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I absolutely enjoy my 2001 A6 (2.7T w/6-speed). I see that some of the features in this model aren't currently available in the new 2005. I'm considering a trade this spring and will go back to Audi first. Before I make the trade though, I'll have to visit Acura.
Now why would gold 23799 BMW's lease cost him $3,600 less than my lease. Couple of possibilities. The BMW depreciates less than Audi, 60% vs. 55%. Their money factor was also lower. They may have hedged their currency exposure better than Audi. Maybe they are making up the difference by doing more volume or maybe they misjudged and need to move more cars. Do you remember last spring, Audi was buying back leases and releasing '04's at extremely competitive rates. I could have leased a 2.7 S Line for $620 a month then. So in the end timing is the key just like in the stock, housing and real estate markets.
In some respects I see the disadvantage Audi is in with regard to leases. BMW has the "badge" superiority, which I don't think is justified. But how many people do we see on these sites CPO-ing their A6's at lease turn in? Few. But it is ALL over the 5 boards. BMW is able to provide better residuals because it is likely they are better able to sell those coming off lease. Every Audi dealership in my area has a half dozen three year old A6's sitting on the lot. I'm a tech buff- need my bluetooth, sat radio, and Nav- but it was soooo tempting to turn in my A8 for a certified Audi.
Mark, let me say something. I think you would be VERY dissapointed with anything you drove that was not Audi. This coming from a BMW leasee who loves his new 530i. But it's a different car than my A8 and A6's have been. I wanted a change, and it was spurred on by a more aggressive price structure. But if you've gone back to Audi again and again there is obviously a deep love for all things Audi. I've followed this board for a little over a year, and you are all over it. Can you see yourself getting this excited about another make?
TIA
As you know, I am deciding between the BMW 2006 330i and the Audi 2006 A4. In your opinion, why is audi releasing the 2005.5 A4 in March and then releasing another version in the summer (5 months later )? Also, from reading your posts over the past year, it seems you are leaning toward the 3.2 2006 A4, why have you not ever considered the 2006 BMW 330i? Finally, what are the major differences between the 2005.5 and the 2006 A4?
Thanks
Thanks
The 05.5 A4 HAS to come out for a couple of reasons. Most important the new BMW 3 will be out in second quarter '05. Audi wants to shore up the lineups looks. The current A4, while, IMHO, hardly long in the tooth needs to be made current with respect to the technology -- no reason to update the last gen A4.
The 2006 A6 will offer S-Line (AKA ultra sport), probably receive the fully A6 gizmo treatment (MMI, maybe, smartkey maybe, voice activation, etc.) The new A4 will have the S4 suspension -- also a good counter measure against BMW. Probably the car mags will still prefer the Bimmer, but the Audi will make substantial performance gains with the 2.0T, 3.2, S4 suspension, etc.
A6 sales in 2004 really brought Audi down (AoA, that is) -- the product line probably should have been refershed 6 months sooner. Hindsight.
There will be changes, evolutionary changes between the .5 and the 06. If I can, I will hold out for the '06 Sline A4 3.2 with a 6spd if such is brought to our shores.
This is assuming I still remain an Audi owner, a probability that keeps on moving closer to reality.
Obviously you need to buy an extended warranty, but can you get hit with surprises?
I can make and receive calls through the BT, but I do not have my phones directory listed. I have to manually input my list into the MMI. When I want to make a call to a number that I haven’t imputed yet, I have to use the phone to dial it out. Technically picking up the phone is against NY law. Then I can talk using the car's microphone and listen through the spkr system, which BTW everyone says sounds great. No problems on both ends hearing the conversation. Most people don't realize you’re on a car speakerphone.
I have voice recognition and I'm not sure if you need it to give a BT phone voice commands. I'll ask others if they can without the voice recognition and no cradle. I'm also curious and I'll let you know. With the A6 my voice commands go through the MMI and not the phone and only to names listed in the MMI directory that I have "name tagged". Before this I had a motorola hf800 spkr, and it allowed me to voice command direct from my phone. Maybe the cradle will afford the same capabilities, but it's still not available.
