I second what ljflx said. We both got our cars at Ray Catena and were very happy. I was leaving an E320 lease, and looking at either the LS430 or an S430. If you go back through this discussion group you will see many others had to go through the S-class or LS decision. One advantage to Ray Catena is that they are a very high volume dealer, and I have seen many "rare" combinations of LS come through, including base cars without Lexus link. Ray Catena will try their best to make a deal. I got the 61,130 (LL,ML & Nav) for 55.6K (see post 861 for all the details). I think they were really interested in moving another unit at the end of the month when they offered that deal and might not match it every day. If they had a basic car coming in that wasn't spoken for they might give you a good number too. I don't know if 50K is doable, but from a value perspective, this is easily a 70-80K car. Ljflx went with the LS over an S500, and I felt it was better than the S430 besides being 10K less.
Are you anywhere near where that tornado hit in Manalapan? I was at the Wegman's again on Sunday to pick-up more groceries and then to eat in the restaurant inside (first time I ever ate dinner at a supermarket - it was pretty good). As I walked through the parking lot I noticed the dark sky to the northwest but it didn't look unusually threatening. Picked up my family near front entrance and then without any warning there were two close to the ground lightning strikes and very loud instant thunderbolts. Later on the news I heard about the tornado but I don't know where in Manalapan (pretty big township)it hit. My guess is it was probably well west of Wegmans along Rt. 33. Scary! I got only light rain and some minor lightning in Colts Neck.
Glad you like the car. It just gets better and better and that large trunk can handle Wegmans.
Read my post above and the one about five spots above that from ljflx. Black Cherries are very rare, and I don't know of any with other than an Ecru interior. While the brochure may tell you something is a valid combination, Lexus may not have made any with that particular combination. The salesmen have access to the production run data and can give you the % of cars made in a given color (cherry may be 2-3% or lower), and what interior was put in them. In my case with a Mystic Sea car, 100% were made with Ecru even though the gray is a valid choice in the brochure.
The brochure description of the options in the Custom and Ultra is accurate (although I'm not sure if you must also get special perforated leather for the cooled seats at an additional cost on the Custom or if it's included). The main difference is the back seat stuff. Going from memory, the Ultra may also add air variable suspension and include Lexus link. I just dug up the book -see pg 61 of the LS brochure for all the info on Custom and Ultra packages. I got a base car with Nav/ML. Customs are very, very rare. I believe an earlier post said only 30-odd were coming into the northeast this year.
I got the standard 16" wheels and year round tires. This combination with the base suspension is very comfortable, yet doesn't isolate you from the road. A salesperson or someone else with a little more knowledge about tires could tell you how the summer tires would affect the ride.
The two features I couldn't get on the base model that I really wanted were the laser cruise control and park assist. The rest of the Custom & Ultra features were not as important to me. You need to look at the different trim levels and decide what makes sense for you. If you have your heart set on a Custom in a particular color you may very well have to wait until 2002. One feature of the Ultra I didn't like was that the separate a/c for the rear compartment took up some of the trunk space.
Hope this helped - feel free to ask any other questions. If you haven't done so yet I'd be sure to go to a dealer and check the cars out. Ray Catena (Rt 35, Ocean Township) has a large selection in their showroom and in their separate storage area next to the service center, which is across the road. As of last week they had a black cherry, I saw it when I got my 1000 mi service.
No I'm not anywhere near there. I live close to Rt. 35 between Red Bank and Eatontown, just off the 4 corners (Allen House, Christ Church, Quaker meeting hall and Shrewsbury Town Hall). I can state the trunk can handle both Wegman's and Costco simultaneously, with a dose of Target thrown in!
Took delivery of my LS430 at the beginning of the weekend, so had 3 days to play. WOW! Terrific car! (Got base model w/ LL/Nav/Lev and 17" sport susp.) I would have put more miles on it, but I was busy reading the hundreds of pages of owner manuals that came with the car. I have a couple quirky observations that I'm hoping that someone can help me with. 1) When I put the car in park, the driver's door unlocks, but not the other passenger doors. Can this be changed? 2) When I park the car and turn off the keys, there is no retained power. That is, radio shuts off immediately and any open windows/moonroof cannot be closed without turning on ignition. My old car (GM) had retained power until the door was opened, which was convenient. 3) Can those warning stickers on the visors be removed without damaging the visors? 4) I understand Lexus is making a new phone available within the next 2 weeks. Does anyone have any info on that? 5) Any good reason to sign up for the premier Lexus Link service if you have the navigation package. (The only benefit, I think, is that it can save you from making a call for dinner reservations.) Finally 6) the car's engine is so very very quiet, I don't know when it's on so I find myself keeping the key on start either too long or not long enough. Any tips (right now, I look at tachometer to see if the engine's revving)? By the way, thanks all for your valuable tips and insights.
Trentpa, here are some answers to some of your questions: You can have all the locks programmed to open when the car is put in Park. Your dealer can program this for you anytime, and has for many of us.
I called several dealers and several car upholsterers and they all tell me those airbag visor labels CANNOT be removed without damage. (If anyone knows differently please let us know!)
Your power should be retained for a minute or so (or until you open a door) once you've turned off the ignition. Maybe you have to leave the key in; I don't recall, but I know I have retained power after shutting off the engine.
There is not much information regarding Lexus link advanced features and I don't think much of it. I like the basic service because if you're in an accident and your airbags deploy they will call an ambulance/police for you if you don't respond to their call to you. That safety feature alone is worth the $200.00 or so annual fee.
