I believe that there was a 500 Manufacture to dealer incentive that ended 11/30. Carsdirect.com prices on the Elantra all went up $500 on 12/1. Carsdirect.com even stated that there was a dealer incentive, but did not list the price. I was trying to take advantage of this deal in bargaining, but our local dealer would not even give me a call back on an offer. I guess the economy is just too good for automobile dealers (thats a joke)! I suspected that there was some kind of dealer incentive and was surprised that Edmunds never had it listed.
Edmunds' TMV does not include rebates. Even so, I think that the TMV for new cars can be on the high side, at least in my area. For example, the TMV for a base Elantra GLS in my area is $12,237, and I've seen ads for $10,990 recently, including this weekend. Another dealer offered a base GLS with automatic for $11,999, while the TMV is $13,070.
i wondered about an incentive, but it was not listed by Edmunds and I too saw it on cars direct but thought it must be a mistake since it had no value listed. I would have subtracted that amount had it been listed and then i would have been $200 lower than tmv
I believe that I was responding to the statement about why dealers push in stock inventory so hard. If that was not your post, my apologies. I thought I was merely stating the reason I thought they did.
My views have totally changed about Hyundai, now that the Elantra has come out. It really has proven to be a nice entry-level ride, and has good reviews by automotive journalists and owners alike. Way to go, Hyundai!
I am also pretty sure that there is a $500 dealer incentive on the 2002 Elantra. It disappeared from carsdirect on 12/1, but it is back now. It doesn't flat out say that it is $500, but when the price magically goes down by $500 as soon as they add it to the site, then one can figure it out. Don't let that dealer rob you!
Sorry it took so long to get back to this. Csandte, I am not exactly sure where you are going with this? Sure Nissan now as an optional V6 in the Altima (and a very potent inline 2.5 Liter I4 to boot) but the Altima is decidedly not in the same class as the Elantra; in fact I think it is bigger than the Sonata. Also Subaru reserves the H6 for the top end Outback line; yes they have a 227hp Turbo for the Impreza WRX, but that is based off of their Impreza Ralley car (Which unlike American Nascar has to actually be based off the car it looks like), I don't think Hyundai has an Elantra Ralley Car (could be wrong though). Seriously, I think with the Sonota being offered with a V6 and soon the Tiburon, that Hyundai has plenty of cars with more oomph for people that need them.
I am sure it would be front-end heavy. I have heard some people complain that the VW Jetta VR6s are front-end heavy, that's why I opted for the turbo engine (that, and a better reliabilty record on the turbo because it's an Audi motor). Anyway, I am sure it would be front end heavy. The Elantra and Jetta are about the same size too, so it more than likely would.
Regarding the previous post about oomph, this was started because someone suggested a sportier GT "limited edition" type model, not because someone was looking for more power.
This is somewhat off topic, but since the subject of salesmen was brought up, I wanted to share this story.
You can now rent Toyotas at certain Toyota dealers. My roommate is interested in an automatic Echo and since I have a manual, I thought I would e-mail all the Toyota dealers in the area to see if they rent Echoes.
I was very specific in my email about why I was writing and stating that a 10 to 30 minute test drive would not do.
One dealership's response was they did not rent Echoes, but that if we came to a deal and did the paperwork, my roommate would be more than welcome to take the Echo out for longer than 30 minutes.
Hello? If she does the deal and signs the paperwork, she would own the Echo. I would hope the dealership would let her drive her car for more than 30 minutes.
One thing I found hilariously funny is that Edmunds had to tighten their gear shift knob and now it no longer lines up north and south, but they don't consider it a problem.
If this happened in any car I drove, I would consider it a problem.
Hyundai is "squeezing" the 2.7L V6 into the 2003 Tiburon, which I think shares the Elantra platform. So if the Tiburon can take the weight of the V6, why not the Elantra? Think of it... a V6-powered compact that can compete with the Jetta V6 for $5000 less.
