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Infiniti Q45



  • Come on, the Bimmers (or Audis or MB for that matter) aren't that bad.

    Insurance is no more for me in my A4 than it is for my wife and her I30. The 325xi I priced out would have been within $5 per month of the A4 insurance-wise. We have the same coverage and we both have clean driving records.

    Reliability is Lexus and Infiniti's strong points, I'll give you that. They are not any cheaper to service, though (as a matter of fact, with the German cars, you get free service for 4 years or 50,000 miles, you don't with Infiniti or Lexus). Therefore, the Lexus or Infiniti will actually cost you MORE to maintain over a 5 or 7 or 10 year period than a Bimmer or Audi.

    Lexus and Infiniti are not cheap to repair, either. No luxury/semi-luxury car is.

    Dealer experience varies dealer to dealer. You cannot generalize and say one is better than the other. It all depends on where you live. I've been to 2 Lexus dealers here in Denver. I was not overly impressed with either one. OTOH, the Infiniti, Audi and BMW dealers here will bend over backwards to make customers happy. So I would give Audi, Infiniti and BMW the edge in dealer service over Lexus here.

    As for interior materials not holding up, that's pure speculation on your part. Do you have any evidence that German interiors don't hold up? I didn't think so (although I'm sure you know a guy who owned a BMW once and he had ALL KINDS of problems).

    I just wish you would stop posting this misinformation as if it's a fact. I know you love your ES, and you'll get another. That's all fine and good. More power to you. But most of what you just posted as 'fact' is really just speculation on your part.

    I do think the new Q is a great car and I'm truly surprised it's not selling better. I think it will catch on, though. It has the content of the LS/S class/7 series and sells at the price of the GS/E class/5 series. I like it. I would definitely give one a good, hard look if I were looking at cars in that class.
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    As for ownership costs, I do have some facts. I checked on buying a 2001 330Ci. Insurance for me was about 33% more than it was for a 2001 ES 300.

    And, I recently replaced the brakes on my 1995 ES 300. Dealer wanted $250, I got them for $190 from a mechanic I know. For the heck of it, I called my local BMW dealer and asked about the brakes for a 1995 3-Series. $450. Even the mechanic I know said German cars in general cost more to maintain once out of warranty. And I believe BMW only covers maintenace for the first 3 years even though the warranty is 4 years (and only if the light goes on).

    My girlfriend's father had a 1995 SL600 that he owned from day one. The AC went out. They wanted about $6000 to fix it. The cost of something like that on a non-German car would be nowhere near as high (admittedly it is a specialty car).

    While the Lexus dealers in Denver may not be good, OVERALL/AS A GROUP, they are superior to MB/BMW/Audi and probably on par with Infiniti.

    I never stated anything as being fact. You just interpreted it that way.

    As for the Q45, I like it too. If I was spending that much it would be on my list, no doubt about it.
  • Now you're talking about a $125,000 (new) car! Of course it costs more to fix! BMW now offers the full maintenance for the 4/50k term of the warranty. And of course you only take it in when it needs service (that's what the light is for, silly). Why would you take it in any more than that unless you were having a problem?

    I'll ask you this: How much were your 15k, 30k and 45k maintenances all put together? I just called one of the Lexus dealers here in town (Kuni Lexus - 303-798-9500 if you care to verify it). They want $425 for the 15k service, $480 for the 30k service and $425 for the 45k service. That's some mighty high maintenance costs if you ask me!

    $1,310 buys a lot of brake pads!

    And it sounds like you need to get a new insurance company, too. Like I said, I was within $5 per month on either a 325xi or my A4, and my A4 is $3 more than my wife's I30 per month ($86 vs. $83). IOW, it wasn't a factor. Sure, the 330i might be a couple of bucks more a month, but it wouldn't be significant.

    I'll say the whole dealer thing again. Who cares who is better as a group? I care who's better for me, and you should care who's better for you. Averages mean nothing in the real world.
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    Yeah, the Benz example was probably a bad one. I'm glad I got to drive it many times before it was traded in!

