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Audi A6



  • timcartimcar Posts: 363
    Hello, Mark. Since you asked for an opinion, I'd let AoA and my dealer try whatever they would do for free. If it didn't fix it, and it bothered me as much as it appears to bother you, (I'm not implying it shouldn't.) I'd think about an '02. You seem to have an especially good relationship with AoA; perhaps they'd help ease the financial burden of putting you in an '02.

    My comment concerning vibrating pads came via April on AW when she made a brief reference about an earlier post in response to my hypothesis that it isn't the rotors. I tried the search function on AW and couldn't find it. Before you go to a lot of bother, you might want to ask her directly what she knows about it
  • forex303forex303 Posts: 6
    Recently had the opportunity to take a 2000 A6 2.7T home for the weekend. Loved it so much that I went to the dealer in search of a new 2001 model. I've only got 2 dealers near my home and their limited inventory of colors/options is not what I want. I see that wbreaux asked if anyone knew when the 2002's will hit the streets. The host refers to the First Drive article, but I have to agree with timcar that the article is not very informative and only really applies to those interested in the 3.0 FWD. So, on behalf of wbreaux and myself, I ask again, does anyone know when the 2002 line is due for delivery? One dealer I met with told me that it won't be until January 2002, but I think he's just trying to sell me on his existing inventory. He also says that no more 2001 will be delivered to dealers for the remainder of the year.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,343
    If you have just joined in on the Edmunds town - hall A6 message board, and have read the "lively" converstations pertaining to my A6 4.2 brakes (and some 2.7T's and now A8's brakes), and remarks from timcar, bertram60, etc. I want to tell you that none of the problems I have had would put me off buying another Audi or another future A6.

    I suspect that even those, like me, who have had minor issues or annoyances (as I consider the brake issues) with their Audis would agree that these are very fine cars.

    And, to further punctuate the point, no matter what has been said, by me at least, I assure you that both my wife and I are planning on future Audi cars -- she wants a 2003 TT and I want a 2003 S4 (4 door "coupe," so I have heard) or S6 (non-Avant style). My A6 is a joy to drive. I know of nothing else that I can afford that I would buy (or lease as the case may be).

    Audi of America and my local Cincinnati dealer, Northland, generally exceed expectations -- and when they don't, the fix the problem or address the issue and raise the bar.

    I do not hesitate to recommend Audi products and will not hesistate to acquire them in the [near] future.

    Quick takes:

    I agree with timcar about the edmunds first drive -- not much meat in the article, not a test report in the expected sense of the word.

    I have read much about the new 2002 A6's and based on what I have read and what my dealer has told me, several things are important to note: The A6 for 2002 -- especially the 3.0 and 2.7T versions are much more like the 2001 4.2 than anything else -- and this comment applies both to styling and feel (if not outright performance -- especially for the 3.0 variant). The suspension has been modified, the brakes have been replaced/upgraded, the trim and fit and finish are pushed up a few notches, sound deadening has been improved, steering, tires, radio (indash 6 disc CD changer) and literally dozens of other improvements have been made. Most of these improvements push the feel of the lesser A6's to feel like the former top of the range -- and then push it just a little higher (these comments relate to the luxury side). Moreover, some of these self same improvements (to the suspension, unsprung weight and body/chassis stiffness) also improve the handling and drivability of the cars too.

    The 2002, while NOT totally new, is a big step forward in the evolution of the A6. The 2001 A6 was little changed from the 1999 and 2000's, the 2002 is a much bigger change, both cosmetically and engineering wise.