If they are the drivers of the car and don't consider it a problem for them, then it's not a problem. Maybe it's not a problem to them because the knob is round, so the only "lining up" that is noticeable is the metal shift-pattern button on top. Hopefully it's aligned now such that it's oriented towards the driver--maybe it is and they actually prefer it that way, who knows.
I don't know what they are doing to that Elantra, but I've never had to tighten a gear shift knob on any car I've owned, including my Elantra, and I've run some of them for as much as 80,000 miles over 8 years. They did mention that they give their long-term testers hard use.
Well if a child can work something loose, that would tell me it's not very tight anyway. I don't drive stick, so I don't know how tight their knobs are on the shifters. But maybe it just came loose from normal vibration/wear. That happens sometimes. At least it was only the shift knob and not something major in the car.
I understand that they don't consider it a problem. My point is that I would consider it a problem and was just wondering how many other people would consider it a problem.
FWIW, my Echo is a 2001 and it just passed 19,000 miles. My knob is not loose and still lines up the way it did when I first bought the car back on December 29th of last year.
Let me try again. I figure one of the test drivers unscrewed the knob. Then when they screwed it back on they over screwed it. So now they have a knob that doesn't line up. It's just not clear this is Hyundai's fault at all, so they wrote it up in that ambiguous way. My point was not that the knob could be taken off by a child, but that it was childish to take it off.
My oh my, go away for a few days and it's amazing how the conversation changes.
Out of curiosity, does the shift knob on the manual Elantra actually screw on (I assume it must, but you never know)?
I had a 91 Isuzu where the shift knob could be turned from side to side (albeit it did take some effort), so as it got slightly misaligned over time, I could line it up again. It didn't actually "screw" on.
Most other sticks I've driven have had similar knobs.
In the event the Elantra's shift knob actually screws on, perhaps Hyundai should have a torque specification for it to prevent overtightening. There's nothing worse than a permanently misaligned knob IMO.
Interesting that Chrysler is recalling its vehicles and Hyundai is not...
Being a Chrysler owner, I'm glad to see that Chrysler is doing the right thing! Being a Hyundai owner, I am disappointed to see that Hyundai is NOT doing the right thing!
I guess they figure we've all forgotten about it by now...
In all fairness, this has been my only complaint with Hyundai. However, it will remain a nagging issue with me until they respond appropriately to this problem.
Before you go praising Chrysler, be advised they don't always do the "right" thing. The 98-01 Ram pickup had a late deploying driver's airbag that contributed to head and neck injuries and a seat track that broke loose. No recalls were ever done to fix these problems. Also, the 01 Dodge Grand Caravan has a high likelihood of gas leaks in the offset-impact, which prompted Chrysler to redesign the fuel pump housing, but they did not recall the bad 01 models.
I am not praising Chrysler and I never suggested that they always do the "right" thing. I just commented on the fact that, this time, they recalled and Hyundai didn't, under similar circumstances.
When an auto manufacturer does the "right" thing, I like to acknowledge it, because I feel that we, as customers, deserve that from them.
Or maybe Hyundai is still figuring out how to fix the problem...
Don't forget that the Elantra did quite well in the NHTSA front and side impact tests, so I really don't think it's an unsafe car. Sure, the offset test the IIHS does is more severe, but I expect the Elantra to pass it with an Acceptable rating (like the old model did) or higher once they figure out the air bag and seat track problems. Other cars (including other current Hyundai models) have had no problem passing this offset crash test, and since the Elantra, as mentioned a while back on this board, is a definite "make it or break it" car for Hyundai, they really want to try to get it as right as possible. So, give it some more time... and hopefully they'll have a fix.
ANY air bag system can fail to work properly like the one on the Elantra in the IIHS test. Does the recall work eliminate the possibility of late deployment completely? NO, IT DOES NOT. It merely REDUCES the chance of late deployment resulting from ONE potential cause identified. Can the sensor in the Jeep fail AFTER the modification? YES, IT CAN.
BTW Elantra doesn't have a satellite frontal impact sensor near the crumple zone area; the sensor is built into the circuit board of the air bag computer module, which is located around the center console INSIDE the car, for much more reliable operation, so there's ZERO probability of deformed front-end parts interfering with sensing circuit.