    My comment about the BMW light was because for oil changes they typically seem to come on at around 12,000-15,000 miles. I would want my oil changed more often.

    Don't remeber my 15,000 service. I just had the 30,000 and it was $360. My car, although 6-1/2 years old, only has about 31,000 miles.

    My insurance company, CNA, is supposedly one of the best. I've had it for years. When I had some body work with my previous car, the body shop said CNA is one of the very few that will pay for original parts and not fight with the shop on cutting corners. I consider my policy to be very good.

    You're right about what matters -- how the dealers are in your area. No argument here.

    Let's stick to the Q45 since that's the topic. We both agree it's a nice car!
  • You said it yourself as far as the styling goes for the 2001- 1998-99 S class Mercedes. The Lexus is not original. The tail lights look like a 97-01 E class and the headlights are a rendition of the current S class. As far a interior room and this is personal but at the Cadillac challenge the S class was the only car in the group where I actually had to move the drivers' seat forward to touch the pedals and I'm 6'4! I've driven a friends 740il and also can say that the new Q nor the LS have as much overall interior space and either of these two cars. Someone also mentioned warranty/service the Q comes with 4yr 60,000 bumper to bumper . Originality when you look at the LS from a car aficionado stand point it is not original!
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    These cars all copy each other in different ways. The styling one stands out the most - particularly to you it seems. When MB goes to dvd nav systems and in-dash cd's (will they get there before 2005??) will they be coping the trends set by Lexus? They've certainly fallen behind in interior electronics/luxury so when they finally get there do their cars become un-original? Is your definition of originality of a car its styling or the sum of all of its parts? If its the former your're probably right - if its the latter your dead wrong.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Do you think the SC430 is an original car?

    Mag car testing - If BMW continues to build cars that handle as fantastically as the mags say (though you may notice they seem to always use a "sport" BMW and rarely a base car) and if this is 90% of the test than the Bimmers can never lose except on those days that someone prefers an MB "sport". Why test the cars when the decision is ordained by the test driver preferences and the cars selected beforehand to suit those preferences? Isn't this the way the Comunists used to elect their politicians? Why not have other criteria the way Consumer Reports does or at a minimum why not test comparably equipped cars? As an everyday driver I have a hell of lot more criteria than "sport" handling which is rarely needed in the first place and on those rare times that it is usable I have someone in front of me driving very slowly anyway. I also have a lot of responsibility in life so I wouldn't drive irresponsibly to begin with. We don't drive the cars around the track - we drive them on roads crowded with other cars. I also can't help but laugh when they ask the test drivers what they would purchase if it was their money on the line - which they don't have to spend in the first place.

    JD Powers - Lexus number 1 in customer service for 5th straight year followed by Saturn and then Cadillac. Cadillac definitely trying to join the elite and I hope they make it. Despite the many complaints on this board Infiniti was 4th and I've always heard great things about Infiniti service in past. BMW was 7th and MB didn't crack the top 10.
  • raprorapro Posts: 30
    I think that the car magazines would say that they are not in the business of testing the car as a practical appliance but as a driving machine. Testing a car is not a science and in the end it comes down to the tester, the car and the experience. Sure the testers try to think what if they had a family and a big dog and so on. This is just an afterthought. And the testers usually make it quite clear that the sole criteria was the driving characteristics of the car.

    If you want to get a sense of practicality of a car look into Consumer Report. Not surpizingly the BMWs never top their lists. Their practical experience leaves a lot to be desired, mainly as far as reliability goes. Here I have to side with lenscap that German cars are far from reliable. The easiest way to see this is to get an extended warranty say from The extended warranties on German cars are double and triple what they are for comparable japansese cars. Keep in mind that these quotes are based on the real world data the company collects about each model and reflect the projected cost of the car over the warranty period.

