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Actually a good design, just not much room to see. I used a mirror to look and then it was easy to see what moves and how.
Took about a half hour.
Strangely not one Dodge dealer in my area had both belts in stock.
I did it without the special tool, but it is even easier if you have it. It is basically an extra long ratcheting bow end wrench.
I also have a 1999 ES, now with 105,000 miles. Only problem other than routine maintenance was that transmission speed sensor, but that was years ago. Have had the timing belt and water pump change done, new brakes, frequent transmission service. What color is yours? This one's gold (champagne, they called it) and tan inside. :shades:
Ed
Mine is also champagne and tan interior. I had a trans sensor go out about two years ago. I also had to replace a front wheel bearing. Other that that, very reliable. The sealed wheel bearings are real hit and miss. Typically very reliable, but they do break. I have used synthetic oil in mine since 3000 miles. The next oil change will be at 70,000 miles. This car is very smooth and fast and gets great mileage. If Chrysler had made the 3.2L engine the base engine in all Intrepids that would have sold a lot more of them.
Fred,
That's not a lot of miles now that these cars are between 6 and 7 years old. We put a lot of miles on ours due to trips to our kids' college about 250 miles away, and trips from PA to SC about twice a year. The mileage has slowed down some now, with both kids graduated and back in our area.
Actually, IIRC, the 3.2 WAS optional in the '98-01 ES, for $500. I think in those first few years they used a 2.7 that was slightly modified with dual intake runners or something. It only bumped up the hp by 2 (202 versus 200) and torque by maybe 5 (195 versus 190 ft-lb) but the whole torque curve was higher across the board, so it did make the car much more responsive.
Still, I think the best route was in 2002, when they simply made a slightly de-tuned 3.5 standard in the ES.
One thing I admired about the '00-05 Impala was that you could get the 3.8 as an option in the base model. I doubt very many were ordered that way, though.
Additionally the A/C evaporator crapped out last spring and needs to be replaced - wouldn't take re-charging we tried a couple of times with diminishing returns(another $1200 for parts and labor). $4400 in repairs for a 6 year old car with 55K miles.
I am sick to my stomach. I know there have been a lot of problems with the motors on these cars and that Daimler doesn't care.
I have to weigh spending close to $5000 on this car (i have to do some other minor work- brake pads, tires) as well.
Anyone think it's worth it? Or do I take the tax deduction?
So I would say fix the car only under two conditions...
(1) you really like the car otherwise
(2) you want to hold off on sinking money into buying a replacement car.
For instance, in my case, I'm trying to hold off on buying another car until at least my 38th birthday. That's a little over two years away. My monthly payment on my '00 Trep base model was $347.66. Anything new that I want would probably be close to that. So I might actually be able to talk myself into getting the engine fixed. I'd probably hold off on the a/c though, but that's because I'm a bit of a masochist. Plus it usually doesn't get THAT hot where I live, so as long as the windows still roll down and the blower motor works, I can deal with it.
So just focusing on the value of the car, it's probably not worth it. BUT, if you could spend $5000 without having to put anything major into it for another year or so, it might be something to look into. IF you still like the car. If you're fed up with it at this point though, you might not want to put any more money into it, because then you may resent your decision.
Now, in my case, my 2000 base model is pushing 116,000 miles. And I have the 2.7, which I've heard is around $5,000 just for the engine. Then there's the labor to put it in. In my case, having a cheaper model with higher mileage, and an engine that costly, I'd just unload the car at that point.
I wonder how expensive it would be to fit the 3.2 in place of a 2.7? There was a '99 Intrepid ES at the Mopar show in Carlisle, PA last year where the owner had that done. If my 2.7 went bad and I could get a 3.2 put in for $3200 I might consider it. But I doubt it would be that cheap, since it's swapping in a different motor and not a direct replacement.
