Toyota Avalon 2004 and earlier

belanger3 · January 2001

I forgot to add one thing, my husband has a bad back - herniated disc right now. Anyone have problems with the seat of a Avalon ? He likes his GMC truck to get in and out of because it's up higher off the ground. Thanks again.

rcoos · January 2001

I'm thinking about purchasing either a Avalon XLS or the Lexus ES300. I hear that the Lexus will be a new model for '02.

Please give me your opinion on the two cars!

Thank you,
Ralph

cliffy1 · January 2001

I spend 30 to 45 minutes with my customers finding out what really meets their needs so it really isn't possible to cover all the differences between the two cars and how they meet your individual needs.

In general, the Avalon is going to give you a lot more room with nearly the same level of amenities for less money. It will not have the status of a Lexus, nor the warranty.

Drive them both and see what suits you.

millymoore · January 2001

You don't have to spend 30K for an Avalon. We have a 99 XL and I know we didn't pay over 25K.
We went back to the same dealer last Sunday and were offered a deal of 24,500 out the door with my trade of a '93 Mazda 626 for a 2001 XL. Since they now add a destination charge they will offer free lifetime tire replacements to make up for it. We are thrilled with our 99 XL and felt the XLS wasn't worth the extra.

belanger3 · January 2001

thank you for the advise! I know I don't need the 30k avalon. The 25k avalon will ride just the same !! < or less> as you stated. Does your husband like the avalon too? Is it too small for him or hurt his back? I would be interested. Thanks Barbara

sobright1 · January 2001

My father has a 2000 Avalon XLS with leather seats. As he is 79 years old, I am often called upon to drive him about. I have probably put more miles (@4000 miles) than has he. Simply put, the car drives wonderfully. It is by far the smoothest, quitest car I have ever driven. I have been considering the Avalon for several months but prefer the XLS and am reluctant to open my wallet quite that wide. I am 5'7" tall and unfortunately have arthritis of the spine. Like an earlier post, I too have had difficulty finding a comfortable seating position. In my case, given my short torso, the headrest is too high to provide support of my head. Were I a few inches taller it would seem to fit perfectly. Recently I sat in, but did not drive, an Avalon with cloth seats. I was surprised that the cloth seats seemed to provide support that, for me, was lacking on the leather versions. For those who may not be able to find a comfortable seating position, you might try both the cloth and leather versions.

txyankee · January 2001

I am considering an Avalon XLS, but cannot find a SINGLE one (with bucket seats) in Texas without leather seats. This is unbelievable to me- they ought to just make leather standard in the XLS. I don't want to pay $30K for this car. It looks like I have to order one from Kentucky to get fabric seats.

Also, the regional distributor, Gulf States Toyota, adds on all kinds of questionable packages to all Avalons whether you want them or not, totaling close to $1K. Does anyone know how to avoid these extras?

Also, does anyone know why a rear spoiler is only available in the Southeast states?

I've only purchased Hondas before, where the purchasing is SO MUCH easier- just choose DX,LX, or EX and your transmission and engine preference and you're done. No option packages, no distributor add-ons. Seems like buying a Toyota is a more frustrating experience already!

Thanks.

millymoore · January 2001

The fabric seats are very comfortable. I am 5'9 and my husband is taller. He loves the Avalon as much as I do. The only extra we added was keyless remote. I think the only extra tacked that was already on the car was Toyoguard (about $300) and probably floor mats. All of the Avalons I have looked at recently had very little extra added. We live just outside Tampa, FL so can look in our town, Tampa, St. Pete, Lakeland and as far as Orlando if we needed to. My husband called around and got prices then brought it back to our dealer of choice. They are more than willing to match it.

chenkang · January 2001

I recently purchased a 01 Avalon for myself while my wife is driving her 98 Volvo S70 GET. The car comes with several minor defects: noise on window, missing coin holder and one under inflected tire, etc. However, I still think that Avalon is probably one of the best car for under 28K for those who prefer Japanese. But it's no way a "perfect" car. Volvo is much better built with a solid feel and high quality material. It has also better steering and roan feel, though not as quite as Avalon.

My feelings is that Toyota is a pretty much a "domestic" car now in term of quality. I will probably not buying another Avalon again because it is somewhat disappointed.

rzep22 · January 2001

I also test drove the S70 (1998) before buying 2001 L.

I loved the breaks and seat comfort in Volvo but the interior size
and quality issues shifted me more towards Avalon. Before making my
decision (and before test driving), I followed discussion boards here and
S70 for ~3 weeks. have read (from) many more dissatisfied people with S70
than Avalon. Furthermore, since both dealerships are close to my house, I visited
them both over the weekend and while Volvo had between 10-13 off the
lease 1997-1998 I 70, I could not find one 2000 Avalon while there were 4 1999
Avalons and below at Toyota.

For 3-4K extra I got brand new 2001XL as opposed to 1998 S70 with 35-40K on it.
Also, lets remember VOLVO=FORD.

One car (in the price range/class) I would choose over Avalon would be something
similar to 1998 3.2TL. I test drove that car as well. I loved the handling/steering/brakes
etc. However, little too small and I simply dislike the 1999 and above outside appearance.
The 1999+ almost looks like accord. The 3.5 is out of my price range + I dislike it as well.