    Just as an anecdote. Today I read a web site where a guy listed the cost of maintaning his 1988 BMW 750iL. The car cost $80,000 when new. Now it has just over 100,000 miles on it. The guy was a second owner and he as well as the first owner kept immaculate records of the car. Over its life the car has been at the dealer for service over 100 times or over 7 months alltogether. The owners spend $32,000 of their own money on repairs not covered under warranty. The car is now worth about $8,000 but needs work worth about $10,000 to make it sellable so in fact the value of the car is -$2,000.
  • raprorapro Posts: 30
    I've heard that a dealer in Atlanta had to replace 2 engines and 2 transmissions on 4 of the 38 new Qs he sold. If this is true than Infiniti has much bigger problem than the advertized 0-60 time.
  • I'm sure if you heard it, it must be true.

    Once while on line at the supermarket, I glanced over to one of those rags on the rack. It had a picture of Ronald Regan with his arm on a Martian. Gee, it was on the front page of a paper at the supermarket. I guess it must be true. Right?
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    Since we got on the subject, I just read this morning that the BMW X5 has just been recalled for the 9th time since its introduction.
  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    Governing authorities have much higher standards than auto mags.
  • From The Car Place

    This guy spent a week with the car (is this the norm with test cars?) and really gets into the details in describing its various aspects. Even if you don't agree with his assessments, you've got to give it to him for being informative.

    He even got the car to go from 0 to 60 in 5.8 seconds! And that's with everything loaded! What gives?

  • ljflxljflx Posts: 4,690
    An honest review. Having picked an LS430 over an S-430 (which it easily bests) and over an S-500 which is a closer race but still won handily by the LS430 I know exactly what the writer means. Lexus definitely has more status than Infiniti in the public eye but doesn't have the smug attitude that MB has. Lexus still pampers more than Infiniti and has the more family luxury orientation (bigger trunk, seemingly bigger interior particularly for rear passengers) and crucially has a parent that is immensely profitable with deep pockets. Infiniti should stick to its sporting roots and go after BMW. That's the way it was initiated (not as a Lexus vs. Infiniti battle but a Japan luxury vs. German luxury battle)and thats the way it should have stayed. As for the status and the $60k plus issue - enjoy a car that's probably at least equal to and probably better than its German counter part and at the same time go on some nice vacations and buy technology for the home with the savings.
  • The lease on my 1999 Lexus GS300 will be up in January. I looked around extensively prior to leasing it, and it blew away all the other cars I was considering at the time. As there really hasn't been much new since then that I would consider, I assumed that I would get a 2002 GS to replace the '99.

    I test drove the new Q45 last week since I had heard that it had been completely re-done. I was not expecting much, having been extremely under whelmed by the 98 or 99 I test drove last time around. To say I was blown away by this car would be an understatement. While I have really loved my GS (only real complaint is that the seats get uncomfortable on long drives), I think that the Q will be taking its place in my garage come January. I'm going to see if the dealer has a demo that he would let me take for a weekend just to make absolutely certain before I plunk down $60,000.

    To all who own this car, have you had any significant problems or annoyances with it? What kinds of deals were you able to make? I know that it hasn't really been selling very well, and it will be approaching a year since release come January, so I'm hoping that good deals will be relatively easy. (S. Jersey, Phila. area).

    Thanks for the input.
  • "Lexus still pampers more than Infiniti and has the more family luxury orientation (bigger trunk, seemingly bigger interior particularly for rear passengers)"

    It has 3 tenths more of an inch more rear legroom than the Q45. I had no complaints with the seat all the way back when i sat in 6'3. I prefer the Q over the LS anyday. but the lexus name simply makes the LS more appealing (in the public view).
  • lml2lml2 Posts: 1
    I have had NO problems with my 2002 Q45 since I acquired it at the start of July. At the time, significant deals off of MSRP were quite limited at the dealers that I dealt with (5 in Los Angeles area).

    I compared the Q45 with LS430 and GS430, S430 and S500, BMW 740i and 540i, including multiple test drives in each of these models. For me, the overall value of Q45 (Premium trim) was unmatched by the others.

