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Infiniti Q45
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Comments
I think Infiniti was trying to cover both the flagship luxury class and the mid-size sport sedan class with one car.
Personally, the Q45 will suit me fine when I can afford it in 2 years (used). Either that or the G35 new. It's got everything I need in a car.
You don't know what you're talking about, man.
I am interested in buying a 2002 Q45, something slightly used, but I am not sure I can afford one. What kind of deals have other people gotten out there? And what did you tell them to get a good deal.
Thanks!
Dear Mr. McNabb:
I am writing to you in hopes that you can find some solution to a serious issue with my almost-15 month old 2002 Infiniti Q45. My 2002 Q45's problem is the lack of a promised integrated cellular telephone that Infiniti was marketing as an available Q45 upgrade for over a year and was included as a "we owe" provision in my purchase contract. As I'm sure you know, the integrated telephone was supposed work with the 2002 Q45's voice recognition system and built-in LCD monitor.
Mr. ZZZZZZ, of the Infiniti Division, had been working with me on this issue since May 2002 until he left his present position. I have to say how impressed I was with Mr. ZZZZZZ and his attempts to handle this situation, even if all the attempts were unsuccessful. He is certainly a credit to Nissan North America.
I am now working Ms. YYYYYY who seems very willing to help. Unfortunately, no one has yet come up with any solution that is acceptable to the Infiniti Division and my dealer, West Houston Infiniti. My recollection is that I'm the only one, so far, to offer any suggestions about how to solve this problem.
When I purchased the 2002 Q45 I had every intention of buying the integrated telephone since I had previously owned a car with an integrated telephone. The 2002 Q45 met all of my specifications for a new car once I was told that the integrated telephone could be added later. Therefore I was one of your early purchasers of the "new Q". I am regretting that decision more and more with each day.
When Infiniti Division decided to withdraw the 2002 Q45's integrated telephone before it was released, Mr. ZZZZZZ and I began to discuss ways to solve my contractual problem. As I mentioned earlier, I had a written promise of an integrated telephone. We came up with many ideas on how to provide an integrated telephone solution for the 2002 Q45 or an equivalent "value add" to my present Q45. All of those solutions were either not technically possible or rejected by Infiniti/Nissan engineering. In the end, Mr. ZZZZZZ was unable to come up with any concrete offer concerning my present 2002 Q45.
The only solution any of us could come up with was to have me purchase a 2003 Q45, when they become available, with the hope that a Wingcast-enabled integrated telephone would be offered in the new model year. While I am not willing to "reward" the Infiniti Division by buying another Q45 at full price, I was willing to contribute $S,000 towards the new purchase and my present 2002 Q45 as a trade-in. Mr. ZZZZZZ sent me a letter stating that the Infiniti Division was willing to add a $T,000 factory rebate towards the purchase price, bringing the total cash offer to $UU,000.
Obviously, a 2003 Q45 solution would not work without the help of the dealer, West Houston Infiniti. When Mr. ZZZZZZ sent the factory rebate offer letter to me, I sent a registered letter to West Houston Infiniti's general manager and a copy to West Houston Infiniti's owner. I have attached another copy of the registered letter I sent to West Houston Infiniti on June 26, 2002, which was received by them on June 28, 2002. The background and dates for the integrated telephone problem are included in the copy of that letter, so I will not repeat them in this correspondence.
I had hoped the letter would lead towards a settlement of our contractual problem. However, West Houston never responded directly to me. When they did respond, it was through Ms. YYYYYY, verbally. Today's letter was prompted when I learned, through Ms. YYYYYY, that West Houston Infiniti would like me to wait a few more months before they will decide if they are willing to help. That was equivalent to saying "no" to my offer and very disappointing.
It is interesting that West Houston Infiniti would not help since their general manager has already verbally told me they cannot meet the conditions of the purchase contract, due to the Infiniti Division's breaking of your agreement with West Houston Infiniti to provide the integrated telephone. I can't count the number of times before April 2002 that West Houston Infiniti personnel told me not to worry about the integrated phone since it would be available soon.
