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http://e-audi.tripod.com/eaudinewsarticles/synfhead1.htm
It's much easier to understand with the pictures and description together. I've tried it and adjusted my stereo to where I like it.
When I had my A4 loaner, I adjusted that stereo too. I really noticed a difference in that car.
Randy
thanks.
BTW, I have recently purchased the Yokohama AVS db tires and love them. They are very quite and whoever said it was right, I hear other car's road noise more than my own.
Please please please tell me that you bought your car used. And if so, was it from the Audi dealer?
I'm now hopeful (but still cautious) that I will get some relief for the multiple and expensive problems that I have recently run into.
Can you give any advice on how dealing with the AoA person was handled?
Thanks!
Mike
When I first read your comments, I was rather ticked off, but after thinking about them for a while, I am much more sympathetic. You are looking for a new car, and you don't want to make a mistake. What you would like is a "completely objective" set of criteria, i. e. a set of clear and convincing numbers or "facts" that prove that one car is best. Unfortunately, there is no such set of numbers.
If all you look at is internal dimensions, then you might be happy with an old used school bus. If all you want is speed, then you should get a very small, light, two seat sports car. And similarly for other numbers.
The problem is, you cannot sum up a car by its numbers. Even reviews by experts are, at least to a certain extent, opinions by people who,even if they are completely honest and competent, may not have exactly the same outlook on cars as you do.
On the other hand, this is true of most important things. Can you really justify your choice of spouse, friends, etc. by numbers. Can you imagine rating people as you meet them and choosing to be friends with only those with an 83 or better?
Just pick a car that YOU really like, and don't worry whether or not there might be a better choice out there. Enjoy the one you pick!
Good luck,
Steve
TIA,
Randy
I do urge you to consider, if used, getting an Audi Certified Pre-owned vehicle in the future, and if new, to patronize the dealer of whom you spoke so highly.
Whew. Good luck with your Audi, welcome to the fold.
Mark
Now, the purring/shuddering is only present when the brake is pressed at higher speeds, and there is a new found resistance to the symptoms when it is raining (it used to be really bad at practically any speed when the rotors got wet -- as in a typical Cincinnati downpour here in the humidity capitol of Ohio).
So, partially successful is my verdict, "mostly muted" at speeds that I would consider "around town" speeds. And, somewhat muted at speeds that are freeway speeds. The number of Ohio State Patrol cars out yesterday prohibited me from speeds in excess of 75MPH so god knows what it would be like at higher cruising speeds.
Well, I am driving to Pittsburgh (250+ miles one way) over the long weekend, and maybe there will be a caravan of 80 -85mph cars that I can tag along with and inevitably I will have to apply my brakes when some left lane bandit causes problems -- I suspect it will be full tilt boogie Shuddering.
I am calling my very helpful dealer service manager today -- and unless he tells me to immediately bring the car in for a new set of rotors, my guess is that this will be a next week function.
http://www.volkswagen.at/passat/passatw8lim/masse_1.htm
For both the 2001 Passat and the 2001 New Passat, you can get the dimensions from Edmunds. You can also get the 2001/2002 New Passat dimensions from vw.com
Here's what I've found. Dimensions are in inches. Length W8: 185.3, New 2001 185.2, Old 2001 184.1.
Width W8 68.8, New 2001 68.7, Old 2001 65.8.
Height W8 57.6, New 2001 57.6, 57.6
Wheelbase W8 106.5, New 2001 106.4, Old 2001 106.4.
Track width W8 59.5, New 2001 59.6
I suspect that the slight differences shown between the W8 and New 2001 Passat are due to rounding errors, since I had to convert the W8 data from mm to inches.
So, I'll assert again what I said before. The changes between the old 2001 Passat and the new 2001 Passat are what the manufacturers call a "freshening." Yes, the sheet metal changed. Yes, the body was strengthened. They added a bunch of chrome and changed the rear lights. But the basic structure undernearth did not change, as evidenced by the same height, wheelbase, and track width between new and old. It is the basic understructure which governs height, wheelbase, and track width. Overall length can be changed by minor modifications to the endcaps.
The Passat W8 is simply an options package on the 2001 New Passat. It is not a different car.
Note that VW is working on a model code-named D1, to be introduced in Europe next year, IIRC. The D1 will be larger than the Passat, will also use the W8, and will be up-market from the Passat W8. Perhaps your figures are actually for the D1?
