Older Acura TLs

95gt · April 2004

Actually by the sales america has no issues with FWD. I think you are confused. Car and driver wants RWD. Us in the real world with snow and ice like FWD.

pmf13 · April 2004

Get out a map of North America. Southern California doesn't look very big compared to the rest of it, does it? Now you have your answer.

kyfdx · April 2004

By this reasoning, more cars would be sold in Canada than the U.S. If the map reflected population, then Canada would be peeking out from under California's bloomers.

regards,
kyfdx

billyperks · April 2004

rear wheel drive Toyota, Nissan and Honda would be bankrupt by now.

Look at all the Camry's Accords, Atlimas and the list goes on out there, do you think these are rear wheel driven?

robertsmx · April 2004

If Americans wanted RWD (only), the Japanese would have delivered it or could have managed to show that there is more to driving than FWD or RWD. Oh, didnt it happen already?

raytl · April 2004

Just a brief response to your wish for RWD on the Acura TL. I live in a snow belt area, like much of the U.S., and require traction on snow and ice. FWD or AWD is perfect for this while RWD is limited, even with traction control. Note: AWD adds cost, complexity and weight. Many folks I know with a RWD car also have a winter vehicle for practical use. A RWD TL would probably be less successful for Acura and, in the final analysis, that probably drove their decision.

fastdriver · April 2004

Have you read these reviews" What are your reactions? Do you think one writer is being paid by one of the Big 3, was his car defective or did he have one too many?

http://info.detnews.com/autosconsumer/autoreviews/index.cfm?id=12- 246

http://www.freep.com/money/autoreviews/phelan22_20040422.htm

fastdriver

flipper6 · April 2004

The Phelan review was discussed a few pages back starting with #5716 and #5723 and several more. General conclusion is there is little merit to the review.

fastdriver · April 2004

flipper6-

Thanks. I didn't know because I'm not a regular visitor here. When I read them today, I knew I had to post them. I have NEVER seen a review on the TL like the 2nd one.

I have a CL-S and know how that handles. I figured that the new TL had to be at least as good, if not better!

fastdriver

waltercat · April 2004

I bought my Acura at Curry Acura in Scarsdale, NY and almost always have it serviced at Curry Honda in Yorktown Heights, NY. I believe it's the same Curry that operates dealerships in Mass and elsewhere. Both dealerships have been exemplary. If they offer a warranty, I'd guess it's legitimate.

habitat1 · April 2004

While I definitely don't support the southern California view of the world, I don't think the question of the appropriateness of FWD is without merit. And I've gone on record as indicating that I am prepared to buy the car, FWD notwithstanding.

Comparing the current TL to the Accord, Camry and other successful FWD cars is probably NOT what Acura wants anyone to do. Whereas Toyota, Honda and Nissan may have achieved past success in selling highly dependable, plain vanilla, good value but not luxurious cars, Acura appears to be aiming higher than a luxo-Accord.

Lexus has had no difficulty achieving significant success with its RWD cars; Infiniti has been less successful for other reasons, but their greatest success to date is probably the G35. I have previously questioned Acura as being the least "premium" of the premium Japanese brands, not becasue they don't make great cars, but because they seem to make just slightly greater Hondas, rather than truly set themselves above their "standard" sibling.

With 270 horsepower, 6-speed, sport suspension, Brembo brakes, etc., the decision to stick with FWD is worhty of questioning. Had they gone to RWD, I'm sure they would have lost a few northerner's that believe FWD is the only way to handle snow. However, Acura already provides limited slip, vehicle skid control and a variety of other advancements that would make 2004 RWD competitive with pre-2000 FWD. And when we have a big snowstorm in DC, I'm not trying to plow through it with my Maxima; I hop in our SUV.

Acura could have positioned the TL to be a very serious contender to the 330i, instead they chose to make it an extraordinarlily attractive, upscale alternative to the Accord and Maxima. Tough choice either way you look at it.

saugatak · April 2004

if you look at the thread on "Acura ready to play with the big boys" this idea was discussed in great length.

the general conclusion was that acura would have to take a big hit economically to develop RWD luxury car. you can knock the TL for being a gussied up Accord, but one of the benefits is that with platform sharing and similar/shared parts, Honda can achieve scale economies and drive the price of the TL down.

in contrast, a RWD TL would have no corresponding downversion RWD Accord to help amortize development costs.

with the SH-AWD RL, it looks like Acura's strategy is going to be to stick with the FWD platform and add on the SH-AWD to the Acura lineup to make it more exclusive and not put it on Honda lineup.

