Thanks for clearing me up. I am so disappointed from the ML depreciation that my wounds are healing. So, I guess you are saying I should not worry. I'll go back and look at the 6MT.
It is not WHERE it is made it is HOW it is made. The Japanese have brought their innovative manufacturing techniques with them when they set up factories in the US to avoid the stupid import quotas.
The problem with sirdarby's ML is that it was a poorly conceived car to begin with, and the Daimler/Chrysler blend is hurting reliability a LOT. Our neighbor just unloaded her ML and got a new MDX. She says it is a MUCH better car in every way.
It's obvious that US companies don't know how to make cars, but this doesn't hold for Japanese cars made in the USA. My Solara was made in Canada, and has been absolutely flawless for 5 years.
I've had this discussion on other boards when people have said that they wouldn't buy an American-built "foreign" car. Being from Ohio, I have to take a little offense. I had no trouble with my 2002 TL, which was designed and built in the US with mostly American parts. The only part that was problematic in the TL (not mine personally), the transmission, was built in Japan. So the Japanese manufacturing is certainly not perfect. I was happy enough that I traded up to a new U.S.-designed, Ohio-built 2004 TL six weeks ago, and expect the same experience (no problems) as before.
I want to send a card and lots of thanks to those hard-working Honda factory workers in Marysville and East Liberty thanking them for the car!!!
I just got the CONSUMER REPORTS preview issue, with the reliability data for the coming year. If you look at the Nissan line, there is a pattern of poor reliability among their USA built vehicles. The SENTRA, for example, is no longer recommeneded due to frequency of repairs, and several of Nissan's trucks and minivans are also off the recommended list. Each of the Nissan's with reliability problems was built in the USA. As for Mazda, the old 626 and MX6 (built in Flint) were less reliable than the models built in Japan.
But, looking at the Honda/Acura and Toyota/Lexus lines, there does not appear to be a wit of difference in reliability rates for the US and overseas manufacturing plants.
And since this an Acura board, it's worth noting that the Acura brand is THE most reliable car per the new Consumer Reports ranking. Lexus and Toyota were 4 percentage points back. I realize some will mention that JD Power shows different figures. I still trust CR over anyone else. CR isn't perfect, and any one of us might have a problematic car, but we are decreasing the liklihood by purchasing an Acura.
I'm loving the '04 TL. Did a car stereo back-to-back comparison with a friend's BMW 3 series today. The TL blows it away. The BMW's interior does feel/look richer and I think everyone agrees the car handles at least slightly better. His car is $11K more (330xi)and has 40 less HP.
The rattle that I have is in the steering wheel- probably the air bag. There's another rattle in the stereo area. I'll report back after it's looked at.
To all the '04 TL owners, please bang your steering wheel lightly with your hand and tell me if you hear a rattle. Going over bumps usually quarantees a rattle sound.
Oddly enough, my rattle coming from either the steering wheel or stereo console area seems to have dissapeared for now. Most likey it will come back. Please let me know what your dealer finds and how they fix it.
My first Honda was a 1990 Accord EX it was built in Japan and I've never had a better car in my life! The attention to detail was perfect, the wheel alignment was so precise that the original tires lasted 123,000 miles! At 260,000 miles it was still running strong with no problems and didn't even burn oil.
Then I bought a 1997 Accord EX built in Ohio. Still a great car compared to most, but the same quality just isn't there.
I've done a ton of research looking for a new car and I keep coming back to the new TL, I think it's a great car and you just can't beat Acura or Honda for quality and reliability.
Gregory28.....no rattle here. But keep in mind we've only had it for 24 hours now and only 105 miles on it thus far. No rattles anywhere that I've noticed. Even kept the stereo turned off (a difficult feat in itself!) to see if I could hear anything unusual and nothing but silence. I thought the Bose stereo on my Denali was a fantastic system (and it is) but damn...compared to the DVD-A system in the Acura it almost sounds like a transistor radio now! XM/CD quality is suberb and DVD-A is astounding! Just went out and got The Eagles / Hotel California on DVD-A and the new Michael McDonald / Motown CD and they are a lot of fun to listen to (esp McDonald...).