I am not sure about 2000, but in 1999 the Intrepid ES came only with the 3.2L engine. I have heard nothing bad about these engines, or their big brothers the 3.5L. If you have a 2.7L engine, they were prone to "sludge" whatever that means if you used extended oil changes. How did the place that you took the car to figure out that you needed an entire new engine? If the engine was running and the engine that you have is an interference engine you can trash the valves and pistons with a broken timing belt. You would have to pull the heads to figure out how bad it is. What exactly happened when your engine stopped running? You may be interested in this site: http://www.faqs.org/qa/qa-10055.html
To answer your final question, I would not put much money into this car, but it is worth looking into it a little more.
What a shame, car is in such unused shape, but between the A/C evaporator and the engine, it doesn't make sense to invest that much $$$ into this and then wait for the inevitable next big thing to break.
I'll never buy a Dodge/Chrysler again.
Car had 67,000 miles on it when I traded it in after the 2nd transmission replacement - dealer took it straight to auction; they told me they don't like selling used Intrepids - bad for their reputation.
I now have an used old man's Grand Marquis LSE, and while it certainly isn't stylish, the car feels built like a vault compared to the Intrepid. My mechanic maintained a local police fleet - told me the cars are built to last.
It's so square, it's hip.
Dear Tom and Ray:
You've often mentioned that timing belts should be replaced before they break, because on some cars, engine damage can be severe. I own a 1986 Honda Accord LXi. Due to a divorce, I've lost some of my service records, and I don't know how long ago the timing belt was replaced. Do you know if this is one of the engines that would be damaged if the belt breaks while I'm driving? Thanks. -- Jeff
Ray: Well, I've heard of nasty divorces before, but this is the first time I've ever heard of one spouse getting the service records. "He gets the Honda, she gets the house, the kids and the service records."
Tom: Oh, they go for everything. Trust me.
Ray: Unfortunately, your car IS what we affectionately refer to in the shop as a "motor wrecker."
Tom: The technical term is "interference engine," because the valves open so far into the cylinders (they "interfere" in the piston space) that if the valve timing isn't perfect, the valves can be struck by a piston.
Ray: The "interference" design actually increases the engine's efficiency, because the wider the valves open, the more "stuff" you can get in and out of the cylinders. But when the timing belt breaks on an interference engine, the pistons and valves can collide, and then it's "bye-bye valves."
Tom: By the way, most Hondas and Nissans use interference engines. Some other cars do, too, so check with your dealer about your specific year and model.
Ray: Since you have an interference engine, Jeff, unless you can verify that the belt was changed within the past 60,000 miles, you'd be wise to go ahead and change it now. And the easiest way to find the date of the last timing-belt change is to call your ex-wife and ask her to look it up for you.
Tom: If you'd rather sit on a hot fork than do that (hey, I've been there), you can try asking the garage where you take the car for service. It's possible that it will have a record of when you last changed the belt.
Ray: But better safe than sorry here, Jeff. This is probably not the time to be adding a car payment to the monthly bills for alimony, child support and hair plugs. Good luck.
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I drive 40 miles to work 40 miles home as long as its cold never see the oil light come on. but after 35 miles of highway driving @ 55mph I cross the mississippi river bridge and hit the light BAM soon as the RPM's hit 1000 or lower oil light comes on tell I hit the gas. I had the oil changed 1194 miles ago. no prob tell now. I check oil level today before i left for work after sitting all night 1/2 qt low. So i topped it of with fingers crossed... hit the light no luck. first thought was oil sending unit but after reading some of your posts I'm not so sure anymore. :confuse: Did any of you ever get a definite answer as to what the problem was?
I just picked the car up about a months ago for 2400 fully loaded in good shape minus the front end marks and headlight brackets being broke had A/C replaced on it and a head job done recently @ 140,000 I got it at 150,012. great car but trying not to dump alot of money in it right off the bat B4 i decide if i got a :lemon: any advice would be great! and THANX in advance!!!!