    A 2001 may have a better discount and therefore may be more attractive, but a 2002 should not be discounted as a face lift.
  • forex303forex303 Posts: 6
    markcincinatti - You've definitely got me sold on a 2002 A6. Provided your info and sources are correct, your explanation of the expected changes is the best, most concise explanation I have seen thus far. Thanks so much for your input. Question still remains, when can I get one? And, in the experience of other Audi owners, do I need to expect to pay MSRP if I intend to buy an A6 2.7T as soon as the new models arrive in the showrooms?
  • timcartimcar Posts: 363
    Joe, '02 A6's should be in the showrooms within the next month, or so. Dealers now have all the details including options, packages, etc. Word is prices should be close to '01. In addition to their inventory, dealers can also order an A6 with the specific combination of colors and features you prefer, as long as it's U.S. standard. This should take 3 to 4 months for delivery. If you're interested in this route, you can order a 2002 now. Other folks began placing orders several weeks ago. If your dealer tries to get you to pay extra, smile and say no thank you. It doesn't cost them anything. In fact, it reduces their cost.
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Forest Lakes, AZPosts: 4,143
    Just got back from a business trip to Europe during which I was issued an Audi A3 (1.9 litre turbodiesel) by the rental car outfit. The thing was a revelation, and having the autobahns to try it out on was a experience as well. The seats were great, the handling solid and the climate control and stereo were well thought of by the people I was meeting with.

    Point being, I'm now an Audi fan. Bought a Lincoln LS with the manual a year or so ago, but haven't been completely satisfied with the power or the fit/finish. Handling is great, but the other "issues" remain. If I want a more powerful car with a manual, the choices are limited. I have serious problems with the BMW "image" -- lots of people buy them in order to own them and be seen in them rather than to drive them. For whatever reason, Audi doesn't come with this kind of baggage, at least in my experience. The A6 looks really nice, and the AWD 2.7T with a manual appears to check all the boxes in my list. I'm a bit concerned with the complexity of AWD and a pair of turbos, but am not planning to do anything for a few years, so we'll wait to see how the long-term reliability works out.

    Here's a question: does Audi offer a European delivery option like BMW does? It would be great to pick up a new car spec'd out exactly as desired at the factory and tour Europe for a week or two prior to having it shipped to the States.
  • timcartimcar Posts: 363
    As of about 6 months ago, someone who should know said, no. Anyone have better information?
  • My dealer(s) in Chicago (Schaumberg and McGrath) told me that they expect the 2002s to arrive in late October or early November.

    I would expect that the new and improved A4s will go for right around sticker, with some dealers trying to get above sticker. Hard to say for the A6s.

    I believe, however, that the big price hike will be in the packaging of options. Options will probably be a la carte, with no celebration packages. In addition, I doubt that they will be offering some of the extremely attractive finance packages such as their current deals that have placed the A6 2.7T within my budget.
  • Does anyone know where I can go to see pictures
    of the 2002 A6 2.7T. I am thinking of the 2.7T but prefer the looks of 4.2.

  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,343
    Len Hunt, top dog @ Audi of America was recently quoted in the quattro quarterly magazine on the issue of European Delivery -- my take on his words is "no, there is currently no European Audi delivery program -- we're working on changing that." Does this mean sooner or later -- who knows? My take on this subject after having been face to face with the folks in Germany who have marketing responsibility for North America is that "they are busy with other matters and that, while important, European delivery is perhaps not in their top 5 priorities -- but that it is in their top 10."

    If Audi monitors these message boards, I would assume that they don't see much lobbying on this issue, so I suspect it will remain a secondary priority until other "issues" are resolved.

    Talking with the folks in Germany, the issues they were concerned with most involve the product itself. Audis have become more and more popular (both in Germany and the US) and with that popularity comes challenges: marketing, delivery, service, option combinations -- even color combinations and models. There are so many more models of Audi's available elsewhere, so many combinations and permutations to consider for export (and all of the complexities of doing so -- federalization, for example has been a big time consumer; indeed, a reason for the lack of engine transmission combinations that other countries take for granted is "federalization" -- in some respects that is "the" reason there aren't more Audis available with manual transmissions here in America, even though Audi sometimes claims Americans want automatic transmissions).