I suspect there may be more overlap between the VW D1 and Audi A6, than between the Passat W8 and the Audi A6. Time will tell.
In Europe, Piech is trying to position VW as a competitor to Mercedes and Audi as a competitor to BMW. It will be interesting to see how that plays out here in the States.
Jared
At that time the best tire I could get was a Pirelli PZero Asymmetrico (spelling?) size 245 x 50 x 17. Big positive difference, a little bit of noise but tolerable. The Pirelli PZero Rosa would be my choice today as they are meant to be both Maximum Performance and quieter. But, I would also "listen" to what the TireRack salesperson had to say.
I would use the TireRack rating system, too.
Another thought:
Now, I don't know if there is a Dunlop SP 9000 in 245 x 50 x 17 or not, but this tire too would be a strong contender for me. The Pirelli P6000 --never again, the P7000 ditto (my friend put them on his new Passat and it sounded like 4 snow tires, talk about disappointment!)
Now, if you want to NOT "plus 0" your tires, you would of course stick with 225 x 55 x 17, the 245 x 50 x 17 does not upset the computer, speedometer or odometer, it is very very close to the same circumference. Personally I like the improvement of the plus zero tire. And IMO it looks better too. An A8 deserves a bigger footprint.
Let us know what you're thinking about.
And yes, I keep reading these posts about Yoko AVS db's and I feel that I should get compensated or at least thanked since I have raved about them so much (and by the way, I continue to be impressed by the Yoko AVS db's in handling, ride and lack of road noise.)
That's a wrap.
Mark
Tirerack had recommended a plus0 of the SP5000's but they're $226 each, and as I said, I hadn't committed to keeping the 17's on the car (LS's were only $102ea). We'll see what the Tirerack says about this mix-up. It's just a pain in the --- as now I'm sure I'll have to haul both sets around, get them changed out, and ship the others back. I may just have them ship them to the dealer and when the car goes in next week (for another set of front rotors!) have them put them on and ship them from there.
Thanks for your help. Still don't know what to do.
I just checked tirerack -- no Rosa's in 245 x 50 x 17, but you are correct the Dulop Sport 5000's did receive a high rating from users and it is in this size.
The 9000's are not even in this size, so although I do not recall a noise issue with them, it is moot.
Am I getting picked on or what? I was more than polite and never developed any "attitude" with her, she just flat out stated that my control arms were going to be my problem to pay for.
I can't help but feel like the red-headed stepchild of the A6 family... Perhaps I should be more aggressive.
As he had his car while I had my A6, I opted for the Pirelli p7000's (all four). They were quiet for a little while, but at about 10k miles they started to hum and were roaring full force at about 18k miles. Interestingly, I was cleaning up my 18"s Sunday and noticed that there is a huge amount of tread separation on one tire. It doesn't look like I had far to go before the whole tread cap blew off. Of course this is on the tire with the least amount of tread left (below wear bars)so I'm not going after Pirelli. The other's were horribly cupped (even though I rotated religiously every 5k miles). This showed me one flaw in Audi's service program, and I'm inclined to follow the old school of aligning every 10k miles especially if I out the 18's back on. Apparently FL has a great amount of crushed shells and coral in the concrete mix they use combined with our high heat, works tires pretty hard.
I don't think I judged my spouse by her performance stats, measurements and reliability, but then again...
Clarification please: The new W8 Passat will be based on or identical to the current 2001.5 New Passat, true?
If true, the New Passat (W8) will not have a wheelbase that is as long as the current A6, also true?
If both are true, then the W8 would be inbetween an A4 and an A6?
And, based on what I have read, the W8 will be less than $40K?
OK so I reread Car and Driver for their comments on Passats (old and new) -- they like the Passat, perhaps it is not a stretch to say they love it. But, while the comments are generally glowing, they compare the Passat to Accords and Camrys (and perhaps even certain Mazadas) and generally say that it is a top class European Family Sedan. And this is not meant to be a Japanese bash, it would be somewhat different if they said the New Passat was like a Lexus or Infinity -- since this board is is some fashion comparing the Passat to the Audi (A4 or A6 depending on who's posts you read).
They also rave over the A6 (one of the C&D 10best) and they use terms like Sport Sedan, which they also save for BMW and some Mercedes reviews and editorials.
