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Check out the News & Views board - if there is not a current discussion on the car mags, it's probably time to start another one.
I smell a loaded question and "invalid" comparison. But I love "invalid" comparisons so here's my answer:
They both suck.
I also find myself wondering if the tooling for the E39 is still in existence. Ohhhh, an E39 545i with all of the technology and the Rack and Pinion steering of the E60, sans I-Drive of course would be just too much to ask for.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Windoze is another matter. I'm on a computer most of the day, and I can't seem to escape Windoze. I'm a self-employed software developer and the misbehavior of Windoze has cost me plenty of time and money. But, if that's what the customer has, I need to work with it.
My initial comment was because I don't begrudge someone making money. I do think BMWs have started skipping to the wrong beat (luxury vs. sport), but I'm VERY glad they are a player. Seems to me you can't out lexus Lexus. I'd focus on sport.
Happy Trails,
Jack
Similar to what MB did when w211 sedan was introduced, they kept w210 wagon along with w211 sedans. The only difference is that they sold both models in the US, and BMW chose not to.
1)Is getting premium sound worth it?
2)Is Xenon upgrade worth it?
3) does anyone have silver/grey metallic color? How do they like it?
Thanks in advance
I would say that xenons are definitely worth it (I think this may eventually be standard on all cars).
My '02 530i is Titanium Silver, very light colored. Statistically, I think silver is the most popular car color, with one principal virtue being it greatly masks dirt. But I debated getting Sterling Gray metallic at the time (I call it sort a "pewter" color), and I think if buying today, that's what I'd get. To my eye, it has an understated elegance.
Designman, at the risk of Pat/host booting me, Consumer Reports has every right to act like it has a monopoly on critiquing value, especially compared to the "buff books" we all read, in view of its "no advertising" policy. Last time I checked R&T and C&D (I admit I subscibe to both) they were LOADED with ads from all of the manufacturers--and it shows, they NEVER say anything BAD about any car! Ever! Oh sure, we all know how to read between the lines, but unvarnished criticism is a very rare bird. And if my livelihood depended on ad revenue, I doubt I'd be any more inclined to be critical on the record.
1 – Is getting premium sound worth it?
Biggest waste of money IMO. Premium sound may be worth it if you are into bass-thumping reggae, hip hop etc. as are the kids who rattle your brains from 1/4 mile away with their subwoofers. Good music is about good mid-range speakers and the sound system that comes with the 5-series has them. Most instrumentation including voice falls within the mid-range spectrum. Subwoofers and tweeters are for detail at the extremes, and the extremes are for SUPPORTING instruments such as stand-up bass, bass guitar, contra bassoon, snare drums, cymbals, etc. Premium sound adds extreme speaker capabilities. In your house this will add great subtle color and presence to the sound, but in a car, this subtlety is drowned out by road noise and speaker positioning. The way these kids use subwoofers is ridiculous. I wonder if either Beethoven, the Beach Boys or Bill Evans ever rang a bell with them. I also find that most people don’t balance their sound properly anyway, compounded by the issue that it not easy to balance sound in a car correctly. Save your money, or put it toward the sound in your home.
2 – Is Xenon upgrade worth it?
I love the Xenons, but can live without them and can see someone not wanting to spend the money. I have three cars and only my 530 has them. I don’t miss the Xenons when I drive the other two.
3 - Does anyone have silver/grey metallic color? How do they like it?
I have silver with black interior. I do not like the grey interior at all. But color is strictly your choice. I guess there is also an argument for resale but if you lease it’s a non-issue. Silver is the most popular color and I like it also, but I also like others. Just get what YOU like even if you buy.
Sdg380 I don’t think Pat will boot us because we have relevant 5-series talk within our posts. Personally, I believe the more opinions from the media the better, regardless of the quality. In the end I will determine this for myself. Also, just because CR is not financed by advertising doesn’t mean they are always right. As far as I am concerned they missed the mark with my Subaru. I had a feeling about this and so far after 51k trouble-free miles I was right. Also many people fail to realize that past performance of a car manufacturer does not guarantee the future. They call the 530 the best sedan they ever tested? Yeah I love it, but I also have a nice list of things that piss me off about it things they never mentioned in their evaluations. CR is OK, but not as good as some people think they are.
And by the way, I listen to music ranging from classical, through African, through reggae, rock and jazz Add some swing, a little Sinatra and you have a great road trip. No country, no opera.
ny540i6, I can tell you are probably music aficionado/audiophile, but I think you misread my post. I have a feeling that you and I are not too far off in our perception/assessment of music and sound. I'd like to continue the discussion but don't have the time right now to get into it and there is a lot involved... in my mind anyway. I will however leave off with this. If you can really savor the premium sound, then yes indeed, it is worth every penny and I am convinced you probably fit the profile. But having observed many peoples listening habits, I think it is a waste of money for most, more of a profit center for the auto makers. This is a good conversation though... surprised it hasn't happened sooner.
:-)
I am new in this forum. Would someone tell me where the location of all the speakers? So far, I found two in the back, two tweater on the A-pillar, and the other two on the front door. I found a subwoofer place holder in the middle of the dash board, and could be another little speaker place holder under the foot well of the driver side.