whether this strategy is correct will depend upon how good SH-AWD is. if it's as good as advertised, then Acura will have AWD (as opposed to pure FWD) handling and can differentiate itself from the masses of RWD cars.

if SH-AWD sucks, then Acura would have been better off following the me-too RWD strategy of BMW, MB, Lexus, Infiniti, Cadillac, Chrysler, etc.

i personally would have loved to see Acura develop a RWD TL w/ a straight 6 b/c and use that RWD platform for a variety of cars (as Nissan as done with its FM platform) it would have been a BMW killer, but it would have been a questionable business decision.

robertsmx · April 2004

If SH-AWD delivers what it promises to, FWD vs RWD argument would be a mute point. Using AWD would be a smarter move from nearly every aspect for the business, and the car's appeal than the "me too" idea.

habitat1 · April 2004

I promise to try not beat this issue dead, but I do not think "Super Handling" AWD will make RWD moot for a sport sedan. Ever. It adds weight and most AWD variants of FWD cars are still front heavy.

I think anyone looking for a sports sedan needs to accept that a RWD 5-series probably won't do as well in the snow and ice as a FWD or AWD TL or RL. Likewise, anyone wanting FWD or AWD versitility will likely need to accept that they won't get 5-series handling and balance. The 530i sport, by the way, weighs a few pounds less than the FWD Acura TL.

A few months ago, I had a friend who owns an Audi TT quatro tell me how wonderfully balanced the car is and how well it handled. Then I gave him a spin in my 600 lb lighter S2000. He now knows what nimble and balanced really mean. Although I wouldn't want to race him in a snowstorm.

Enough, I'll stop.

1violinist · April 2004

A colleague of mine is thinking about getting a TL, but he is concerned about the poor EL42 tires. We were discussing a few questions:

1) Is it better to try to negotiate with Acura dealer to have the tires replaced or to contact Firestone/Bridgestone for an exchange?
2) What is the best alternative tire for the TL?

His driving style is average. He is looking for a tire with a quiet, comfortable ride; a long tread life; and a decent handling. He lives in SoCal, so there's no snow and not so much rain. I suggested Turanza LS-Z. What do you guys think? I thought since it's from the same tire manufacturere it may be easier to exchange. What would be a fair cost for the upgrade? Inputs would be much appreciated!

habitat1 · April 2004

I asked the same question a while back and kahuna gave an excellent suggestion of Bridgestone Potenza RE750's. I was consdiering Pole Postion S03's. Here's his post:

"Actually, the S03 Pole Positions are jumping up a class and are considered maximum performance summer tires (overkill IMO). If you stick with ultra performance summer tires (more than adequate for the TL), the Bridgestone Potenza RE750s are a better choice as they have a much higher tread wear rating (340 vs. 220), and cost much less ($152 vs. $182)".

As for trading in, I think you need to check with your local tire shop. Mine offered to give a credit of about $50 per tire for the OEM's on what I would be purchasing, so long as I traded them within a few hundred miles.

kennyg5 · April 2004

I whole-heartedly agree with your observation. Having the TL share some of the Accord's parts help bring the cost down and that the cost of developing a RWD will drive up TL's price, if not also drive away those buyers who live in the snowbelt.

Honda/Acura has made a good business decision in its design and development of the 04 TL, the most notable of which is keeping with its tradition of providing great value to those buyers who want a near luxury performance sedans.

humayunkhan1 · April 2004

Would somebody please suggest a product for repairing fine scratches from the exterior paint.
I have a black TL, Navi/Auto which over the last few weeks since I have bought had collected minor but apparent scratches on the hood and doors.
There used to be a product called color match, this was atleast 8 or 10 years ago. You would just rub it on the scratch and wipe it with a cloth and the scratch would vanish. I have looked for it but couldnt find it. Is there anything else which is simple to use which anbody can suggest or recommend?
P.S. I have ordered a product called scratch away from the internet it works on the same principle as color match but this product is colorless. I will recieve it in 2-3 weeks! Does anybody have any experience with it?
Appreciate your time and help.

greathanny · April 2004

Does anyone know which month Acura will release its 2005 TL for sale?

jfgobraves · April 2004

I was told before on this board that in the trunk there are rca inputs for the xm radio, but I can't seem to find them any hints on where they are located?
Also on a side not has anyone remove the non navi factory radio? And if you have do you have any tips to offer.