In my case, the oil light would only come on once the rpms dropped to around 500 rpm. And it would only do that when idling, stopped at a traffic light. Oddly, if I put it into neutral and revved the engine ever so slightly the problem would go away. That made me think it was a legitimate oil pressure problem.
thanx for the words of wisdom also
Anyway, I did a little digging in some of the old forums here, and found some of the dialog from when I had my problem back in 2003. Here's what my particular TSB involved...
NUMBER: 08-36-99
GROUP: Electrical
DATE: Oct. 15, 1999
SUBJECT:
Engine Oil Pressure Light Flicker
OVERVIEW:
This bulletin involves adding a terminal/wire/vent to the oil pressure switch connector.
MODELS:
1998 - 1999 (LH) Concorde/Intrepid
NOTE :THIS BULLETIN APPLIES TO VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH A 2.7L ENGINE.
SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
With a hot engine the oil pressure light may be on or flicker on at idle.
DIAGNOSIS:
Verify engine oil pressure as described on page 9-21 of the 1999 Concorde/Intrepid/LHS/300M service manual (Publication No. 81-270-9140). If engine oil pressure is within specification perform the Repair Procedure.
PARTS REQUIRED:
1 05017800AA Wire Terminal/Vent
REPAIR PROCEDURE:
1. Raise vehicle on a suitable hoist.
2. Remove engine oil pressure switch connector from switch.
3. Remove sealing dart from the empty cavity at the rear of the connector.
4. Pull terminal locking ring outward from front (switch) side of connector to gain access to terminal locking tabs.
5. Install wire terminal/vent, p/n 05017800AA, in place of the removed sealing dart. Slide locking ring back into place.
6. Attach the connector back on the oil pressure switch.
7. Spot tape the wire/vent to follow the harness towards the top of the engine compartment.
Now, in looking at it, I just noticed that this particular TSB is intended for vehicles with the 2.7, so it might not apply to the 3.5. However, there might be a similar TSB for the 3.5.
If you post your problem on the Technical Service Bulletins forum at Edmunds (you can find it by typing in "Technical Service Bulletins" in the "search forums" box to the left), there may be someone there who could give you some better info.
In my case, I don't think any switches, sending units, etc got replaced; all they did was put in the vent thing to keep the wiring and such from getting hot enough to send a false reading.
Anyway, good luck! Hope your Intrepid lasts for a long, long time!
The dealership was impressed that I had the TSB number as well as the part number for the fix. They are going to see if DC will honor the repair for a six year old car. If not, a new sender,harness etc... installed will run about $140.
Thanks for your last post here. Might save me some $$.
New spark plugs, an alignment and some other stuff will put the bill up around $400. First time I have had to do anything except normal wear items on this car. Not bad for 6 years and almost 60000 mi.
The ES 2.7 was a bit different from the base 2.7, though. It had a dual intake runner and other minor mods that gave it a slight power boost. IIRC, hp only went from 200 to 202, and peak torque only went from 190 ft-lb to 195 ft-lb, but you still got more torque across the entire rpm band. And with the ES, you also got the Autostick standard.
I think 0-60 for the ES 2.7 was around 8.9 seconds, versus 9.5 for the regular 2.7. Edmunds tested a 2000 ES with the 3.2 and got 0-60 in 8.4 seconds. So the ES 2.7/autostick was enough of an improvement to split the difference between the base 2.7 and the ES 3.2.
In 2002, I believe it was, they dropped the variable intake 2.7 and the 3.2, and just made a slightly de-tuned 3.5 standard in the ES.
I just checked the KBB site, and it will let you spec out a 1999, 2000, or 2001 Intrepid ES with either a 2.7 or 3.2. But now for 1998, they only list the 3.2. And for 2002 they only list the 3.5.
Shows you what's in a name. It has not been trouble free, and has had two recalls.
I checked, in '98 and '99 the 3.2 L engine was standard on the ES, and the change to 2.7 happened in 2000, when the RT made its appearance. :shades:
Heck, looking back, I remember joking and saying that if he didn't buy it, I would have! Truthfully, I still like the Intrepid better, but that Regal was a great car for the price.