Finally, three days after the purchase, my 2001 Avalon developed slow trans fluid
leak. I took it back to the same dealer (yes, it makes a difference where you
take the car to get fixed and where you buy it) and within an hour some bolt was
tighten and no problems ever since (over a month).

sobright1 · January 2001

I know some of you Toyota lovers (not that that is a bad thing - I am partial to them myself) may not believe this but good as the Avalon is, there is another car out there that many of you, particularly those of you as frugal as am I, might wish to take a look at. It has nearly everything that the Avalon XLS has but is often discounted and can be bought for @$10,000 less. Before I name the car, let me be the first to say that my initial reaction was as predictable as most of yours will be. Just go look at the car. I am talking about the Hyundai, yes HYUNDAI, XG300. The engine is not quite as strong at 192HP and the depreciation has been historically terrible, but it is a very handsome car with nearly everything on the XLS offered as standard equipment. Though early Hyundai products were notoriously bad, every major publication - Motor Trend, Car & Driver, Road & Track etc. have commented on the far better quality of these cars of late. Just days ago I got this months Consumer's Report magazine and another Hyundai product, the Excel, was picked just behind the Civic and ahead of the Corolla and the Cavalier. Other than price, another reason that I have to consider this car is the 10 year/100,000 mile Powertrain warranty and the 6 year/60000 bumper to bumper warranty. The sticker even lists a rental car should your XG300 require repairs. I have been leaning toward the Avalon for months but, given all of these reasons, and the strong consumer satisfaction I have read about, particularly on the Edmunds Sonata posts, I cannot help but contemplate the XG300 similarly equipped as the the Avalon XLS that can be bought for around $22,000. NO OFFENSE TOYOTA FANS and NO I am not a car salesman - just a frugal guy that wants a good luxurious car!

joel2468 · January 2001

I just traded my 1999 Volvo S70 for a 2001 Toyota Avalon XL. I owned the S70 for 18 months. Although I really liked my Volvo, and will remember it as one of my my most favorite cars that I've owned, it turned out not to be very reliable. I have to say that the types of reliability issues are very well documented on this and other bulletin boards/chat rooms. It still didn't make it any easier to live with. The following comments apply to pre-2000 Volvos (except for the S70, now S60 for 2001) models. The Volvo S70 was a well built car. Mine had no squeaks/rattles. For its size (186") it felt like a bigger, heavier car. The brakes are very good, although I think the ABS activated too often, and the seats are incomparable for almost any size person. The steering is precise, and with a nicely sized car, made maneuverability a snap. BUT, the Volvo's ride was rough, allowing almost any road irregularity to intrude into the cabin, and interior noise levels were very high. Contributing factors were, among other things, a loud engine, loud wipers, tire noise, wind noise, and "bangs" when driving over even the slightest potholes or expansion joints. The engine always seemed underpowered without the turbo, and with the turbo, had a distinct hesitation. I could go on, but overall impression is that Volvos are durable, not particularly reliable, and not refined...almost crude compared to today's cars. I think the 2000+ models are a quantum leap beyond in both refinement and performance. All models, though, in my opinion, are not worth the price of admission. If a fully optioned Volvo V70, for example, was comparably priced to an Infiniti I30, Acura 3.2 TL, BMW 3 series, it would be a bargain. A price in the mid 30's, however, is neither warranted or earned. If an S80 was priced fully optioned in the mid 30s, it too would be a bargain. A pricetag over 40K is neither warranted or earned. Volvos are a definite cut above the run of the mill, but not in league with other marques like Mercedes, BMW, and even Audi. With the exception of the S80, I wouldn't call them a luxury, or even near luxury, car either. A few comments about the Avalon, and other cars (Acura 3.2, BMW 3, Infiniti I30, etc.). They are not perfect cars, but I think they come closer to delivering what the customer wants for the price paid. I chose the Avalon because of its design (the 3.2TL felt cramped, a situation that would be alleviated if the sunroof could be deleted, and the Infiniti seats, and number of dealerships, were a problem for me). Specifcally Avalon, the steering is a little vague compared to the Volvo, although it is fine overall, and easy to maneuver. The brakes are spongy, and don't inspire confidence, although they are easy to modulate, and seem to stop the car well. I can't understand why manufacturers don't allow braking to be user selectable, like suspension, and now pedals. You should be able to select low effort, with assist, or medium, or high. The seats don't allow a complete range of adjustments, and pivot, in my opinion, incorrectly. Although good, they are not great, and not the type of seats that would be comfortable for a 10 hour drive. BUT, the ride is smooth, the car is very reliable, the car is quiet, comfortable, the mileage good, the engine great, the interior very pleasing. I could go on, but overall impression so far is that the Avalon may not be as durable, but it is reliable, and refined. And, does deliver on its promise, and therefore worth the price of admission. At this point, I am happy with my trade. One last thing, if Toyota really wants to lower the avarage age of its buyers, it should include the Avalon in its considerations. Minor improvements to braking, steering, and seats would bring in younger buyers (average age now mid 50s for Avalon). Thanks for letting m ramble.

rzep22 · January 2001

Yes, Yugo was also very cheap comparing to Civics/Corollas/VWS golf.

