Hi, I am looking to replace my 2000 Avalon and want to see a Nav system in the Avalon. I live in so Calif but I have NEVER seen one of these cars on any of 5 dealers lots!
Is Toyota actually making an Avalon with the Nav or should I give up and jump to the ES? Ron
I have finally decided to buy an 2003 Avalon XL. Can anyone tell me what i should be paying before TTL in California (Northern California - near San Francisco Bay Area).
The prices range from 24000 to 28000 for the Avalon with LP option package.
I will be gratful if you choose to email the price i should pay at mathurro@yahoo.com
I used CarsDirect.com and Edmunds to established the invoice. You will also want to look at eandylee's post #2176 and add the $675 to Edmunds invoice vs. CarsDirect.com. You can also try a few different zip codes in Nothern California at CarsDirect to substantiate the better deals. Also try 30303 and 30501 in Georgia. They are usually on the lower side. Good Luck!
sparky53 ... The sunroof deflector came pre-packaged with the car so I guess I was lucky. I think it is well worth it if you go with the moonroof. Unfortunately I don't have any advice on how to speed up the process.
Eandylee thanks for the post. It makes me feel like I got a pretty good deal which looks like about $500 below invoice. Dealer told me that I got about 2% holdback discounted off their invoice. I know they held a little back and the math is close so I won't complain. Invoice stated $29,999 but they sold the car for $29.3K before TTL.
Wanted an Avalon but settled for the Camry XLE with VSC/side air package/ Can anyone tell me if any components are shared between the two. I also have the new 5 spd VVT-I engine. I heard that the engine was the same as the Avalon's.
Just returned today to Boston from a trip to Delaware in my wife's 2000 XLS. Return was almost all interstate running in traffic at 65 mph on cruise control except during traffic slow downs.
I filled up this morning leaving Delaware (87 octane regular Exxon) and then again when I got back to my neighborhood gas station.
365 miles 11.7 gallons -> 31.2 mpg calculated (which also was very close to the trip computer).
I live West of Boston and have decided on the '03 Av XLS (Silver Spruce or Desert Sand w/Ivory innards). Are there any opinion on whether or not the VSC is worth the extra dough??
Also, does anyone know what the soon-to-be-available '04 offers?? I did get some insight to the '05 if anyone wants it.
BTW: I chose the Av over the ES300, TL, and S80 for roominess.
I'm 47 and height challenged with lower lumbar problems, and a cranky right hip and knee. I currently drive a '97 Camry, and a '96 Odyssey. Both are fine cars. I'm looking to move the Odyssey as my brother needs a car. So the question I have is, has anybody ever asked whether folks like myself (lower lumbar problems, and a cranky right hip and knee) would have an easier time entering and exiting a sedan, or a vehicle that's higher off the ground?
Here's what I've noticed. I more easily enter the Camry, but exiting is a challenge given that it's low to the ground. Getting into the Odyssey is tough as it requires raising my right leg to a point of pain. However, exiting the Odyssey is wonderful. The reliability, and hip and shoulder room of the Avalon bring me back to Toyota. Plus the Acton Toyota dealership here in Mass is close by. I also need to consider what would be easier for my Mother to enter and exit, and then there's the safety aspect. AWD is not as important given I do not find myself north of Massachusetts with any regularity.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks so much. I'm sorry this turned out to be so long-winded.
1) Available April '04 2) New body style 3) Same 5-speed auto transmission as the current ES300 and Camry 4) titanium timing chain versus current timing belt 5) water channel on the sides of the windshield
Your number is within $2 of the 'Edmunds' Invoice. Edmunds also has market price for Boston and invoice + $200.
However, Edmunds is showing a $200 Toyota to Dealer incentive through 4/30 for the Avalon.
So you should be able to buy this car at Invoice.
If so figure your tax in Ma (5%?) and call the registry for the tag and registration fee.
Add those to invoice and call that your 'out the door price'.
They'll want a 'fee' for processing the paperwork and running to the registry. You have to decide what you think they pay the guy that takes 20 title forms a day to the registry and the folks that type the VIN and transaction costs into a computer that spits it out of a laser printer.
Maybe a $100, but not more.
Don't forget that they get 2% holdback on the Base MSRP of $30K - so they get $600 to take the car off the truck, prep it and keep it around until you buy it.
So $28K plus TTL might be a good OTD price to start with and GOOD LUCK.
Well, I have 3,000 mi. on my new XLS and am ready for the FIRST oil change! I read Message #2l69 by Travelerjb that he always uses fully synthetic Mobil One oil to break in - then after that, the non-synthetic type. Well, today I went to AutoZone to purchase oil - Mobil One, of course - and found out that they had several different types of quart cans. WHICH ONE SHOULD I USE? WHAT WEIGHT? I'm also curious about the term "dino oil" which Travelerjb drained right away, before the break-in oil. Would appreciate any input, either here or at my e-mail address: leewach@alliancelink.com
First of all let's get ONE thing straight. There is NO break in oil in the Avalon's, just the regular standard 5W-30.....nothing special. NOW what I said was than when I get my new cars I immediately drop the regular (dino) oil and NEVER....I repeat NEVER use anything BUT fully synthetic oil (Mobil One SynTech brand type 5W-30 Weight) which is the weight that is factory recommended. The list of advantages is just too long to go into here, but I can assure you it's enough to even get the strongest disbeliever to change over to it. Just for starters not only does your engine run cleaner and without building up deposits, but your engine seals will NOT shrink as they naturally tend to do using regular oil. The engine will even run noticabilly smoother and quieter (if that's possible LOL). The amount of reduction of shear friction alone is worth it. I couldn't imagine doing it any other way. I consider the use of regular just plain foolhearty after one becomes familiar with the Mobil One story.........