I wonder if the airbags deployed late in the NHTSA test, but it went undetected until the higher speed test done by the IIHS.
What I am saying is perhaps the airbags deploy fast enough for crashes 35mph and slower, but for crashes fast than that, the airbags aren't fast enough.
The driver's front air bag proved it was fast enough for the 40 mph IIHS offset test by deploying as expected in the first test run. It has not yet been determined, or at least not reported, why the airbag deployed late in the other two test runs. Without more information, our speculating as to why the bags deployed late or wondering if it is "fast enough" for the NHTSA tests is an exercise in futility, IMO.
I have been doing some research about the Hyundai 10 years warranty and I found a good source to back up my belief that Hyundai has a sound strategy and probably, on the long run, this won’t cost that much to the Korean manufacturer and the company probably is going to stand by its customers.
Going to Carpoint.com you can find the reliability report for Hyundays, (and for all brands obviously!) I checked the Elantra report, for all models since 1992. The whole reliability report for the Elantra is 5/5 for all models since 1992. There are just two warnings for the initial models: one about the four cylinder engine, that could have a timing belt (TB) failure, but this failure, I do consider, in most of the cases could be attributed to a lack of adequate maintenance since the TB should be changed around every 60,000 km. (and is not only a problem of Hyundai, but one of most of modern cars, that use the plastic belt). The other one is a warning about the air conditioning refrigerant, which also was used in most of the other brands a that time (the infamous CFC R12). Besides that, the general qualification for the 1992, is that the Elantra is a very reliable car for: Transmission & Driveline Infrequent problems reported, all with low repair costs. Steering & Suspension Infrequent problems reported, all with low repair costs. Brakes Infrequent problems reported, all with low repair costs. Starting & Charging Infrequent problems reported, all with low repair costs. Accessories Infrequent problems reported, all with low repair costs.
Which means that people who bought a model in 1992, still in 2001 (9 years later) have a very reliable Hyundai.
Probably this reflects why Hyundai adopted the 10 years warranty strategy and also it backs up the concept that Hyundai is sure about what is selling.
There is no correlation between warranty length and vehicle longevity/quality (contrary to popular belief). Rather, the length of a car warranty is mainly influenced by buyer sentiment regarding a vehicle's reliability (high lux models excluded).
Recall which automobile had the longest factory warranty back in 1984? Believe it or not, it was the Renault Alliance. And the reason for this *obviously* wasn't because it was a quality piece of work, but rather, consumers viewed anything design from Renault as a POS. The only way American Motors could bring new buyers into the showroom was by convincing them [with an impressive warranty] that the new Renaults were nothing like the old Renaults.
And perhaps you recall the 7/70 powertrain Chrysler touted in the early 90's. Did they do it because their powertrains were truly the best? Not at all. They did it because people were becoming deathly afraid of their electronically controlled 4-spd automatic transmissions. The warranty provided some piece of mind.
Today, Kia (now owned by Hyundai) also sports America's Longest Warranty, yet its 2001 4 vehicle lineup took 4 of the last 6 places on JD Power's Initial Quality Survey.
And two of the most reliable new car makes on the road have relatively short warranties (Honda and Toyota) - because people who buy them do not fear encountering reliability problems as those vehicles age.
Hyundai came out with "America's Longest Warranty" because it wanted to shake the stigma of being perceived as "America's Most Unreliable Make." And despite the fact that the quality of their automobiles has drastically improved over the last decade, buyer perceptions haven't caught up. If you doubt me, tell a stranger you just bought a new Hyundai and gauge their reaction.
And don't forget about the the biggest reason automakers trying to improve their quality come out with industry leading warranties: internal quality figures are generated by warranty claims. When cars are out of warranty, it's more difficult for manufacturers to trace what problem areas they need to work on to improve their quality index.
Lastly, and this is a bit off subject, has anyone driven a new style Sentra? I was just at the Nissan dealer the other day and drove two: a 2002 GXE 5spd and a 2002 S-ER (not the Spec V) 5spd. I was very impressed until...I started the first one up. I haven't driven a stick shift that unpleasant since my best friend in high school handed me the keys to his '82 VW Jetta.