    I too have thought it would be really a great experience to buy the car in the US, pick it up and drive it in Germany and have it shipped home. But, I will be patient, as I know Audi wants to "do it right."
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,343
    As I mentioned in an earlier post, the 2002 A6 3.0 and 2.7T feels AND looks a lot closer to a 2001 A6 4.2 than in previous years. If you have liked the looks of the 4.2, you will almost certainly like the looks of a 2002 2.7T. The 2002 4.2 and S6 Avant are less changed (cosmetically), IMO, than the other two US bound variants.

    I wonder if there will be a 2.9T? It would probably have 300 HP (or more) and that would make it even harder to justify the 4.2 on the engine alone. Of course, perhaps the 4.2 engine would be pushed further and the 4.2 and S6 cranked WAY WAY up. As the Everly Bros said (I think) Dream, Dream, Dream.
  • bertram60bertram60 Posts: 113
    Mark, I am not sure that the cross-drilled KVR rotors are the fix. In speaking with KVR they assumed that the warpage was due to the high heating and improper cooling (be it deep water or what ever). They actually suggested the big brake kit, but I asked them about any other solutions, and they said try the cross drilling.

    One of my concerns (and my dealers) is that Audi will then excluded the brakes from the Audi Advantage service if they've been modified. While I agree that I would rather pay to fix the problem once and for all, I'm a little concerned that if the cross-drilled's don't work, I'm on the hook for brakes.

    Maybe I'm trying to justify it, but I have a feeling the big brake kit (or S8/S6 conversions) may be our best bet, but I don't think Audi is willing to pay for the conversion, and cover it under AA.

    I also agree with you in that I love my Audi, and will buy another when I'm done with this one (probably sooner than later). Champion Motors has been spectacular to deal with and has made every effort (within Audi's guidelines) to fix everything. By far, this is still the best sport sedan I've ever driven.
  • trejos28trejos28 Posts: 93
    Just took delivery. Silver/tungsten gray - 2.8. Anyone in the Ark-La-Tex area, please stop by Moffitt Mazda/Audi/VW in Shreveport, Louisiana. Ask for Jim Bucher. Proud to be an Audi owner!
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Posts: 861
    New A6 and a new 3 series? Sounds good to me.
  • trejos28trejos28 Posts: 93
    I actually didn't go with the 3-Series. Couldn't come to terms with the BMW dealer. I didn't like the numbers. They were nice about it though. Simply the A6 was the better deal..more car, etc.
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Posts: 861
    A6 better deal, more car... That's how I felt about the A4 vs 325i. While I do think the 325i is a *little bit* more car than the A4, it's surely not $3-5k more car.

    I'm quite happy with my A4. I'd get another in a second. And if I were looking at the 5 series, I'd most definitely get an A6 instead. Ditto A8 and 740iL (I love the way the A8's look, although I don't ever see myself driving something that big).

    As it stands, I'm eying a possible 2004 S4 Avant as my next car :)
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Posts: 861
    You ordered the 3 series, right? Did the dealer change his numbers, or did you not agree on a purchase price ahead of time?

    I'm just curious...
  • trejos28trejos28 Posts: 93
    When the numbers were set a few months ago when I ordered the 325i I was told the lease rates would "probably" change. Probably salesman error in saying something like that; not sure, I'm definetely not a car buying pro.

    Nevertheless, they didn't and I noticed a reluctance to negotiate. Of course, they were more than willing to do so the day after I called off the deal.

    So instead of $1,700 down, $564 a month for 36 months (a number many on the lease and 3-Series boards said was very questionable on a $31,000 car, especially with the great deals on the 330i), I got the A6, around $34,000, for $496 a month, $0 down. And on top of that several friends of mine have/had Audis and they love them.
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Posts: 861
    And now you get Audi's biggest advantage - Quattro. I think Quattro is amazing, in the wet, snow, or dry.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Posts: 5,343
    This board is mainly an Audi [A6] love fest, but be that as it may -- and, no matter how you feel about BMW's, around here (southern Ohio) they are really really expen$ive. We have two Audi dealers and two BMW dealers (and two Porsche dealers, two Volvo dealers and one Mercedes, Jaguar, Rolls Royce and Saab dealership [for each brand]). Whenever I talk with my BMW driving friends, who generally give me grief about my Audi, I am always amazed that not only do their cars list for higher bucks (and have lower content -- remember quattro) the dealers basically don't discount much (for example, my friend bought a 740i short wheelbase and the discount off sticker was $1,000, then with some "haggling" $1,500 off). The only way to get the BMW for a reasonable monthly lease payment was to go with 10,000 miles per year, too.