I usually avoid the subjective stuff. Which Gas? Which oil? Which air freshener? But, here it is:
IMPORTANT-The following is just an opinion! It is based on my most recent four vehicles. When I let them go, they had 200k-on a Toyota, 255k-on a Honda/Acura, 245k-on a Toyota, and 135k on my current Toyo my Avy. All had 6-cylinder engines, and ALL left me running like a new car. I used conventional, Synthetic and even tried blends. IMO, the key was appropriate maintenance intervals.
There are a LOT of factors when choosing oils and intervals. NO answer is right for everyone. The key is not necessarily which oil, but proper interval and maintenance. See AAA’s site. There is a great summary there.
If you have access to this forum, you have access to the web. Research synthetic oils. A few minutes with a few web sites will explain the differences.
Here’s some info and, of course, some opinion- Fundementally: Conventional oil. Cheaper! Requires a change more often. Synth’s. Expensive! Requires fewer changes.
IMO, I think travelerjb is leading you down the right path Why synth’s?? The man-made synth’s are a more durable molecular strand than the natural carbon based oils. (Remember, TWINKY’s, with man-made preservatives, can sit on a shelf for fifty years. LOL) I NOW stick to synth’s. Long-term test results have shown they have superior characteristics. However, 3,000 mile changes are a thing of the past. I go 5,000 to 7,500 on pure synth. Even this can be too soon. I use Amsoil. Mobil 1 is great too. Try Mobil 1 synth tranny juice it’s awesome.
FINALLY, sludge! SLUDGE???? What kind of oil are you guys with sludge using??? Seriously. I would love to know. Is it Valvoline??? ie) The convenience of “Valvoline 10-minute oil change” I looked at The Desert Research Institute’s study, which put Amsoil, Mobil 1 and Spectro as showing “significant differences” (better) from other oils tested. This is where I found that all grades of Valvoline had the highest % ash after burning. Ash, which contributes to sludge! A copy of this report is on some sites that sell Amsoil. NOTE: This ash content is still within mfg recommendations. Also, I do NOT know how to interpret the "ash" figures. –nomad-
This sounds like something that looks good on paper. Unfortuneately, skid control only seems to come with a sun roof, thus, and additional $1300. Seems like alot of extra dough to me.
and a ton of research before I took delivery of my 03 Avalon XLS last week. In fact I had 2 and a half months to do it. LOL. What I found was there is a large body of evidence that due to the greatly increased and finer tolerances with which the engines are built today, the greatest wear seems to come in the first 100 miles. This struck me as astounding at first, but then when I thought about it indeed it made more sense. That is why I changed my oil after only 80 miles since I'm embarking on a 1000 round trip up to Idaho, Oregon, Washington, Montana and than back home to Salt Lake this next week. I frankly don't mind the $24 it costs for the Mobil One as I know it will pay dividends in longevity if I start it out right. That was my whole point to begin with. This way it will "polish" the rings into the piston walls and not cause the tolerances to change as much as they might otherwise would. Also less oil is wasted in the long run, as well as better gas mileage. The good seal conditions after high mileage is a huge bonus I feel as well. There are an awful few folks that won't admit that right after a change from dino oil to Mobil One fully synthetic that the motor doesn't run notably smoother and quieter with greater pep and a gas mileage boost........
WOW! I can't answer that. But, maybe this will help your decision. A new engine needs to "break-in" We've all heard that. This is "seating" the rings in their piston/cylinder. Proper seating prevents "blow-by". Blow-by is heated gas getting out of the combustion chamber...and into your oil...this contributes to dirty oil and possibly "sludge". The "seating" is a result of friction between the ring and cylinder wall. Therefore, some mfg's recommend AGAINST synthetics during the "break-in". Personally, I have never switched right out of the gate. This is not due to ideology but, FAITH, that the mfg has started me with an appropriate product for break-in. ...flip a coin, I guess. Hope this helped a little -nomad-
Just picked up 2003 Avalon XLS. one problem? the trip computer reset button will reset all functions of the trip computer except the average MPG. The manual says it should reset on engine restart or reset button. Havent filled gas tank yet to see if that resets it.
First if I'm not mistaken the "avg fuel MPG only resets when you "refuel" and not by pushing the reset buttons. As for the break-in thing, I've been told by many good automotive engineering sources for years that it's a bunch of bull to begin with in todays close tolerance manufacturing. Secondly what the Mobil One is offering is less friction, (not NO friction) and allows the tolerances to be MAINTAINED and not INCREASED and thereby allowing for a tighter fit with NO blowby which in turn maintains cleaner oil, less deposit potential AND better HP in the long run due to maintaining proper engine operation. Rings remain smooth and clean without pitting and loss of seal. And as I already mentioned, less potential for future oil leaks due to shrinking seals (a well known side effect of using dino oil over time). If you just talk to the typical factory tech in a dealer you won't hear it this way, because they often are anything BUT on the cutting edge of knowledge of the manufacturing process and such. Hey, as I said, it's YOUR money. I just know where I'm spending mine. I've proven over time with no less than 5 new vehicles ALL broken in this way from day one, that it is fact and not conjecture. NONE (as in NOT one) of the cars had leakey seals, burned ANY oil or had motor issues. I STILL see a 1981 VW Jetta my wife and I bought the week we were to be married in 1981, on the road locally, and it still runs great with NO problems to the new owner.........
I do not own an Avalon, but occasionally monitor this discussion, but I could not help but post a little about synthetic vs conventional oil.
First, rubber seals do not shrink upon contact with conventional or synthetic oil. If anything, they swell, which could be good or bad, however all automakers will build oil seals these days compatible with either oil.
