Older Honda Accords

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Comments

  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Never have hit the curb, the paint is just peeling off. I think the previous owner used alloy wheel cleaner on the hubcabs. Probably will check car "junk yards", but there is only one in a 200 mile radius and it is small.
  • soberssobers Member Posts: 496
    If you can do read featured article on Edmunds. How GM should be re-organized. There are very good points like: No other brand than POntiac shoudl use supercharged engine (like in BonnVilee & Regal) etc. GM sales the SAME car in Alero & Grand AM. They subsidise it like crazy, offer high rebates..do a LOT of rental sales which u know are below that rebate price. GM is dealer compnay & not consumer oriented.
  • soberssobers Member Posts: 496
    recent shift towards trucks is going to cost them in the future. They don't have quality preoduct in small car segment which is significant when gas prices sour...
  • canadianclcanadiancl Member Posts: 1,078
    My only direct experience with a GA was with a 1999 model that I rented in LA for about 10 days on vacation. I thought it was a pleasant car to drive. But bear in mind that I was only renting it and so I wasn't too picky. It was a 4 cyl so it was a little rough around the edges. The interior ergonomics were not up to Japanese standards though. ie. the seats were poorly shaped and uncomfortable, the gear shift got in the way of the cupholders, etc. My neigbour has had one for years and he hasn't had too many problems. The GA is an established GM model so I wouldn't think there would be that much wrong with it. It's probably a good car for a young guy like you. When you're older you'd probably want more refined (& understated) cars. Hey, I would have loved to have a car like a GA when I was your age.
  • spunkmeyerspunkmeyer Member Posts: 3
    I traded a '94 GA in last year for a EX accord. I must say they GA is an ok car, but after 50k it needed some repairs. New tires that cost $200 a piece really pissed me off. The check engine light kept coming on. It needed new struts, new A/C, new brakes twice, and some other reletively minor repairs. I hope to have much better luck with the accord. BTW the accord is much easier to clean without all the body cladding and white alloy wheels which were pretty chipped by the time I traded it in. Good luck with your GA.
  • whackowhacko Member Posts: 96
    I've been reading rpm9's entries and the kid does have a point. Of course it would only be fair to say that the Accord is a much more reputable car than the Grand Am. However, in my humbling opinion, the GA is a very well styled vehicle. I mean, if it wasn't a Pontiac (or for that matter any manufacturer) and we just judged it as a work of art, the GA would get a thumbs up. But the stark reality is, the Honda Accord rules!
  • silvercoupesilvercoupe Member Posts: 326
    You may want to look at Ebay.com and see if someone by chance has any wheel covers for sale.

    Also, do a search for hubcaps and check out the sites that come up (hubcapannie for one--they have a place in my city with tons of hubcaps).

    I know what you are talking about with the paint. It is already beginning to come off of the wheel covers on my wife's 97 Accord. Paint peeled off bigtime on my 91's covers, so I bought new @ about $25 each. Good luck.
  • m9431m9431 Member Posts: 38
    Yes, you CAN paint the plastic hubcaps successfully. Start by lightly steelwooling the plastic hubcaps, then clean with windex, let dry. Use Krylon spray paint with 2 or 3 light coats. BTW, Pontiacs aren't bad--this from an Accord owner. Did you see that GM is going to discontinue Oldsmobile? Too bad, the Alero and Intrigue are really neat.
  • titopuentetitopuente Member Posts: 46
    You can get those at WalMart for about $20!!!
    save yourself the trouble!
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Those Micky Mouse Wal-Mart 20 dollar hubcaps will make your car look like crap!
  • titopuentetitopuente Member Posts: 46
    Better than chipped, paint-peeled ones that are falling apart.
  • jmincherjmincher Member Posts: 65
    Hello all. Just thought I would update everyone on my Accord (sorry wife's Accord). Just to recap we traded in a 97 Tahoe for a 2001 Accord EX-V6. I think I am one of the few that went from SUV to Sedan. The Accord has been a great car, we currently have 3,800 miles on it and zero problems.

    I didn't buy the car to drag race its a family car. As far as handling is concerned it does exactly as its supposed to and ride is comfortable. Gas mileage has been terrific, we averaged 26MPG on a recent trip to New Orleans. We got to try out the Traction Control recently when we received a little snow, it performed quite well. I drive a 4WD truck and I think the Accord handles the ice and snow just as well if not better.

