By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
The term "stealth" itself is something owners originally coined. But because it has become such a popular identifier of that unique ability, even Toyota is now endorsing it.
Only "full" hybrids (like Prius) offer "stealth", since they have the ability to propel the vehicle exclusively using the motor. "Assist" hybrids (like the Hondas) require the engine to be running for the vehicle to move, so they lack the ability.
It is a very enjoyable experience flying down the road in dead silence without any vibration, since the engine isn't even running. And it is fantastic for stop & slow traffic, like many people's daily commute.
JOHN
http://john1701a.com
Nearly impossible based on the BlueTooth specifications. Toyota likely took full advantage of a having a very large encryption-code.
> anyone who breaks/gets in can start your car...right?
Not if they aren't within the needed proximity with an authenticated transponder.
> i wonder whether the stock CD player supports CDR/CDRW/MP3
CD-R is already known to work. CD-RW probably does too. MP3 is a mystery. The real question is how long will it be before a stock player will be able to read a DVD+R. Since a blank is less than $2 now and the capacity, error-correction, and physical design is grossly superior to CD-R, it makes a lot of sense offering support for it.
> i wonder how hard it would be to get a line-in for
> an external source like an ipod
Since a cassette player is also included, an adapter would work just fine. I've been doing that for over 3 years now. Using a high-quality adapter, the sound is great.
> does this mean you could leave the AC on, shut off
> the car and then accidentally drain the battery?
No. The electrical system is disabled when you shut off the car, access to the battery-pack is severed. Only the little 12V, which boots the computer, is still connected.
JOHN
http://john1701a.com
I guess this is something none of us know yet. I'm assuming that the electric A/C will be a scaled-down version of a home system, but I don't know. I just wish the car was going to be available in July, so I could hear other owners' reports of how well it works. September isn't as good of a indicator as july or august!
There is absolutely no need to be concerned.
We obviously have a new misconception forming.
Let's STOP IT NOW!
The A/C is electric, but it won't be running exclusively from the battery-pack. It will try to run as much as it possibly can from the battery-pack. But if the demand exceeds the supply, the engine will simply startup and begin providing electricity on-the-fly.
It's no different from driving in "stealth". When the state-of-charge drops to a depleted level, the engine runs. It's no big deal.
JOHN
http://john1701a.com
True, it won't get the August workout when monsoon storms can make the roads steam in 108 degree heat, but we should get a comparison against other systems.
Mike P
I would have this new one on top of my list if it only had a manual transmission. I know the CVT is efficient, but it is not as much fun, and means giving up some control.
Name a specific situation where this applies. I don't think you can. You'd be quite surprised how much seperate motor & engine control you have even without a clutch or gears.
You get the same abilities with a simplier interface.
JOHN
http://john1701a.com
I can think of one scenario where this applies: When you want or need to hit the redline on every gear, for fun or in an emergency situation. Unless the CVT is programmed to sense this need via the pedal pressure and speed of its movement and react accordingly, it probably won't work quite like a manual transmission.
One of my previous vehicles was a 5-speed manual. I drove 60,000 miles with it. I know how you can play with RPM to gain control.
That need simply doesn't exist in Prius. You always have the power you need just by using the accelerator pedal. When you punch it to the floor, the computer manages the thrust output. It's not like you are relying on a timing-belt and pressure-sensor for control. You've actually got (artificial) intelligence handling the request.
In short, the Prius CVT system provides greater control than a traditional automatic transmission and is roughly equal to a manual transmission.
JOHN
http://john1701a.com
But the ECVT in the Prius is much better at handling the engine than a manual or any autobox is. Even with a close-spaced manual the tranny is not at the desired ratio except transiently... we shift when another gear is better than the one we are in. Automatics behave the same way except they guess what we want. Grrr.
The ECVT doesn't have that issue at all. The hybrid system applies torque in the amount you ask for (within its limits, of course) and adjusts the ICE contribution to whatever it needs to do that. Replacing it with a manual tranny would only confuse the system.
Mike P
I do wish it had lower "gears" for braking though. It either has drive or low, and for me, it needs a "lower low". Driving it in San Francisco on those hills requires constantly standing on the brake, which is no big deal, but a lower low sure would be useful at those moments.
Also, I've never tried it but the manual discussion made me think of it: can you shift to the "low" when you are already rolling down the hill? You can certainly shift to a lower gear in a manual under those circumstances.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
As for the wishing for "lower gear" for braking, I don't think it's necessary because with Prius you are supposed to use the brakes to convert the motion into electricity. Engine braking would defeat the purpose.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
So the engine braking should only engage the electric generator with a mode called "Regenerative Slowing", just to be differentiated from the regerative braking mode. :-)
Could this be a requirement of the regenerative braking concept? Or, is there any reason that anyone here knows of, that would preclude four-wheel disks?
Now it could be implemented this way: Make the first several inches of the brake pedal travel for regenerative braking, whose resistance increases as the pedal goes deeper. Then there's a beep when it reaches the braking point, upon which the brakes kick in (regenerative or not depending on the setting, like the current system).
How's that sound?
The only reason that Toyota is not making one at this time, I think, is to contain cost. I don't know if there need to be something between the motor(s) and the wheels. If so, the system surely will be a lot more complicated than simply moving the motor to the rear. That's why they will implement it on SUVs first, as SUVs are expected to be more expensive and heavier.
Driving in the snow. As soon as the wheels start to loose traction just shift up a gear and you will be fine (since the engine will have less torque to spin the wheels). How to you precisely manage how the power hits the road in a CVT.
Say you are driving 35-40 miles an hour in top gear (or top of the range in a CVT) and you floor it to pass someone - is there any hesitation while it adjusts its belts to the right ratios (there must be some)? With a manual you can shift as you are getting ready to pass and be in your power band at the instant you need to be - no hesitation or pause whatsoever.