Secondly, though synthetic oils definitely have some advantages-primarily a flatter viscosity vs temperature curve, one should not overlook that all oil and filters becomes contaminated with potentially harmful products of combustion as the miles pile up. Initially, synthetics were marketed as a way of extending your oil change interval, but now that is not so much the case, because all oil has to carry these contaminants. It is impossible to eliminate blow by no matter what oil or engine you have, that is why all engines incorporate PCV systems (positive crank case ventilation systems)
Given the extreme price difference, I use conventional motor oil, and change frequently-no more than 3k miles. Since I change oil myself and watch for sales, I can do an oil and filter change for less than $9-$10.
If you want to spend the extra money for synthetic oil, go ahead, but conventional oil changed often with the filter in my opinion is a valid approach.
Here's an excerpt from the NADA Appraisal Guide website on Avalon's skid control.
"We saved the most exotic technology for last: Vehicle Skid Control (VSC). It's a Lexus hand-me-down, remaining innovative as it moves along from $50,000 cars to $30,000 cars. It's only available on the XLS, but for only $650, it's a real deal. Get it.
Vehicle Skid Control keeps you from sliding off the road, by automatically controlling any discrepancy between where you are steering and where the vehicle is heading. Electronic sensors measure four forces to detect a slide, which may be either at the front or rear wheels. Using throttle intervention or applying individual wheel braking, VSC makes the appropriate adjustment in grip. For example, if your tail is sliding out to the left on a right-hand turn, VSC will cut the throttle and apply the brakes to the left-side wheels. It won't take over the steering wheel, but with the other corrections it won't need to.
We found a hard-packed logging road, vacant on our rainy Sunday, and slick from oil as well as water. Coming into a sharp curve with good visibility and no ditch, we charged at spinout speed: all gas, no brakes. Because the Avalon is front-wheel drive, understeer was our obstacle in this slow turn. We heard the VSC warning ding that says, "Whoa Bucko!" Simultaneously the orange traction-control light came on, and we felt the car magically bite and come back into position. VSC had cut the throttle and hit the ABS brakes on all but the outside rear wheel. The car maneuvered safely around the corner with relatively little drama, an undeserved reward for our foolhardy behavior."
I'm no expert, but I can speak from personal experience with my Avalon. After the first 3,000 miles I changed to Mobil 1 synthetic oil and noticed a significant difference. The Avalon's engine seemed to run smoother and be more responsive. Badgerfan touched on one of the main reasons I use synthetic, higher temperature curve. If a sludge problem does indeed exist, I want a more temperature tolerant oil in my Avalon, just for extra insurance. My Toyota dealer doesn't offer Synthetic oil, so I buy it and he only charges my for a filter and labor, my total comes out to $40. An extra $15 for peace of mind is worth it to me.
Yep, that's pretty much what it costs here also. At $3.69 a quart for the Mobil One 5w-30 for 5 quarts is about $20 + the $16.00 for labor and the Toyota Filter for my new Avy. Worth every penny and more. Indeed my experiences have mirrored your's. The smooth running and increase in gas mileage is pretty standard for a Mobil One Synthetic oil change experience. My dealer DOES carry fully synthetic oil, but it's a Shell/Havoline product, which quite frankly I do not have the confidence in as the Mobil One. So like you I just pick up a box of the oil and bring it in handing it to the attendant at the dealers "quicklube" facility. Even they agree it makes a difference, whether I buy it from them or not. They are also very high on the K&N air filters from a conversation I had with them, but unfortunately they don't carry them. Something else to consider I suppose..........
Anyone have the Nav system? If so, how well do you like it. It appears the controls are down next to the gear selector. Is this convenient? How easy is the screen to read? 2 color or full color? Voice activated or prompted?
Reading all the positive posts on synth oil I may change at my next oil change especially since I have one of the potential sludge engines per the extended waranty letter from toyota. I now have 23000 miles on the avalon . Any problems changing to syn. oil at that mileage? Also my dealer uses castrol synth. oil which I have not read any reports on.
I am seriously considering buying a 2000 Avalon XLS with everything (excep Nav, which I don't think was an option in 2000). 46K miles, very good condition as far as I can tell, $21,595 from a Toyota dealer. They also offered a 4 yr, up to 100K mile bumper-to-bumper warantee extension for $995.
First Issue: Should I be concerned about the sludge problem I have read so much about? Is there any way for me to check for signs of 'sludging'? Will the 8 year warantee be honored for a second owner? According to the carfax, the car was privately owned by one owner up till now.
Second Issue: Windshield glare. Should I be concerned about this. I have not driven the car at night. Are there any remedies?
Third Issue: Is this a decent price for this car? I live in the Boston area if it makes any difference.
As praiseworthy as the Avalon is, the price is much too high for such a high mileage car. At almost $23K you are better off buying new.
If your budget is tight, on a monthly basis it might cost you more since a three-year used car would be financed over 36 months rather than the usual 60 months for a new car.
Here is an example: suppose you were to buy the used car with a down payment of $2,500 and finance the remaining $20,000 at 6% financing for 36 months, the monthly payment would be about $608.
On the other hand, this same $608 monthly payment could buy you a brand new XLS for $32,226 at 4.99% for 60 months. As you can see unless you are paying cash there is no financial advantage to buying a used car.
You should be able to buy a new Avalon in the Boston area for invoice + $200 or about $30,000. They are not a hot property. Try Boch or Herb Chambers.
Make and appointment via the net and go to the store. They won't let you leave without a car at your price.
Do NOT pay for anything else they want to add: no VIN etching - it's already inscribed on most major components of the car by Federal law, no fabric protection, etc. Both dealers are online to the registry so they don't even have to send someone to do the titled and regs. It should be cheap too. Have financing in hand and ask them to beat it.
Total out the door price should be 30,000 plus sales tax plus $100 title and plates or about 31600.
Payment ought to be $550 at 5% for 60 mons. with $2500 down.