Also, got bluetooth up and running. Discovered I wasn't pressing the talk button with each answer to a prompt as I thought it was a "constant" on thing during setup. It's not. After each question the system asks you, you have to hit the talk button, wait for a beep and then respond. I've got the Nokia 3650 and let me tell you....having the Bluetooth integration is simply amazing! Sound quality both in the car and on the other end of the phone are very very clear. And with the NAV, you can pick a place like a restaurant and not only does it show you how to get there, but the phone number is embedded to the listing and you can hit the call button and it will automatically call the place you're looking for. Talk about an easy way to get reservations!
I'll update more as I discover other things.
Cheers all!
Only puzzling thing as I've said before....why didn't they build in an auto headlight on mode?
mine is a 2002 TL-S. Recently I have been noticing a very subtle rattle coming from somewhere in the steering wheel. It kind of sounds like the clicking of a Geiger radiation detector.
No rattle from the steering wheel here. Let us know what happens at the service dept. when you take your car in though. I'll keep an eye out for that rattle.
Have about 500 miles on the car. never heard a rattle. one thing that i noticed is that if i hear a noise it is very noticable, but this speaks to how quiet the cabin is. Thus, you can hear a pin drop. My point is that noises that might otherwise be masked by wind noise or other creaks and groans of other cars are going to be more prominent in this car because the cabin is so quiet. car is great except for the stupied alumnium strips. bluetooth is a great feature. use it everyday. I also enjoy the FWD. It has rained the past few days and i simply feel more confident with FWD despite the handling drawbacks often noted by the true "performance" drivers.
When I get an incoming call I can't see the who the call is from. Is it possible to have the caller id show on the screen? If it's possible how do I do it?
"So the new Inspire may be shipped from the US to Japan, but it's no longer the TL.
Follow that?"
Like an Accord can be a TSX and an Odyssey is a Odyssey but may be a LaGreat where there's another Odyssey which may or may not become an Acura unless you ride motorcycles or ATV's both of which are called Odysseys. Sounds like a plot to me!!
this must be something you need to activate on your cell phone. read the manual. my car shows the phone number of the person calling. this makes sense because the car is simply broadcasting the info. it is receiving from the cell phone. therefore, it must be a feature you need to activate on you cell phone. i have a sony ericsson t610.
njdriver2-how do you like the sony ericson t610 phone? I need to nuy a new phone and wanted the blutooth for my TL but the only phone I found that were bluetooth capable are the ericson and a seimens. My past experience with ericson was so bad I am reluctant to buy another. Was it hard to linc to the tl?
the t610 works fine. I don't really like the phone. it's too childish for me, but it has the handsfree protocol so that is all i really care about. i have siemens s55. that is my favorite phone. I can switch between the two because i have a SIM card. the acura website lists the bluetooth phones that work with the car's HFL system. You may want to start your search there. if you decide to buy a siemens, check with them that the phone supports a bluetooth handsfree protocol before you buy the phone. oh, my glove box is falling off. this car is starting to bug me.
I'm a first-time poster to these message boards and about an inch away from getting the '04 TL. I have been reading through all the posts and have a few things to add:
1. The navigation system. I've heard the complaints about the nav system, both from a readability/resolution standpoint and a voice-response standpoint. I test-drove one last weekend and had absolutely no trouble with reading the display or interfacing with it, and the dealer rep was able to issue some voice commands with no trouble. I tend to think in some cases the complaint is based on the expectation of the user that it's so smart that it nearly reads the driver's mind - in the end, it's still a computer system and requires you to "know the script" in order to interact with it. If that's too much work for someone, don't buy the nav package.