Not only was the linkage vague in both (the GXE was just plain awful), but the clutch was nearly impossible to disengage smoothly at low speeds or from a standing start. Although the interior of the Sentra is truly a thing of beauty, I got out of the second one thinking, "boy, that Elantra is a really, really good deal."
Has anyone else compared the manual transmission versions of these cars back-to-back?
After finally getting sick of listening to the buzz/rattle from the passenger side I spent a couple of hours tracking it down. I found it coming from 2 different places that while driving sounded like the noise was coming from the headliner or pillar between the front and rear passenger doors. The first and worst of the 2 was from the passenger door trim panel vibrating against the metal body of the door. A simple (but sloppy) way to fix this would be to put a couple of pieces of folded paper in between the upper part of the trim panel and the doorframe. You could do this to test if that is what is causing the buzz in your own car. I fixed mine by taking out the top screw that holds the trim panel and inserting a couple of adhesive backed pieces of thin rubber (1/16in) between the trim panel and the door. This tightened the gap between the trim panel and got rid of the buzz. (I did put the screw back in of course ) ;-) The other buzz source I found was generated by what appears to be some type of plastic conduit for routing wires around the passenger side seat belt assembly. Unfortunately it is not as easy to repair as the first buzz and would be a good one to have the dealer do especially if you have never done any removal of trim panels before. You need to remove the passenger side 'Center pillar lower trim panel' to expose the seat belt retractor assembly. At the base of this assembly there is a gray plastic 'channel' that has wires routed through it. It is partially located under the carpet and between the seat-belt retractor and the body of the car. You need to put some rubber shims between this plastic 'channel' , the body of the car, and the seat belt retractor assembly. This should stop that buzz. I have done both of these and now have quiet coming from the passenger side of the car. (As long as my wife isn't with me that is) ;-) Just because this is what fixed the problem in my car doesn't mean it will fix it in yours. Good Luck y'all.
Buoyant, I really couldn’t agree more with you in the sense that Hyundai and Kia are challenging peoples perceptions of perceived bad quality of their brands, BY OFFERING a longer warranty. And that other well established manufacturers don’t need to play that game, since their products have a very strong “high quality” positioning or perception. What I was trying to show was the following facts: 1. That I was very surprised when reading about Carpoint’s reliability report for all Elantra models since 1992. The Elantra model obtains a consistent score of 5/5 after 9 years. It is very important to understand hat those reports are based on today’s current and accumulated number of repairs for models manufactured in each year. Not only on the number of claims while the warranty was in effect. 2. Some people in this forum have been concerned about Hyundai’s long run capacity to fulfil its compromise with its customers, given the perception that Hyundai products seem not to have performed quite well in the past. 3. Then, having found that component categories like Accessories, steering and suspension, brakes, starting and charging, transmission and driveline, engine, air condition and heating, show a good longevity according with Carpoint, which obtains its Reliability Ratings from Auto Information Services (AIS), the nation's largest technical support service for the after market auto repair industry, I was suggesting that probably in the long run, giving these ratings, it could be expected that Hyundai wont have a significant number of warranty claims. 4. That contrary with popular beliefs, if we can rely on Carpoint’s sources, Hyundai products already are demonstrating that they were quite reliable, even those products manufactured 10 years ago, when the general perception for Hyundai was something similar to junk! I was very surprise that for a 1992 Hyundai Elantra, the reliability score is 5/5, meanwhile the same score for the BMW series 3 is 4/5, with significant problems in the engine, just to mention one example. (I didn’t have the time or energy to check the Honda Civic or the Toyota Tercel or Corolla.) 5. That’s why I was suggesting that those people who bought a 1992 Elantra and took care of the adequate maintenance program of their cars, could still have been enjoying a very reliable car 9 years later. 6. That giving these facts, it makes a lot of sense that Hyundai had adopted its 10 years warranty strategy, giving the real quality (not the perceived one) of its cars. Then I suppose that people at Hyundai know what they are doing. 7. And a final conclusion that I can draw today is that for us, owners of the new Elantra 2001 or subsequent years, it could give us some peace of mind knowing those numbers from Carpoint, which tell us a different story than the one we have usually heard from people who even never had own a Hyundai before. I hope we can survive the annoying and little rattles -normal even in cars like BMW's- and the discrepancies between the IIHS and NHTSA air bags tests and in ten years check if Hyundai can survive its words!