dtate99 · April 2004

I've heard a release date of October speculated on these boards. Can't confirm that, however.

automophile · April 2004

I have heard that the XM receiver is in the top right section of of the trunk, behind the lining. It has RCA Line outs. Your installer can install an electronic switch there to allow the addition of another sound source such as a CD player in the trunk.

igiban · April 2004

Wonder if TL owners answered JD Power's survey not all too positively? The 2004 JDP IQS has Acura dropped quite a bit to 117 problems per 100 cars. Lexus is #1 with 87, and there're 13 makers after Lexus until it reaches Acura, who barely stays above average of 119. I recalled in the past Acura's was typically around 5th or 6th. Honda is 99 enough for the 4th overall and 1st on non-luxury brand. What's new for Acura in 2004? TSX and TL right? And I know JDP actually got good ranking on TSX already so it's to be TL? This IQS ranking comes from actual owners and boy looks like some unhappy TL campers are really out there.

habitat1 · May 2004

I appreciate any objective sources of information, so I don't want to discredit JDS. However, the rankings according to JDS's IQS survey are, in some cases, the opposite of Consumer Reports rankings. Unfortunately, I don't have them here to report, but Acura was #1 above Lexus and Cadillac was near the very bottom of the pack #30+/- out of 34.

For SUV's, I've contemplated a Pilot, MDX, XC90, GX470 among others. Perhaps if the initial quality survey was done before a new owner turned the key on, the Volvo would rate higher than the Acura. But look at the number of complaints on the Volvo board and, based upon our own surveying of friends, family and associates, the Volvo, albeit a better looking vehicle, is nowhere near the Acura in terms of reliability and hassle free driving.

Take any one source of information as a data point, not a conclusion.

wr_g · May 2004

wculbert,

Have you had any success with Verizon and Bluetooth? If I understand your message, as a Verizon customer, the Bluetooth feature will not function on the 2004 TL even if I get a Bluetooth enabled phone. Is this the case? Any 2004 TL owners that use Verizon and are able to use the Bluetooth feature in the car?

psmith2587 · May 2004

WHAT ARE TL'S GOING FOR IN MICHIGAN- NON NAV

igiban · May 2004

All I know is after I got my ES last year I did receive a JDP survey, but never did I receive a CR survey. The IQS is based on the first 90 days ownership, and is from owners themselves. The thing is Acura had ranked much better b4 2004, and with TSX rated as JDP 2004's top entry lux model (based on user input I presume) you can't help but think that it's the TL (the other 2004 change on Acura's) that's ruining the party.

Yes some big surprises are on the list, Caddie ranked 2nd and Jaguar 3rd? Many US makers, and even Hyundai, rank better than some Japanese! That's not the case at all in the past years' survey, but since it's from users input you can't just discredit them lightly. One other blow to Acura is while Lexus ranks better than Toyota, and Infinity much better than Nissan (as both expected), it's the Honda that's ranked much better than Acura! So much for the upper division of Honda! This is a major surpirse to me.

kenm8 · May 2004

How are 2004 TLs doing relative to quality  initial and ongoing?

My wifes car with 13K mi has had two issues so far. One had to do with the car pulling to left just as soon as she bought it last Oct. Dealer service manager checked and verified that alignment was correct and did not need adjustment. It was apparently a front tire causing the problem. Manager then said that the belts in the Turanza tire (on the front) were not set(?) and rotated the tires. I believe he criss-crossed them to change direction of rotation. He said that if this is done when tires are still new, that offending tire will take proper set and will be OK. This remains to be seen. The car then tracked true and straight. Wife then switched to another set of wheels/Dunlop snow tires for last winter. The car tracked true and straight with the Dunlops. Turanzas are back on, but mileage is not due yet to rotate the offending tire from rear to front. I will find out in near future if it is true that belts did indeed take a new/proper set. I know that this is not the Edmunds tire post, but any tire experts/TL owners out there that can comment on this 'set' issue?

As a side issue, wife is a spirited driver and does not care for Turanzas, but will stick it out with them until worn and new tires are needed.

The other issue is minor, but will probably be difficult to find. There is a very tiny rattle that can sometimes be heard coming from the center of dashboard perhaps under the windshield.

habitat1 · May 2004

I wouldn't be surprised if the 2004 MDX contributed to Acura's decline more than the TL. There are quite a few complaints regarding the MDX having a "humming" noise at cruising speed on the highway. Apparantly a gremlin that occurred when they modified the exhaust system to up the power in 2004.