Also, regarding the cost of the package, on all of the cars I've been researching for the past year or so, any nav package you get is going to run $1,800-2,000. That's life, I guess. You could opt out of the nav package and buy your own dash-mounted Garmin GPS unit or the like with a full color display and you're still going to be dropping a lot of money, but then you won't get (unless you pay to have it installed) the constant satellite link as well as if you go with the surface-mounted exterior GPS receiver. (I own a small handheld Magellan unit which I have used for about five years and it's small, mono LCD display, and is not secured to the dash in any way, and has some trouble with the sky sightline because the receiver is housed within the unit.) Again, if two grand isn't your bag for something you're not keen on, then opt out. I'm a wannabe pilot and computer guy anyway, so the more instrumentation I have, the more I like it, even though I have to shell out two grand for it.
Also, in case you didn't know this, the TL uses a gyroscopic INS (inertial navigation system), similar to what is used on modern jets (fighters included, except that those are often ring-laser gyros) to keep its position on the globe. This is how the climate control system is able to keep track of the sun's position relative to the car for maximum environmental comfort.
2. ELS sound system. I have seen in a few places where the system mentions that it does not play MP3 and like-formatted files, but to the average user it is hard to tell what exactly they mean by this. For example, if they mean you cannot play an MP3 CD, that would make sense, but if you have an Apple iPod as I do (with either the FM transmitter or the casette deck adapter), I don't see why there would be any problem whatsoever playing MP3s that way. (If they don't, then there is a bigger problem for me than I expected.) If anyone has a portable MP3 player that has it hooked up to the 04 TL, I'd love to hear about it.
3. Car prices. So far the common themes I've heard everywhere about the price of the car is:
- You're getting a hell of a lot of car for the money (which I agree with) - Dealers are not offering any rebates, incentives, or cash back but seem to give you the accessories package without too much arm-twisting - Edmunds TMV for the car is actually higher than the MSRP - Dealers are pricing them right at MSRP - They are not going to budge much, if at all, on the sticker price
All of this being the case, I think I have done my absolute best to try and look for ways to get the sticker price down on a new 04 TL. Problem is, the TL is so loaded there's not different trim levels and options packages to dicker over. And, ultimately, they are not going to let the car go if they have a policy from their dealer management that says, "no bargaining, haggling, or negotiating". I would really love to know that I'm wrong about this but it looks like I'm going to be paying that same sticker price that everyone else is. Thoughts?
navi system works well as does the bluetooth. however, it does sometimes have trouble understanding a voice command. i have mostly found this to be a problem when the passenger is talking. in any event, i would say it works very well. the screen in my view is more than acceptable. i am not watching tv on it. you will not be able to bargin on price so give up on that quest. i got $500 off, plus floor mats and wheel locks. overall, the car is very nice. my only complaint is with the aluminium trim on the shifter console. dents easily if hit with the seat belt buckle. i made that unfortuate mistake. one the biggest selling points for me was that the back seat was very usable. the 3 series bmw is simply to small to be useful. good luck. oh, to respond to another posting...no i am not kidding, the dash is not fitted together properly and the glove box is falling off. yikes!!!
Has anyone seen an 04 TL with the body side molding accessory?
I picked up an accessory booklet at the dealershop and they show a white TL with white side molding...looks OK but I need to see it up close.
I like the side molding to protect the car from other people that apparently do not care when they open a car door against another car...but I also want it to look good.
Make sure you get that glovebox fixed which I'm sure they will be able to. I did hit the aluminum trim one time and realized that it would be very easy to dent since aluminum is soft. However, I was lucky and I did not mark the trim. Since that time I have warned anyone sitting in the front seat to be careful not to hit the trim putting on their seatbelt. Sorry to hear about your dents.
if you're getting the side moulding to protect against other car doors, then don't bother. It would offer very little protection in that respect. On our 02 Accord, we find the moulding is more effective protecting US when we open the doors and hit wall, poles, etc.
