto store will have it. I go through maybe a gallon a year, so it's well worth it, and most oil change places ( including dealers ) claim to top up this fluid, but they frequently need to be "reminded." I don't ever recall adding it to my saturn for this reason. The dealer always toped it up with my oil changes, so i never ran out.

dave

theiceman · August 2001

Hi Dave - wasn't expecting a post from you here! Given that you and stnel live in the same part of the country (i.e. West), your info is probably pretty applicable to her.

I've noticed that GM tops up the windshield fluid - but in our "soupy" springs, you can go through a litre of this stuff in a 2-3 weeks! So, I still go through a lot of it. I tend to buy it by the case at either Costco or Canadian Tire (that's a sort of a cross between Pep Boys and WalMart - without the clothing or groceries - with a little bit of Home Depot thrown in for good measure) and therefore pay about $US1 a jug.

Pontiac Grand Prix - 2000-2005

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