Thanks for the input. I would love to get a new Avalon, but I figure it will cost me almost $9000 more in the first year alone (Base Cost + Sales Tax + Excise Tax (Yearly) + Insurance (Yearly)).
Yes, if I were going to finance, then the monthly cost would be about the same but the 5 year loan is also obviously 2 years longer. Also, we will most likely pay cash (if we buy used).
That being said, maybe what they are asking for this particular car is too much. I didn't know about Boch Toyota as I am on the North Shore, but it looks like they might offer much better deals on used cars. They have a couple Avalons with lower mileage and similarly equipped and they list their cost as under $20K. I am going to contact them first thing tomorrow morning and see what they still have in stock (I find that the internet inventory on these things tends to be a day or two out of date in most cases). Any feedback on how much above cost to offer on a used car?
So I guess my original questions still stand. Should I be worried about 'sludge'? How bad is the glare?
Thanks again for the feedback. If things work out with Boch, you guys probably saved me between $2K and $3K.
Dealership costs on 'used cars' are totally unfathomable. They might say that their cost is 20K, but it's not 'public' like the invoice costs on new cars. It all depends on how a dealership keeps score internally for car costs.
If they take a car as a trade, then their costs may or may not be the trade-in value depending on the deal between the used car manager and new car manager.
The vehicle could have been bought at an auction. There could be transport costs associated with it and so on...
Then they have their prep costs. For a regular used car, that could be a road test, fixing some stuff, wash, wax and detailing - a few hundred bucks. For a Certified Pre-Owned Avalon, then there's a pretty rigorous checklist and they probably spend between $500 and $1000 to bring it up to the CPO standard.
The key to buying a used car is getting a Car Fax on it and checking the service history. Make sure the Maintenance record in the vehicle is current and shows ALL services done with a dealer stamp and date.
Oil Gel -
I have a letter from Toyota that says basically the car is covered for 8 years and unlimited mileage. My only obligation is to maintain it properly. I think that means being able to show the dealer stamps and maintenance records like oil changes.
I wouldn't by any Toyota V6 powered vehicle that falls under this policy without the maintenance records noted above.
Glare -
I think you have to decide for yourself.
My wife is 5'2" and I am 5' 11". Neither of us have ever noticed any glare. Or if we did it wasn't bothersome.
My first ever experience with VSC was at an Avalon "ride and drive" and I was stunned. I couldn't force the thing out of control in a road course with pylons. I tried to get into a hard sideways skid but the VSC took over and kept me driving in the direction I was pointed. I would certainly buy it.
Neither the Camry or Avalon made the top three in the Initial Quality Survey by JD Power in the entry mid-size, premium-mid size or full-size car categories.
They were soundly trounced by GM and Ford in every category. The only Asian branded car to scratch was the Hyundai Sonata, finishing second in the Entry Category behind the Chevy Malibu. GM's improvement is just astounding!
Toyota's overall quality level fell despite no new model introductions. This is due to the fact that they can't build as good a car here in the U.S. as they used to.
All of us that have believe that Toyota was truly committed to quality car production here in the U.S. see that our beliefs were not well-founded.
They continue to do well with their Lexus line which took almost every premium car category.
Anyone out there that knows anything about the redisigned 2005 Avalon? Do you think they will offer AWD along with greater hp than the current 210hp. I think they will have to do the latter because the 2004 Nissan Maxima now touts a 265hp engine. thanks, xlegend
A dozen or so posts ago, some here were saying that Toyota has not made a decision to update the Avalon and the model may be cut. If it stays, I'd prefer a 5-speed auto, some more HP but not standard AWD. Keep that an option.
I have a theory about Toyota's slipping quality. Toyota has become a victim of its own success and many people who buy Toyota equate Lexus's quality with Toyota, and rightly so since it is the same company.
Toyota customers have become so finicky and exacting that I believe they report the slightest of annoyances as problems that in years past would be considered normal.
Since all Avalons are assembled in the US, I wonder if the Japanese version (the Pronard) has the same quality issues. I wonder if there are any statistics on that and would they share that information. Still, I believe consumers have become so demanding that they expect Lexus quality at a Toyota price.
Let's remember it's initial quality- usually some annoying assembly/finishing problems.
Very annoying and can degrade the initial ownership experience but not the whole picture and not an indicator of long term function and durability.
In 1980, the wife and I bought a GM "x" car that appeared to be assembled by drunks and a Honda Civic that was "perfect". The X gave me a low cost 100k, the Civic needed CV joints, paint and rings an was gone by '85(50k).
My 2000 Lincoln LS, had great initial quality, but has developed annoying elctrical gremlins and had a power window quit in the down position on the hottest day of the year.
I've got the Avalon replacement on order (10 weeks and counting by the way)and look forward to making a long term comparison.
I had my first oil change at 3,000 mi. and used Mobil 1 Synthetic 5W-30. That evening, I was on the Internet & ran across the AMSOIL website. They say that their test results outperform Mobil 1. I haven't heard of AMSOIL before - has anyone out there had any experience with it? I'm just curious - their website really sold the product!
Another question - the invoice I received after my oil change stated "Chassis lube IF NECESSARY". I am wondering if they even did it, and if not, why not? For the last l4 years with my old car, I had oil change and lube at the same time, every 3,000 miles.
I've been enjoying this TownHall for a long time now - and appreciate the fact that every time I have a problem or question, someone out there cares enough to answer. THANKS !!
Yeah, I am using Amsoil now, based on my mechanics recommendation. He uses primarily Mobil 1 but, he said the Amsoil is "supposed to be" even better. Neither of us has long term experience with it but, the car is running great and getting the same mileage.
My car runs great on either. No dramatic difference to speak of. I can tell you the Mobil 1 synth tranny fluid is amazing. The car's tranny is noticeably smoother.