I want to emphasize that had I known that the Q45's integrated telephone was "vaporware", I would have certainly held-off on my Q45 purchase, if not purchased a Lexus LS430 instead (for which I had already placed a down-payment). My previous automobile, a 1997 Oldsmobile Aurora, was still in good to excellent shape and could have easily continued to function well until the latter part of 2001 and into 2002.
As far as I'm concerned, Infiniti has the right to not offer a product or to spend development money on next year's car model instead of the previous year's commitments. I would then expect the Infiniti Division to settle any problems that are caused by that decision. I am really surprised to found out how poorly a luxury car company like the Infiniti Division and its dealer, West Houston Infiniti, have performed in finding a solution to this issue.
Other luxury car manufacturers have integrated telephones, so I really can't understand why the Infiniti Division has had such a problem with a relatively simple data interface problem. While designing a computer interface takes a lot of time and development money, most of the time is spent designing the interface protocol and timing functions. In the case of the 2002 Q45, I was under the impression from what I read that most of this work had been already completed (see attached press releases).
While you are attempting to find a solution within the Infiniti Division to this contractual problem, I'll try to find some helpful on-line sites to see how other luxury car owners have handled similar situations, if there are any. Hopefully between your work and my public investigations someone can come up with a plan to resolve this issue while I still want to be an Infiniti customer. Your dealer, West Houston Infiniti, may have boxed me into mediation and arbitration as my next step if you cannot find a solution.
The bottom line is that I want what I was promised - a luxury automobile with an integrated telephone. At this point, I also would like to no longer do business with West Houston Infiniti. In addition to their rude lack of response, the last service on my 2002 Q45 only fixed 50% of the request repairs and was a day late. I hope this situation is not typical of the way your other customers are treated.
I look forward to your reply. Please feel free to contact me at any time. With each day that passes, my "frustration leve
There are things I like and some I don't but I'd prefer to wait until I settle my 15-month problem before elaborating further. Obviously my opinion of my dealership is something I really shouldn't comment on at this time.
I think Nissan might now go with GM's onStar service.
If you check under October 15, 2001 you should find a very interesting press release, including comments from Infiniti. There is also an April 16, 2002 press release on their list that explains how Cellport Systems is divesting themselves from the auto business.
There is also a piece to this, in early to mid 2001 that involves another major manufacturer.
What's the lowest drive away price
anyone has paid (or knows about) for
the fully loaded '02 Q (i.e. with
the rear view camera, 18" wheels,
sport suspension, etc.). Sticker was
$60.xK as I recall. A price like 50-51K
for this car would be a steal compared
with, say, a 46K 530i.
Thanks!
Should their decision change, I will be notified by the Infiniti Division.
My last conversation with Cellport Systems, who made prototype units for Infiniti was on Tuesday (8/6/02). I was told by Cellport that they were ready to manufacture production units once Infiniti gave the go-ahead. Their prototypes adapters, besides responding to the expected Q45 voice commands, even put the Caller ID on the LCD monitor.
Sorry to keep this append strickly to the facts, but that is probably best at this point.
Andy
I've owned one, had a terrible experience (although the dealer was very good) with Infinity and their parent company NISSAN Motors.
As witnessed by the posts found herein the company could care less what the buyers needs and desires are (witness the discussion thread about integrated cell phones - hey NISSAN this is 2002, even entry level luxury cars from almost everyone has them!).
This is probably because the company is so disconnected from the foreign markets that they sell into.
Unlike Nissans domestic car division Infiniti local management has no voice or control over the local markets.
That's why Infiniti is infinitely behind Mercedes, BMW, Lexus and even Jaguar in luxury car sales in America. I'll bet that Huyundi will beat out Infiniti in the US luxury car segment in a few years (they only need a car to do it).
Did I mention that Infiniti is a poor investment? Or did I mention that they are the worst car manufacturer I've ever dealt with (I've bought and owned more than 72 cars in 30 years)! Did I mention that they suck?
Based on the post from ALK3997 and his integrated cellphone experience it looks like these aren't isolated incidents. I bought my wifes' car (J30) on the east coast.
Hey ALK3997 get an ambulance chasing attorney to represent you. What you have experienced sounds like something that is called fraud. The legal remedy provides for triple indemnification (3x) in the event of civil court conviction. When you consider loss of consortium, inherent design flaws and other losses you can probably make money (or at the very least have the entire purchase price refunded) on your car.
