Older Honda Accords

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Comments

  • daveghhdaveghh Member Posts: 495
    To me the '03 looks smaller then the '02 despite the '02 smaller size.

    Small SUV's are generally mid size SUV's of the late 90's. My 2002 CRV is just as large as most of the mid size SUV's in the late 90's! I don't need the CRV to be any bigger then it is now, but it is a better size then the first generation in my opinion.
  • alindaalinda Member Posts: 67
    I went down to the Honda Dealer convention/2003 model show yesterday. They had all the new cars there, including the Accord coupe and the Element, with many assorted add-ons. My favorite was a black on tan Accord sedan with 17 inch Honda alloys, the tv/dvd system, decklid spoiler, ground effects and fog lights. Very sharp. The Accord coupes look 10 times better in person than in the pictures, and I liked how they look in the pictures. The sport coupe is awesome. Feels like a four seat S2000. The Element looks even boxier than in the photos, but it is so cute -- girls are going to like it even more than the guys, I think. The thing is huge inside with the rear seats flipped up. In one of them, they'd flipped up the rear seats and set a Honda scooter inside -- very roomy. Anyone have any questions about how the new stuff looks?
  • seafseaf Member Posts: 339
    I test drove a 2003 Accord EX 2.4L I4 saturday and have to say the engine is very nice, the i-vtec definitely improves torque in the low range. I am not a fan of the current trend towards more bloaty cars with bigger engines to haul it's own fat [non-permissible content removed] along. The new accord may be bigger dimension-wise, but just by looking at it, it didn't LOOK bloaty like cars such as the Toyota Avalon.



    As for V6s, if you really want a performance car, get a smaller, lighter car with high-performance engines to increase the torque to weight ratio. But a V6 on a family sedan is not something I'm a fan of. If people just learned to drive smoother (such as leaving more space in traffic), they wouldn't need to smash the brakes and then smash on the gas to resume the tail-gating, and thus the 'need' for more gas-guzzling engines may not be such an important factor for your everyday commuter.
  • inemerinemer Member Posts: 44
    Yesterday at lunch, tuck two my friends with me and get down to local Honda Dealer. It was 4 LX and 2 EX on lot, no coups. All made in Japan. I ask were all V6 sedans, AND dealer told me that they have only two on Sunday and sold them in 20 minutes. I ask for EX-L and four of as hit the road. We have AC turn on and like I sad it was four of as, car accelerates very well, and I didn’t notice engine noise. Sticker price for EX-L was $24,330. Both my friends were not very impressing with the car (both of them not Honda owners) and one more thing come true – just add $2000 and you can get from Carsdirect.com Infinity I35 for $26,389. I like new dashboard and radio/AC panel. I can say, that compare to my ’98 Accord this one look much better in all direction: fit, finish, ergonomics. But I will never call this car a sport sedan. Nice family sedan YES, sport – no way.
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    Ya, and you know you won't be able to get below list anytime soon.

    I personally can't see ever buying an V6 Accord, there are just too many better choices when you get into that range.
  • bklynguybklynguy Member Posts: 275
    My mom's 1986 Camry ( built in Japan ) has 223,000 miles ( about 13,000 miles a year ), we only had to fix the A/C a few years back.

    She looked at the 2002 Camry but is really interested in the new Accord ( EX V6 in Redondo Red Pearl with CD/MP3 player by the way ) MORE POWER than the Camry, more audio options, nicer interior are major differences for her.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    I think ickes_mobile has given you the best advice -- use subscriptions rather than bookmarks.

    To read more, check this out Using Subscriptions, Bookmarks and Message Center - that's a section of the Town Hall Help file which you'll find linked on the left sidebar of this page.

    If you do prefer bookmarks over subscriptions, I don't see any way to get them to show up ahead of subscriptions, but you could cancel all of your subscriptions (if you have any) and then ensure that "Show only subscriptions with new messages" is checked in the option list at the bottom of the Message Center page. That should get rid of the subscription display altogether.

    I hope this helps.
  • jar1945jar1945 Member Posts: 22
    I have decided on the 4 cylinder vehicle as it drives nicely, has enough power for me, looks great from the inside and out (except for the rear end which I won't see when driving :).