FYI: We are going to put Amsoil in a 7m-ge that we are almost done rebuilding. We talk like we will tear it open after 25, or so, thousand miles, to check????? ...ask me in a year! -nomad-
Your fleet manager can order all he wants. Toyota produces to a build plan here in the U.S.
The usual way to get a specific color, option package set, seats, etc. is for a dealership or regional TMS contact for the leasing compnay to find one inbound to your area and have the dealer that the lease company buys through 'swap' it for one destined for them.
If there's no sign of it a) The leasing company doesn't have the contacts to get visibiity to it b) There aren't any inbound to your area.
Bigger dealerships can call around and see if the car is in inventory somewhere.
The dealerships scattered around in the Southeastern Toyota Distribution zone currently have 27 White XL Bucket Avalons in Stock.
I've been dealing with this Leasing Co through my employer for 15 yrs now. Once they've signed the papers on the car, they don't care if it ever arrives.
My loaded '03 XL just passed 16k and is perfect so far. No trips to the dealer for repairs. Just change the oil and rotate the tires. Gas mileage has gone up slightly, as some postings have said it would, now about 28 mpg, fully loaded, on the interstate. Quality gets no better under $30k. Drive one and enjoy...
Just got back from my first voyage with my new 03 XLS. It performed flawlessly through just about every environment you could throw at it. I saw heavy downpours, sleet, snow, hail, high winds, mountain pass driving and straight high speed interstate driving. The back support is astounding as I have a bad one to be sure. The JBL sound system will spoil even the most hardened audiophile. I do feel a bit pampered by the auto rain sensing wipers though. I found it quite entertaining to watch them consistently wipe when needed and automatically increase their wiping speed when called for in a downpour. I did happen to change over to full Mobil One synthetic before the trip (at 80 miles) and found an average mpg of 31 @80mph average speed. I can live with that to be sure. It is also surprising just how fast you can pass someone at 70mph if needed by just putting your foot down and BAM......you're past the car in front of you. A very reassuring feeling......
Am looking forward then to my first long trip in the Avalon, ... If anyone feels that the factory tire width on the Avalon is too narrow, like I do, keep in mind that every car manufacturer has to care about fuel economy when they put the tires on the car. The reason Toyota has 205/60 R16 tires on the Avalon is because this is the best compromise between ride quality, handling and fuel economy. You can put 215, 225 or even 245 tires on Avalon along with bigger sized wheels (17 or 18 inch). In this case, your gas mileage will be 15-25% lower, but 'handling' will improve and the car will look 'sharp' too. At the same time 'ride quality' won't be like the one you have and your 'acceleration times' (0 to 60 or 50-70) will drop too. Travellerjb's formula for getting 31 mpg is ideal, probably the combination of the factory Michelin's along with the choice for using Mobil 1 synthetic engine oil.... 31 mpg at 80 mph is excellent,...
Since the Avalon ride quality is excellent with the factory tires this is the best way to go. As far as replacing them in the future(once the MXV's are done- in about 30K -since its an H rated tire), as an alternative to the Michelin's, is to use Yokohama AVS ES. They are less expensive , they look great and they are of the highest quality.
I've heard some good things about those Yokohama's. The TireRack has great reviews and customer feedback on most tires out there and indeed there have been plenty of good things said about them. I've had a love affair with the Dunlop SP Sport 5000 H rated tires on the last 2 cars I driven over the last 8 years. They stick like glue, aren't half bad in light snow and in a rain act like they are on dry ground. They handle much better than most tires out there also. What has surprised me however is the way these stock MXV4 + tires have done on my Avy XLS so far. In downpours, light snow, hail storms and general ride, quiet and handling they have been darn good indeed. I never lost traction in a hail storm in Eastern Washington and Montana mountains last week, and that really surprised me after hearing they weren't good in the wet. They ARE! I'll just have to see how they last and in all likelihood will try the Dunlop's on this car. That particular model has NOT suffered from the typically fast wear characteristics of some other Dunlop models. I certainly wouldn't write off the Yokohamas either as long as they are also a "quiet" riding tire as well.......
I brought my 1996 Avalon in for 115k mile service last week and for Toyota service to look at the Check Engine Light.
Service later called me, all is fine and the Check Engine light refers to the Purge Valve and the Charcoal Canister needs to be replace and the estimated cost would be 615 dollars. I ask why so much, this seems out of line and the dealership in LA simple said its their standard price for doing such work.
I also asked if some of these items are covered under a warranty by Toyota, of course not to the service mans knowledge.
All help is appreciated in this matter, I'm now looking at an independent mechanic who will use Toyota parts and charge me less than half the price for such work.
Does anyone have any information regarding a possibly larger engine on the 2004 Avalon; for example, the 3.3 liter - 225 hp engine that now runs both the new Solara and Lexus RX330, both Toyota products which had the same 3.0 V6 that the Avalon currently has? Could it be that the engine was upgraded on these two models because both models have have been redesigned? Also, what are the chances that Toyota dresses the 2004 Avalons with meatier tires?
Good questions. Hope someone knows. Actually, I was hoping they would put the Tundra 8-Cyl in the Avalon. I almost bought one in 2001, but the lack of power was the factor that turned me to the Infiniti.
The '04 Avalon will be getting a larger powerplant than the current '03 model has. It's in print already if you look for it in one of the auto mags. It will get the 3.3 liter (possibly from the 04 Sienna, new Solara or the RX330) with a tad more horsepower & torque: 3.3-liter 24-valve DOHC V6 with VVT-i
The '03 Avalon engine is going into the 2003 1/2 & 2004 V6 Camry. Actually Toyota.com shows the Avalon powerplant in the V6 Camrys already, but your dealer may not have one on the lot as of yet. Toyota is shifting the engines around a bit.