Good riddance to Infiniti. We'll be Infinitily better off as a result.
I was pleased to just read that the 2003 version of the Q45 will fix these two issues. Apparently the final drive gearing will be adjusted to allow for more immediate throttle response, and the cassette desk will change positions with the CD changer. This will make a really great car even better. (They will probably get the 0-60 acceleration times down to where they said they wer originally supposed to be too!)
I am always surprised by the complaints that folks have about Infiniti service...It must be highly variable from dealer to dealer. For me, the service has aways been one of the greatest assets. I have owned four Q45's and the service, along with the reliablity, is one of the reasons that I keep coming back.
M
I don't know which generation E-class you have, but the current Q45 has much more interior room than the current E. Front legroom may be similar, but the Q is much wider and has a much roomier rear seat.
M
See the "Daily In Depth" article, the 5th from the top.
M
1. They have yet to be able to sell vehicles in the $50,000+ category. Yes, they are selling many G35s. But they can't give away Q45s (and M45s). Mercedes and BMW have proven they can sell pricey cars, and Lexus has no problem moving LX 470s, LS 430s and SC 430s. If they want to be a true premium brand they must be able to compete at this level.
2. Redesigns. Every Infiniti has either been horribly cheapened during the next generation (original Q45) or dropped altogether (M30, J30, G20 the first time; I35 and QX4 are next).
Unless something changes, Infiniti will be an upscale, import brand of high-quality cars in the middle price ranges. There is nothing wrong with this (although the message gets muddled when a new Maxima is priced the same as the G35). It will be interesting to see what happens to Infiniti in the next 3-5 years - that will truly tell their future. They must not only sell great cars today but they also must keep the momentum going into their next generation of cars.
I really do not understand why other buyers do not come to the same conclusion. Most people I know, including luxury car owners, do not know much about Infiniti.
I know two Lexus owners who gave up on MB when they were surprised to find the cars expensive to maintain. It seems MB, BMW, and Lexus have many buyers who know really very little about the automobile market place, and are probably buying more for status than for any practical reasons associated with a $50k+ purchase. This may be the population that is not purchasing Infiniti. My sense is that if you were to stop the next 100 shoppers at Lexus dealerships, and ask them to name just one of the three latest models put out by Infiniti in the last year, you might get 98 wrong answers.
Correspondingly, I have met a few Infiniti owners and they seemed very knowledgeable of their cars and the market place in general.
IMO, Infiniti already has the engineering, innovation, and customer service, but they are missing that something - whatever it is - to attract that person who has the money to buy a luxury car, but does not have the time or interest to look at alternatives to MB, BMW, or Lexus. I am glad Infiniti sales are up, but their customers are clearly not there for the great deals on Q45s and M45s.
M
(BTW, the whole Lexus "experience", if you will, IS in a different class than that of the Toyota.)
That something missing is a good reputation. Infiniti has done very little right in their short history. From blunders like horrible marketing to non-innovative products to no line continuity, Infiniti has been a case study in what not to do when launching a new car division.
Since they were a brand-new company to begin with, that poor reputation/lack of mind share/ lack of image has stuck with them. The customer service has always been there, but the innovation and engineering have not - those are only recent (except for the original Q45). Anybody can build a great car once. But Infiniti must do this over a period of many years to earn their keep, establish an upscale image and bring in buyers.
M
2. IMO the Q45 does not compete with MB or BMW anymore. I drove the new Q45 recently, and it is a luxury car, not a performance car. The last Lexus cars I have test driven have all been luxury cars, so it seems to me that the Q45 is a cheaper alternative to the Lexus LS430. MB and BMW have products which appeal to a wide range of people, but I think it would require big changes to the Q45 to compete. And even then, there would be the problem of no long standing name recognition. In some ways, it has the same obscure identity as Acura's RL.
3. I also agree with merc1 that having a history of failed models that eventually get dropped does not help Infiniti's reputation. At this point, the M45 looks like a good candidate for failure. As appealing as the performance data is, I still would not buy one.