Also, my cd player goes back to track 1 80% of the time and my car pulls to the right a little bit. I need to bring it to my dealer tomorrow.
Thanks,
The sunshade is something I use just about every day. It has proved to be a useful option, especially on days that I must park my car in the sun. I feel it helps protect the leather as well as keep the car cooler. My kids are thankful for the side shades as well. No more complaining about the sun in their faces.
Best wishes in your 5 series pursuit.
Question: are these two features worth having to buy a set of wheels and tires from Tire Rack and finding a place to store them so you can swap them out when the season demands it?
Also, anybody have any opinion on comfort seats?
Third, the heads up display looks like a hilarious joke. For $1000 you get to be distracted while you drive.
The E60 though is a new beast. Brings completely new options to the table. You really should take a thorough TEST DRIVE to see if it is what you are looking for.
Regardless of Sport Pkg, you should get dedicated snow tires for this or any RWD car if you live in snow belt and have snow concerns. (Not sure any tire really does well on ice, but snows best there, too.)
First, compared with most cars, BMW's provide very sporting ride and handling in base trim. And here in the Midwest, with our winter-ravaged roads, extra-firm suspension and low-profile tires just detract from ride comfort, IMHO (and invite dented rims).
Next, the sport package is far from free, so there's definitely a cost factor--not sure is does much for resale. This is apart from springing for a extra set of wheels and tires, but the major drawback there, apart from the added cost in my opinion, is the inconvenience of having to swap twice a year. And I live in a condo, so storage is an issue for me, maybe you, too, maybe not.
Active Roll Stabilization seems to be a pretty worthwhile concept for spirited driving, but not essential, and is not a stand-alone option. I'd say the jury is definitely out on Active Steering. A novel concept, to be sure, and maybe we'll see it on all cars in the future (like ABS), but the reviews have definitely been mixed. Again, it's not available alone, and perhaps more significantly, it CANNOT be turned off (I think ARS can be, but not sure.)
Like many cars, options can drive the price of a 5 sky high. While I'm all for getting "the" car you want for this kind of dough, I just don't think the Sport Package is so essential, unless that's just high up your list, such as for drivers like Riez. But I think you'll have a very fine, quite sporty car without it.
Finally, the Conti-touring tires that were stock on my '02 530 have been perfectly adequate in the snow, as were the all-season performance Perilli's on my previous 525--and I've driven both in some pretty crummy weather. My point is I do not think you automatically have to go to the trouble of switching to snow tires, even in the snow belt, so in my mind, the Sport Package includes this added chore/inconvenience.
No barrage of criticism, please, I might very well sing a different tune if I lived in a dry climate with smooth roads (but that still doesn't change the mixed reviews on Active Steering.) And I haven't touched on any potential reliability/maintenance issues, but I don't think those can be dismissed out of hand, after all, this is new technology. But Riez is right, of course, it's your $$$, so you must test drive.
Regards
regards,
kyfdx
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1. Snow tires. Here is Roundel Tech Talk Editor Mike Miller in the February 2004 issue (p. 100):
"It's not enough for me to just be able to get around in snow; I need to travel extensively in winter, in the mountains of [Penn.] and on Interstate road trips, fast and with authority. If a deer jumps in front of you at 70 mph on snow...the extra stopping traction afforded by snow tires may be the difference between [something pleasant] and a night full of hurt upside down in a cold white ditch. ... I wouldn't consider not fitting four snow tires for winter in this part of the [NE]. But obviously people have different service demands on their vehicles. If you're just puttering back and forth to work twice a day in traffic-clogged [NJ], then I don't blame you for running the same tires year round--I probably would, too. If it really snowed, I'd just stay home!"
2. As for Sport Package, here is Bimmer magazine's 12/01 road test report on a 525i manual with Sport Pkg:
"We were cheered further to find that it was equipped with the Sport Package. ... all of which would bring the car's sporting capabilities to the fore. It's always fun to drive a new BMW, but we knew right away that this one was going to be better than usual. ... The 525i showed off the athleticism conferred by that Sport Package. ... We also appreciated the extra grip afforded by the 8 x 17-inch wheels that came with the Sport Package, and the sticky 235s that surround them."
[There is no comparison between the rather mediocre ContiTouringContact and dedicated high performance tires like ContiSportContact 1s or 2s or Michelin Pilot Sports. Just review test results from same BMWs with these respective tires. Check out the latest C&D, which tests a 325i manual with Sport Pkg.]
Bimmer magazine's 12/01 road test: It's always fun to drive a new BMW...
"There is no comparison between the rather mediocre ContiTouringContact and dedicated high performance tires"...you've got me there Riez, just try those performance skins in the snow!
And Riez, I think you'll have to admit that Active Steering is just a different kettle of fish all-together.
If someone can afford a $45-60,000 E60 5 Series, can't they afford winter tires? Are two trips to the dealer such a big deal? Just time at least one with some other work that needs to be done.