    I hope to post on edmunds.com about how much I have enjoyed this car.
  • ferdmferdm Member Posts: 13
    I have a 2001 Accord EX-V6. I'm only averaging 18mpg (7.6km/liter) with about 80/20 city/highway driving. I currently have 1550km's (963 miles) on the car. On my first fill up, I got 24mpg. That was when I drove to Seattle to break the car in. Next fill up, I got 22 mpg. The next, I got 18mpg. It got pretty cold and dipped below zero celsius (32f) around that time so I attributed it to that but now it's not so cold and I'm still getting 18mpg. I don't have a lead foot and I don't race the car. I always let the car idle for about 30 seconds to get the oil flowing before moving. Is this typical for the first few thousand km's?
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    My experience is that it will take well over 5000 miles for any Honda engine to develop full power and minimal fuel consumption. Our '01 V6 averages about 20 mpg in mixed use in very mild Calif temps, but any tank dominated by urban driving can easily reduce this to 18-19 mpg. Give it time; our 4 cyl '98 was still getting better [and developing more power] right through 7000 miles. On our first trip, with the engine green as grass, we also got 24 mpg at steady 70-80 mph speeds; we haven't had the chance to duplicate that kind of use lately, but will do so on Christmas day with a total of 300 miles of running around on freeways to get from one commitment to another. I'll report back.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    As promised, I am reporting back on our Xmas day run around the SF Bay area. Total miles covered were just short of 280; temps varied between 30 and 60 degrees F [yes, that's pretty average around here at this time of year]; speeds ranged in the 70-80 mph bracket on the freeway; AC compressor was on about 25% of the time for defogging purposes; overall fuel consumption was 26.0 mpg. This is an '01 EX V6 with 1500 miles on it. I expect this will gradually get about 5-10% better when it is fully broken in, which my experience suggests may not occur for at least another 5000 miles.

    Great car...really easy to get through this kind of day [traffic was horrendously crowded, but also extremely fast in spots] with this car.
  • gonggong Member Posts: 2
    Hi all,

    Thanks in advance.

    I have a 1999 Accord 4 cyl auto which I have owned for 1.5 years and 27k miles. It
    has been pretty good. 2 week ago I had an accident and ran the car into a
    small tree at 15 mph. The front bumper, left front fender and left door are damaged. The body
    shop fixed it but since then I have been hearing annoying humming noise from
    the left side while driving at any speed. The dealer said it was front wheel bearing.
    I took it to the body shop and they replace the bearing. However, that doesn't solve
    the problem and now the body shop becomes defensive and saying it did not result
    from the accident. Does anybody have any input about the noise? If the dealer and the
    body shop all say that they can't find the problem, what can I do?

    Gong
  • kc_flynnkc_flynn Member Posts: 45
    Just bought a new gold 2001 5 speed Honda Accord LX a month ago. Love the car. I have 2100 miles on it. I replaced a 1989 Toyota Camry, which had gotten to the point of diminishing returns.

    This is my second Honda Accord LX. My other car is a black 1999 5 speed Honda Accord LX with 37,000 miles on it. Zero problems with the car. Both cars are 4 bangers.

    I test drove a few other cars before buying my new Accord. I test drove a new Camry, which really underwhelmed me. Underpowered. I also tried out a Pontiac Grand Prix SE. Weird shaped trunk. Very cheap interior. Cheesy control panel and ugly seats.

    I've come to the conclusion, that the Honda Accord is the perfect midsize sedan. Great reliability, good power with the 4 banger, tasteful interior, very spacious, conservative good looks. You really can't go wrong.
  • cblake2cblake2 Member Posts: 53
    To: alt.autos.honda; rec.autos.makers.honda
    Subject: Accord ABS (Antilock Braking System): DEFECT????

    I'd like to know if HONDA ACCORD and ODYSSEY owners have experienced the FAILURE of the major components in their ANTILOCK BRAKING SYSTEM. I am looking into failures especially on the early to mid-90's model years. I own a 1995 Honda Odyssey which has only 60,000 miles on it. The ABS accumulator and modulator need to be replaced at a cost of $1400. I note many, many such complaints in the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) database of owner complaints. I see some as early as the same year of purchase, but most in the 1995 model year seem to be occurring in the year 2000. Please help me identify a trend in these DEFECTIVE components. Send me an e-mail with the answers to the following questions.

