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Comments
Small SUV's are generally mid size SUV's of the late 90's. My 2002 CRV is just as large as most of the mid size SUV's in the late 90's! I don't need the CRV to be any bigger then it is now, but it is a better size then the first generation in my opinion.
As for V6s, if you really want a performance car, get a smaller, lighter car with high-performance engines to increase the torque to weight ratio. But a V6 on a family sedan is not something I'm a fan of. If people just learned to drive smoother (such as leaving more space in traffic), they wouldn't need to smash the brakes and then smash on the gas to resume the tail-gating, and thus the 'need' for more gas-guzzling engines may not be such an important factor for your everyday commuter.
I personally can't see ever buying an V6 Accord, there are just too many better choices when you get into that range.
She looked at the 2002 Camry but is really interested in the new Accord ( EX V6 in Redondo Red Pearl with CD/MP3 player by the way ) MORE POWER than the Camry, more audio options, nicer interior are major differences for her.
To read more, check this out Using Subscriptions, Bookmarks and Message Center - that's a section of the Town Hall Help file which you'll find linked on the left sidebar of this page.
If you do prefer bookmarks over subscriptions, I don't see any way to get them to show up ahead of subscriptions, but you could cancel all of your subscriptions (if you have any) and then ensure that "Show only subscriptions with new messages" is checked in the option list at the bottom of the Message Center page. That should get rid of the subscription display altogether.
I hope this helps.
So, Ex or Lx? I am a safety nut after having been hit 3 times in 18 years (honda's crumble zones work very well). Aside from all of the other extras on the EX which I can take or leave, the disc brakes and the abs w/extra safety feature sounds like a reason for going with the EX. Can anyone tell me in laymen's terms what the brake difference does in terms of real stopping difference and is there really a difference with all discs and this extra computerized gizmo?
Thanks!
Curious as to if anyone knows.
Such as (American cars excluded)?
: )
Mackabee
Second question, I hesitate to ask as I've posted it in a few other forums (forgive me for cross posting).
Is the paint on 2002 Accords holding up? Up until now I had really favored the 2002 Camry over the Accord due to the fact that I actually like the soft ride (and I'm not old), and the current low interest rates.
However, apparently the 2002 Camry has gone down in quality, esp. in paint jobs. Some are hoping its first year runs, but enough have complained that its frightening me away from the car.
How are Honda's paint jobs holding up?
Mackabee
1) LX is about $2k cheaper
2) EX has the moonroof, which I don't value much, plus it reduces headroom, might even reduce roof structure's rigidity.
3) EX has nicer audio system (6CD changer) and alloy wheels. I'm not an audio nut, and you have more selection in aftermarket alloy wheels at lower prices.
4) Safety-wise, the EX is on par with the LX except for EBD (electronic brake force distribution) which may or may not help improve stopping distances. The EBD just makes sure each caliper on the four wheels apply the same force on the discs when you step on the brakes. Versus regular hydraulic lines which may apply slightly more force on a wheel's discs if there's more pressure in those hydraulic valves. I think unless for some odd reason the hydraulic pressures get way out of wack, all the lines should have very similar pressure. If the EBD uses brake by electronic wires, then that reduces overall weight and maybe improves reliability since wires are more reliable than hydraulic lines. And IF the EX 4cylinder had side curtain airbags then I'd consider EX more, but it being an option only on EX V6...that's in another price range.
5) The EX has disc brakes in the rear, on paper that means better stopping distances, but when a car is traveling forward and the brakes are applied, about 70% of the braking force is done with the front brakes, which are discs on LX too. So the rear disc brakes on EX provide maybe 10% better stopping power, and that's assuming they're twice as good as the drum brakes.
So based on these points, I've decided to get an LX instead of an EX since it's not worth the extra $2k for ME, others may value the options on EX more than me.
jfigueroa1 "Honda CR-V" Oct 17, 2002 10:11am
Accord HP 240@6250, TORQUE 212@5000
Camry HP 192@5300, TORQUE 209@4400
I have not looked at Accord's power curve yet. It is quite possible that Accord V6 outputs same amount HP at 5300. From the numbers above, I do not see any advantages for Accord's V6. If Accord runs faster it must be the 5sp transmission.