    Of course, value is relative, depending on your definition and weighting of various factors. But if prestige and image in the eyes of others is important, the Q is probably not going to achieve or sustain it for you. Every one who has commented on my Q initially thought it was a Lexus or a European brand (none could believe that Infiniti/Nissan had such a great model)!
  • raprorapro Posts: 30
    I don't consider a salesman from an Infiniti dealer to be on par with those "rags" but you if you do that's your business.
  • adobadob Posts: 18
    Any one recently hear of changes to the 2003 model? Since the 2002 will be almost 2 years available by the,I would hope for some improvements over some of the nigglin issues with the present car.
  • jimxojimxo Posts: 423
    I noticed all the web site and brochures do not brag about 0-60 times any more. I would love to pick up a Q at the end of there lease in a few years. If they do squeeze 60 more HP out of this car people will look closer at this fine automobile.
  • Infiniti, if not for the 03 model year than certainly for the 04 model year, will make many minor changes to fix the car out now. Things like gearing will probably be worked on as well as the suspension stiffness.

    BTW, the car does its advertised 0-60 time. its not a lie so let that be clear to people who still did not know that :)
  • Oh and for 04 or sometime after that, there will be a high performance Q45 wih over 400hp. it was suppossed to be for 03 but since Infiniti wants to improve the 'normal' models, theyre going to push back the hi-po Q release date.
  • jimxojimxo Posts: 423
    Sounds good 400+ HP, I can live with that. Are you sure about the 0-60 in 5.9? I look forward to owning a Q one day, although the next generation Lexus GS430 (2004) might be a crowd plea seer too.

    drod2045 what is your source for the future of the Q's performance?
  • a pretty good one- thats my source. :)
  • I am considering the purchase of a '98 q45t. Its a beautiful car, but I'm concerned about winter driving with this car. I've been told by a few owners that this is a real problem. Any advice or comments would be appreciated. Thanks.
  • I have considered buying a 1993 Q45 for approximately $8K. I don't have the money for a newer model. Just had a baby Boy and need a 4-door car. I have read almost every subject and could not find one about the 1993 model Q45. The car has 93K miles and is in great shape. Should I or shouldn't I? What kind of problems will I get into?
    Please respond in a hurry! Thanks,
  • jimxojimxo Posts: 423
    I drove a 93 for awhile several years back. My old boss owned the car and I drove it for weeks at a time. He sold it with 35K miles and said the car was maintence free. I too enjoyed this rocket ship and considered buying a used 96 (same car).

    Try and see what a similar Q is selling for, also check for trade in values. If you don't have a friend or a local mechanic to work on the car as little things need replacement then you will be screwed. The dealer is expensive, so only buy after you run the vin # with Infiniti for service history and ($20.00) to see if the car has been in a accident. You also may want to call a local dealer and ask the service manager about recalls and his personal experience with repairing these cars

    For 8k you can get a reliable 95/96 Camry or Accord with little and low cost repairs.
  • Thanks jimxo,

    I have taken your ideas into consideration. The Dealer where the car has been serviced is fairly close, 45mi. Also, I would be the 3rd owner. I have checked with Carfax before but I think we will go straight to the dealer and ask questions. The car rode great and is extremely roomy and comfortable, but I am worried about the mileage. I suppose the car could give me my moneys worth? I might get lucky. Since we live in the Mountains I may consider another type. Do you know anything about the timing chains? How about the suspension fixes?
    Take it easy!
  • jimxojimxo Posts: 423
    I cant say if the Q is a belt or a chain. Timing chains usually last a lot longer than belts which need replacement around 60k. Honda for example you MUST replace the belt, if you let it go and it fails you will crush the valves and a $200 job is now $1,200.00.

    The mileage is average 12k annually (except me around 25k). I feel a V8 well maintained will last as long as you want. As for suspension I would call around and get prices.

    If the car is clean and you can do some of the repairs yourself or a friend it's ok, however if the dealer is your only source for repair that will be expensive. Do plenty of research it may be worth your time.

    Good luck!
This discussion has been closed.