    1) What make and model do you own?
    2) Have you had failure in one or more components of the ABS?
    3) If so, which components have failed?
    4) At what mileage did your failure occur?
    5) What was the total cost incurred or quoted?
    6) What symptoms did you have prior to or at the time of failure?
    7) Was your regular braking ability affected?
    8) Did you ABS dash indicator light come on intermittently or constantly?
    9) Did you note longer stopping distances or brake pedal to the floor?
    10) What has been Honda's response to your premature ABS failure?
    11) Have you received any assistance from Honda in the costs of repair?
    12) Have you been told that components are on NATIONAL BACKORDER?
    13) Has the dealership suggested the replacement of seals vs. use of rebuilt components?

    PLEASE e-mail your information as soon as possible. If you have had this failure, please petition the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration to open a formal investigation. This is a safety issue. While you might be told that the ABS failure will not affect your regular braking ability, this has not been the case for many owners. Accidents have been reported to the NHTSA. Put PRESSURE on the NHTSA to investigate FULLY on your behalf.

    U.S. Department of Transportation
    National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
    Office of Defects Investigations 1-800-424-9393
    NSA-10.01 1-888-327-4236
    400 7th Street, SW http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov
    Washington, D.C. 20590

    Center for Auto Safety
    1825 Connecticut Ave., NW
    Suite 330
    Washington, D.C. 20009-5708 http://www.autosafety.org



    Charlene Blake
    cblake@erols.com
  • maryg2maryg2 Member Posts: 33
    Please forgive me if this was discussed much earlier, but I can't find it.

    I just purchased a 2001 Ex-V6 (and love it) without the protective paint seal and without the enhanced security system (which the dealer offered for $300).

    First, I am wondering if I made a major mistake by turning down the security system; they told me having someone else install a security system would void the warranty on my electrical system (eek!). What are other Honda owners doing? Please share your expreriences with me, as I am worried that I messed up by refusing the Honda system.

    Second, I know I read in one of the discussions about a car wax that was recommended by several Honda owners. I remember one person saying never use Turtle Wax. Can anyone recommend a good body wax to best preserve the finish? And how long should you wait after purchase before applying it?

    Thanks for sharing your experiences.
  • snowmansnowman Member Posts: 540
    If you get your alarm installed by real pros, you will not have any problem. I got Viper installed by Circuit City. As of 24K miles no single problem with alarm or with the car. But make sure the system that you are buying is compatible with Accord. Reputable alarm system companies post this compatibility charts in their sites. To me, factory system lacks of some functions and that was why I selected Viper.
  • maryg2maryg2 Member Posts: 33
    Thanks, snowman, for sharing your experience and telling me where to get the Viper. Sounds like a good option. I guess the dealer really spooked me with warnings about negating the electrical system warranty if the system was installed elsewhere.

    I'd like to hear from more of you re the security systems and the miracle car wax.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    I think any "security system" other than the standard one, which already includes an ignition immobilizer, is a waste of money. But suit yourself. [We have a '01 EX V6 sedan, and see no reason to fuss with this idea.] As noted above, there are lots of competent people out there who can install the aftermarket stuff without disturbing the electrics...and Accords are cars they see a dozen times a day at the bigger shops.

    On the second question, I have always had excellent results with either Meguiars liquid cleaner wax or the highly rated Zymol liquid. The latter is expensive, but readily available at WalMart and other discounters. It is especially effective with dark colors; our silver '01 isn't really much of a challenge in this regard. I try to do it every 4-5 months, as our car is garaged at home and rarely gets driven in crappy weather.
    The Zymol successfully restored a very dark blue metallic '91 Accord wagon that my mother had neglected and was in less than perfect shape. I got lots of compliments when I had finished the job - just remember that the last step is to use a fresh towel with a spray water bottle to get all of the swirls and excess wax off the finish.
  • canadianclcanadiancl Member Posts: 1,078
    Your dealer wasn't being honest. There is no such thing as an enhanced security system made by Honda for the EX-V6 which already comes with a factory system. So they really just wanted to sell you an after-market system to install on top of the factory system. And they would often not only get these system from after-market shops, but also use the installers from these shops to do the installation. So if you really wanted an additional system to be put on, you may as well shop around yourself and eliminate the middleman.
  • maryg2maryg2 Member Posts: 33
    Thanks for your responses. I truly appreciate it. My husband told me the same thing as canadiancl about the factory-installed system being adequate, but I was left with the impression that it was not enough to deter theft.