Accord was on TV last Sunday (PBS Motor Week). Here is a link to the report. They clocked the V6 LX for 8 seconds from 0 to 60 mph. That was not impressive. Camry can do 0-60mph in 8.1 seconds.
http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2201.shtml
I don't know how MW got 8sec 0-60Mph on the new V6. The old Accord V6 got below 8sec with just 200hp.
0-60Mph for new V6 Accrod from other sources:
Motor Trend: 6.5
Car & Driver 7.2
As for the numbers from MT and C&D, it is well known that whoever pays the big $ gets the best numbers.
Here is link to 2002 Camry review from the same source. The 02 Camry has far shorter stopping distance from 60-0mph.
http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2104.shtml
Consumer Report Buyer's Guide has 03 Accord rated below 02 Camry in every configuration including V6. Remember Consumer Report is least likely to be brought.
BTW, I own 2 Hondas including my MDX. I have never owned a Toyota. I have no intention to make Toyota look better.
I don't know what you mean by smoking accord. Except I think a V6 Accord will smoke the V6 Camry any day.
Also for maximum acceleration , HP is the main factor. And also it's better to produce peak torque higher RPM than lower if you wish to have maximum acceleration.
Unlike many people, I actually find Consumer Report car review to be very informative and useful. Even so, being a review, they have their own criteria, which may or may not be the same as mine. So I will use it just another source of information, no more or less important than other car magazines.
I too enjoy CU objectivity, and find their numbers helpful for real world acceleration comparisons....from stop & at idle (no power braking - stepping on throttle & brake at same time to launch car).
CU 0-60 for 02 Camry is 8.6 sec. You can't pick the best number for the Camry (8.1....never heard that one before), and worst number for the Accord. To be fair, vehicles from the same model year should be compared. So we don't yet have an 03 Camry vs Accord comparo.
Also, you can't look at max hp or torque at rpm now that Honda has shifted the engine technology paradigm with vtec. Nowadays you have to compare entire torque & hp curves.
Stating the obvious, the power of the Accord V6 was great, but for less money, the 4 cylinder with the 5 speed had enough power for me and I enjoy shifting. Plus, I get the better gas mileage and nicer looking wheels (EX). I thought the car, even with the 4 cylinder, was quieter than the previous generation and comparable to the Camry. I loved the driving position with the telescoping steering wheel, and the comfort of the 8 way adjustable leather seats. Honda must really be proud of this Accord, as that is one big "H" on the front of the car.
Knowing I could get the Camry at invoice with 2.9% financing, I thought I would also try it out. First off, the Camry feels like a really big car compared to the Accord. I know the dimension are bigger, but the open interior layout adds to the feeling. I preferred the more closed in cockpit feel of the Accord. I was impressed with the suspension on the SE. It definetly handled better than other Camrys I have owned and driven in the past. The Camry also had plenty of power with the 4 cylinder, 5 speed combination. For me, I did not think the seats in the Camry, with the short bottom cushion, were as comfortable as the Accord's.
Overall, I preferred the Accord, and will probably purchase a Silver EX 4 cyl, 5 speed with leather once I can track one down at a decent price.
interior looks very spacious....dash is higher and larger......has a shape and layout like a cross between the Diamante and larger version of Protege. Plastics not overly rich looking, but not cheap either. Climate control switches look very nice. Interior assembly quality is excellent. Seat cloth and armrest area look chintzy.
Rear end looks stubby but overall car looks sleek and 'edgy'. Front end defintiely Asian.
Overall good looking but honestly not a stunner, interior or exterior. But if its a good car, hey, its good.
Better looking than Camry, that's for sure.
That aside, I was disappointed by the 2003 Accord LE. My test drive notes--which I made before the salesman showed his true colors--include: driver's seat stiff and uncomfortable, 4cyl engine whine apparent during acceration activity (start from stop, resume accel on city streets and on-ramps), tire sing and thrump on highway cruising near 65-70 mph, some tire squeal on strong braking and loose pavement, very apparent lean on turns.
Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to find out if perhaps I chose the wrong Honda to test drive--I'm definitely looking for a sportier sedan. The salesman walked away from me the *moment* he determined I wasn't interested in buying that Accord! (No thanks, no handshake!!...I'm still amazed and offended.) Other questions not answered by absent salesman--is the EX likely to improve on any of these issues, with larger tires and possibly upgraded interior? I understand the suspension is the same on all the 03 Accords.