Hope that Hyundai is around 10 years from now to honor your warranty.
And even then, I rather dry my car where I need to go than back and forth
to the dealer.

ingatetwo · January 2001

Hey it's worth a try. I've read the reviews you're talking about. I'm just concerned about what happens after the bumper-bumper expires, that is if you plan on driving it that long. That is why I've chosen Avalon; I keep my cars for a long time!

pilot13 · January 2001

If you would like to read an excellent commentary on the infamous sludge controvorsy, take a look at The Complaint Station if you get time. I know that for the most part, this site is pretty sleazy, but once in awhile there is a genuinely good posting.
It was posted on Jan 12, by a chap who says he is a Toyota Technician, and who identifies himself as K.Lee. His thoughts on this subject are really worth seeing.
Let me know what you think.
By the way, I checked out that Tundra Topic you recommended---it's outstanding! Thanks.

dianne4toyota · January 2001

Like Cliffy, I am a large dealer but I am in Southern California. Am also on a few other Town Hall Discussion areas as well. My specialty is order-building Avalons for folks just the way you want them! And, I am just a fraction over invoice for the cars I have in stock.

I have often built cars for folks who wanted XLS'es with cloth, or even w/o moonroofs... or XLs with the sunroofs. If it's available with Toyota, I'm all ears. Just shipped a special one to Utah, and am constantly building unusual cars for Avalon seekers!

My usual stock cars are like this:
XL = GI or GK cars.
XLS = GU or GV cars, some with moonroof, some not. We don't get a lot of VD cars here (traction/vehicle skid) but we do get some!

-Dianne
dianne@earthlink.net
http://www.carsontoyota.com/master_wecare.html

chewyman · January 2001

Question for Cliffy1.
I have a 97 Avalon XL. MSRP was $28K. I traded a 95 Avalon XL in on this and did very well at the time. The 97 does have more miles and is older now with 73K. Edmunds quotes a used car price of $11,986. I tried to trade for an Acura 3.2 TL. I had decided to move to the Acura since they have more content at a lower cost. But they offered me only 8K. They explained the low trade amount due to introduction of new body style by Toyota. They use the KBB. I know it is tough for you to say but does 8K seem like it is in the ball park on a trade-in for a 97XL? I thought that used vs. new buyer groups were composed of people with different objecives. Used buyers being those that could not or chose not to spend so much for a car. Could you explain this? I see that Camry's are holding their values better. Is this a demographic thing? Does the Avalon appeal to older buyers who have money to buy new and the Avalon is just not very attractive sitting on a used car lot. Particulartly with younger buyers who tend to be in the used car market more often? It appears that the interest in the Avalon on a used car lot may be likened to an old Cadillac or Taurus where used car buyers are concerned. Yet I see very few for sale. Is it safe to say that the Avalon does not appeal to younger and other used car buyers like the Camry. You must see it every day. My dealer says they only get about 1-2 buyers looking for an new Avalon on a given day. Is the lack of interest for an Avalon due to the low profile of the advertising and marketing of Avalons? Depreciation is an important cost of ownership and I bought Toyota since I thought that it would hold up better than a Taurus but now I am having second thoughts on my decision. What are your thoughts and experiences?
Cliffy I would appreciate a reply. Thanks for the help.

cliffy1 · January 2001

Let me start by saying that $8000 sounds a little light but not too much. Here is what a used car manager looks at when evaluating the value of a used car. He does not look at Kelly or Edmunds. He looks at "black book" which is a wholesaler's guide, auction reports and he calls a couple of wholesalers. He also looks at what he thinks he can reasonably sell your car for, if he chooses to retail it on his lot. If he can sell it for $12000, he figures any car will take between $500 to $1000 in "reconditioning" expenses and needs to make about $2000 on the sale. Taking all this into account, he sets a value. This value normally is within a couple of hundred of what Kelly estimates. This is why they showed you that site. Neither Kelly, nor Edmunds buys cars so their figures are guesses.

Now, lets look at your car. It has 72K miles and therefore is not eligible for most extended warranties. The miles also put it outside of the limits that many banks have for financing. This means that when he sells it, he needs to find a customer with cash or very strong credit or he must use a "secondary" lender which means very high interest rates. None of these will prevent him from selling it, but it limits who he can sell it too.

Like I said, $8000 sounds a little light but not horribly so. Shop it around. If you live near a CarMax dealership, take it to them to see what they will offer to buy it for.

chewyman · January 2001

Thanks for the help cliffy. I think I understand the confusing world of trade-ins a lot better now. I did not know about the Black Book.
The Warranty and credit issues are also new to me and I see how that could effect the dealers decisions.
Conclusion: I must either sell or keep my 97XL in order to be happy with the result.

lemonlawyer · January 2001

I've seen a number of posts about the 2000-01 Avalon XLS and problems that customers are having. Since I own one and have had most of the problems referenced on the board, I thought I'd give my two cents:

1. Seat uncomfortable- I am tall (6' 0"). The leather drivers seat is uncomfortable in the area of the lumbar support, but only on long drives. The passenger seat feels fine. If only I could drive from the right hand side. I doubt this "problem" will ever be fixed, and haven't tried since my wife is the primary driver and she's short and thinks the seat is fine.