I was looking at review of the Elantra GLS. One reviewer commented on the RPMs being 3,400 at 65 mph. That seems very high. Can a current owner comment on the RPMs you are experiencing at highway speeds. At 3,400 it seems like the engine would be winding up pretty high and be quite noisey. Thanks in advance for your feedback!
I've looked at those in the past too, but I remain very skeptical.
At one time when I frequented the Neon board and read countless complaints from [very annoying] owners of the 95 and 96 models, I went to check out the carpoint rating only to be blown away by the fact that the 95 Neon was rated significantly more "reliable" by them than the equivalent model year Toyota Camry.
Now, I'm NOT a Toyota fan, but that doesn't make a lot of sense. While I've never trusted Consumer Reports because of the half-butt way they conduct their surveys, I have been an avid follower of the research JD Power does (as they use statistically significant random sampling methods and contact actual owners by VIN).
And in their last few long-term dependability surveys (they contact original owners of 5 year old models for those), Toyota has always been at or very near the top and Hyundai has been far down the list.
Please understand I'm not knocking current Hyundai products, but I think anyone in the used car market expecting a '94 or '95 Hyundai to be as reliable or MORE reliable than the same year Toyota product may be in for a rude awakening.
I haven't yet been able to personally ascertain how those carpoint "reliability" indexes are determined, so until they make their methodology public, I won't be putting much faith in them.
I wonder if anyone has noticed the Hyundai recommended PSI for the Elantra 15inch Michelin tires is 30psi when the tire sidewall read 44/45psi(?). Going with Michelins suggested PSI I filled my tires to 35psi and the vehicle seemed to ride and handle better but then everytime I take the vehicle in for scheduled maintenance the dealer reduces the pressure to below 30psi. The driver/passenger door req-labels state that the tire pressure should be 30psi but it seems strange that there's such a difference between Michelins PSI listing and Hyundai PSI listing. Any suggestions?
but I believe the PSI on your sidewall is a maximum pressure. I read about this issue somewhere else and they said to go with whatever is stamped on the car. As they talk about in racing, changing the air pressure in your tires can have a huge impact on your car--even by just 1 pound--so that's why you feel the difference. Go with Hyundai's recommendation on this one.
Comments
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/long-term/articles/46043/page007.html
Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2001 10:42:41 -0800
From: Brett at Suntrup Hyundai <suntrup1@swbell.net>
Subject: RE: Dealer 74077: TN:9307-ZDFIAutoTrader.com: Vehicle Lead
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Are you insterested in a Hyundai Elantra or any other vehicle? We have some
super year-end deals right now!! When can we get together on this great
deal? Remember to ask for Brett Hergenrother or Eddie Ellinger to get our
special Internet discount! Thanks!
Brett Hergenrother
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3705 Lemay Ferry Rd
St. Louis, MO 63125
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Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 10:49 AM
To: suntrup1@swbell.net
Cc: dealerleads@autotrader.com
Subject: Dealer 74077: TN:9307-ZDFIAutoTrader.com: Vehicle Lead
***VEHICLE LEAD***
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VEHICLE INFORMATION
Make: Hyundai
Model: Elantra
Year: 2000
Price 16900
Mileage: 59763
Body Style: Sedan
Color: Silver
Cylinders: N/A
Transmission: 5 Speed Manual
Doors: N/A
Stereo: Unavailable
VIN: KMHJF35F5YU916707
Stock ID: 4034-1
Description: * Photo Included! * Has Warranty! * This late model four door
vehicle includes Power Steering, Power Brakes, Power Door Locks, Power
Windows, Cassette Player, Trip Odometer, Tachometer, Air Conditioning, Tilt
Steering Wheel, and Cruise Control.