One last suggestion. Bring your car to the wireless store and see how it works with the phone before you buy it. I'm sure they'll be happy to that for you. BTW the BT code is 1234.
Hope this helps you.
I haven't had an Audi for a long time, and not since I lived in the UK. I've been driving a 4wd Japanese pocket rocket for quite a while and I need to get back to something that's comfortable and practical yet fun to drive.
I really like the A6 interior, and I'm smitten by the "sports car with wagon practicality" concept that Audi has epitomised since the RS2.
What I *really* want is something not offered in the USA ... a quick A6 Avant with a manual gearbox (or even better, the dual-clutch thingy).
... I test drove a used S4 Avant (2.7T) and it was lovely but felt small inside, and the boot (trunk) is tiny.
... I looked at an allroad, but I don't care for the jacked up look, and I'd really prefer to get something a little older and spend less money.
... they now offer a V8 with a manual gearbox in the USA, and even an Avant, but only in the A4 body (S4 B6), not in the A6, and used ones are quite pricey.
Aargh!
My "best compromise" idea is to look for an A6 2.7T sedan 6spd, and go for the roomy interior over the wagon body. They seem to be cheaper than S4 B5's at a given age / mileage too.
I've been reading a lot about mechanical issues though, and that's a little scary - are these cars truly substandard in reliability, or is the sample biased (people rarely post articles saying "my car is fine as usual")?
The car companies place a high ego premium on certain things: BMW = "M" for instance. I believe that Audi has three or four auto performance lines in mind.
Note: the "S" as Avant only in the US was certainly an effort to prevent folks from saying "S" cars can't compete with "M" cars (at least the comparison that MIGHT have been put forth of the M5 and the S6 would not have put Audi S's in a positive light, despite the price differences.)
The four Audi lines will (hopefully) soon be available in the US (NA actually):
o Basic Audi Line
o S-Line
o S
o RS
The upcoming A4 will have S-Line (today it is called Ultra Sport); the current A6 4.2 ONLY has S-Line (I would hope that the 3.2 would get it too, since it is more about things other than the motor); an A8 S-Line? who knows; we've enjoyed S8's here and there is almost certainly a market for them. TT S-Lines? Why not? New A or Q "7" in S-Line (why not?) and finally another allroad (or was it just a tease in Detroit?) -- why not an S-Line there.
S-Line seems to me to be a trim and handling package (spoilers, badges, wheels, tires, suspension tweaks) more than a brute force cybernetics package.
What is currently very interesting to me is the answer to the question: "will there be a 2006 A4 3.2 S-Line with a manual and/or DSG transmission?"
The S cars are usually S-Line plus more go and stop bits (more HP and torque and bigger, better brakes.) And, finally the RS cars are the maximum performance cars for those with lots of discretionary income. The RS6 was over $80,000 and wasn't even chock full of the lux bits that even base line US bound A6's seem to have -- but oh the engine and suspension and performance. . . .
At this point, that is the only answer I am interested in hearing about. If and when will there be a 2006 A4 3.2 S-line with DSG.
When someone finds out that answer, please let me know!
Thanks
There are other discussions about the other vehicles that keep coming up ... you should be able to find them with the search features, but of course I'll be glad to help if I can.
Let's let this conversation get back to the A6 now - thanks.
The conversation is relevent as we are not discussing the A4 specifially, but as an alternative to those whom desire a straight drive a6, but cannot get one at this time.
I understand the point, but find Edmunds to be ever so more restrictive each year. I have not participated for some time, and am surprised that just the mere mention of a different model in the course of conversation requires any amount of intervention!
It is a very nicely run conversations by the way, and we appreciate your intention.
Thanks,
The Comparisons board has existed for four years or so, so this isn't something new we are instituting. Why don't you drop me an email if you'd like to discuss this further.
Why don't you - or anyone interested in pursuing specific comparisons to the A6 - follow that link and fire up whatever seems appropriate. Then I'll post a link here so that those who are interested in continuing the comparos can join you?
That would be the best course of action at this point.
Thanks!