2. Drivers seat pops- My dealer has ordered a whole new seat frame to address this problem. Since it hasn't been installed, I can't say yet if this will solve the problem. If your dealer wasn't able to duplicate, don't worry, it'll just get worse, and eventually, they will.

3. Rattling noise from under dash on acceleration (more noticeable when cold)- this noise was coming from the steering column. Dealer lubed a part in the steering column and noise is now gone. You can duplicate this noise by stopping with engine running and slowly turning steering wheel all the way to the left, then all the way to the right, etc. (move it very slowly), you will hear noise that is identical to the noise that you hear when accelerating. Dealer also ordered a new part in the steering column (claiming that lube is not a temporary fix only).

4. Radio volume fluctuates- Dealer has replaced radio and an amplifier, but it still isn't fixed. Dealer claims Toyota is working on TSB that will fix the problem, but no news on when it will come out.

5. Rattle from right hand side of dashboard- I don't know what the fix was, but I know that the dealer did more damage "fixing" this problem than was justified.

6. Wandering- when we took delivery, the vehicle wandered badly. Several alignments later, the car seems fine, but the alignment seems out (again).

7. Driver door hard to close- I noticed that our drivers' door was adjusted oddly after we took delivery. That is, the window seal between the top of the door and the top of the car was pinching when we closed the door. The dealer adjusted the door by lowering it (slightly, so there is very small gap between the top of the door and the car), and now there is a wind noise. My advice: Leave it alone. Doors that are slightly hard to close beat a wind noise any day. Also, the drivers' door body molding (the molding mounted to the body) constantly dries out, causing a creaking noise when it is cold outside and the car goes over bumps. The dealer has ordered a new molding (it is my understanding that a new molding has been engineered for several reasons - see www.yotarepair.com.

(has anyone else noticed any of this?)

8. Dancing lights reflecting from instrument panel onto the inside of the windshield- if you are a tall driver (or you lift the seat up high) you may notice lights that dance across the windshield during nighttime driving or a green glow on the windshield. These appear to be caused by reflections off the instrument panel plastic lense. My dealer says that Toyota is re-engineering the dashboard/instrument panel to address this problem, but the TSB is not out yet. Supposedly, this involves extending the dashboard (top part that covers the instrument panel) and re-doing the angle of the instrument panel lens.

Comments welcome.

rzepa2 · January 2001

2001 XL:

The only problem I noticed is the "reflection issue"
on the drivers side window. Remmber reading here while ago that someone had the dealer change the angle of the dashboard etc.

Personally, it does not bother me that much since
I don't drive late at night + if I do, it is most of the times on illumiated streets.

I am going to wait and see if Toyota comes up with TSB etc.

Hey, Cliffy
what do you guys do for people who complain about
"relfecting" dashboard ?

cliffy1 · January 2001

I haven't had a customer complaint on the dash. I've seen it but none of my customers have complained that I know about so I don't know what we would tell them.

21946 · January 2001

I RECENTLY PURCHASED A TOYOTA AVALON 2001 IN OCT OF 2000. THE AVALON DRIVES GREAT BUT I HAVE ONE COMPLAINT AND IT IS THE COMFORT OF THE DRIVERS SEAT. WHEN MY WIFE AND I BOUGHT THE AVALON WE HAD TEST DRIVEN THE XLS WHICH HAD LEATHER SEATS WHICH I HAD ONLY DRIVEN FOR ABOUT 10 MINUTES. SO WE DECIDED TO GET THE AVALON XL WITH CLOTH SEATS WHICH HAD TO COME FROM ANOTHER STATE. IN A COUPLE OF DAYS OUR NEW CAR ARRIVED AND WE SIGNED THE NECESSARY PAPERS AN WERE OFF. (WE DECIDED ON THE CLOTH SEATS BECAUSE LEATHER IS TO COLD IN THE WINTER AND TO HOT IN THE SUMMER) WELL I ONLY GET TO DRIVE THE AVALON ON THE WEEKENDS BECAUSE I USE A COMPANY CAR ALL WEEK FOR WORK. WHEN I DROVE IT THE FIRST WEEKEND WE HAD IT MY BACK STARTED TO HURT AND I COULD NOT GET COMFORTABLE (THIS WAS AFTER ABOUT A HALF AN HOUR AFTER DRIVING) SO I LET MY WIFE DRIVE AND I SAT IN THE PASSENGER SEAT WHICH I FOUND TO BE A LOT MORE COMFORTABLE THAN THE DRIVER SEAT. SO THE WE TOOK A TRIP AND THIS WOULD MEAN ME DRIVING FOR ABOUT 2HOURS, WELL TO SAY THE LEAST IF PUT MY POOR WIFE THROUGH HELL COMPLAINING ABOUT THIS BACK PAIN I WAS HAVING DRIVING THIS CAR!!! ON THE WAY BACK I DECIDED TO HAVE MY WIFE DRIVE FOR THE FIRST HOUR WHILE I SAT IN THE PASSENGER SEAT (THINKING MAYBE IT WAS JUST MY BACK THAT WAS ACTING UP ON THE WAY DOWN) WELL AS SOON AS I SAT BEHIND THE WHEEL OF THE CAR MY BACK STARTED TO HURT AGAIN!! SO I SAID TO MY WIFE I THINK THE ADJUSTABLE LUMBAR SUPPORT MIGHT BE CAUSING ME THIS PROBLEM AND SHE SAID WHY DON`I YOU TAKE IT BACK TO THE DEALER, SO TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT I DID AND THEY REMOVED THE LUMBAR SUPPORT FROM THE DRIVERS SEAT AND GUESS WHAT I STILL HAVE PROBLEMS WITH THE SEAT!! THIS WEEK I AM TAKING IT BACK TO THE DEALER SO I CAN LOOK INSIDE THE BACK OF BOTH SEATS TO SEE IF IN FACT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO AND MAYBE COME UP WITH SOME SORT OF SOLUTION. I HAVE BEEN TO A BACK STORE AND BOUGHT A CUSHION TO SIT ON AND THIS MADE MY BACK FEEL GREAT BUT THEN MY LEGS STARTED TO FALL ASLEEP SO I RETURNED IT BACK TO THE STORE. IF ANY ONE HAS ANY SUGGESTIONS ON HOW I CAN MAKE THIS SEAT MORE COMFORTABLE PLEASE LET ME KNOW AS I AM HALF TEMPTED TO GET RID OF THIS CAR AND BUY SOMETHING MORE COMFORTABLE. MY PREVIOUS CAR WAS A 1993 TOYOTA CAMRY AND I JUST LOVED THAT CAR AND HAD NO PROBLEMS WITH THE SEATS AT ALL.