But if I could've gotten a 2 year old Intrepid with 38K miles on it for $9K back then, I'm sure not going to pay $9K for one with 65K miles on it that's going on 7 model years old!
In 1999 the Intrepid ES was the top of the line Intrepid and came only with 3.2L, ABS, and autostick, split rear seat, fog lamps, inside light package, 16" aluminum wheels and 225/60/16 tires. In 2000 the Intrepid RT came out with the 3.5L and the ES was relegated to a "dress up" package. The SE also came out around then with purely cosmetic options.
Thanks Fred, that's what I found out too. In 1999 there were only two models--base and ES.
That's exactly how mine is equipped, has Infinity sound and I ordered the power sunroof. Filled the tank last evening with regular at $2.67/gal that set me back $38. :surprise: :shades:
BTW, what does it mean "fit with red line"? Thanks.
Any advice would be really helpful. Thanks
You will also need a timing belt change if that has not been done yet.
If you can do this work yourself, it is definitely worth replacing the oil pump to see what condition the engine is in. As soon as you start paying other people, the bills start adding up very quickly.
What is a new used engine. One from a car with 86,000 mile that had an oil pump go out?
The thing is that I have until the end of may, when the registration on the car expires, to either fix this car or get a crappy car that might not last too long. I don't have 6 months of job history and I don't have any credit yet, so I don't think I can get a loan.
Anyway, thanks for your help.
thanks!
There is a note above the post box asking that people not post their email addresses and, in fact, we will remove posts which contain them.
For one thing, there are automated webcrawlers sucking up email addresses for malicious purposes and you don't want to open yourself up to that. For another, we are an online community and, as such, would like the conversations to take place here within the discussion so that it benefits all of our members.
If you want other community members to have access to your address, all you have to do is make it public in your profile. The webcrawlers can't get to it there.
Thanks!
As for finding a belt, I don't think the belt itself is that expensive. The only name I know is Gates (http://www.gates.com). The labor to put it in is where most of the cost will be, so don't bother trying to save a few bucks on the part itself. And with something this critical, I wouldn't advise skimping, anyway.
While they're in there, it would be a good idea to replace the crankshaft and camshaft seals, too.
I think the 2.2 was actually designed to be easy to work on, though. IIRC, the same guy who did the Mopar slant six and the smallblock V-8 designed the 2.2.
Once they're actually in there, the crankshaft and camshaft seals shouldn't add too much to the expense. It's just that it's better to replace them because if they start leaking, oil will get in to where the timing belt is and cause it to deteriorate more quickly.
A dealer has a 2000 R/T w/the 3.5L engine for $1,995. The catch? It has 208,000 miles. It has no added options. It only has cloth seats, Cassette/CD, standard 17" rims, and the AutoStick.
Body in nice condition (at least from website photos)
I was considering this as a second car for a "beater" car.
What do you all think?
Thanks!
- Alex
30 day warranty?
Probably sell for $1600 or so....bargain.
Also, in 2000 the Intrepid R/T WAS a pretty basic car, as it used the base interior, and not the nicer ES. I think it was 2002 that the R/T became more luxurious, and the SXT was introduced to be the muscular Intrepid for those on a bit of a budget.
Looks like I have the oil sending unit problem I have read so much about -- at least I hope that is all it is.
When the car gets hot on a hot day the oil light flickers at low RPMs -- it was at 700 RPMs, but now it is at 900-1000 RPMs.
I have read the posts about the TSB on this problem, but the TSB is from 1999, and I have not seen the year of cars that were having this problem. Is the TSB for all 2.7 L engines, or those built in 1999 and before?
Thanks for the help!
Jim
I went ahead and replaced the sending unit yesterday, but that did not solve the problem. I did not replace the wire though -- I am wondering if that is still applicable to 2002 models.
Jim