Alternatively, I would gladly purchase a cradle. Where are you seeing them for sale and any idea if they have them for a blackberry. Thanks.
http://www.audiusa.com/common/images/bluetooth.pdf
I don't see your blackberry listed
http://www.nuclearelephant.com/papers/v710.html
I spoke with manager of the dealership and he seemed to think that they really have not tried that hard to push the car. they have a few in the lot now and he said to look for the introdution and advertising to kick in. Audi has all new people at the top in regards to the marketing area now. I asked him about leasing and he said the higher money rates are not helping. I mentioned that higher MSRP BMW'w lease for less, but he said that Audi would have to do somthing about it. They have a ton of A4's on the lot, and had a few a6's.
They gave me a 2004 silver allroad 2.7t with tip. No lag experienced.
Try Arcane's suggestion, I think he has the solution.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=1- 03904
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I guess I'm being greedy and extremely foolish, but even though I just purchased a 2005 Mustang GT, I still want to shuffle some funds around and buy a new A6 4.2. It just feels like the thing to do. It's been a couple of months now and I still can't get it out of my head.
http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_- id=8776&page_number=4
- Ray
Thinking 14.8 at 97 constitutes at least OK numbers, given the AWD . . .
Also I notice that the function on the car MMI and info screen for last number dialed and last call received show empty even after i have just dialed someone on the MMI. Again, not a big deal-i am extremely happy that when I get in the car, my phone works wihtout even having to take the phone off my hip.
I have an Audi A6 (2005) fitted with the Audi phone system (dealer got it wrong as I ordered Bluetooth prep!). My understanding is that this system is still Bluetooth i.e. the Audi phone. I would like to use my personal handset (Nokia 6230) to pair with the car rather than inserting the SIM card each time I enter the vehicle.
Is this possible ?
Help !
I understand the lease rates are bloated on the Audi, but the chrysler would not have any discount, nor the residual be as good.
The warranty on the 300 3 yrs, 36months?
I see the attraction, but are you willing to give up that german sophistication for a Hemi?
I pose these questions to you fairly as the above is part of the Audi Mystique.
THe best values are usually found NOT in the top of line super limited deluxe grand version, but in the lower end of a better car. For examble, the 300 would still have the same basic components as the rental car version selling for 24k. Adding amenities does not make the overall car better. THe Hemi will be a rush, no doubt, but overall, is it a better drive? For many many folks, its a good deal. They get the king of the hill mac-daddy version at a reasonable price. To do that in an A6 would put you over 60k.
IN the end, its thirsty, and its an automatic!
Its also interesting how we are acting like a "reality based show" in dealing with your car purchase!
This, really is fun -- and frustrating. For some 27+ cars, NOTHING (IMHO) could touch the Audi overall.
There actually do seem to be contenders now.
And BTW, I appreciate and agree with the assessment vis a vis the Chryco 300.
Kinda like a whack upside the head! Thanks, I needed that.
ITs a shame your not 6 months or a year away from your decision as the market is now flooded with choice in the sub-50k segment. Amazing price point!
IN the end, perhaps they push Audi to be more aggresive on its pricing. FUnny, those Japenese offerings won't give you the manual tranny either, And I might guess the BMW awd won't be a stick either.
It is a good time for choices. I suppose you have to look at the Lexus also.
Doe anyone also have a 50,000 mile total care program? FLying Naked past 36k on a lease is scarey!
I gotta say, so far only the A6 thus far gets under my skin as the only "gotta have" based on looks and interior. But I have not driven any of these choices, and won't for another year until I am in the game.
Mark, as always, keep us posted!
What do you mean by that?
Running naked in any European car is risky, unless you literally could make a decision to walk away from a car, park it on the side of the road, abandon it and buy another.
One little hiccup in an Audi -- say a problem with a 2.7T turbo, can rapidly run way above $10,000.
This is not an Audi phenom, either.
Just don't run naked is the best advice.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
European brands are in the "more risky" category, based on what I've researched.
In the past, the argument was that if one wanted a spirited vehicle (as opposed to an Asian appliance), it was necessary to put up with this.