DW
Regarding the previous post about oomph, this was started because someone suggested a sportier GT "limited edition" type model, not because someone was looking for more power.
You can now rent Toyotas at certain Toyota dealers. My roommate is interested in an automatic Echo and since I have a manual, I thought I would e-mail all the Toyota dealers in the area to see if they rent Echoes.
I was very specific in my email about why I was writing and stating that a 10 to 30 minute test drive would not do.
One dealership's response was they did not rent Echoes, but that if we came to a deal and did the paperwork, my roommate would be more than welcome to take the Echo out for longer than 30 minutes.
Hello? If she does the deal and signs the paperwork, she would own the Echo. I would hope the dealership would let her drive her car for more than 30 minutes.
If this happened in any car I drove, I would consider it a problem.
What do you guys think?
I don't know what they are doing to that Elantra, but I've never had to tighten a gear shift knob on any car I've owned, including my Elantra, and I've run some of them for as much as 80,000 miles over 8 years. They did mention that they give their long-term testers hard use.
FWIW, my Echo is a 2001 and it just passed 19,000 miles. My knob is not loose and still lines up the way it did when I first bought the car back on December 29th of last year.
Sure, Major <i>your knob still lines up, but how about the knob on your ECHO's shifter? :-)
Out of curiosity, does the shift knob on the manual Elantra actually screw on (I assume it must, but you never know)?
I had a 91 Isuzu where the shift knob could be turned from side to side (albeit it did take some effort), so as it got slightly misaligned over time, I could line it up again. It didn't actually "screw" on.
Most other sticks I've driven have had similar knobs.
In the event the Elantra's shift knob actually screws on, perhaps Hyundai should have a torque specification for it to prevent overtightening. There's nothing worse than a permanently misaligned knob IMO.
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20011207/bs/autos_chrsyler_recall_dc_1.html
Erik
Being a Chrysler owner, I'm glad to see that Chrysler is doing the right thing! Being a Hyundai owner, I am disappointed to see that Hyundai is NOT doing the right thing!
I guess they figure we've all forgotten about it by now...
In all fairness, this has been my only complaint with Hyundai. However, it will remain a nagging issue with me until they respond appropriately to this problem.
I am not praising Chrysler and I never suggested that they always do the "right" thing. I just commented on the fact that, this time, they recalled and Hyundai didn't, under similar circumstances.
When an auto manufacturer does the "right" thing, I like to acknowledge it, because I feel that we, as customers, deserve that from them.
Don't forget that the Elantra did quite well in the NHTSA front and side impact tests, so I really don't think it's an unsafe car. Sure, the offset test the IIHS does is more severe, but I expect the Elantra to pass it with an Acceptable rating (like the old model did) or higher once they figure out the air bag and seat track problems. Other cars (including other current Hyundai models) have had no problem passing this offset crash test, and since the Elantra, as mentioned a while back on this board, is a definite "make it or break it" car for Hyundai, they really want to try to get it as right as possible. So, give it some more time... and hopefully they'll have a fix.
Can the sensor in the Jeep fail AFTER the modification? YES, IT CAN.
BTW Elantra doesn't have a satellite frontal impact sensor near the crumple zone area; the sensor is built into the circuit board of the air bag computer module, which is located around the center console INSIDE the car, for much more reliable operation, so there's ZERO probability of deformed front-end parts interfering with sensing circuit.
For more particulars go here, and type 'elantra'.
http://www.highwaysafety.org/map_search.htm
What I am saying is perhaps the airbags deploy fast enough for crashes 35mph and slower, but for crashes fast than that, the airbags aren't fast enough.
Does that sound possible?