Please note that all my above comments on the Sport Pkg have been geared to the E39 5 Series and the E46 3 Series. (I'd also apply them to the E38 7 Series.) BUT the E60 Sport Pkg adds some complicated electronic stuff that I have no experience with. I'm NO fan of the E60. Exterior styling doesn't bother me too much (though it is not as good as the E39), and the interior is too "feminine" for my taste, but the PRICE and GADGETS seem way out of whack. I'd be afraid to own a 1st year one and afraid to own one out of warranty. Give me a simpler car that brings pure driving pleasure!
"The E60 though is a new beast. Brings completely new options to the table. You really should take a thorough TEST DRIVE to see if it is what you are looking for."
That is exactly what I'd do. IF I had the money (the E60 is a bit too pricey for me), I'd most likely get the Sport Pkg. The point of a BMW for me is driving pleasure. Skip Prem Pkg; get Sport Pkg. But I'd also prefer BMW's cloth seats and manual seat adjustment!
BMW of old: SPORT & luxury.
BMW today: LUXURY & sport.
Northern VA huh? From what I see on the news you don't get nearly as much snow as we do here in NY. You maybe get one or two really bad stroms a year, correct? If that is the case, get the SP, enjoy the car for the other 360 days of the year and call in sick or use mass transit when the weather is bad.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Then there's the safety aspect as mentioned before.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
Re winter tires: I can't imagine anyone driving in winter conditions without winter tires. I've driven through snow storms and winter conditions to ski areas for many weekends and there's no problem at all. I've seen many SUVs, Porsches, and other passengers cars in the ditch or overturned due to glare ice or wet snow - they're likely over driving the road conditions and probably do not have winter tires. I've driven 5 series autobox BMWs for the past 2 decades in snow conditions and have never been stuck (carried chains for previous models). What's $1500 for a set of good winter tires on wheels compared to the $50K plus for the car. Tires are like speakers in a good sound system. Don't compromise by using all season tires - not much use when the temperature drops significantly below freezing. Incidentally, Costco rotates your tires free of charge if they're already mounted and balanced.
Anyway, how about some feedback on Active Steering? Who's gone for a test drive, or has the E60 so-equipped, and what do you think--you know, enquiring minds.
Having never owned, driven, or much less sat in a BMW before I can offer some (I feel) unbiased opinions.
First, after test driving a new MB E32o, Acura TL, Volvo S80T6, and Lexus GS300, the BMW out-performs them all (the Acura is probably second IMO).
The differences in the ride of the sport equipped BMW versus the standard was noticeable. More so the active suspension and ride than the active steering. After driving the sport pack the salesman asked me what I thought of the active steering. I told him I did not notice it (I'm not sure if not noticing is good or bad). My wife however did notice the difference and liked it along with the sport seats.
Bottom line...I'm in the process of getting quotes for a manual 530 with sport pack, premium, cold weather,and xenons. So far the best quote is $1500 over invoice.
"the most impressive feature of the new 530i is its exceptional chassis; it's an even better driver's car than the much-esteemed E39. Excellent weight distribution and finely tuned suspension components play their part here, but it's the active steering and active anti-roll bars (both included with the optional Sport Package) that really transform this car into a devastating backroad tool...it [AS] works just as well in practice as the press kit promises...This car sets a new standard of handling excellence...phenomenal handling and brillant active steering impress us...a cutting-edge BMW sedan...clearly got the basics right with the new 5 Series. From a driver's perspective, it once again raises the bar to a level far beyond any of its competitors."
Guess they liked it? I'd love to take one for a test drive, but my local BMW dealer rarely has manual transmission cars with Sport Pkg and I refuse to get a first impression from an automatic with non-Sport. Not to mention the car is just too expensive. Even SCI complains about the cost. Their car had a $55K MSRP.
Option A:
2004 530i with PP, SP, PSP & Xenon: $53,895
Winter wheel/tire set (See Note 1): ~$1,400
Total: $55,295
Option B:
2004 530i with PP, PSP & Xenon: $50,595
Summer wheel/tire set (See Note 2): $2,992
Winter tires for OEM rims (See Note 3): $848
Total: $54,435
Difference: ~$860
Then the question becomes, would I buy the nicer seats, nicer trim and "Active" suspension goodies for $860? Yup. I guess I'd order the SP if I had to do it all over again. ;-)
Note 1: I am estimating $1,400 for a winter wheel and tire package as TireRack.com is rather thin on their inventory at the moment. FWIW, I paid $1,007 for my current package.
Note 2: I chose BBS RK 2-Piece wheels (similar to the wheels that I got on my E39) and shod them with Bridgestone Potenza S-03 tires (also similar in class to the OEM tires that came on my E39).
Note 3: The only winter tires that TireRack.com had in the 225/50 R17 size were the Pirelli Winter 210 SnowSport tires, which I also used in the "Note 1" estimate.
I don't know if this is at all helpful, but it was kind of fun to research. ;-)
Best Regards,
Shipo
Of course, if I'm going to spend 60 large on a new car, I'd probably just throw caution to the wind and pop for a new 645Ci (which I actually like the looks of), 6-Speed Manual, SP and Premium Audio at which has an MSRP of 73,900.
Best Regards,
Shipo