    I almost always go test drive a BMW when I get ready to purchase a new car, and I must admit on a dry pavement day they are "incredible" (but not ultimate) driving machines. I even drove the new 3 series with the fake all wheel drive system and it was VERY nice -- but yumpin' yiminnie -- the price compared to -- well anything that Audi has that is in the approximate body/frame size is, well, not comparable.

    A 5 series, optioned out -- with the 6 cylinder engine -- is within a couple hundred dollars of an A6 4.2 (and I'm talking MSRP, not discounted). Comparing a 540 to a 4.2, the 540 starts "tickling the underbelly of an A8!"

    Yep BMW's are really really nice -- but for the money (once you've compared them to Audis -- plus quattro) -- they just seem overpriced or undervalued.

    I know I know -- but I would just kick myself if I bought a 530 when I knew I could have 4.2 or a 2.7T and gas and insurance and a little "mad" money left over each month.

    Apologies to BMW lovers, because I do think the cars are terrific -- if money was no object.
  • mmcbride1mmcbride1 Posts: 861
    I couldn't have said it better myself. I think Audis are tremendous values for the money when you compare them to MB and BMW.
  • gooddesigngooddesign Posts: 34
    Here it comes. I am dropping off my baby ('98 2.8Q) tomorrow for the following "issues".

    1. Replace defective stereo (volume knob no longer controls volume).

    2. Fix the loud creaking / squeaking noise coming from my front suspension (too loud to have clients or even friends in the car).

    3. Wiper fluid leaking (possible pump failure).

    4. Brake Service

    5. Confirm that headlights are aligned (they are Xenon - incredibly bright - I'm still getting flashed).

    Here's my question: Now that the warranty is expired, what are the odds of seeing a "good will" discount on the obvious things, like the suspension, which failed way too soon.

    I'm getting a good deal on the replacement stereo, which was quoted around $89.00 (originally $400-$500) but honestly, how many stereos go defective after three years? I think that they're just embarrassed about this item.

    While I don't expect the dealer to feel responsible for off-warranty items, they are locally owned by the same dealer who serviced our Nissans (2), Subaru (1) and Volkswagens (4). Has anyone experienced a lateral loyalty discount from an "umbrella" dealer? Is there a win/win scenario here?

    I would like some honest opinions other than the usual "the dealer owes you nothing!" and "that should be a recall." Please help.

    (I will post a follow up in the next day or two when I get the "word" from the dealer.)
  • You will pay for all "maintenance" items -- is my best guess. You shouldn't pay for the suspension -- of course that is my opinion. The other stuff, we need more data from you.

    Apparently, you have more than 50,000 miles on the car, but you didn't say how much. If you are WAY OVER on miles, I would think your chances of "free" work are diminished.

    If, on the other hand, you have run out of time and not out of miles on your A6's factory warranty, I would think you have a pretty good chance of having everything taken care of -- for good will (no charge, that is), etc.

    Is the car is good shape? Have you maintained the car at equal to or better than factory requirements? Are you your dealer's "best customer" (or at least a really good customer?). Have any of the problems you site been brought to the dealer's attention PRIOR to the expiration of the warranty?

    If you see the direction these questions are headed, I would offer the following opinion: You may have to pay for everything -- letter of the "law" kind of thing. Or, you may find yourself being the recipient of some good will on Audi's (not your dealer's) part. Generally dealers (unless they have done something "wrong") can't "eat" too much.