Going to Carpoint.com you can find the reliability report for Hyundays, (and for all brands obviously!) I checked the Elantra report, for all models since 1992. The whole reliability report for the Elantra is 5/5 for all models since 1992. There are just two warnings for the initial models: one about the four cylinder engine, that could have a timing belt (TB) failure, but this failure, I do consider, in most of the cases could be attributed to a lack of adequate maintenance since the TB should be changed around every 60,000 km. (and is not only a problem of Hyundai, but one of most of modern cars, that use the plastic belt). The other one is a warning about the air conditioning refrigerant, which also was used in most of the other brands a that time (the infamous CFC R12). Besides that, the general qualification for the 1992, is that the Elantra is a very reliable car for:
Transmission & Driveline Infrequent problems reported, all with low repair costs.
Steering & Suspension Infrequent problems reported, all with low repair costs.
Brakes Infrequent problems reported, all with low repair costs.
Starting & Charging Infrequent problems reported, all with low repair costs.
Accessories Infrequent problems reported, all with low repair costs.
Which means that people who bought a model in 1992, still in 2001 (9 years later) have a very reliable Hyundai.
Probably this reflects why Hyundai adopted the 10 years warranty strategy and also it backs up the concept that Hyundai is sure about what is selling.
Recall which automobile had the longest factory warranty back in 1984? Believe it or not, it was the Renault Alliance. And the reason for this *obviously* wasn't because it was a quality piece of work, but rather, consumers viewed anything design from Renault as a POS. The only way American Motors could bring new buyers into the showroom was by convincing them [with an impressive warranty] that the new Renaults were nothing like the old Renaults.
And perhaps you recall the 7/70 powertrain Chrysler touted in the early 90's. Did they do it because their powertrains were truly the best? Not at all. They did it because people were becoming deathly afraid of their electronically controlled 4-spd automatic transmissions. The warranty provided some piece of mind.
Today, Kia (now owned by Hyundai) also sports America's Longest Warranty, yet its 2001 4 vehicle lineup took 4 of the last 6 places on JD Power's Initial Quality Survey.
And two of the most reliable new car makes on the road have relatively short warranties (Honda and Toyota) - because people who buy them do not fear encountering reliability problems as those vehicles age.
Hyundai came out with "America's Longest Warranty" because it wanted to shake the stigma of being perceived as "America's Most Unreliable Make." And despite the fact that the quality of their automobiles has drastically improved over the last decade, buyer perceptions haven't caught up. If you doubt me, tell a stranger you just bought a new Hyundai and gauge their reaction.
And don't forget about the the biggest reason automakers trying to improve their quality come out with industry leading warranties: internal quality figures are generated by warranty claims. When cars are out of warranty, it's more difficult for manufacturers to trace what problem areas they need to work on to improve their quality index.
Lastly, and this is a bit off subject, has anyone driven a new style Sentra? I was just at the Nissan dealer the other day and drove two: a 2002 GXE 5spd and a 2002 S-ER (not the Spec V) 5spd. I was very impressed until...I started the first one up. I haven't driven a stick shift that unpleasant since my best friend in high school handed me the keys to his '82 VW Jetta.
Not only was the linkage vague in both (the GXE was just plain awful), but the clutch was nearly impossible to disengage smoothly at low speeds or from a standing start. Although the interior of the Sentra is truly a thing of beauty, I got out of the second one thinking, "boy, that Elantra is a really, really good deal."
Has anyone else compared the manual transmission versions of these cars back-to-back?
I found it coming from 2 different places that while driving sounded like the noise was coming from the headliner or pillar between the front and rear passenger doors.
The first and worst of the 2 was from the passenger door trim panel vibrating against the metal body of the door. A simple (but sloppy) way to fix this would be to put a couple of pieces of folded paper in between the upper part of the trim panel and the doorframe. You could do this to test if that is what is causing the buzz in your own car.
I fixed mine by taking out the top screw that holds the trim panel and inserting a couple of adhesive backed pieces of thin rubber (1/16in) between the trim panel and the door. This tightened the gap between the trim panel and got rid of the buzz. (I did put the screw back in of course ) ;-)
The other buzz source I found was generated by what appears to be some type of plastic conduit for routing wires around the passenger side seat belt assembly.
Unfortunately it is not as easy to repair as the first buzz and would be a good one to have the dealer do especially if you have never done any removal of trim panels before.