    So, Ex or Lx? I am a safety nut after having been hit 3 times in 18 years (honda's crumble zones work very well). Aside from all of the other extras on the EX which I can take or leave, the disc brakes and the abs w/extra safety feature sounds like a reason for going with the EX. Can anyone tell me in laymen's terms what the brake difference does in terms of real stopping difference and is there really a difference with all discs and this extra computerized gizmo?

    Thanks!
  • cedarparkcedarpark Member Posts: 26
    With the 2003 Accords hitting the lot and being in such demand, is Honda going to offer special financing on '02 models like Toyota is doing?

    Curious as to if anyone knows.
  • tanveermtanveerm Member Posts: 42
    I think you might have missed the boat. Honda was offering generous incentives on the '02s throughout August, including cashback and discount financing, but I think it is over now. Scroll back a few weeks in this forum and the "How much did you for an Accord?" forum for all the talk on what pricing people were getting last month. This month, any discounts on the few remaining 02's are likely from the dealer only.
  • bodydoublebodydouble Member Posts: 801
    "personally can't see ever buying an V6 Accord, there are just too many better choices when you get into that range."

    Such as (American cars excluded)?
  • ecarmackecarmack Member Posts: 161
    The dealers in the Midwest told me they still had the $1,250 incentive.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    I went to our Honda store on Saturday to check out the new Accord (I work at the Toyota store) they had 10 of them and they were in the back lot (not hidden) Because obviously they want to move the last of the 02's out. But anyway, there was an 02 parked next to an 03 and the 03 looked smaller, more compact. Good looking car, didn't get to drive any as the keys weren't being released to the salespersons until monday when the car officially went on sale. Overall the car is very nice. I didn't care for the squared off center console or only having a keyhole on the driver's door and not the passenger's door. I guess they figure, "use the remote" but batteries do run down and sometimes you want to get stuff out of the glove box so it's convenient to open the passenger door. The trunk looks better in person than in the picture. Alloys on ex look good. They got a winner. I don't think it will hurt Camry sales though, looks like Honda is going for the younger buyer like Nissan is doing with the Altima. Camry is still for people in the late 40's to mid 50's.

    : )

    Mackabee
  • cedarparkcedarpark Member Posts: 26
    Sorry to see that I missed it. I've obviously only very recently become serious about a new vehicle, due to my current car becoming too unreliable and leaving me stranded on the side of the road twice.

    Second question, I hesitate to ask as I've posted it in a few other forums (forgive me for cross posting).

    Is the paint on 2002 Accords holding up? Up until now I had really favored the 2002 Camry over the Accord due to the fact that I actually like the soft ride (and I'm not old), and the current low interest rates.

    However, apparently the 2002 Camry has gone down in quality, esp. in paint jobs. Some are hoping its first year runs, but enough have complained that its frightening me away from the car.

    How are Honda's paint jobs holding up?
  • eforemaneforeman Member Posts: 13
    Just a quick thanks to ickes_mobile and the sysop for responding to my previous message. Thanks for the info.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    I was just on the Honda website made some comparisons with the Accord and the Camry, quite a few discrepancies shown between the LX vs LE and the EX vs XLE.

    Mackabee
  • seafseaf Member Posts: 339
    I was in a similar situation trying to decide between a 4cylinder EX or LX. And I've decided on the LX based on the following reasons:

    1) LX is about $2k cheaper
    2) EX has the moonroof, which I don't value much, plus it reduces headroom, might even reduce roof structure's rigidity.

    3) EX has nicer audio system (6CD changer) and alloy wheels. I'm not an audio nut, and you have more selection in aftermarket alloy wheels at lower prices.

    4) Safety-wise, the EX is on par with the LX except for EBD (electronic brake force distribution) which may or may not help improve stopping distances. The EBD just makes sure each caliper on the four wheels apply the same force on the discs when you step on the brakes. Versus regular hydraulic lines which may apply slightly more force on a wheel's discs if there's more pressure in those hydraulic valves. I think unless for some odd reason the hydraulic pressures get way out of wack, all the lines should have very similar pressure. If the EBD uses brake by electronic wires, then that reduces overall weight and maybe improves reliability since wires are more reliable than hydraulic lines. And IF the EX 4cylinder had side curtain airbags then I'd consider EX more, but it being an option only on EX V6...that's in another price range.