I'm not really worried about me hitting it but I don't know if I can prevent my kids from doing it. Worse yet, I would feel kind of stupid if I have to drive friends or clients around and first thing they get in I have to warn them to be careful not to dent my car! They'd think I'm some sort of anal/obsessive nut. (Well, ok, I am one but I don't want them to know it )
For pricing, see my post #195 in the Prices Paid forum. In short, I paid $31900 incl dest in SF Bay area. Other prices are listed as well from all over the country.
I've seen one car with the body molding, personally, I don't like it. As others have said, it doesn't really protect your car since it isn't a big wide strip. If you like the look of it, go for it .. .
One nice feature about the Navi (didn't purchase it however) is that it shows multiple lines on the XM Radio function. The std stereo has a limit on the number of characters on the ONE line of text. Kind of irritating to have to push a button everytime I want to know the artist and name of a song.
Good luck with your purchase!! I love my car (Anthracite/Ebony) and I've had lots of people stop and stare . . . they seemed to like the car as well!! ;-)
at temple vtec there are several postings where folks encountered the same unfortuate problem that experienced. i hope acura comes out with a fix, but i doubt. yes, i totally agree with you, for nearly $40k with taxes who wants to tell everyone, "don't hit my trim, please." that is insane. i suppose that is why i should have went german.
MP3 - You are right - it means that the disk player cannot play MP3 encoded audio disks. However the audio from your iPod would be analog when sent via a transmitter or cassette adapter, so it doesn't matter.
Pricing - Like the TSX, this car is such a bargain that getting a few dollars off is just like asking for added frosting on the cake. When the closest comparison car is $20K more, it seems a little silly to be worrying about getting an extra $500 off. That's about $15 as month over 3 years of payments, even less if you're leasing - about 1.5% of the car price. Isn't it worth $15 to be driving a new TL instead of a ???? for a few dollars less? However, getting the add-ons thrown in is a win-win situation. They would cost you a lot, but cost the dealer very little. You feel satisfied, and the dealer gets a sale.
Sorry to hear about the trim and now the glove box. Sounds like the glove box is an easy fix.
You're right that the cabin is incredibly quiet and one can hear a pin drop. I'm especially sensitive to other sounds because it interferes with the incredible detail in the music. It was a very windy day today and I couldn't hear one of the rattles. I had a paper bag with an old bottled water in it and something was creaking and I thought, "that plastic bottle is ruining my music experieince".
Does anyone listen to FM radio anymore who has XM?
If one is going to buy certain accesories anyway, and a deal has been made to sell the car for less than the dealer needs to sell it, something else has to give. One can easily spend over $500 on accessories which the dealer won't throw in if one is buying the car for $500 under MSRP as an example.
I certainly don't mean that one shouldn't haggle. Everyone should know what the true cost of purchasing the car is.
If you live in a large metropolitan area, you have no excuse to pay MSRP for the 04 TL. By contacting all the local Acura dealers' Internet Sales managers and pitting them against each other, you should be able to get $1,000 off MSRP. You have to be ready to walk out the door, of course. If you're desperate to buy the car right now, dealers will sense it and not budge off MSRP.
Try that in the Los Angeles area. The car market is so hot here that the huge numbers of dealers don't compensate for the demand. It is hard to get a TSX or TL for much under MSRP around here (although you should certainly be able to get SOME kind of discount on either car).
"Try that in the Los Angeles area. The car market is so hot here that the huge numbers of dealers don't compensate for the demand."
First of all, right now there is a very depressed demand for cars in California, because everyone is waiting for new "governor" to drop the registration fees. CA is one place in the country where one should get the best discounts right now.
Second, in general what you're saying makes no sense in the highly competitive US auto market. LA is no different from the rest of the country; it's not even close to being the most densely populated area. I find it hard to believe that there is a shortage of Acura dealerships. If it were the case, I'd go open a dealership there myself.
"I find it hard to believe that there is a shortage of Acura dealerships. If it were the case, I'd go open a dealership there myself."
Then go open a dealership.
I did exactly what you suggest when I bought my TSX and had little luck. I emailed all of the dealers. I eventually got a reasonable deal, but didn't come close to getting a $1000 off.