You need to remove the passenger side 'Center pillar lower trim panel' to expose the seat belt retractor assembly. At the base of this assembly there is a gray plastic 'channel' that has wires routed through it. It is partially located under the carpet and between the seat-belt retractor and the body of the car. You need to put some rubber shims between this plastic 'channel' , the body of the car, and the seat belt retractor assembly. This should stop that buzz.
I have done both of these and now have quiet coming from the passenger side of the car. (As long as my wife isn't with me that is) ;-)
Just because this is what fixed the problem in my car doesn't mean it will fix it in yours.
Good Luck y'all.
What I was trying to show was the following facts:
1. That I was very surprised when reading about Carpoint’s reliability report for all Elantra models since 1992. The Elantra model obtains a consistent score of 5/5 after 9 years. It is very important to understand hat those reports are based on today’s current and accumulated number of repairs for models manufactured in each year. Not only on the number of claims while the warranty was in effect.
2. Some people in this forum have been concerned about Hyundai’s long run capacity to fulfil its compromise with its customers, given the perception that Hyundai products seem not to have performed quite well in the past.
3. Then, having found that component categories like Accessories, steering and suspension, brakes, starting and charging, transmission and driveline, engine, air condition and heating, show a good longevity according with Carpoint, which obtains its Reliability Ratings from Auto Information Services (AIS), the nation's largest technical support service for the after market auto repair industry, I was suggesting that probably in the long run, giving these ratings, it could be expected that Hyundai wont have a significant number of warranty claims.
4. That contrary with popular beliefs, if we can rely on Carpoint’s sources, Hyundai products already are demonstrating that they were quite reliable, even those products manufactured 10 years ago, when the general perception for Hyundai was something similar to junk! I was very surprise that for a 1992 Hyundai Elantra, the reliability score is 5/5, meanwhile the same score for the BMW series 3 is 4/5, with significant problems in the engine, just to mention one example. (I didn’t have the time or energy to check the Honda Civic or the Toyota Tercel or Corolla.)
5. That’s why I was suggesting that those people who bought a 1992 Elantra and took care of the adequate maintenance program of their cars, could still have been enjoying a very reliable car 9 years later.
6. That giving these facts, it makes a lot of sense that Hyundai had adopted its 10 years warranty strategy, giving the real quality (not the perceived one) of its cars. Then I suppose that people at Hyundai know what they are doing.
7. And a final conclusion that I can draw today is that for us, owners of the new Elantra 2001 or subsequent years, it could give us some peace of mind knowing those numbers from Carpoint, which tell us a different story than the one we have usually heard from people who even never had own a Hyundai before.
I hope we can survive the annoying and little rattles -normal even in cars like BMW's- and the discrepancies between the IIHS and NHTSA air bags tests and in ten years check if Hyundai can survive its words!
At one time when I frequented the Neon board and read countless complaints from [very annoying] owners of the 95 and 96 models, I went to check out the carpoint rating only to be blown away by the fact that the 95 Neon was rated significantly more "reliable" by them than the equivalent model year Toyota Camry.
Now, I'm NOT a Toyota fan, but that doesn't make a lot of sense. While I've never trusted Consumer Reports because of the half-butt way they conduct their surveys, I have been an avid follower of the research JD Power does (as they use statistically significant random sampling methods and contact actual owners by VIN).
And in their last few long-term dependability surveys (they contact original owners of 5 year old models for those), Toyota has always been at or very near the top and Hyundai has been far down the list.
Please understand I'm not knocking current Hyundai products, but I think anyone in the used car market expecting a '94 or '95 Hyundai to be as reliable or MORE reliable than the same year Toyota product may be in for a rude awakening.
I haven't yet been able to personally ascertain how those carpoint "reliability" indexes are determined, so until they make their methodology public, I won't be putting much faith in them.
And I think I read somewhere on the site that their TOTAL responses for ALL cars are in the neighborhood of 200,000 a year.
I believe this is less than the number of responses that either Consumer Reports or JD Powers receives.