However, once again, I do not mean to discredit JD Powers. But look at the survey results yourself. The difference betwee the worlds best Lexus at 87 problems per 100 vehicles and the worlds worst Hummer at 173 complaints per 100 vehicles is barely a factor of two. If the survey fit my general impression of what best to worst is in reality, I would have expected the best to achieve 10% or less of the problems of the worst. If 173 problems per 100 vehicles really is the crappiest initial quality out there, I would expect Lexus execs to be outraged that they couldn't get theirs down to less than 20. Further 20 of the middle 37 nameplates ranked fall between 100 and 133 problems per 100 vehicles; hardly a difference putting much credibility into.

I happen to own and run a company and we strive to be the best at what we do. I would certainly consider only half as many customer complaints as our worst competitor a pitiful failure.

P.S. Shortly after buying an S2000 back in late 2001, a roof latch broke. Honda shipped it express to my dealership, they scheduled an evening appointment for me to come in and the Honda regional rep called me to make sure I was happy. I didn't report this problem on the JDP survey I got. In the 2.5 years since, nothing but oil changes. Our Isuzu Trooper, has had a $6,000 engine blow up, air conditioner compressor failure and numerous other items in under 70,000 miles. Yet no problems in the first 90 days. My Nissan Maxima has been the best high mileage car we've ever owned, not needing a repair of any kind until 100,000 miles and at 152k it looks and runs 10 times better than our newer Trooper. Yet the Maxima had an initial dash rattle that cropped up in the first 90 days and was corrected. So my long term experience is dramatically different than an "initial quality" survey would ever suggest.

igiban · May 2004

You got to take a few years' surveys to put thing in perspective. That's just what's happened to the best and worst on new cars 'during the first 90 days' of ownership. I guess nowadays even the worst new car is made ok, and even the best in 2004, the Lexus SC, still has 43 problems per 100 cars. I hope there's such study on how the IQS correlates to long term reliability. I'd not be surprised that it gets 'extended' proportionally. My point is simple: Acura's falling hard this year and I am wondering why. I read some press release on Honda after the IQS and all they now are singing is their Honda being the #1 on non-lux brand, and saying nothing about Acura! I do hope Acura straights things out this year.

danny1878 · May 2004

Basically I agree with both comments on JDP surveys. As long as there isnt any major problem that might put people in danger, I'm fine with it. Unpredicted problems such as transmission is more dangerous.

I got 2 problems only which are tire and seat memory lost (no rattle/squeaks) and I havent received any JDP survey yet. I know those two have been acknowledged by acura. If 100 participants like me fill out the survey, then you'd get 200 problems per 100 cars, right? let alone MDX owners.

Now it seems the tire issue is gone(for cars manufactured after 04/04) and they also have a new module for seat memory.

A friend of mine who has 2001 GSR told me that integra's stock tire was bad also(almost every integra tire), but so far the car runs fine.

carguy58 · May 2004

I don't put alot of stock into a survey like that. Its only a 90 day survey. I think its big for a company like Hyundai to be near Toyota in a survey in terms of problems per cars. I wouldn't make too much of a big deal about that survey.

My Acura has no problems after 2 and a half years of ownership. I am pretty happy with my car overall.

I think what brings the TL's cores is the darn tire problem that people are complaining about on these boards.

The 2001 Civic had complaints in its first year and Honda took care of that. Honda also had complaints about rattling with the 03 Accord and it looks like they have taken care of that. I expect Honda to take care of this tire problem they are having with the TL with the 05 TL's.

kenm8 · May 2004

My wife traded in her 01 TL for an 04 TL last Oct. The 01 was bullitt-proof over 71K mi. The transmission was fine.

mike394 · May 2004

Went to the dealer fri.Pickup Anthracite,ebony
at,navi,decklid,prot.34400.Chgoland.Mon.or tue.
Thought this was a fair deal.

1violinist · May 2004

Does the TL come with a full size alloy wheel for the spare? EL42 tire or a different type?

igiban · May 2004

A donut type spare tire: One thing I don't like about TL.

95gt · May 2004

I can't remember the last car i had with a full size spare (think it was a camry). One major problem with all these huge wheels they put on cars now. Ah well.

habitat1 · May 2004

A friend's 540i sport has a full size 18" spare tire in the trunk that came standard. It fits fine and the trunk floor is flat.