To read the review of the New Passat for example is to read a review that makes the car seem simultaneously Audi like and in the very next sentence, Lumina like. Uh, er, is this the "best of both worlds" -- I thought that Piech was positioning the VW marques to go up against Mercedes -- I guess we have to wait for the D1 for that. That, BTW, was a question or at least a request for this erudite group's thoughts on the subject.
Thanks.
However my information concerning the marketing intent for the W8 is different than Jared's. My perusal of auto mags, particularly Autoweek, suggest that VW, or at least VW o A, plans to try to position it as virtually a separate model, despite having the Passat designation. Time will tell. The mags have also suggested that you won't see many of them, intending that it is to be a "hallo" car that rubs off on the rest of the VW line. Plenty of leather, wood, Bi-xenons and electronic goodies.
As Mark observed, the current Passat has a wheelbase and track between that of the old A4 and current A6. I know that the '02 A4 is bigger, though I don't recall the dimensions, which would have to mean it's closing in on Passat size. Saw some decent photos of a bunch of new A4's over at AW, they are GOOD looking cars.
The prices I've seen quoted are around $40K, but if it's anything like Audi prices, I'd suspect it to end up north of there, particularly if they're in limited supply. I think one of the biggest steps forward for VW, is the new warranty. Believe it's 4/50K. I think that more than anything will begin to elevate VW's perception in the U.S. But while Piech wants VW to compete with Mercedes, I think it will be a long time coming in the U.S. And I think that's is why journalists looking for easy comparisons are more comfortable comparing a Passat to a Camry than an E class.
The only thing that irritates me at this point is that Tirerack is making me pay the shipping back on the old tires and will probably not include the 1st set of shipping charges in my refund. I will also be on the hook for 4 additional mount and balances as well. I'm going to wait until I see a refund before I start to complain, I have, after all, put about 500 miles on these tires and don't know what they plan on doing with them when I return them. Trust me, if I don't get 100% of my money back the calls and letters will start flying.
"Clarification please: The new W8 Passat will be based on or identical to the current 2001.5 New Passat, true?" True.
"If true, the New Passat (W8) will not have a wheelbase that is as long as the current A6, also true?" True.
"If both are true, then the W8 would be inbetween an A4 and an A6?" Certainly in between the 2001 A4 and the A6. My recollection is the same as timcars that the 2002 A4 has a wheelbase that is a couple inches longer than the 2001 A4. Dunno the exact numbers or how that compares to the Passat's wheelbase.
"And, based on what I have read, the W8 will be less than $40K?" It's been a while since I read an article about it, but yes, that seems to be my recollection as well.
I'm not aware of VW planning to market the W8 Passat separately from the standard Passat, as timcar suggested. On the one hand, it would make sense since there's a big spread in price between a strippo 1.8T Passat GLS (~$20k) and the W8. On the other hand, the cars will look almost identical on the outside, so how do you market the same car two different ways?
The Passat is certainly tuned to have a relatively soft ride. Too soft for my tastes. It isn't marketed as a sport sedan. Thought I'd read on VWVortex a while back about folks putting on Audi A4 factory sport suspension parts on Passats. But I may be hallucinating. Certainly there are aftermarket solutions, but most folks buying a $40k Passat won't be interested in that sort of thing, I suspect.
I agree with timcar about the warranty issue. The previous 2 year warranty was a joke.
I think the bigger issue is going to be the VW stealerships themselves. I have a hard time seeing a typical BMW/Lexus owner walking into one of these dumps, getting treated poorly by the typical VW salesman, getting treated even worse by the service dept., getting a Chevy Cavalier loaner car (after waiting 45 minutes for the local rental car people to deliver it), and then being happy they bought a $40k VW. VWOA has a LONG way to go to bring their dealerships up to par.
Jared
Jared
Zoom zoom indeed!
1. The car vibrates intensely with braking at highway speed. Audi replaced the rotors and cleaned sensors. Steering wheel shakes etc.
2. The car has a squeaking (not a squealing)sound when the windows are down ; like a spring is squeaking-- it's worse when braking. Sounds like suspension more than brakes. No cause found by Audi after repeated visits.
Squeaking noise is a new one, and could be just about anything.
You may want to visit here:
http://forums.audiworld.com/a6/
try a search and post your question again. I'd wait until Tuesday morning to post, as the board gets really slow on weekends and holidays, and if you post now, is likely to get buried.
Good luck.
He has, of course, had to deal with some internal hurdles, either with his employer, the dealer or with AoA. These hurdles are NOT indicative of a lack of cooperation or willingness to "cure" the problem. They appear to be hurdles that relate to the accounting and payment mechanisms between AoA and the individual dealership.