KK
Anyway, Mama looked at the Odysseys and decided to get an EX with Cloth in Havasu (Sp?) Blue. The salesmen went straight to one of his notebooks on his desk, and told my mother that she could order one and it would be here in 1-2 months. So were are now getting the Odyssey and I have to wait until GRADUATION before I get a new car, which is FINE by me actually. I later asked the salesmen if they had a waiting list for the Accord and he replied, "No, we don't have a waiting list for the Accord or the Civic because they are our mass-produced cars, they ship as many as they want to us." What was that again about paying MSRP? He was ready to deal on the EXV6 in Desert Sand sitting on the lot! Unfortunately for me, I want the EX-L with 5spd manual, no automatics for me.
I did get to sit inside the Accord EXV6 though, and boy is that interior nice, I cannot say that enough. I really really want the new Accord.
The brochures suck to me though. Where are the pictures of the other models? All I see are pics of the EXV6. In last year's brochure, there were pics of LX, LXV6, EX and EXV6 models, why just the EXV6 this time? Also they only had one good shot of the interior. They could have at least taken a picture of the EXV6 with Ivory interior and the LX or DX with Gray so that you can get an idea of what the interior trims look like in the car, instead of looking at the samples in the book. I see cost cutting!
Also, this particular dealership had just gotten an EX-L with automatic. It was graphite gray and beautiful. The black leather looks nice on the Silver models, but I like the Gray leather that comes with the Graphite Gray color too. I like the Ivory also because it's darker than last year's Ivory and the seats look sportier.
Are you sure you're talking about 2003 Accord? One of the remarks I made while looking at 2002 and 2003 Accord standing side-by-side was that the new version actually looks smaller! The dash is slightly higher, but that is something from inside out.
Sat in LX and EX-L. The cloth interior is nice, as are the door inserts (even with cloth). Good car, and excellent value, IMO.
Wish... cover for cupholder, and slightly lower dash for a more airy feel (like the current Accord). But that is nothing compared to what the new version offers. Great job Honda.
You probably did. Everything that you were disappointed about in the Accord seems to be its strengths (especially the comments about the seats) according to all the articles and a lot of the posters who also test drove the car.
Also, Accords don't come in LE trim. Not even in Canada. Camrys, however, do come in LE trim. Perhaps you did test drive the wrong car?
Why would I exclude American cars? I know many here are anti-American, but my experience with them has been no better or worse than my experience with my Hondas.
The eight-way power seats, seemed to go farther back than the ones that adjust manually. Maybe it was just my imagination.
I think the LX and EX have the same Michelin MXV4 tires, just different sizes, so I wouldn't expect a dramatic improvement in noise or handling between the two. The Michelin MXV4 tires (I don't think they are MXV4 'Plus' now), do tend to be louder than other tires, but they have a good treadlife. The Camry SE comes with 160 rated performance Bridgestones, which would probably have to be replaced within a year.
As far as the quietness of the 4cyl, comparing it to the 99 5spd I owned, I thought it was better. But you may be able to tell a difference comparing it to the Camry.
Concerning prices on the Accord, there is one dealership locally (that recently took the name of a famous Indy car owner), that has tacked on thousands of dollars in dealer installed options on every Accord, Odyssey and Pilot on its lot. It is quite laughable, especially considering none of the other dealers here do that. That dealer has the best location, but people just need to shop around. One dealer said he will order any Accord for $500 off, and another already has 40 on his lot and is willing to negotiate. I am waiting on a call back today.
The latest issue has a general "What's new for 2003" article that gives the same kind of general info about the Accord that has been available since the end of July. No test has been performed yet.
Are you confusing Consumer Reports with Consumer Guide? The latter has printed test results for the 2003 Accord based on the early samples made available for the press.
Motor Week is on TV every Sunday on PBS. I watched the program on Accord last Sunday.
The salesman did his best with what he had. However, there was no way in the world that I can give serious consideration to a purchase because:
1. No 03 Accord brochures available.
2. Coupe will not be available until January.
3. NAV system will not be available until
January.
4. Salesman could not answer some of my
questions because there had not been
a "training session" about this car.
I am sure that there are reasons available for the above listed situation. However, I would like to do business and not listen to excuses.
Honda...if you want to sell these cars, make them available and support the people who are trying to sell them!
Anyone wants to comment on how useful it is?