    Jrct9454, I searched Edmonds Town Hall long and hard yesterday and finally came up with Meguiars too. It's the cleaning/wax system most often recommended by people writing in. There was mixed opinion about the Zymol, but it was also mentioned several times. Thanks much, all. It really helps to have all this advice!
  • shortpersonshortperson Member Posts: 7
    My Honda dealer offered me a 2001 EXL 4 cyl Accord for 19,950, plus tax and plate. I wandered if that is a good price? I am trading in an '89 Accord LX. Sticker price on new car was 23K something. I asked how much I was getting for my car but didn't get an answer, Just this price. By the way, I'm a woman and wandered if they wern't taking me seriously. I tried to sound like I did my homework on the Internet, but I didn't come out convincing. Any help or suggestions is appreciated. Also, I went in with the thought of buying the Naples Gold, but when I saw it on the lot, the color didn't look so special. How is the silver in comparison? I'm trading in a gray Honda, so I thought I might like something different. I test drove the silver with the gray leather interior. It was nice. Should I have rust-proofing done? I live in PA. Lots of snowy weather. Thanks for any help with price and/or color, and rust-proofing., and anything else I need to know. I've spent the last 2 days surfing the net and am exhausted. I'm also considering a small SUV to set me up higher (I'm short), like the Subaru Forester, I guess. Also might be handy for taking child to college. though I guess it's not any more spacious than the Accord. How is it in the winter snow?
  • kamw19kamw19 Member Posts: 1
    That is a great price for a 2001 EXL 4 cylinder. I believe that is below invoice. I am looking for a 2001 too. The dealer I talked to offered me a coupe EXL 5-speed for $21,200 plus ttl. What dealership is offering you that price? I might have to give them a call and ask my local dealer to match the price.
  • ral2167ral2167 Member Posts: 791
    go with naples gold-- much prettier color than silver...unless you like the gray interior over the tan

    forego rustproofing....

    also, your price was below invoice for the leather EX 4--- was this automatic or a 5 speed?
  • jmincherjmincher Member Posts: 65
    In my opinion the best wax available is from Zaino. You can check it out at www.zainobros.com

    The stuff is great, the only problem is what to buy, but after a little research and maybe an email you will figure it out. Check their site out and let me know what you think.

    Shortperson, the Accord with Traction Control is exceptional in the snow. I can't make decision for you in what to buy but I have been totally pleased with my '01 Accord EX-V6.

    How to buy a car. Read the Interview with a Car Salesman on this site, it gives alot of insight on how car deals are made. Its quite lengthy but its definetly worth the read.
  • shortpersonshortperson Member Posts: 7
    Thanks for some tips. Now I don't know wheter to get a V4 or V6? Silver or Gold? Might check out a Subaru Forester since I'm short and have to stretch to reach the pedals. I thought having the dealer apply undercoating was a good thing. They send it to an independent company. Anything else I should think of? I know there is a $750 dealer incentive for a V4 and a $500 on a V6. How do I get some of that out of the dealer? I could not locate "Interview with a Car Salesman." How do I find it?
  • barm77barm77 Member Posts: 1
    Hi,I've bought a new Honda Accord EX V6 i.e 2001 model 1/2/01. I've read the quetsions in 526 and 527 item nos: I've got the car for 22,900 + taxs which has leather seats and moon roof just wondering if, the price paid is good or not?
    My second question is, the dealer asked me to go for Teflon coating package Interior and Exterior for 269 +taxs, which says that it would avoid scratchs and waxing, it is from TDS carcare products which is paint and Fabric,Vinly and Leather protector.
    Can some body suggest me if I should go for the TDS product at this price? Dealer gave this price before delivery of the car, once I take the car the dealer says price becomes 495 +taxes.
  • canadianclcanadiancl Member Posts: 1,078
    all paint and interior protection packages offered by dealers are just extra profit margin for the dealer.
  • margrxsaltmargrxsalt Member Posts: 1
    what part of pa do you live. i just bought a honda accord 4dr lx w/rear spoiler and fog lights for 18800 with taxes. i bought it at scott honda. the color on it is the blue. right now if you buy a accord 4 cyl you can get 5.9 apr for 60 mo 4.9 for 48 and so on.....thisd deal is good till tomm 1/3/01 and then honda pulls the apr
  • maryg2maryg2 Member Posts: 33
    I just bought my 01 ExV6 for $22,974 plus TTL. I think just under $23,000 is about what they are going for, and it meets the Edmunds TMV. However, several people on various Town Hall topics are saying they were quoted much less. Who knows? Check out the Smart Shoppers Honda Accord topic, and good luck.
  • kc_flynnkc_flynn Member Posts: 45
    My 2001 Accord is Naples Gold. My sister has a 2000 that's Silver. I like the Naples Gold much better. It's really sharp looking.