joel2468 · January 2001

have found one (and only one) moderately comfortable position, but only for short trips. I have looked at a lot of other cars since my purchase to see where the problem might be in the Avalon. I think the problem, at least for me, is that the seat pivots at the frontm and does not allow a forward tilt to offset the angle of the back seat. I am 5'8". To get the seat into a position where I can see most of the speedo, and have the steering wheel in a comfortable position, I need to have the seat raised. I also like to sit upright, not with the seatback at a 30-45 degree angle. If I have the seat back straight, the lumbar support kills my back. I could offset this by tilting the whole seat forward (back and bottom). This would take pressure off the lumbar, and let my legs be straight out, without pressure underneath my knees. Many of the other cars I looked at fall into these categories (1) both seat bottom and seatback operate separately, with seat bottom pivoting towards center (2) seat bottom and back act together. Depending on the amount of fine adjustments allowed, both can work well. In designs where you can set seat back and bottom separately AND THEN move them as a single unit (tilt), I have no problems. Volvo seats are like this, Acura is close (although seats in 3.2 TL are a bit snug--sport seats--for my taste), Infiniti I30, although a bit hard, allow this fine adjustment. One other thing, Toyota Avalon does not allow infinite adjustment for tilt of the steering wheel, or have a telescoping adjustment. This would also help in finding a comfortable driving position. I took a trip to Disnet before Xmas, and rented a Mercury Grand Marquis. This car, although huge, was very comfortable because the seats had many adjustments, and although the sterring did not telescope, the pedals were movable. GREAT IDEA. I'll close by saying that I was disappointed with the Avalon for about a week after my purchase. Since then I have come to appreciate its many good points, especially quiet, smooth ride. BUT, if Toyota wants to increase sales of the Avalon, and appeal to a younger buyer they need to (1) make the brakes less spongy, inspire more confidence (2) offer tilt (infinite) and telescoping steering wheel (3) fix the seats (4) offer a bumper to bumper warranty that is better than camry, but less than Lexus--4 Year, 48K (5) alloy wheels on all trim levels (XL and XLS), with better tires for more precise handling (6) steering that is a little more precise, less boost. I think overall the Avalon is a good car, but not a great car. This design will be around till 2005, so plenty of room for improvement. If I were Toyota, I would improve what I have today, and hang the guy from GM behind a Pachinko parlor.

joel2468 · January 2001

have found one (and only one) moderately comfortable position, but only for short trips. I have looked at a lot of other cars since my purchase to see where the problem might be in the Avalon. I think the problem, at least for me, is that the seat pivots at the front and does not allow a forward tilt to offset the angle of the back seat. I am 5'8". To get the seat into a position where I can see most of the speed, and have the steering wheel in a comfortable position, I need to have the seat raised. I also like to sit upright, not with the setback at a 30-45 degree angle, or more. If I have the seat back straight, the lumbar support kills my back. I could offset this by tilting the whole seat forward (back and bottom). This would take pressure off the lumbar area, and let my legs be straight out, without pressure underneath my knees. Many of the other cars I looked at fall into these categories (1) both seat bottom and setback operate separately, with seat bottom pivoting towards center (2) seat bottom and back act together. Depending on the amount of fine adjustments allowed, both can work well. In designs where you can set seat back and bottom separately AND THEN move them as a single unit (tilt), I have no problems. Volvo seats are like this, Acura is close (although seats in 3.2 AL are a bit snug--sport seats--for my taste), Infiniti I30, although a bit hard, allow this fine adjustment. One other thing, Toyota Avalon does not allow infinite adjustment for tilt of the steering wheel, or have a telescoping adjustment. This would also help in finding a comfortable driving position. I took a trip to Disney before Xmas, and rented a Mercury Grand Marquis. This car, although huge, was very comfortable because the seats had many adjustments, and although the steering did not telescope, the pedals were movable. GREAT IDEA. I'll close by saying that I was disappointed with the Avalon for about a week after my purchase. Since then I have come to appreciate its many good points, especially quiet, smooth ride. BUT, if Toyota wants to increase sales of the Avalon, and appeal to a younger buyer they need to (1) make the brakes less spongy, inspire more confidence (2) offer tilt (infinite) and telescoping steering wheel (3) fix the seats (4) offer a bumper to bumper warranty that is better than camry, but less than Lexus--maybe 4 Year, 48K (5) alloy wheels on all trim levels (XL and XLS), with better tires for more precise handling (6) steering that is a little more precise, less boost. I think overall the Avalon is a good car, but not a great car. This design will be around till 2005, so plenty of room for improvement. If I were Toyota, I would improve what I have today with these changes (and I'm sure others can suggest more changes), and hang the guy from GM that Toyota hired behind a Pachinko parlor somewhere in Tokyo.