The MDX has a mini-spare hanging below the vehicle. The sales person tried to tell me that a full size wouldn't fit. I pointed out to him that once you change a flat, the flat goes in the very same place as the spare was. Then he tried to say it reduces weight and enhances fuel effiency. Upon which I pointed out to him that the difference in weight - approximately 10 lbs - was about 10% of the difference in our respective body weights (I'm 170; this rather chubby guy was at least 270).

There is one reason, and one reason alone, why a sedan or SUV has a compact spare. Cost cutting by the manufacturer. I can accept that; I just don't appreciate getting a line of BS from an overweight salesperson about the fuel efficiency of a 4,500 lb SUV.

saugatak · May 2004

I agree with you, but what does the salesman's weight have to do with his BS? Would it have been more acceptable to you if he'd been thin?

flipper6 · May 2004

I have not looked in the trunk to see if my 2004 TL will accomodate a full size spare tire. I can see where a car might be designed to not allow for storage of a full size spare. I believe the Corvette and some other cars come with "run flat tires" partly because it is not practical to carry a full size spare. If carrying a full size spare means the car has to be designed with a smaller trunk then I opt for the donut. Most of my driving is done on roads where it is too dangerous to change a flat tire.
In the last 15 years I used a full size spare one time (Camry) and a donut one time (Maxima). Years ago I would carry a tool box with me for the unexpected. I no longer do that either. If you look at very old cars, they often carried two spares. Now if I get a flat tire I'll probably regret having the donut. But then again if some hose clamp loosens up on the car, I will probably regret not carrying a tool box anymore.

robertsmx · May 2004

I dont mind a donut. If my regular tires had 30K miles on them, and the spare had none, I would prefer to get the spare back in the trunk after the regular tire it replaced temporarily is fixed. While leaving the spare on forever may be tempting.

igiban · May 2004

Having a full spare means that you don't have to rush to replace it on the same day when you get a flat. Of course you'd be also tempting to just use the spare 'for a while'. I don't think that's why Acura/Honda decided not to put a full spare tho!

kyfdx · May 2004

I think habitat's point was: Why would they worry about the 10# from the spare when different drivers weights often account for more than that.. the example being the 100# differential between him and the salesman..

My question is: Why ask a saleman? They are treasure troves of useless and/or incorrect information.

regards,
kyfdx

akirby · May 2004

Sometimes weight matters for CAFE. Lincoln deleted the rear headrests on the LS in 99 (along with the full size spare, headrest and subwoofers on sport models), so that shows you how sensitive it can be if you're close to a weight threshold.

robertsmx · May 2004

igiban,

I think so too. I dont understand the lighter weight logic either. If I had a flat, all I end up doing is exchanging the place between the regular (goes in the trunk) and the spare. All I lose is air pressure, and just the weight associated with that volume of air lost.

I doubt manufacturers necessarily try to put a donut to force customers out of using the fresh spare for prolonged time with worn out regular tires, or may be they do (due to potential safety related lawsuits).

igiban · May 2004

It's really just cost saving. I don't mind if the saving is passed to us, but anyone thinks that's the case?

kyfdx · May 2004

In any competitive market, cost savings eventually benefit the consumer.

I'm sure it is a combination of space, weight, and cost savings. Although, space might not be a consideration in this case.

Just be glad they have the donut, so you don't have to use runflat tires.

regards,
kyfdx

nw1997 · May 2004

When we picked up our Accord we asked why doesn't the Accord's have full size spare. The sales man, being a retired police officer who's job was to investigate vehicle accidents, stated the following. Nearly every time there was a rear end collision to another vehicle the occupants that sat in the rear seats were injured severely or killed due to the full size spare coming up from the trunk and entering into the cabin causing back/spinal and death. He explained that with the semi-small wheel/tire/donut that comes with the Accord will actually flip up into the trunk and not enter into the cabin with a rear end collision. The dealership actually would not sell a customer the full size rim/tire when they take delivery of a new vehicle.

robertsmx · May 2004

I don't believe in "cost cutting" theory either. It wouldn't take much for any automaker to provide a full size spare instead of a donut, and whatever the expense may be, it can be easily included into the price tag. $100 in a car that has an MSRP of $34-36K isn't a big deal. Some automakers charge almost as much more on destination charge, compared to others.

akirby · May 2004

Mfrs eliminate light bulbs under the hood and in the glove compartment to save money. Look at it this way: if the cost difference is only $50 per car that doesn't sound like much but across the board you could be talking about 1 million vehicles per year. That's $50M and that is not chump change.

Yes, they will do something like that to save money.

Older Acura TLs

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