    The Accord is a great car in the snow. I live up in Massachusetts. Also, don't worry about rustproofing. The Honda paintjobs are all good. My parents have two 9 year old Accords and neither have a speck of rust on them.
  • ral2167ral2167 Member Posts: 791
    any of you added an aftermarket keyless entry that WASN'T also an alarm?? but just merely keyless entry?

    does honda offer a keyless entry accessory that isn't also an alarm/security system??

    thanks
  • hondaaccessoryhondaaccessory Member Posts: 74
    "does honda offer a keyless entry accessory that isn't also an alarm/security system??"

    Yes, the offer both. The keyless lists for about $120 less than the security system.

    -Trevor
    www.honda-accessories.com
  • shortpersonshortperson Member Posts: 7
    I live in PA.Why do I keep hearing Edmund's town hall folks say to forego rustproofing. Why? I thought it was supposed to be a good thing to prevent rust. We get alot of salt on the roads. Also, will it smellup the car? I was also going to get the package deal for 325 for leather protection for the seats and something else. I'm still deciding between the EX 4 or 6, silver or gold. Help!
  • ral2167ral2167 Member Posts: 791
    i think the general consensus is, these cars are painted well enough along with rust inhibitors that rustproofing is not needed...others mention that holes are drilled when rustproofing, which possibly could actually cause water to get into the insides of the car's panels. you'll probably have more stone chips on the hood to worry about than rusted undercarriage or body panels anyway, and rustproofing doesn't prevent those chips from happening.

    rustproofing will smell the first few days or week, but as i recall when i had it done years ago on cars, the smell went away...kinda like when you replace a windshield, you can smell that epoxy or whatever the goop they use...

    i don't do rustproofing anymore, but try to get the car washed every now and then in the winter time if salt accumulates...they got these laser type car washes where nothing touches the car--- i'm not saying it does the greatest job of washing, but it gets alot of the salt off....polish it in zaino or some other polish in the late fall ...

    get the naples gold over the silver-- trust me--- MUCH nicer color-- they don't give silver medals for first place in the olympics, remember. besides, silver blends into the road too much...makes the car harder to see in daytime... a safety issue-- not many streets are paved in gold these days....the gold will stand out, unlike the silver, but it's not so loud like the gold acura CL color, which i think was discontinued. people who buy white, silver, or black cars simply couldn't decide on a color, so they chose one of those. black shows the dirt way too much, white cars are hertz rentals, and silver...well..too blah. nuts you say? i think not.
  • canadianclcanadiancl Member Posts: 1,078
    They use galvanized steel so rust should not be a concern. If you do live in an area that uses an excessive amount of road salt, then just wash your car more frequently. And I've heard that the tar-like material that they spray on the undercarriage may actually caused problems with electrical system.
  • silvercoupesilvercoupe Member Posts: 326
    I purchased the keyless entry from Hparts.com and had my local dealer install it on my 2000 LX coupe. Total cost was around $240. I could not find a local aftermarket supplier that I felt comfortable with, so I chose the Honda system. You can also get a remote trunk release for an additional $25 if you want.