ingatetwo · January 2001

My husband complains a lot about the driver's seat. I guess he's not alone...I plan to drive my '96 for a long time. I'd like it to go at least 150,000 miles. What do you all think about this?

jkyled · January 2001

I also purchased a 2001 Avalon XLS this past October with package #7. When I took my first trip that lasted more than a few hours my back became sore as well. I, however, had not adjusted the seat very much since I had purchased the car. So I played around with it and found a remedy. I am 6'1 and weigh about 190 bbs. Here is what I did. I took the seat down all the way to the floor and then tilted it back all the way. I then brought the back of the seat up more straight. I have my lumbar sticking out as far as it will go. I recently went to PA for the holidays which is a 9 1/2 hour trip and felt great. We had traded a full-sized van in on the Avalon. Those vans are supposed to be some of the most comfortable vehicles for long-distance traveling. It was comfortable, but after adjusting my seat in the Avalon I would have to say the Avalon was more comfortable than the van. I think the seat is pretty versatile. Play around with it and hopefully, you'll find the position that is best for you.

As for the green glow on your windshield, try turning the intensity down. That takes care of it for me. I hope these remedies will work for you as they have for me.

bwia · January 2001

Thanks jkyled for sharing and bringing sanity back to this forum. Since the holiday season began last November it appears that the number of complaints have increased considerably. What we have here is the herd mentality.

I have driven my 2000 Avalon XLS for over 12,000 miles and I have not encountered any of these so called problems. Maybe these cry babies should return to the dealership for a thorough demonstration before trashing the Avalon.

joel2468 · January 2001

If concerns or complaints are well reasoned, and well written, they are valid for inclusion in the forum. This is neither "herd mentality" or being "cry babies". This is how products are improved over time. I'll say again (as you can see from my previous posts) the Avalon is a good car, but not a great car. It delivers on its promise, you get what you pay for, although I think its a little overpriced, but then price is related to demand. It's too bad, because with minor changes and improvements, it could be a GREAT car. Maybe then it wouldn't be compared to a Buick.

But, maybe you're right...silence the "cry babies", and let's just keep it a good car.

skywalker2001 · January 2001

I am getting ready to purchase a 2001 XLS and would like to find out if anyone knows whether it is worthwhile to add the VSC (Vehicle Stability Control) option. Is it a valuable safety feature that is worth spending an extra $680 on? Any input would be greatly appreciated.

jimcarr · January 2001

Have a 2k XLS without the VSC option. Don't miss the traction control as all one has to do is to let up on the throttle to stop the wheels from spinning.I got plenty of practice doing this in OK after Christmas coming up from Dallas to home.

Living in Nebraska, I don't really have any need for the extra help in going around curves. We don't have many. Actually, I did not feel that it would be worth the money to me as I am a senior citizen and tend to be a somewhat conservative driver.

The salesman had both kinds on the lot, but pointed out that he had never been able to take advantage of the other features as one has to be in over his head to really need. it.

Hope that this helps.

sobright1 · January 2001

Like many who visit these forums I do so in search of the best car to purchase. I also do so to hear about EVERYONE'S experiences with their Avalon both GOOD and BAD. Bwia you have every right to be happy with your Avalon, good for you. However, other Avalon owners or potential owners have just as much right to express their views as do you. To mention a specific dislike is not "trashing" the Avalon but even if it were that is what these forums are here for, to express experiences and opinions. What credability would these forums have if every post spoke glowingly of every aspect of the Avalon? There is no reason to be insulting just because you may not agree with someone else's opinion or because you have been lucky enough to have a problem free car. Posts such as yours and others like it, particularly some in the past directed at those who claim to have a V6 sludge problem, only serve to intimidate against potential honest discourse. If they can expect to be orally assaulted for their ideas, who will dare continue writing to these forums. The only thing that should be politically correct is the truth.

cliffy1 · January 2001

This is a fairly useless option on dry pavement. When Toyota did the training on the cars, I was the only salesman in the country to drive it hard enough in a slalom course to engage it. The instructor didn't even believe I had done it until I told him it beeped at me.