    I wouldn't "suggest" to them that if they don't comp all this stuff that you will never buy another Audi -- most businesses don't like dealing that way. I wouldn't want a customer, personally, that would threaten me (and I am speaking from both the dealer's and the Company's point of view). Of course, I don't work for either and their situation and the circumstances surrounding your issues may merit either your ire or them standing their ground.

    Give us some more details, please. And remember you will catch more whatevers with sugar than vinegar.
  • Here are my observations after giving up my BOW and driving my Audio for about a month now.

    1 - A6 feels bigger, and bigger is better
    2 - A6 feels more luxurious, and it is
    3 - A6 4.2 sucks down gas big time
    4 - A6 I sit higher and higher is better
    5 - A6 4.2 - exclusive - I have yet to see another on the road. Only 2.8s and 2.7s.
    6 - A6 insurance went up over $400 per year
    7 - A6 lease deal was 1,000 times better then what BMW was offering at the time
    8 - A6 is a sporty luxury car
    9 - BMW is a luxurious sports car
    10 - My kids love it especially the auto sun shades.
  • Sorry for the diversion in topic, but I thought maybe some of you A6 owners may have been previous 100 owners. I have a 1992 100CS and I just want to know if there is a secret to removing the rear headrests. Any help would be appreciated.
  • Call Bill Fleiman at Northland Audi @ 513-851-5900 if you can't get help on this board -- I had a 1992 and a 1993 100 and I can't remember any time I needed to remove the headrests, sorry.
  • jason64jason64 Posts: 50
    Hi Mark, this is my first post on this board. I've been reading this baord for a few weeks now and it is my impression that you seem to have a lot of experiences with Audi's and you are very articulate about your first hand experience. I was wondering before you bought your A6, did you consider any one of the Japanese competitors like the Lexus GS, Nissan Maxima, or Acura's? If not, what were your other choices? Thanks for your response.
  • I work with about 30 people most of whom are under the age of 40 and have relatively high incomes (well, until the recession hit, but that's another story). So, I helped several of the folks who were in car shopping mode put together some "test drive report cards" for the cars they would be test driving.

    One of the things that we considered was "monthly lease payment" -- as literally everyone I know or am related to leases their cars. I think I may know one person who "buys" -- in cash -- a new car every 3 or 4 years, so #1 on the list was lease payment (and ALWAYS no money down).

    The purpose of the lease payment is to narrow the field down -- among other things.

    Recently, I participated in a test drive adventure for a person who ultimately purhcased a BMW 740i (short wheelbase). I also participated in a test drive adventure for a person who ultimately purchased an Audi A4 and an Audi A6 2.7T. Other test drives which used my "test drive report cards" but that I did not participate in yielded a New Beetle (VW) purchase and a really really good condition used Acura coupe.

    Let's use one of the examples:

    Lease payment amount per month (target) $500/including tax (5% tolerance, meaning for the perfect car $525).

    Lease term (target) 36 months (10% tolerance, meaning 39 months would be OK)

    Stick shift first choice


    Four doors

    Front wheel or all wheel drive perhaps RWD with traction control (Cincinnati has moderate winters)

    Some creature comforts, e.g. heated seats, nice stereo, power windows, etc.

    Safety features (airbags, traction control or stability program, ABS etc.)

    "Sex appeal" (attractive -- very subjective)

    Warranty / Service availability and reputation

    "Q" factor -- a "sense" that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts; or some feeling that the car has capabilities that it's individual component pieces would seem incapable of producing -- almost a "I wonder how they do that" factor


    OUR "seems reasonable list" (not my list):