For me the '03 has plenty of power , but if you wait for the '04 you've even have more.
My entry #2221 tells the story on the tire size. However I do not live in CA, where big fat tires are the norm, plus I really like the factory Michelin MXV4s for now.
Comments
Is Toyota actually making an Avalon with the Nav or should I give up and jump to the ES?
Ron
Can anyone tell me what i should be paying before TTL in California (Northern California - near San Francisco Bay Area).
The prices range from 24000 to 28000 for the Avalon with LP option package.
I will be gratful if you choose to email the price i should pay at mathurro@yahoo.com
Sincerely thanking you in advance.
sparky53 ... The sunroof deflector came pre-packaged with the car so I guess I was lucky. I think it is well worth it if you go with the moonroof. Unfortunately I don't have any advice on how to speed up the process.
Eandylee thanks for the post. It makes me feel like I got a pretty good deal which looks like about $500 below invoice. Dealer told me that I got about 2% holdback discounted off their invoice. I know they held a little back and the math is close so I won't complain. Invoice stated $29,999 but they sold the car for $29.3K before TTL.
I filled up this morning leaving Delaware (87 octane regular Exxon) and then again when I got back to my neighborhood gas station.
365 miles 11.7 gallons -> 31.2 mpg calculated (which also was very close to the trip computer).
Amazing!
Also, does anyone know what the soon-to-be-available '04 offers?? I did get some insight to the '05 if anyone wants it.
BTW: I chose the Av over the ES300, TL, and S80 for roominess.
Thanks.
Here's what I've noticed. I more easily enter the Camry, but exiting is a challenge given that it's low to the ground. Getting into the Odyssey is tough as it requires raising my right leg to a point of pain. However, exiting the Odyssey is wonderful. The reliability, and hip and shoulder room of the Avalon bring me back to Toyota. Plus the Acton Toyota dealership here in Mass is close by. I also need to consider what would be easier for my Mother to enter and exit, and then there's the safety aspect. AWD is not as important given I do not find myself north of Massachusetts with any regularity.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks so much. I'm sorry this turned out to be so long-winded.
Thanks.
2) New body style
3) Same 5-speed auto transmission as the current ES300 and Camry
4) titanium timing chain versus current timing belt
5) water channel on the sides of the windshield
Any one know how to confirm this, or do I just go with Edmund's?
Thanks.
However, Edmunds is showing a $200 Toyota to Dealer incentive through 4/30 for the Avalon.
So you should be able to buy this car at Invoice.
If so figure your tax in Ma (5%?) and call the registry for the tag and registration fee.
Add those to invoice and call that your 'out the door price'.
They'll want a 'fee' for processing the paperwork and running to the registry. You have to decide what you think they pay the guy that takes 20 title forms a day to the registry and the folks that type the VIN and transaction costs into a computer that spits it out of a laser printer.
Maybe a $100, but not more.
Don't forget that they get 2% holdback on the Base MSRP of $30K - so they get $600 to take the car off the truck, prep it and keep it around until you buy it.
So $28K plus TTL might be a good OTD price to start with and GOOD LUCK.
Would appreciate any input, either here or at my e-mail address: leewach@alliancelink.com
IMPORTANT-The following is just an opinion! It is based on my most recent four vehicles. When I let them go, they had 200k-on a Toyota, 255k-on a Honda/Acura, 245k-on a Toyota, and 135k on my current Toyo my Avy. All had 6-cylinder engines, and ALL left me running like a new car. I used conventional, Synthetic and even tried blends. IMO, the key was appropriate maintenance intervals.
There are a LOT of factors when choosing oils and intervals. NO answer is right for everyone. The key is not necessarily which oil, but proper interval and maintenance. See AAA’s site. There is a great summary there.
If you have access to this forum, you have access to the web. Research synthetic oils. A few minutes with a few web sites will explain the differences.
Here’s some info and, of course, some opinion-
Fundementally:
Conventional oil. Cheaper! Requires a change more often.
Synth’s. Expensive! Requires fewer changes.
IMO, I think travelerjb is leading you down the right path
Why synth’s?? The man-made synth’s are a more durable molecular strand than the natural carbon based oils. (Remember, TWINKY’s, with man-made preservatives, can sit on a shelf for fifty years. LOL) I NOW stick to synth’s. Long-term test results have shown they have superior characteristics. However, 3,000 mile changes are a thing of the past. I go 5,000 to 7,500 on pure synth. Even this can be too soon. I use Amsoil. Mobil 1 is great too. Try Mobil 1 synth tranny juice it’s awesome.
FINALLY, sludge!
SLUDGE???? What kind of oil are you guys with sludge using??? Seriously. I would love to know. Is it Valvoline??? ie) The convenience of “Valvoline 10-minute oil change” I looked at The Desert Research Institute’s study, which put Amsoil, Mobil 1 and Spectro as showing “significant differences” (better) from other oils tested. This is where I found that all grades of Valvoline had the highest % ash after burning. Ash, which contributes to sludge! A copy of this report is on some sites that sell Amsoil. NOTE: This ash content is still within mfg recommendations. Also, I do NOT know how to interpret the "ash" figures. –nomad-
Any help with this would be appreciated.
Thanks.
the trip computer reset button will reset all functions of the trip computer except the average MPG. The manual says it should reset on engine restart or reset button. Havent filled gas tank yet to see if that resets it.
First, rubber seals do not shrink upon contact with conventional or synthetic oil. If anything, they swell, which could be good or bad, however all automakers will build oil seals these days compatible with either oil.