One wet pavement, it is much more useful. It does a great job of preventing "understeer" and will give you more control in a panic situation.

gotsha · January 2001

After having my 2001 Avalon XLS for several months now, I really have to say I'm not impressed by it at all. I find a lot of little things annoying about the car like the mpg readout resetting every time you turn the car off and not being able to find the door lock switches or window switches in the dark and not being able to hear the remote lock/unlock "chirp". I guess I took all these things for granted on the 5 different cars I've owned in the past ten years that all had these missing features. While the car rides nice and quiet and handles fairly well, I think my '99 Concorde has a much more comfortable driving position, only it had more wind noise. I am waiting to see what kind of gas mileage my XLS will show driving down to Florida in a couple of weeks. My Concode gave me anywhere from 26-32 on a trip like that. The way the computer is set up on the XLS, you have to figure everything out with a calculator because it resets itself every time you shut the engine off.

lemonlawyer · January 2001

Drivers seat uncomfortable- I have had a chance to check on this issue more carefully and have begun believing that the problem is caused by the use of the adjustable lumbar support. Now that I have totally released (i.e. in the least support) the lumbar support, the seat feels as comfortable as the passenger seat. This is probably proof that just because you can (make the lumbar more supportive) doesn't mean you should . . .

On the VSC, we have it too, even though we live in Southern California area and it almost never rains. I don't really expect it to engage on regular basis. However, like the ABS and the airbags, I expect that it will work when we need it (i.e. when it is raining and we might have lost control of the vehicle). I have noticed that it engages and seems to work fine when I force it . . .

Re: the crybaby comments, we love our Avalon, and just wanted to share the resolution of some common issues. It seems that the only crybaby's here may be the ones who complained about my previous messages.....

skywalker2001 · January 2001

Thanks to all of those who responded to my VSC question. Since I live in Florida and won't be driving in icy conditons, I think I'll take a pass on the VSC. Haven't had a problem with skidding on wet roads since I bought my 95 XLS, and expect that I won't have such a problem with the 2001 model(knock on wood). Thanks again.

beantown2 · January 2001

I have had my 2001 XLS since November. I was initially skeptical about the VSC option but got it anyway since it was on the car I wanted. Now that I have felt it in action I am completely satisfied with the option and feel it is well worth the extra money for someone living in snow and ice conditions.

Here in the Northeast, icing and snow dustings are a regular part of winter. There is a lot of melt during the day and it refreezes every evening. This makes driving particularly challenging during the morning and evening commutes as ice recoats the roads.

The VSC in the Avalon works wonderfully in these conditions. I can feel the system taking over anytime I round a corner and hit some patch ice. It also works well when one wheel spins on ice and the other three don't. The VSC response is smooth, not at all like when ABS kicks in. I don't find the feedback very obvious. All you see is the VSC light flickering. You feel nothing through the wheel or pedal.

If you live in an area with ice and snow conditions like New England then I recommend the option enthusiastically. The only down side I can see is that you tend to drive a little less carefully that if you experienced slipping and small spinouts. With VSC you don't even realize that it is slippery until the person in front of you fish tails.

Just wanted to let folks know who are considering whether it is wotrth it or not.

beantown2 · January 2001

I have seen a few posts on this lately. Didn't understand what it was about until I noticed it myself one night. I found two things that help.

1) turning down the dask illumination works. You can watch it "disappear" as you lower the dial.

2) raising or lowering the seat helps too. I changes the angle at which the refelction comes back.

Either or both of these should minimize the problem. This is not unique to Avalon. I drive rental cars on a regular basis and I have noticed that many different makes and models (US and Foreign) have the same problem only worse.

toy_av_xl2001 · January 2001

just 200 miles...
the good: nice quality (lunar mist), quietness & ride (scary--cant judge your speed by engine noise or road feel), basic ad stereo & speakers, lighted ignition key lock area; headroom; running daytime lights; pocket storage areas; extra visor pop out; the high shoulder appearance; room inside for passengers; dash setup I/ warning light section is fine;

the less than good: driver seat positioning to see the gauges for my 6' height and the bus like steering wheel position (have to lean back then move too tight to wheel; needs telescoping steering or better); seeding of the cloth and carpets (stone); key less entry can open trunk I/I adequate notice (button must be pressed 2 cc according to manual, but I was informed by another restaurant customer I/ an Avalon that they had to close my trunk lid as it was popped open and that it had happened to them also (i would rather have trunk pop fully open to load items from full arms easier, like my 00 taurus that also has more grocery bag clips); cup holders in center middle not great for moving shift lever; power seat pack #2 does not incl memory; air filter should be standard (can it be added?); engine under hood light missing--makes it difficult to check oil, etc. in garage or at night away from lights!; slippery steering wheel w/ that little molding hole; odometer lcd screen can not be seen well w/ polarized sunglasses; shift indication on "stick" hard to see, but will adapt to dash indication, which could be a little stronger; need more lighted switches to prevent groping for buttons; wish pocket storage areas were bigger to fit cd's...should have 20 cd storage system built in; 1000 mile breakin less than 55mph; doors can by tough to close probably due to light weight and air tightness?

does anyone know if a 10 cd sony player can be added to this system?

toyota of simi valley fleet manager was given to us by carsmart.com for inv-$100 price and in/out of dealer in less than 2 hours...he even had fine sratch removed immediately.

the ride and quiet of the Avalon makes it worthwhile so far to pay $4k more than our fully loaded taurus (which is a bit more fun to drive and has the 6cd player, touch entry buttons, leather) and the hope for long term reliability.

toydriver · January 2001

I agree with beantown2 that VSC is a valuable option for anyone driving on snow / ice or other slippery conditions. In the upper midwest, we experience "black-ice" on the roads, usually in morning commutes - where vehicle exhaust condenses and freezes on the road surface. It is so thin a coating that you can't see it (until it's too late). VSC saved me rounding a curve at highway speed, while traveling through Des Moines recently. The road looked clear, but the VSC kicked in to slow me to a safe speed.