    5) The EX has disc brakes in the rear, on paper that means better stopping distances, but when a car is traveling forward and the brakes are applied, about 70% of the braking force is done with the front brakes, which are discs on LX too. So the rear disc brakes on EX provide maybe 10% better stopping power, and that's assuming they're twice as good as the drum brakes.

    So based on these points, I've decided to get an LX instead of an EX since it's not worth the extra $2k for ME, others may value the options on EX more than me.
  • ickes_mobileickes_mobile Member Posts: 675
    Has anyone else tried the shore video clips on the Honda website. WASTE OF TIME. They're so brief and don't really show the car doing anything worth watching. The 360 view of the car is pretty good how they set the angles of the car as you rotate it to get the best look.
  • seafseaf Member Posts: 339
    The honda website specs say the 2003 Accord has Cd of 0.3, that seems kinda high for the amount of noise reduction in the new model, unless Honda used some really nice sound dampening material. But improving coefficient of drag has other benefits such as better fuel economy AND less wind noise. I think the camry has 0.28 and the euro accord has 0.26. It sure LOOKS sleeker than the specs say. I hope it's just an error on the website like the one about automatics being 4speed.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    adam- Perhaps this will do the trick:

    jfigueroa1 "Honda CR-V" Oct 17, 2002 10:11am
  • qguqgu Member Posts: 93
    Here are the numbers


    Accord HP 240@6250, TORQUE 212@5000

    Camry HP 192@5300, TORQUE 209@4400


    I have not looked at Accord's power curve yet. It is quite possible that Accord V6 outputs same amount HP at 5300. From the numbers above, I do not see any advantages for Accord's V6. If Accord runs faster it must be the 5sp transmission.


    Accord was on TV last Sunday (PBS Motor Week). Here is a link to the report. They clocked the V6 LX for 8 seconds from 0 to 60 mph. That was not impressive. Camry can do 0-60mph in 8.1 seconds.


    http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2201.shtml

  • jguojguo Member Posts: 49
    Hmmm, 240hp vs. 192hp, that's 25% more. It's a HUGE edge.

    I don't know how MW got 8sec 0-60Mph on the new V6. The old Accord V6 got below 8sec with just 200hp.

    0-60Mph for new V6 Accrod from other sources:
    Motor Trend: 6.5
    Car & Driver 7.2
  • qguqgu Member Posts: 93
    You have to look at the power curve. By the time you get all 240 horses, you are at 6250 rpm and your Accord is probably smoking. Look at the torques. Camry gets 209 at 4400 while Accord gets 212 at 5000 rpm.

    As for the numbers from MT and C&D, it is well known that whoever pays the big $ gets the best numbers.

    Here is link to 2002 Camry review from the same source. The 02 Camry has far shorter stopping distance from 60-0mph.

    http://www.mpt.org/motorweek/reviews/rt2104.shtml

    Consumer Report Buyer's Guide has 03 Accord rated below 02 Camry in every configuration including V6. Remember Consumer Report is least likely to be brought.

    BTW, I own 2 Hondas including my MDX. I have never owned a Toyota. I have no intention to make Toyota look better.
  • jguojguo Member Posts: 49
    Well look at the Torque curve, the Accord V6 gets >200 lb-ft between 4000 and 6500 rpm, that's a very flat torque curve.

    I don't know what you mean by smoking accord. Except I think a V6 Accord will smoke the V6 Camry any day.

    Also for maximum acceleration , HP is the main factor. And also it's better to produce peak torque higher RPM than lower if you wish to have maximum acceleration.
  • jguojguo Member Posts: 49
    I can believe that a car magazine's review can be influenced by advertising dollars. However, I don't believe any car magazine will make up numbers for things like 0-60mph times.

    Unlike many people, I actually find Consumer Report car review to be very informative and useful. Even so, being a review, they have their own criteria, which may or may not be the same as mine. So I will use it just another source of information, no more or less important than other car magazines.
  • moonkatmoonkat Member Posts: 265
    qgu:
    I too enjoy CU objectivity, and find their numbers helpful for real world acceleration comparisons....from stop & at idle (no power braking - stepping on throttle & brake at same time to launch car).