The problem here is not density of population it it is density of car ownership, and high value placed on upscale cars. Acura dealers out here don't have to discount much (which, btw, is not the same as suggesting that there is a "shortage of dealers").
As for your claim that demand for cars in CA is "depressed", what is the evidence to support that? At one point, the LA Times published some figures showing that sales were not down at all (other than typical seasonal variation) since the tax increase.
And, btw, the demand for cars across all makes doesn't necessarily equate to the demand for one specific make or model. There may well be an excess of all car models on dealer lots these days - that doesn't mean that the hottest vehicles are widely available for discounts.
But, if you don't believe me, I suggest a little experiment. Go to Carsdirect.com and price a TSX at an LA zipcode, a midwest zip code, and an eastern zipcode. The LA price is full MSRP, and the Midwestern price will have a reasonable discount.
dulnev is correct - the dealerships in CA are ghost towns. I stopped by my dealer on Monday night and they were just sitting around - they didn't sell any cars that day. SF Chron just published the fact that car sales were down 22%, yes 22%, in Oct compared to Sept. I've been at several Acura dealers and they are empty and hungry. Make a solid offer and be willing to walk - they will call. I got my TL in SFBay area for $31900 incl dest - there not a lot of dealers (not even one in SF) here as well, but if the car you want is on their lot, negotiate with them since they want to move it. Make it so they have to SELL you the car rather than you trying to BUY the car. BTW -if you go thru an auto buying store (credit union, etc.) you won't get a good deal at this point - my dealer showed me at least 5 deals that were at MSRP and my car store said the best they could do is 100-200 off MSRP. I told my dealer that it was great for them that people were willing to pay MSRP but my offer is my offer - take it or leave it.
BTW - it was on the news that Arnold is still planning on repealing the auto regis. tax and will give refunds. Once and if this happens, the dealerships will be buzzing and you may not get the deal you want for a few months, IMHO.
I'm not sure I believe that the situation up there is completely different than it is in Southern California. But, I'll email a few dealers and see what I come up with. I will probably buy another car this summer, and will move to make a deal quicker if prices are somehow down right now. But, I seriously doubt it.
Acura dealers here at not "ghost towns" at all. I was just at the dealer a few days ago. He had few 2004 TL's or TSXs on the lot. He actually had a waiting list for the TSX.
I do belive car sales are down since Sept. But, I doubt sales are down much versus last year.
Anybody bought a TL in southern California? How much can I expect to pay for a 04 TL with NAVI? Can you get protection package thrown in for free? I have to wait for my color combination to arrive.
Anybody else had problems with the Aluminum trim and glove box?
"#1787 rattle in the steering wheel by ruski Recently I have been noticing a very subtle rattle coming from somewhere in the steering wheel. It kind of sounds like the clicking of a Geiger radiation detector."
I'm willing to bet this is the black plastic piece that surrounds the guages. A friend of mine has an RL and it has the same piece and makes a sound just like you described. He gets annoyed and has to drive around holding it with his left hand. I noticed this is also on the new TL. I wonder if it'll start to rattle too.
As for the aluminum trim, it doesn't look very durable. And it costs over $80 to replace that piece, at least that's what I read over at Carpoint's consumer reviews.
Finally had our '02 TL/S bought back today. I'm glad this is over. I really hate it too in some ways because this car had a lot of potential. The dealership had at least 7 2001-2003 used TL.
I bought my 2004 TL at Motorcars Acura in October. I paid MSRP--I was the first to take delivery of a 2004 TL at the dealership, so I didn't even bother asking for a discount--and had the trunk tray and wheel locks added at no cost. This was my second Acura purchase from Motorcars, and I'd buy from them again as my particular salesmen were reasonably honest, a rarity in the business. I'm not sure you'd get a much better deal now. Not much choice among Acura dealers in Northeast Ohio--Only 3 dealers, one in Cleveland, one in Akron, one in Youngstown. A second Cleveland-area dealer is apparently supposed to open in the spring of 2004 according to Crain's, so maybe prices will soften then?