VSC is all the rage for sport utility vehicles - with their higher center of gravity and tendency to tip. A recent tv-news piece showed the value of VSC on the Mercedes SUV in preventing roll-overs. It will probably become standard technology on SUVs in the future.

Just my 2 cents worth.

21946 · January 2001

I have a 2001 Toyota Avalon XL Lunar Mist in color and I am experiencing a problem with the paint chipping off. At first I thought a couple of freak accidents with stones flying up and chipping the paint off. But now I am convinced that there has to be something wrong as I now have a total of 6 paint chips on the front of the car and only have 3000 miles on the vehicle.

I have had numerous cars in my life and never have had a problem like this! If anyone else has had this problem please let me know and if there is anything that can be done about it other than touching it up with touch up paint. The way I look at it, if this continues by the time I have 50000 miles on the car I should have about 100 paint chips.

Any comments will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

joel2468 · January 2001

When I purchased my white 2001 XL, I was urged by the dealer to take the Toyoguard package which includes, among other things (e.g. the VIN number etched into all window glass), paint sealant. I didn't really care about this as option is $500+. The sales rep almost insisted, saying that I would be VERY happy that I did, and that it was a worthwhile option. Now I think I understand. I have 1200 miles on my car, and no paint chips so far. Wonder if the sealant has anything to do with this.

By the way, does the 2001 XL/XLS have de-powered front air bags? I can't find this information anywhere.

hawiianavowner · January 2001

21946, I don't know whether you have a bad paint job or not, but I have a 2000 XL in metallic spruce. I put on a 3M clear "bra" on the front of the hood, and do not have any chips there. I have a chip on the rear bumper, and two on the front bumper(no clear bra there, although they are available-www.xpel.com) after 7000 miles. I believe them to be normal wear and tear. As for whether the toyoguard package protects against stone chips, there have been previous posts on these sealant add-ons in other forums, and-it's your money...
toy av xl2001, I did not get the leather option so later on I added a leather steering wheel cover-it feels and looks really great and grips well-www.wheelskins.com- I even bought one for my father-in-law's Suzuki. I also posted previously if the air filter can be added-no response.
Lastly, i can store cd's in the center armrest- I have the front bench seats, but I see now that 2001 Toy's have an in-dash 6 cd player, I wonder if it can be swapped out for the single cd player?

cliffy1 · January 2001

This will do nothing to prevent paint chips. It will protect from acid rain damage, damage from bird droppings and tree sap, but it does not harden the paint.

danielghamm · January 2001

Own a 2001 Avalon XLE with 10,000 miles. Each time I touch the brakes to slow I hear a single "tick" sound coming from behind the radio toward the right side of the dash. Each time I began to accelerate I hear the same single "tick" come from the same area. My best guess is that this sound is related to the seat belt pretensioner (sp?) control mechanism which is located behind the stereo. Does anyone have this same problem?

lorainemax1 · January 2001

I have had my 2000 Avalon XLS for one year and have 16,000 miles on it. Took it in for its first warranty issue yesterday. A low moaning sound coming from the air compressor and a rattle in what sounded like the center dash area.

The Tech found a rock lodged between the condenser and some part of the frame (?).

Sounded hokey to me but lo and behold there is no more moaning and no more rattle.

Now I am back to enjoying one of the quietest, smoothest cars I have ever owned.

cliffy1 · January 2001

I have that same noise on my Tundra truck which has ABS. I have yet to get an opinion as to what it is but it is consistent and the ABS system works perfectly.

cliffy1 · January 2001

That sounds very plausible. I sold new vehicles that had leaves, sticks and even rats nests positioned to create rattles and noises. If the problem is gone, I wouldn't worry about it.

rhpolk · February 2001

My one month old 2001 Avalon XLS is very nice car, extremely smooth and comfortable, good power and fuel economy. It's nice, but admittedly under whelming (I was considering other premium luxury sedans but settled for an Avalon).

My only real grief is the dash reflection problem. I drive at night on unlighted roads, I've tried reducing the illumination level, but that damn green reflection still hovers out there over the road like some ghostly apparition attempting to flee before me. Grr.

It's just a frustrating problem on an otherwise near perfect (if unremarkable) vehicle. Anyone know if Toyota is addressing this problem? I saw other posts hoping for a "TB"? Does that mean something like a "Toyota Service Bulletin" or similar? Meaning they're fixing it?

ingatetwo · February 2001

What's going on with these boards? I almost gave up on ever seeing anything on it again!

Toyota Avalon 2004 and earlier

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