    CU 0-60 for 02 Camry is 8.6 sec. You can't pick the best number for the Camry (8.1....never heard that one before), and worst number for the Accord. To be fair, vehicles from the same model year should be compared. So we don't yet have an 03 Camry vs Accord comparo.

    Also, you can't look at max hp or torque at rpm now that Honda has shifted the engine technology paradigm with vtec. Nowadays you have to compare entire torque & hp curves.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    alinda- I would like to know more about the Element you sat in! I have no general question, but if you can elaborate more in the Element forum (under SUVs), I'd love to read about it.
  • ecarmackecarmack Member Posts: 161
    In the past 2 days I have test driven an Accord V6, 4 cylinder 5 speed, and a Camry SE 4 cylinder 5 speed.

    Stating the obvious, the power of the Accord V6 was great, but for less money, the 4 cylinder with the 5 speed had enough power for me and I enjoy shifting. Plus, I get the better gas mileage and nicer looking wheels (EX). I thought the car, even with the 4 cylinder, was quieter than the previous generation and comparable to the Camry. I loved the driving position with the telescoping steering wheel, and the comfort of the 8 way adjustable leather seats. Honda must really be proud of this Accord, as that is one big "H" on the front of the car.

    Knowing I could get the Camry at invoice with 2.9% financing, I thought I would also try it out. First off, the Camry feels like a really big car compared to the Accord. I know the dimension are bigger, but the open interior layout adds to the feeling. I preferred the more closed in cockpit feel of the Accord. I was impressed with the suspension on the SE. It definetly handled better than other Camrys I have owned and driven in the past. The Camry also had plenty of power with the 4 cylinder, 5 speed combination. For me, I did not think the seats in the Camry, with the short bottom cushion, were as comfortable as the Accord's.

    Overall, I preferred the Accord, and will probably purchase a Silver EX 4 cyl, 5 speed with leather once I can track one down at a decent price.
  • bodydoublebodydouble Member Posts: 801
  • number11number11 Member Posts: 2
    I'm looking for pictures of the 2003 5-speeed accord sedan interior. As far as I can tell the Honda website has pictures of the 6-speed coupe and the auto sedan interiors only.
  • ickes_mobileickes_mobile Member Posts: 675
    I was looking for pics of the cloth seats in the sedan, but haven't seen any, even on the brochure. Will just have to visit the dealer I guess...
  • number11number11 Member Posts: 2
    Take a look at the pics on collegehillshonda.com. They posted some of the official Honda photos, including ones showing a sedan's cloth interior. Don't let this stop you from checking it out in person, though :)
  • regfootballregfootball Member Posts: 2,166
    outdoor only at late hour.

    interior looks very spacious....dash is higher and larger......has a shape and layout like a cross between the Diamante and larger version of Protege. Plastics not overly rich looking, but not cheap either. Climate control switches look very nice. Interior assembly quality is excellent. Seat cloth and armrest area look chintzy.

    Rear end looks stubby but overall car looks sleek and 'edgy'. Front end defintiely Asian.

    Overall good looking but honestly not a stunner, interior or exterior. But if its a good car, hey, its good.

    Better looking than Camry, that's for sure.
  • icstarsicstars Member Posts: 18
    Ecarmak, I found your comments interesting. I have also driven an 02 Camry SE 4cyl (if it had a 5-speed, I probably would have bought it already) and Honda Accord 03 LE auto. (Unfortunately, the EX wasn't available for test drive. The salesperson told me they were walking off the lot at msrp.)

    That aside, I was disappointed by the 2003 Accord LE. My test drive notes--which I made before the salesman showed his true colors--include: driver's seat stiff and uncomfortable, 4cyl engine whine apparent during acceration activity (start from stop, resume accel on city streets and on-ramps), tire sing and thrump on highway cruising near 65-70 mph, some tire squeal on strong braking and loose pavement, very apparent lean on turns.

    Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to find out if perhaps I chose the wrong Honda to test drive--I'm definitely looking for a sportier sedan. The salesman walked away from me the *moment* he determined I wasn't interested in buying that Accord! (No thanks, no handshake!!...I'm still amazed and offended.) Other questions not answered by absent salesman--is the EX likely to improve on any of these issues, with larger tires and possibly upgraded interior? I understand the suspension is the same on all the 03 Accords.