On all of my shopping trips, the lots were empty at the Acura dealers up here. On 11/3 I was one of 3 offers extended at one dealership that day - this was at 6:00pm . . . and I didn't buy.
There are VERY few TLs and almost no TSXs or MDXs available around LA compared to the other models on the lot. Regardless of the overall status of the car market, the Acura dealers are still calling the shots in LA with $500 off.
HOWEVER - next month will be a VERY good time to buy as the dealers try to pump the totals for the year.
Comments
Thanks for clearing me up. I am so disappointed from the ML depreciation that my wounds are healing. So, I guess you are saying I should not worry. I'll go back and look at the 6MT.
Thanks again.
The problem with sirdarby's ML is that it was a poorly conceived car to begin with, and the Daimler/Chrysler blend is hurting reliability a LOT. Our neighbor just unloaded her ML and got a new MDX. She says it is a MUCH better car in every way.
It's obvious that US companies don't know how to make cars, but this doesn't hold for Japanese cars made in the USA. My Solara was made in Canada, and has been absolutely flawless for 5 years.
I want to send a card and lots of thanks to those hard-working Honda factory workers in Marysville and East Liberty thanking them for the car!!!
But, looking at the Honda/Acura and Toyota/Lexus lines, there does not appear to be a wit of difference in reliability rates for the US and overseas manufacturing plants.
The rattle that I have is in the steering wheel- probably the air bag. There's another rattle in the stereo area. I'll report back after it's looked at.
To all the '04 TL owners, please bang your steering wheel lightly with your hand and tell me if you hear a rattle. Going over bumps usually quarantees a rattle sound.
Oddly enough, my rattle coming from either the steering wheel or stereo console area seems to have dissapeared for now. Most likey it will come back. Please let me know what your dealer finds and how they fix it.
Then I bought a 1997 Accord EX built in Ohio. Still a great car compared to most, but the same quality just isn't there.
I've done a ton of research looking for a new car and I keep coming back to the new TL, I think it's a great car and you just can't beat Acura or Honda for quality and reliability.
Also, got bluetooth up and running. Discovered I wasn't pressing the talk button with each answer to a prompt as I thought it was a "constant" on thing during setup. It's not. After each question the system asks you, you have to hit the talk button, wait for a beep and then respond. I've got the Nokia 3650 and let me tell you....having the Bluetooth integration is simply amazing! Sound quality both in the car and on the other end of the phone are very very clear. And with the NAV, you can pick a place like a restaurant and not only does it show you how to get there, but the phone number is embedded to the listing and you can hit the call button and it will automatically call the place you're looking for. Talk about an easy way to get reservations!
I'll update more as I discover other things.
Cheers all!
Only puzzling thing as I've said before....why didn't they build in an auto headlight on mode?
I have the Nokia 3650 cell phone...
Follow that?"
Like an Accord can be a TSX and an Odyssey is a Odyssey but may be a LaGreat where there's another Odyssey which may or may not become an Acura unless you ride motorcycles or ATV's both of which are called Odysseys. Sounds like a plot to me!!
I'm a first-time poster to these message boards and about an inch away from getting the '04 TL. I have been reading through all the posts and have a few things to add:
1. The navigation system. I've heard the complaints about the nav system, both from a readability/resolution standpoint and a voice-response standpoint. I test-drove one last weekend and had absolutely no trouble with reading the display or interfacing with it, and the dealer rep was able to issue some voice commands with no trouble. I tend to think in some cases the complaint is based on the expectation of the user that it's so smart that it nearly reads the driver's mind - in the end, it's still a computer system and requires you to "know the script" in order to interact with it. If that's too much work for someone, don't buy the nav package.