Secondly, though synthetic oils definitely have some advantages-primarily a flatter viscosity vs temperature curve, one should not overlook that all oil and filters becomes contaminated with potentially harmful products of combustion as the miles pile up. Initially, synthetics were marketed as a way of extending your oil change interval, but now that is not so much the case, because all oil has to carry these contaminants. It is impossible to eliminate blow by no matter what oil or engine you have, that is why all engines incorporate PCV systems (positive crank case ventilation systems)
Given the extreme price difference, I use conventional motor oil, and change frequently-no more than 3k miles. Since I change oil myself and watch for sales, I can do an oil and filter change for less than $9-$10.
If you want to spend the extra money for synthetic oil, go ahead, but conventional oil changed often with the filter in my opinion is a valid approach.
"We saved the most exotic technology for last: Vehicle Skid Control (VSC). It's a Lexus hand-me-down, remaining innovative as it moves along from $50,000 cars to $30,000 cars. It's only available on the XLS, but for only $650, it's a real deal. Get it.
Vehicle Skid Control keeps you from sliding off the road, by automatically controlling any discrepancy between where you are steering and where the vehicle is heading. Electronic sensors measure four forces to detect a slide, which may be either at the front or rear wheels. Using throttle intervention or applying individual wheel braking, VSC makes the appropriate adjustment in grip. For example, if your tail is sliding out to the left on a right-hand turn, VSC will cut the throttle and apply the brakes to the left-side wheels. It won't take over the steering wheel, but with the other corrections it won't need to.
We found a hard-packed logging road, vacant on our rainy Sunday, and slick from oil as well as water. Coming into a sharp curve with good visibility and no ditch, we charged at spinout speed: all gas, no brakes. Because the Avalon is front-wheel drive, understeer was our obstacle in this slow turn. We heard the VSC warning ding that says, "Whoa Bucko!" Simultaneously the orange traction-control light came on, and we felt the car magically bite and come back into position. VSC had cut the throttle and hit the ABS brakes on all but the outside rear wheel. The car maneuvered safely around the corner with relatively little drama, an undeserved reward for our foolhardy behavior."
http://www.nadaguides.com/content/reviews_review3.asp?UserID=064C- 15A1DB7&DID=37742&ReviewId=1351&category=Luxury&M- ake=&wSec=8&wPg=1212
Thanks
Ron
I am seriously considering buying a 2000 Avalon XLS with everything (excep Nav, which I don't think was an option in 2000). 46K miles, very good condition as far as I can tell, $21,595 from a Toyota dealer. They also offered a 4 yr, up to 100K mile bumper-to-bumper warantee extension for $995.
First Issue: Should I be concerned about the sludge problem I have read so much about? Is there any way for me to check for signs of 'sludging'? Will the 8 year warantee be honored for a second owner? According to the carfax, the car was privately owned by one owner up till now.
Second Issue: Windshield glare. Should I be concerned about this. I have not driven the car at night. Are there any remedies?
Third Issue: Is this a decent price for this car? I live in the Boston area if it makes any difference.
Any and all advice is appreciated.
Chris
If your budget is tight, on a monthly basis it might cost you more since a three-year used car would be financed over 36 months rather than the usual 60 months for a new car.
Here is an example: suppose you were to buy the used car with a down payment of $2,500 and finance the remaining $20,000 at 6% financing for 36 months, the monthly payment would be about $608.
On the other hand, this same $608 monthly payment could buy you a brand new XLS for $32,226 at 4.99% for 60 months. As you can see unless you are paying cash there is no financial advantage to buying a used car.
Make and appointment via the net and go to the store. They won't let you leave without a car at your price.
Do NOT pay for anything else they want to add: no VIN etching - it's already inscribed on most major components of the car by Federal law, no fabric protection, etc. Both dealers are online to the registry so they don't even have to send someone to do the titled and regs. It should be cheap too. Have financing in hand and ask them to beat it.
Total out the door price should be 30,000 plus sales tax plus $100 title and plates or about 31600.
Payment ought to be $550 at 5% for 60 mons. with $2500 down.
Good luck!
Thanks for the input. I would love to get a new Avalon, but I figure it will cost me almost $9000 more in the first year alone (Base Cost + Sales Tax + Excise Tax (Yearly) + Insurance (Yearly)).
Yes, if I were going to finance, then the monthly cost would be about the same but the 5 year loan is also obviously 2 years longer. Also, we will most likely pay cash (if we buy used).
That being said, maybe what they are asking for this particular car is too much. I didn't know about Boch Toyota as I am on the North Shore, but it looks like they might offer much better deals on used cars. They have a couple Avalons with lower mileage and similarly equipped and they list their cost as under $20K. I am going to contact them first thing tomorrow morning and see what they still have in stock (I find that the internet inventory on these things tends to be a day or two out of date in most cases). Any feedback on how much above cost to offer on a used car?
So I guess my original questions still stand. Should I be worried about 'sludge'? How bad is the glare?
Thanks again for the feedback. If things work out with Boch, you guys probably saved me between $2K and $3K.
Chris
Dealership costs on 'used cars' are totally unfathomable. They might say that their cost is 20K, but it's not 'public' like the invoice costs on new cars. It all depends on how a dealership keeps score internally for car costs.
If they take a car as a trade, then their costs may or may not be the trade-in value depending on the deal between the used car manager and new car manager.
The vehicle could have been bought at an auction. There could be transport costs associated with it and so on...
Then they have their prep costs. For a regular used car, that could be a road test, fixing some stuff, wash, wax and detailing - a few hundred bucks. For a Certified Pre-Owned Avalon, then there's a pretty rigorous checklist and they probably spend between $500 and $1000 to bring it up to the CPO standard.
The key to buying a used car is getting a Car Fax on it and checking the service history. Make sure the Maintenance record in the vehicle is current and shows ALL services done with a dealer stamp and date.