The service manager has located from a company called KVH a set of aftermarket A6 4.2 rotors(which I am told are either similar or identical to the 2.7T, the A8 and recent S4's.)
These rotors are specifically made for the Audi's but they are full of holes -- they are "cross drilled." These rotors cost more than the "internal" cost of Audi parts and of course do not come from an AoA warranty warehouse -- hence the two or three day delay. The service manager has to get them paid for, and there is no direct method to do so -- but, there is an exception method. The service manager told me at first to bring my car in on Sept 4th for the new cross drilled rotors (and new Audi pad replacement). Then he called me at the last minute to tell me it would be a couple of days delayed.
The point of all of this to anyone on this BB who, like me and apparently so many others (when you take into account the postings on the AudiWorld forums added to the postings here at edmunds) who have this brake "shuddering" or as timcar has called it "purring" is to inform you that Audi and this dealer, Joseph Northland Audi, Cincinnati, genuinely want to fix the issue and are, IMO, going to extraordinary lengths to do so.
Perhaps other high line auto mfg's and dealers would do the same, I suspect that the vast majority of car companies and dealers would not go to these lengths. Once more, Audi and AoA and my dealer have shown their willingness to make the customer happy.
While I am still not happy -- at his very moment -- with the brakes on this high-buck German car, I am delighted with the company and the dealer and this, among a few other reasons (including the product overall is excellent) is why I continue to praise Audi and AoA and will continue to "vote with my dollars" by buying yet other Audis in the not too distant future. I hear the 2003's will be another leap forward.
As soon as I get the new cross drilled rotors and pads installed and drive them around 200+ miles, I will again report.
Happy, safe labor day.
Mark
Thanks and Happy Labor Day.
A friend bought a 2001.5 Passat, and had nothing but good things to say about it. One test drive sold us. The German sedans are just so much fun to drive, and the quality is impressive. We've narrowed it down to the Passat and the A8, but I feel the Passat is the better value. We're going to wait until this spring and compare the W8 to the A6.
Thanks/
Also, there seems to be no tendency of AoA to "help" with mechanical parts on Second-Owner cars like mine. Does anyone have any experience with Electronic parts? My point being that you can't really abuse the sealed "electronics" like you can with, say the transmission.
Maybe it's just a pipe-dream of mine since they haven't helped with any of the other malfunctioning items.
Anyone? Anyone?
Don't know anything about costs first hand -- and bet that you MAY have a tough argument to win with respect to AoA paying for the full boat.
But, hope springs eternal. It cannot hurt to ask!
One question though - do you think we'll see the S6 in the US anytime?
Bring an S6 Sedan, with either auto or manual tranny here to 'Merica!
If you must bring ONLY an automatic to our shores, please bring the 44 pound lighter, more fuel effecient and higher performance 6 SPD Tiptronic that was announced earlier this year on some other web site!
Amen.
Check out the review of the new A4 and the Pre-review of the W8 Passat in the new Car and Driver -- the Passat is definitely off my list after reading this -- it sounds like the offspring of a VW New Passat and a Cadillac. What a shame.
Then I read a European car mag review of the W8 (which of course had a 6spd manual) and while they did carp somewhat about the mushy suspension, the powertrain (W8 w/6spd manual) got raves.
Hello, is this thing on?
Why are manual transmission going the way of the Hula Hoop?
Without exception, anyone who I have EVER been able to convince to take a test drive of one of these fine German Cars WITH a stick shif -- becomes a convert.
What a shame.
Now, I sit here knowing that you may recall I have a Tiptronic in my A6 4.2 -- my only excuse is I was not given a choice (with the great Audi 4.2 V8).
Hopefully the new S4 or the (see above prayer) S6 will offer us a choice!
PS -- even the soon to be here new Cadillac will offer a stick shift -- what's up with that?!?
I will now step off the soapbox.
I'm getting very eager to see the beauty, and hope to be free to pick it up as soon as it's ready. I have the fortunate occupation that requires me to be out of town, or on call a lot, so I use that fact to intensify my desire to get out of the unimaginative rice burner TLC I'm driving now.
Mark, know any reputable tire company that'll take the factory tires in trade and fit the Yokos
in Cincy? I don't want to pay someone to dispose of perfectly good new tires. South Bend is
about 250 miles away to drive up and pick 'em up.
jk