    Audi A4 (1.8T, 2.8 and demo S4)
    BMW 3 series -- including the AWD version
    Chrylser 300M w/sport package
    Honda Accord (never drove, lack of sexiness -- thought the car would be boring)
    Lexus (two of them)
    Mazda (626 -- never drove, sexiness factor again)
    Saab 93
    Subaru (never drove, couldn't get over the "lack of sexiness" factor)
    Toyota (never drove, thought it would be a Lexus light -- and lacked sexiness)
    Volvo (with all-wheel-drive)
    VW Passat (all wheel drive)
    Mercedes C class (never drove, least expensive one exceeded criteria above)
    Acura (never drove, after having driven the Lexus -- not a good reason, I know)


    We drove as many cars, back to back as is humanly possible -- and over the "exact same" route. We took along a "test" CD to try out the stereo system and played the same song with the balance and tone controls set as close as possible to the other test vehicles.

    As I recall, this took one entire Saturday and two evenings after work to complete. I drove the cars, my friend drove the cars -- sometimes a saleperson went with us, sometimes we went alone. As I recall the Japanese brands always had someone ride with us, which we did not care for as they usually talk the entire time. The talkative salesperson in the back seat, I am convinced, does more to delay purchases than encourage them.

    The short short list was pretty easy to come up with -- number one on the list turned out to be the S4 (but then price got in the way). The BMW was high on the list, but then at a price point, performance got in the way (when compared to a 1.8T @ 170HP, all the toys including sport package, audio, Xenons, ESP, stick shift, etc. -- the BMW couldn't cut it without a huge step up in price.) The Volvo, for some reason was a real turn off -- perhaps as the salesman almost tried to talk us out of it. . . .well, you understand.

    That new BMW - killer Lexus (IS300) was a lot of fun, but seemed less sporty than its looks would lead one to believe, or as my friend said "all yak and no shak" -- I think I understand that. The Luxus probably had the best sound system.

    Saab -- not much sexiness for my 31 year old friend (even though his wife thought it was cute).

    So, to make a very long story short -- the Passat, BMW, Audi A4 and for weirdness, the Chrysler 300M made "second" looks worthwhile for some reason.

    Net net: a "custom ordered 2001 Audi A4 1.8Tquattro sport with ALL available options" -- no money down, 39 months and $424 per month.

    The A6 2.7T was compared with a BMW 530i -- no contest, not even close -- my friend leased the 2.7T.

    The 740i -- that's another long story -- especially when you venture into a test drive of the Mercedes S class.

    Hope this helps.
  • Mark, I see that you've provided a lot of knowledgable info to townhall participants on both the A6 and S4 pages. Wondering if you'd like to render an opinion on my situation?

    I thought for sure that I was sold on the A6 2.7T, but made the "mistake" today of test driving a 2001 S4 w/tiptronic. Needless to say a thrill of a ride. Here's the dilemma. The dealership I visited has 12 loaded 2001 A6 2.7T's sitting in the lot, so I know they're ready to deal. I'm guessing that I can get a $46,825 MSRP for around $43,000 (about the top of my comfort range considering taxes and all). In the meantime, you've said a lot about the expected improvements in the 2002 A6 2.7T to make me feel like it would be smarter to wait rather than settle on a 2001 model. However, my fear is that I do wait for the 2002 model only to discover that they're selling for upwards of $48,000 with little bargaining to be done (price now getting outside of what I wanted to spend).

    Meanwhile, this 2001 S4 has a sticker of $41,925 and I think I can probably get it for around $40,000 (or the big banner on the car says lease for $500/mth, 36 mths). What to do?

    I love all of the amenities in the A6 and the extra cargo and rear passenger room. But realistically, 90% of the time I am in my car alone commuting and the S4 would be suitable enough (I have 2 small children and only occasionally have more than 2 adults in my car at the same time). The expected $3000 price difference between the A6 and the S4 is not critical to me. Do you see better value in one alternative versus the other 2001 A6 2.7T ($43,000) vs. 2001 S4 ($40,000)? Or, will the 2002 A6 2.7T really be worth the wait and the extra cash?

    Thanks in advance. Any other readers, if you care to give me our thoughts it would be much appreciated. I will post this same message on the S4 board.
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