    KK
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    I went back to the local dealer in my area today with my mom. Her intent was to look at the Odyssey and my intent was to look at the Accords. As soon as we pulled into the parking lot, a lady in her late 40s was leaving in a brand new Accord LX in Eternal, even it looked good! I parked my old 1992 Accord right beside a leftover 2002 model and observed to similarities.... Those two cars looked quite similar to one another.

    Anyway, Mama looked at the Odysseys and decided to get an EX with Cloth in Havasu (Sp?) Blue. The salesmen went straight to one of his notebooks on his desk, and told my mother that she could order one and it would be here in 1-2 months. So were are now getting the Odyssey and I have to wait until GRADUATION before I get a new car, which is FINE by me actually. I later asked the salesmen if they had a waiting list for the Accord and he replied, "No, we don't have a waiting list for the Accord or the Civic because they are our mass-produced cars, they ship as many as they want to us." What was that again about paying MSRP? He was ready to deal on the EXV6 in Desert Sand sitting on the lot! Unfortunately for me, I want the EX-L with 5spd manual, no automatics for me.

    I did get to sit inside the Accord EXV6 though, and boy is that interior nice, I cannot say that enough. I really really want the new Accord.

    The brochures suck to me though. Where are the pictures of the other models? All I see are pics of the EXV6. In last year's brochure, there were pics of LX, LXV6, EX and EXV6 models, why just the EXV6 this time? Also they only had one good shot of the interior. They could have at least taken a picture of the EXV6 with Ivory interior and the LX or DX with Gray so that you can get an idea of what the interior trims look like in the car, instead of looking at the samples in the book. I see cost cutting!

    Also, this particular dealership had just gotten an EX-L with automatic. It was graphite gray and beautiful. The black leather looks nice on the Silver models, but I like the Gray leather that comes with the Graphite Gray color too. I like the Ivory also because it's darker than last year's Ivory and the seats look sportier.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    I'm not referring to its weight, but to its bulk. An inch here and an inch there with every generation keeps on adding up. My only objection is to the size of the Accord, not to its other Honda attributes.
    Are you sure you're talking about 2003 Accord? One of the remarks I made while looking at 2002 and 2003 Accord standing side-by-side was that the new version actually looks smaller! The dash is slightly higher, but that is something from inside out.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    I love the new Accord. Classy exterior and lovely interior. Tight, solidly assembled and fabulous thunk shut feel from the doors. Even the roofliner was inviting to touch. Leather was nice, so was the slide forward feature of the central armrest. The upper part of the seat cushion is slightly longer, and overall comfort has improved. Beautiful dash/lighting, and the 3D effect on speedometer was nice touch.

    Sat in LX and EX-L. The cloth interior is nice, as are the door inserts (even with cloth). Good car, and excellent value, IMO.

    Wish... cover for cupholder, and slightly lower dash for a more airy feel (like the current Accord). But that is nothing compared to what the new version offers. Great job Honda.
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    max- That's funny what you said about the Odyssey. I remember when we were looking at minivans, the dealer had like 3 sitting there and when it was time to deal, he tried the same notebook thing. We were like "couldn't you have told us that we test drove a floor sample so we wouldn't think that we remotely had a chance to drive it home today!!!?"
  • diploiddiploid Member Posts: 2,286
    "Unfortunately, I didn't get a chance to find out if perhaps I chose the wrong Honda to test drive--I'm definitely looking for a sportier sedan."

    You probably did. Everything that you were disappointed about in the Accord seems to be its strengths (especially the comments about the seats) according to all the articles and a lot of the posters who also test drove the car.

    Also, Accords don't come in LE trim. Not even in Canada. Camrys, however, do come in LE trim. Perhaps you did test drive the wrong car?
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    i was under the impression that consumer reports purchases their cars from the dealership for testing. therefore, how can there possibly be a road test on the 03 accord available since the accord has been on sale for only two days? can someone confirm that such a road test exists. is someone confusing an accord 02 with the accord 03 from an old road test? do we have some toyota moles over here? that's it.
  • venus537venus537 Member Posts: 1,443
    so there's better values in the 03 accord V6 price range. Like what? the impala the intrigue the grand prix They're not even in the game.
  • parker19parker19 Member Posts: 59
    i need a new car and i am looking at either getting a new ex(no v-6) or an audi a-4 quattro with sunroof ... the difference in money is about $7000 ... the audi has nicer styling but what else is there about the audi that makes it so much more ... thanks
  • dindakdindak Member Posts: 6,632
    "Such as (American cars excluded)?"