Also, regarding the cost of the package, on all of the cars I've been researching for the past year or so, any nav package you get is going to run $1,800-2,000. That's life, I guess. You could opt out of the nav package and buy your own dash-mounted Garmin GPS unit or the like with a full color display and you're still going to be dropping a lot of money, but then you won't get (unless you pay to have it installed) the constant satellite link as well as if you go with the surface-mounted exterior GPS receiver. (I own a small handheld Magellan unit which I have used for about five years and it's small, mono LCD display, and is not secured to the dash in any way, and has some trouble with the sky sightline because the receiver is housed within the unit.) Again, if two grand isn't your bag for something you're not keen on, then opt out. I'm a wannabe pilot and computer guy anyway, so the more instrumentation I have, the more I like it, even though I have to shell out two grand for it.
Also, in case you didn't know this, the TL uses a gyroscopic INS (inertial navigation system), similar to what is used on modern jets (fighters included, except that those are often ring-laser gyros) to keep its position on the globe. This is how the climate control system is able to keep track of the sun's position relative to the car for maximum environmental comfort.
2. ELS sound system. I have seen in a few places where the system mentions that it does not play MP3 and like-formatted files, but to the average user it is hard to tell what exactly they mean by this. For example, if they mean you cannot play an MP3 CD, that would make sense, but if you have an Apple iPod as I do (with either the FM transmitter or the casette deck adapter), I don't see why there would be any problem whatsoever playing MP3s that way. (If they don't, then there is a bigger problem for me than I expected.) If anyone has a portable MP3 player that has it hooked up to the 04 TL, I'd love to hear about it.
3. Car prices. So far the common themes I've heard everywhere about the price of the car is:
- You're getting a hell of a lot of car for the money (which I agree with)
- Dealers are not offering any rebates, incentives, or cash back but seem to give you the accessories package without too much arm-twisting
- Edmunds TMV for the car is actually higher than the MSRP
- Dealers are pricing them right at MSRP
- They are not going to budge much, if at all, on the sticker price
All of this being the case, I think I have done my absolute best to try and look for ways to get the sticker price down on a new 04 TL. Problem is, the TL is so loaded there's not different trim levels and options packages to dicker over. And, ultimately, they are not going to let the car go if they have a policy from their dealer management that says, "no bargaining, haggling, or negotiating". I would really love to know that I'm wrong about this but it looks like I'm going to be paying that same sticker price that everyone else is. Thoughts?
I picked up an accessory booklet at the dealershop and they show a white TL with white side molding...looks OK but I need to see it up close.
I like the side molding to protect the car from other people that apparently do not care when they open a car door against another car...but I also want it to look good.
For pricing, see my post #195 in the Prices Paid forum. In short, I paid $31900 incl dest in SF Bay area. Other prices are listed as well from all over the country.
I've seen one car with the body molding, personally, I don't like it. As others have said, it doesn't really protect your car since it isn't a big wide strip. If you like the look of it, go for it .. .
One nice feature about the Navi (didn't purchase it however) is that it shows multiple lines on the XM Radio function. The std stereo has a limit on the number of characters on the ONE line of text. Kind of irritating to have to push a button everytime I want to know the artist and name of a song.
Good luck with your purchase!! I love my car (Anthracite/Ebony) and I've had lots of people stop and stare . . . they seemed to like the car as well!! ;-)
sftroy
Pricing - Like the TSX, this car is such a bargain that getting a few dollars off is just like asking for added frosting on the cake. When the closest comparison car is $20K more, it seems a little silly to be worrying about getting an extra $500 off. That's about $15 as month over 3 years of payments, even less if you're leasing - about 1.5% of the car price. Isn't it worth $15 to be driving a new TL instead of a ???? for a few dollars less? However, getting the add-ons thrown in is a win-win situation. They would cost you a lot, but cost the dealer very little. You feel satisfied, and the dealer gets a sale.
You're right that the cabin is incredibly quiet and one can hear a pin drop. I'm especially sensitive to other sounds because it interferes with the incredible detail in the music. It was a very windy day today and I couldn't hear one of the rattles. I had a paper bag with an old bottled water in it and something was creaking and I thought, "that plastic bottle is ruining my music experieince".