Oil Gel -
I have a letter from Toyota that says basically the car is covered for 8 years and unlimited mileage. My only obligation is to maintain it properly. I think that means being able to show the dealer stamps and maintenance records like oil changes.
I wouldn't by any Toyota V6 powered vehicle that falls under this policy without the maintenance records noted above.
Glare -
I think you have to decide for yourself.
My wife is 5'2" and I am 5' 11". Neither of us have ever noticed any glare. Or if we did it wasn't bothersome.
They were soundly trounced by GM and Ford in every category. The only Asian branded car to scratch was the Hyundai Sonata, finishing second in the Entry Category behind the Chevy Malibu. GM's improvement is just astounding!
Take a look:
http://www.jdpower.com/presspass/pr/images/2003028bfull.gif
Toyota's overall quality level fell despite no new model introductions. This is due to the fact that they can't build as good a car here in the U.S. as they used to.
All of us that have believe that Toyota was truly committed to quality car production here in the U.S. see that our beliefs were not well-founded.
They continue to do well with their Lexus line which took almost every premium car category.
thanks,
xlegend
I have a theory about Toyota's slipping quality. Toyota has become a victim of its own success and many people who buy Toyota equate Lexus's quality with Toyota, and rightly so since it is the same company.
Toyota customers have become so finicky and exacting that I believe they report the slightest of annoyances as problems that in years past would be considered normal.
Since all Avalons are assembled in the US, I wonder if the Japanese version (the Pronard) has the same quality issues. I wonder if there are any statistics on that and would they share that information. Still, I believe consumers have become so demanding that they expect Lexus quality at a Toyota price.
Very annoying and can degrade the initial ownership experience but not the whole picture and not an indicator of long term function and durability.
In 1980, the wife and I bought a GM "x" car that appeared to be assembled by drunks and a Honda Civic that was "perfect". The X gave me a low cost 100k, the Civic needed CV joints, paint and rings an was gone by '85(50k).
My 2000 Lincoln LS, had great initial quality, but has developed annoying elctrical gremlins and had a power window quit in the down position on the hottest day of the year.
I've got the Avalon replacement on order (10 weeks and counting by the way)and look forward to making a long term comparison.
Another question - the invoice I received after my oil change stated "Chassis lube IF NECESSARY". I am wondering if they even did it, and if not, why not? For the last l4 years with my old car, I had oil change and lube at the same time, every 3,000 miles.
I've been enjoying this TownHall for a long time now - and appreciate the fact that every time I have a problem or question, someone out there cares enough to answer. THANKS !!
My car runs great on either. No dramatic difference to speak of. I can tell you the Mobil 1 synth tranny fluid is amazing. The car's tranny is noticeably smoother.
FYI: We are going to put Amsoil in a 7m-ge that we are almost done rebuilding. We talk like we will tear it open after 25, or so, thousand miles, to check????? ...ask me in a year! -nomad-
Still no sign of it. Any similiar experience. Did I order the only car in high demand?
Insights appreciated.
The usual way to get a specific color, option package set, seats, etc. is for a dealership or regional TMS contact for the leasing compnay to find one inbound to your area and have the dealer that the lease company buys through 'swap' it for one destined for them.
If there's no sign of it a) The leasing company doesn't have the contacts to get visibiity to it b) There aren't any inbound to your area.
Bigger dealerships can call around and see if the car is in inventory somewhere.
The dealerships scattered around in the Southeastern Toyota Distribution zone currently have 27 White XL Bucket Avalons in Stock.
I've been dealing with this Leasing Co through my employer for 15 yrs now. Once they've signed the papers on the car, they don't care if it ever arrives.
If anyone feels that the factory tire width on the Avalon is too narrow, like I do, keep in mind that every car manufacturer has to care about fuel economy when they put the tires on the car. The reason Toyota has 205/60 R16 tires on the Avalon is because this is the best compromise between ride quality, handling and fuel economy. You can put 215, 225 or even 245 tires on Avalon along with bigger sized wheels (17 or 18 inch). In this case, your gas mileage will be 15-25% lower, but 'handling' will improve and the car will look 'sharp' too. At the same time 'ride quality' won't be like the one you have and your 'acceleration times' (0 to 60 or 50-70) will drop too. Travellerjb's formula for getting 31 mpg is ideal, probably the combination of the factory Michelin's along with the choice for using Mobil 1 synthetic engine oil.... 31 mpg at 80 mph is excellent,...
Since the Avalon ride quality is excellent with the factory tires this is the best way to go. As far as replacing them in the future(once the MXV's are done- in about 30K -since its an H rated tire), as an alternative to the Michelin's, is to use Yokohama AVS ES. They are less expensive , they look great and they are of the highest quality.
I brought my 1996 Avalon in for 115k mile service last week and for Toyota service to look at the Check Engine Light.
Service later called me, all is fine and the Check Engine light refers to the Purge Valve and the Charcoal Canister needs to be replace and the estimated cost would be 615 dollars. I ask why so much, this seems out of line and the dealership in LA simple said its their standard price for doing such work.
I also asked if some of these items are covered under a warranty by Toyota, of course not to the service mans knowledge.
All help is appreciated in this matter, I'm now looking at an independent mechanic who will use Toyota parts and charge me less than half the price for such work.
Best Wishes
Michael
CUSAFR
3.3-liter 24-valve DOHC V6 with VVT-i
The '03 Avalon engine is going into the 2003 1/2 & 2004 V6 Camry. Actually Toyota.com shows the Avalon powerplant in the V6 Camrys already, but your dealer may not have one on the lot as of yet. Toyota is shifting the engines around a bit.
For me the '03 has plenty of power , but if you wait for the '04 you've even have more.
My entry #2221 tells the story on the tire size. However I do not live in CA, where big fat tires are the norm, plus I really like the factory Michelin MXV4s for now.