    As far as color, I personally prefer the silver over the gold or white. To me the gold is kinda blah. Plus the beige interior gets dirty really quick. I know, my wife has a 97 with a beige interior and it really shows dirt.
  • kelfkelf Member Posts: 83
    I am interested in an Accord wiith auto, ABS, and side airbags. But confused with all the different engines: is it worth to get SULEV???? do they have lower gas mileage? What specific model # do you recommend as the best buy with the follwing requirenments??
    kelfg@aol.com
  • carguy62carguy62 Member Posts: 545
    You said "people who buy white, silver, or black cars simply couldn't decide on a color, so they chose one of those. black shows the dirt way too much, white cars are hertz rentals, and silver...well..too blah. nuts you say? i think not."

    What a ridiculous statement. Color choice like most things in life is subjective. To say someone chose on of those colors because they couldn't decide is ridiculous. I have a silver EX and think it is quite nice. I preferred the quartz interior which made the exterior choice that much easier. I would never fault anyone for the color they chose, maybe you should think the same.
  • shortpersonshortperson Member Posts: 7
    For clarification, I will buy a new Accord Ex6 and keep it as long as I can-10 years or more. In that case, is it wise to undercoat and rustproof since I live in Pittsburgh. Like I said, lots of salt. There is also paint protection and leather interior protection. I think I might get the gold even though it seems a duller finish than the silver. Am I wrong on that? Sometimes it almost looks tan.
  • soberssobers Member Posts: 496
    Color is totally subjective. I know many peple which won't get a car without black color. Same is true with white... They just want black or white. I got too bored with all the white/black/Silver cars on the road & got my personal preferrence i.e Cherry Red for 2000 Accord SE. I got the car loaded exactly I wanted & exact color i wanted. Did not like the one on Camry(burgendy). Liked the more glossy & fresh cherry red.

    Silver though looks good is too common. GOld is not MY favorite. Looks kind of dull on any car.
    (to me !! -:) )

    Rushproffing, protective package etc etc:
    DON'T TAKE ANY OF THESE....These are just &%^%&%
    Once again:
    DON'T GET ANY OF THESE SCAMS...
  • ral2167ral2167 Member Posts: 791
    the special finance rates (2.9% for 4 cylinder accords) has been extended though to feb. 28. this comes from a honda sales rep i just go off phone with
  • jmincherjmincher Member Posts: 65
    The vehicle comes with a 5yr/unlimited mileage warranty against rust and corrosion to the body.

    If you have the $$$ get it if makes you happy but don't let the salesman make you "think" you need it.
  • steve05401steve05401 Member Posts: 50
    kelf-

    unless you live in California or are purchasing an Accord in California, you CANNOT currently purchase a SULEV 4 cyl. Accord. SULEV (Super Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle) is sold in CA only.

    The ULEV is sold in CA and parts of the Northeast (mainly from MD and DC north to VT).

    i just bought a 2001 ULEV Accord sedan here in suburban Phila.

    regular 50-state LEV engine is 150 hp/152 ft.lb. torque, and my ULEV is 148/148. that's an OK compromise for me to reduce the impact my car driving has on the environment. every little bit helps.
  • auburn63auburn63 Member Posts: 1,162
    rselken
    It sounds like it is a normal thing depending on the amount of change or bump. Try sitting in neutral and wait for the A/C to cycle and see how much the rpm's change.If it is more than 300 rpm's then you could try an idle adjustment.The reason you feel it like you do is when the a/c comes on it creates an extra load. This load is detected by the ELD(electric load detection) circuit which is resposible to tell the computer to raise the idle. All this is done quickly but with an automatic trans, in gear, you will at times see it and notice it if the correction(in idle rpm's) is more than like 100 rpm's.As long as it is not excessive it is normal.If you feel it is too much see the dealer and have them do an idle reset and adjust.
  • cheapownercheapowner Member Posts: 47
    Can I install Honda alarm in an DX sedan? If so, how does the remote lock/unlock work? I plan to get an DX w/ value package.
  • jess1886jess1886 Member Posts: 1
    I have a 2001 Accord EX and have the same noise...in the morning, when I leave for work after the car has been parked all night, when I turn the wheel to the right it makes a weird noise. My husband tends to think it's just the power steering..I'm not sure either though. Anyone else have any ideas?
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