Does anyone listen to FM radio anymore who has XM?
I certainly don't mean that one shouldn't haggle. Everyone should know what the true cost of purchasing the car is.
First of all, right now there is a very depressed demand for cars in California, because everyone is waiting for new "governor" to drop the registration fees. CA is one place in the country where one should get the best discounts right now.
Second, in general what you're saying makes no sense in the highly competitive US auto market. LA is no different from the rest of the country; it's not even close to being the most densely populated area. I find it hard to believe that there is a shortage of Acura dealerships. If it were the case, I'd go open a dealership there myself.
Then go open a dealership.
I did exactly what you suggest when I bought my TSX and had little luck. I emailed all of the dealers. I eventually got a reasonable deal, but didn't come close to getting a $1000 off.
The problem here is not density of population it it is density of car ownership, and high value placed on upscale cars. Acura dealers out here don't have to discount much (which, btw, is not the same as suggesting that there is a "shortage of dealers").
As for your claim that demand for cars in CA is "depressed", what is the evidence to support that? At one point, the LA Times published some figures showing that sales were not down at all (other than typical seasonal variation) since the tax increase.
And, btw, the demand for cars across all makes doesn't necessarily equate to the demand for one specific make or model. There may well be an excess of all car models on dealer lots these days - that doesn't mean that the hottest vehicles are widely available for discounts.
But, if you don't believe me, I suggest a little experiment. Go to Carsdirect.com and price a TSX at an LA zipcode, a midwest zip code, and an eastern zipcode. The LA price is full MSRP, and the Midwestern price will have a reasonable discount.
dulnev is correct - the dealerships in CA are ghost towns. I stopped by my dealer on Monday night and they were just sitting around - they didn't sell any cars that day. SF Chron just published the fact that car sales were down 22%, yes 22%, in Oct compared to Sept. I've been at several Acura dealers and they are empty and hungry. Make a solid offer and be willing to walk - they will call. I got my TL in SFBay area for $31900 incl dest - there not a lot of dealers (not even one in SF) here as well, but if the car you want is on their lot, negotiate with them since they want to move it. Make it so they have to SELL you the car rather than you trying to BUY the car. BTW -if you go thru an auto buying store (credit union, etc.) you won't get a good deal at this point - my dealer showed me at least 5 deals that were at MSRP and my car store said the best they could do is 100-200 off MSRP. I told my dealer that it was great for them that people were willing to pay MSRP but my offer is my offer - take it or leave it.
BTW - it was on the news that Arnold is still planning on repealing the auto regis. tax and will give refunds. Once and if this happens, the dealerships will be buzzing and you may not get the deal you want for a few months, IMHO.
Happy shopping!
Acura dealers here at not "ghost towns" at all. I was just at the dealer a few days ago. He had few 2004 TL's or TSXs on the lot. He actually had a waiting list for the TSX.
I do belive car sales are down since Sept. But, I doubt sales are down much versus last year.
Anybody else had problems with the Aluminum trim and glove box?
Thanks
I'm willing to bet this is the black plastic piece that surrounds the guages. A friend of mine has an RL and it has the same piece and makes a sound just like you described. He gets annoyed and has to drive around holding it with his left hand. I noticed this is also on the new TL. I wonder if it'll start to rattle too.
As for the aluminum trim, it doesn't look very durable. And it costs over $80 to replace that piece, at least that's what I read over at Carpoint's consumer reviews.
Good luck to everyone with you TL!
Dano
What SF dealership / sales person did you get this deal for $31900 (including DEST?). thanks
Here is some reading matl for you:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive- /2003/11/06/MNG2M2RGRM1.DTL
That pretty much sums up car buying activity in No. Cal.
Maybe you should take a trip to SF, spend the weekend shopping and drive your car back down Sunday night!! You might just get a deal . . .
HOWEVER - next month will be a VERY good time to buy as the dealers try to pump the totals for the year.