    Why would I exclude American cars? I know many here are anti-American, but my experience with them has been no better or worse than my experience with my Hondas.
  • ecarmackecarmack Member Posts: 161
    Yes, seat comfort varies by individual, but I find a firm seat to be much more comfortable, especially over long distances. Also, the seat will soften up some over time.

    The eight-way power seats, seemed to go farther back than the ones that adjust manually. Maybe it was just my imagination.

    I think the LX and EX have the same Michelin MXV4 tires, just different sizes, so I wouldn't expect a dramatic improvement in noise or handling between the two. The Michelin MXV4 tires (I don't think they are MXV4 'Plus' now), do tend to be louder than other tires, but they have a good treadlife. The Camry SE comes with 160 rated performance Bridgestones, which would probably have to be replaced within a year.

    As far as the quietness of the 4cyl, comparing it to the 99 5spd I owned, I thought it was better. But you may be able to tell a difference comparing it to the Camry.

    Concerning prices on the Accord, there is one dealership locally (that recently took the name of a famous Indy car owner), that has tacked on thousands of dollars in dealer installed options on every Accord, Odyssey and Pilot on its lot. It is quite laughable, especially considering none of the other dealers here do that. That dealer has the best location, but people just need to shop around. One dealer said he will order any Accord for $500 off, and another already has 40 on his lot and is willing to negotiate. I am waiting on a call back today.
  • talon95talon95 Member Posts: 1,110
    You are correct that Consumer Reports buys its test cars from dealerships, and does not reveal their magazine affiliation, to avoid getting a ringer from the manufacturer.

    The latest issue has a general "What's new for 2003" article that gives the same kind of general info about the Accord that has been available since the end of July. No test has been performed yet.

    Are you confusing Consumer Reports with Consumer Guide? The latter has printed test results for the 2003 Accord based on the early samples made available for the press.
  • mcgreenxmcgreenx Member Posts: 179
    On the CR issue, I've subscribed for decades, still do and intend to continue, but their so-called "judgments" are worthless, and I only consider their ratings in broad strokes. They have to have a winner, it sells magazines, this dryer is "best," that car is "best," but whatever the category, cars or dishwashers, items that are "clumped" together must be considered comparable. Similar model Hondas, Camrys and VWs are all great cars. If you chose one over the other you probably think your choice is the "best," it's human nature (unless you got a lemon). The real value of CR, IMHO, is it's frequency of repair and reliability ratings, and even in that category, you have to be careful to look at the underlying data to make sure there is a significant difference between rating groups.
  • qguqgu Member Posts: 93
    Thanks. I did not pick the worst number for Accord and best number for Camry. I just forwarded the numbers BOTH measured by Motor Week. They did clocked the 03 V6 Accord 8.0 seconds and 02 V6 Camry 8.1 seconds. How they did the tests is anybody's guess. If both tests are under same conditions, I would say Accord is just comparable with Camry in terms of performance.

    Motor Week is on TV every Sunday on PBS. I watched the program on Accord last Sunday.
  • azstanazstan Member Posts: 74
    I dropped into the local dealer to look at the new Accord. I had telephoned to verify that they had 03 Accords available.

    The salesman did his best with what he had. However, there was no way in the world that I can give serious consideration to a purchase because:

    1. No 03 Accord brochures available.
    2. Coupe will not be available until January.
    3. NAV system will not be available until
    January.
    4. Salesman could not answer some of my
    questions because there had not been
    a "training session" about this car.

    I am sure that there are reasons available for the above listed situation. However, I would like to do business and not listen to excuses.

    Honda...if you want to sell these cars, make them available and support the people who are trying to sell them!
  • alindaalinda Member Posts: 67
    whaddaya wanna know? i think i've got a pretty good handle on new specs. sadly, though, the coupes and navs aren't available yet. but the coupes, except for the six speed and without the nav, should be out mid fall.
  • dshenmdyndshenmdyn Member Posts: 34
    Disappointed that only the most expensive model has side curtain airbag.

    Anyone wants to comment on how useful it is?
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