Now, with the M and other Asian (forgive me, I've heard that Asian is no longer PC -- I'm not sure what this week's substitute is) offerings, I'm thinking that it's going to be uphill sledding for Audi, BMW & Merc.
Of course, time will tell.
Besides which, most lease and only a few actually buy and hold. Very different P/L considerations.
And, despite my hope that European cars are UNBELIEVABLY reliable, the statistics generally don't support European reliability. If you believe USA Today, they reported (in 2004) that European cars have taken a step backward in the reliability category. I hate to even think that way, but it is also supported anecdotally, too.
The Japaense (or Asian or whatever the geography today is to be called) brands -- even those built in NA -- conversely keep raising the reliability bar.
Thus far, speaking as a person who bleeds four little intertwined rings, Audis are breathtakingly expensive to maintain and repair.
Now, having said that, BMW's seem even moreso. Our one BMW gave birth to the notion of the one hundred dollar oil change (but they always washed the car -- woo woo).
The Audi and BMW "advantage" has made these cars no more reliable or better built (although I think the cars just keep getting better all the time, but what do I know?) -- all that these programs have done is make the cars "feel" less expensive to own.
Perception is reality in that case.
And, as much as I know it is very possible to find the lemon Lexus, Acura or Infiniti cars (you can read about them all over the web) it is also less likely to happen based both on anecdotes AND FOR (frequency of repair) data.
The trade off between GREAT driving cars and reliable cars is receding -- as noted by the test of the new M35 and the A6 in MT magazine -- but there are still some of us that believe it will eventually be possible to have both exceptional reliability and "no boring cars."
I haven't yet driven either the M35 or the RL, but unless this is a huge propaganda effort, it certainly seems that the Germans had better look over their shoulder to see the Japanese blinking their left turn signal -- "move over?"
Gulp.
Having said this, I would also want to keep a warranty in force for my Japanese car (if I ever acquire one).
I have heard too many stories on these forums of cars breaking down and repair bills easily being over $2k. The cost of one big repair would easily pay for the extended warranty. Whether it is fair or not, the more expensive cars are also more expensive to repair.
The inevitable tease about the new car happened, I'm fine with that.
The US availability date becomes known, but when the date finally arrives there are damn few cars available and the lease rates (and I am told that the majority are leased) are off the chart nuts and the only way to even come close to a "reasonable" payment is to extend the term to 42 months.
Some folks start shopping the A6 lease rates against "competitive" cars -- the Audi seems expensive and for the first time in my long tenure as an Audi customer, there is REAL competition from all over the globe.
Way too little inventory.
I have seen ONE A6/C6 on the highway here in Cincinnati (and we have two dealerships, both of them dedicated to Audi only). My dealership says that sales of "new cars" (not just C6's) for November and December rose from 30 to 50 cars per month (my dealer moved to a "better" location in October).
There is ONE "stripped down" A6 C6 on the showroom floor and it is beige on beige -- not bad looking, but not eye catching: and stripped??? Who placed that order?
Some hype was built up long before there were any cars. Then when the car somewhat becomes available, there is little press. Now the first comparison test has come out (granted it is in Motor Trend, but for some people that is a GOOD thing) and the Audi 3.2 does not acquit itself well at all (4th place out of 6 cars).
The mostly pretty good review in Car and Driver was of a $60,000 A6/C6 4.2 and the review busted the Audi for being too harsh, hard, firm, stiff and other unflattering words to describe a new Premium Sport Sedan. And, the C6 doesn't make C&D's ten best list (but the previous A6 2.7T & 4.2 did!)
Audi, last year, started marketing an S-Line 2.7T with 265 HP and 280 lb/ft torque (at about 200 RPM) and apparently brought the 3.2 to market as the "heir apparent" (read replacement) to the 2.7T throne -- yet the performance by most of the stats used to promote a car's engine were POORER than the car it replaced. I have no quarrel with the HP and torque of the C6 3.2, but the 0-100kph performance actually went backwards from a less expensive 2.7T S-Line equipped model (you could just see someone looking at a $49,500 A6 2.7T S-Line and a $50,250 A6 3.2 and the lease payment differences were in the $100's of dollars.)