Of course the main reason for a manual is fun.
Similarly, it does much better in snow than I can with a stick and clutch. I can depress the clutch fast enough, but recognizing the slippage always requires some wheelspin and a second or two as the wheels slow down again. The "traction control" (actually wheelspin control in the pre-2004 Prius) reacts way faster. The hybrid system puts torque on the wheels according to the computer design. Many people don't like that depressing the accelerator pedal 1/4 inch produces so little torque, but in snow I wouldn't have it any other way. I can hardly drive my daughter's AT Honda Accord when the streets get slushy (I'm a recently transplanted desert rat), but the Prius handles it like a dream. Then I get in my 4X4, manual tranny work truck and slide down the road. But the Prius won't make it up remote mountain roads with a foot of snow on them, so I guess it comes out even!
http://www.hybridcars.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=176
Accord when the streets get slushy (I'm a
recently transplanted desert rat).
Okay this is a tangent, but I never understood why people complain about driving automatics in the snow. I never have problems with slipping. You just have to use the torque converter's "creep" to your advantage. Assuming I'm on a relatively flat surface, I always take my foot of the brake, let the car start creeping forward on it's own a bit, and then put my foot on the gas. For stop-and-go traffic, it's a lot easier in the snow than a manual. Then again, if you're talking country roads or hauling, sure the MT would be better.
I got over the "loss of control" issue very quickly when I saw how much better the Prius did the modulation than I can do (and I am not slow). ABS is a different matter - even though the Prius has excellent ABS, there are times when it is better to ride the peak myself. I've never been in a loss-of-control skid caused by braking in over 30 years of driving.
Click on the Toyota Hybrid System THS II link from this page....
In the Honda, the gas engine is always in use to propel the car, and the electric only helps, but in the Prius, the electric can propel the car all by itself sometimes, and that requires the use of the CVT.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
It would be hard to mate a manual to a system where the driver has no direct control over the engine throttle, the engine contribution to acceleration or even whether the engine is running or not. Kind of like a manual spark advance on a car with an automatic transmission, but worse.
I'm a long-time manual tranny partisan, but the ECVT has conventional autoboxes and manuals beat in so many ways. Precise control over engine load, smoothness, ruggedness (yes - more rugged than a manual within its rated load... electrical limitations). In its present incarnation it wouldn't work for off-road driving like rock crawling, and it isn't rated for towing, but for everyday driving it is very nice indeed.
just a guess....
The aerodynamic drag may be the reason, but my guess is what coolguy said: it adds weight, which is crucial not to do in this car. It is a shame for me, because I really like to have a moonroof.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Yes, it can be and I believe it is the reason. Every other vehicle also is faced with weight, fuel consumption, polution, and even drag, but (the design of) of every other vehicle is NOT concerned with every mile per gallon it can save. Therefore, to Prius, the added drag and weight by a sun roof would be significant in fuel conservation. Further, that extra weight is not only form the added sun roof itself but also from the extra material added in there to make up for the lost rigidity.
Now why is the sun roof such an obsession in the US? I would think that in an old clunky noisy car without air conditioning (and the nice micron filter?), that big hole up there would be much more important and the disadvantages it entails less noticeable. But why would so many people want to sacrifice the tranquility in a nicely cocooned modern sedan for...what? The fresh and/or cool air? The sense of touch with the outside world? the thrill from the wind noise? Can't you just open all the (power) windows instead?
To offset that, weight can be added to the bottom of the car, beefier tires can be used, the body can be widened, and then the engine/motor can and will need to be replaced with something more powerful. And while we are there, we might ask to make the whole roof retractable, adding some exotic flavor and catering to a wider range of market segments. The only problem is that by then it won't be Prius any more and will probably cost $10k more to get... :-)
Also, tilting open your sunroof helps keep the car cool in summer when parked.
When cruising at nights you can open the moonroof and leave the windows up....its kinda cool being open to the sky.
Either way, the reasoning that Toyota is using seems pretty obvious to me - weight and cost. A sunroof imposes more of both on a car that needs neither. I wouldn't pay for it, and in fact would have paid to do without it in some cars I've owned [headroom issues, probably not significant with the '04 Prius].
And tilting it in the summer to let heat out of the car is very useful too...regfootball hit it right on the head. I never close the sash - so even when the glass is closed, the light is open to the sky, which I really like.
The roof is already high in the Prius, you would think they could afford to have it from that point of view.
I am sure it is the added cost and weight Toyota is loath to inject.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I'll be seriously looking at the 2004 Prius, I'm a big fan of hatchbacks - great utility but still drives like a car. The Hybrid Civic doesn't even have a fold down rear seat.
As an aside, why are they called moonroofs instead of sunroofs? Is there a physical difference, or is it so the mfrs don't get sued by people who get sunburned?
A practical feature I want for a sun/moon roof is this: A sensor that can sense rain drops, environment temperature, and light such that the roof will close when the temperature drops, when it starts to rain, or when it's getting dark. This, made into an integrated device, shouldn't cost more than a $10.
Forgetting costs for a while, I also like the idea of being able to see up into the sky, day or night. I'm still waiting for my turn to see some UFOs, so a look-through roof would be very nice. Can they make part of the roof transparent (blending a piece of glass or glass-like material into the roof)?
It'd be great if the whole roof or the whole upper body of the car can be made of some material that is as tough as metal but can be turned transparent at the flip of a switch...
Quality depends on the shop that installs it, of course. Most owners who have installed it in their Prius have commented on losing some headroom...
The solution, of course, is not to remove the moonroof option from the car, but for the marketing people to package things in a more consumer-friendly style.