Yea, yea, the A6's sales for 2004 here in the US were down, so the lease deals were, for many folks, almost "unbelievable" for the S-Line 2.7T A6 -- I get that, too, the new car made some people delay getting their new car until the C6 was available. But the price differences (thinking again of the monthly lease payments) were HUGE -- way way way too far apart considering that there were plenty of 2.7T S-Lines that were "just south of $50,000" sitting on the showroom and on the lots.
Then the S-Line on the C6 becomes available but ONLY on a hard to come by 4.2? I remember when the Ultra Sport came out and could be had on the A4 1.8T quattros, they almost literally "flew off the floor!"
An S-Line 3.2 (much the same as there was a 2.7T S-Line, but no C5 4.2 S-Line) should have been first or simultaneous with the 4.2 S-Line -- and for pity's sake do WHATEVER it would take to get the 3.2 to have a sub 7 second 0-100kph time (a slightly shorter final drive ratio would get it down a couple of tenths of a second and overdriving 6th a smidge more would have somewhat offset the fuel economy hit.)
Then (and you -- Audi AG and AoA -- know this is coming) a new Acura RL comes out with AWD (or SH-AWD, as they call it) and a 300 HP V6 with "all the toys" that can be had on an Audi A6 (and some that can't), but essentially lists for ~10% less, "apples to apples" (but not really since to get the Acura at a price of 90%, it has to be compared to a loaded C6 3.2, not to the V8 which makes the Audi's price appear to be even more bloated.)
And, where are the TV ad's? -- other than on the History Channel or the Discovery Channel?
Maybe my BMW loving friend is right, who claims Audis appeal (and are marketed) to the left brain, even though most cars are purchased (so he says) by the right brain (the new A6 ad is based on an algorithm for Pete's sake.) He thinks, and I largely agree, that Audis TV presence, er, sucks, on a good day. Check out the Acura RL and most of the BMW ads -- which, by the way you don't have to hunt for. My wife sure remembers the four little angles flying next to the X5 in the commercials, if you get my drift.
Dr. Piech (the father of quattro, don't you know?) said, some twenty-five years ago: "all premium sporting cars -- sedans, coupes, roadsters, two, four and more seaters will EVENTUALLY offer AWD (and he gave all the reasons we here on Edmunds town-hall know and love) across their entire lines. When they do, Audi will have to further move the product along to retain and capitalize upon its ability to no longer differentiate itself by virtue of quattro." (sic)
What I think that means is that for almost 25 years, regardless of strong arguments that CAN or COULD be made to the contrary, Audis were able to be easily differentiated by Quattro and the Audi "value proposition." From 1984, through 2003 perhaps, Audi brought products out that were virtually peerless and for the price were downright bargains. Check the lease calculators for a new BMW 5 series and a new A6 (both with 6 cylinder engines.)
And, yes I know and can articulate the arguments from the BMW, Mercedes and overall the RWD crowd about the superiority of RWD, yadda yadda yadda. I am not here to start or participate in an argument on that subject.
The facts -- the MARKETING facts -- were (past tense) that Audis across the board quattro availability was a segment leading or at least segment differentiating feature. This differentiation is (present tense), like a huge ice sculpture out in above freezing weather(and this year some other car companies came out with some blow torches); it is melting, what with the near universal availability of Mercedes AWD's, and the steady march into AWD availability of the BMW product line. Ditto Acura (coming soon across the line) and ditto Infiniti, Lexus, Volvo, VW and although not in the same class, Subaru and even Porsche (coming at the all driven wheels are better for "this that and THE OTHER thing" from these manufacturer's various vantage points.)
I write this as from the perspective of a long long long time fan (heck, a maven) of the brand. Certainly NOT AoA's best customer -- but, I'll wager we're in the top quartile of their best customers (27+ Audis since 1978 must at least have earned my wife and me the status of "honorable mention," i.e.)
I am frustrated with the roll out of the new products, the lack of "the whole package" approach (read on for an analogy.)
I don't know or care if you are a Democrat, Republic