I see you went visiting again - and again had the door nearly slam you in the face. Do you really think they want logical comparisons? They proved that to us long ago. I felt badly at your treatment and almost jumped in, but realized we would merely make a larger target and possibly antagonize the "posting host". Off topic, but I saw an article in USA Today wherein they dissected several series finales. They basically agreed with us that our fav. show's finale was weak, but implied it was a lead-in for next year's SERIES finale.
To whoever posted about the new phone that might be available in 2 weeks - where did you hear about it and any details????? Anyone using a Valentine ONe??? Suggestions on installation and wiring. This being my 2nd request, if no one can help, I'll be forced to go off in a Snit. And we all know, no decent, self respecting Lexus owner would be seen in a Snit. They're nearly as trouble prone as an S430.
Yesterday, my dealership's service dept. told me that Lexus advised him weeks ago that the phone would be available by the end of May, so he expects to see it within a week or two. He had no additional information, except to repeat what had been posted here, that when the 430 came out, a phone was available that proved to be unsatisfactory.
Hi flint, I put the sensor at the top on the windshield just to the right of the rain sensor. You will have to modify the clip to fit between the glass and the headliner. Route the wire (hidden under the headliner) down the A pillar (between glass and molding) and under the glove compartment and attach a modular wire coupler. to this attach a short piece of modular wire to the remote which is inserted in the outlet in center console. I got some wire same color as the ecru. and of the total wiring only 3" is visable which is the piece that goes from under the console molding to the remote. Hope this helps. Of couse you can always have it hard wired but I didn't have the specs for that. Incidently the detector is practically invisible from the outside.
Thanks, sounds good to me. Mine should arrive this week. The remote you refer to - is that the remote indicator that they advertise for about $40 on the site? I didn't order one, but maybe I should have. Thanks again.
My multi-function display continues to show a 14.5 average per tankful even after I manually reset it. Lexus tech said there was no bulletin on any computer re-set of the system. What are other LS owners seeing for City MPG? Anyone seeing similar readings?
I was getting 18+ for the first month; then it has recently dropped...is this high-priced gas no good?
Yes, that is the remote. The advantage of the remote is that lights only show on the remote, not the detector. Especially advantagious when driving in DC or Virginia where you won't want the stealth property to be defeated by a visual signal.
No need to jump in. They can't handle it and I'm done. Besides - as a CFO/business strategist who acquired over 30 companies I'm used to battles with far more dominating people. The reason I posted was there was a lot of jokes about the 20% discount on the old Q and here's the immortal (according to them) BMW 7 with nearly the same discount. I thought it was ironic and rather funny. I'm not the least bit surprised by the reaction. I also knew they'd never post anything that looked like a negative on the car even though knowledge of that kind of discount would help someone who's out to buy. If I were in the market for a 7 I wouldn't care if someone else didn't like the car. Merc1 writes as negative as possible everytime he can about the LS430 but can't handle the slightest negative comment on a Mercedes or BMW.
By the way when I brought my car in for service I asked them for touch-up paint for both the silver and the pine. I don't have a need for it as yet and hope I never will but its good to have around just in case. They only had the silver on hand but today in the mail I received the pine - a full two business days later. Lexus service is the best. Incidentally their touch-up paint seems like a perfect match should the need arise.
Lastly - the LS430 is catching on bigtime. In doing those deals I've maintained relationships with many very wealthy people and they are buying both the LS and the SC430 these days. Let's hope the pricepoint holds. The reliability of the car is amazing and that is what is winning the people over plus it has gained a lot in status.
Sopranos - When the old guy didn't have a heart attack I next expected the Russians to break in and start shooting. Bad ending but still a great show and the best continuous acting by so many varied characters I've ever seen. You'd think they filmed all the episodes in one shoot.
I could be wrong but I think that mileage reading on the dash is more tied to the speed you are driving. I've seen the thing range from 14 to 40 mpg when I'm on the road near my house. It seems to read the highest when you are in the 40-50mph range. On the other hand when I'm on the open highway it registers nearly a steady 23-25mpg until I slow down to pay a toll then it heads south to 10-12 mpg. I've stopped testing my gas mileage when I fill up but I was getting a consistent 25mpg on the highway and around 20mpg in street driving.
Thanks for the reply; I guess it's that "Per Tankful" reading at 14.5 MPG that's bothering me, but I think I'll just give it a rest and take a reading without re-setting for 30 days. Can you beleive this is the only thing I can find negative about the LS?....and it's probably a case of "operator error".
Heading down on 17 around Sullivan's Island (just North of Charleston)on the 9th. Hope you are well...give 'em hell on the other boards!! I still check over there just to see you shake them up...
I would agree the case of the Q45 and BMW 7-series are different.
The Q45 has historically been discounted by large amounts just to keep inventory moving because of very low demand for the product.
The BMW 7-series probably didn't have discounts for some of the 1995 model year, but I remember even in late 1995, the BMW 740 had lease incentives to move product. Of course, the discount wasn't nowhere near as large as what Infiniti gives out on Q45's.
Where the difference lies is that BMW dealers have discounted the 7-series every year to keep demand with supply. Whereas, Infiniti has to give huge discounts just to move the Q45 off of lots.
feverhart, thanks. And since I drive in DC and VA a lot (I live in Maryland), that is a good item to have - I'll have to re-order. ljflx, sadly, I do need the touch-up paint, but at least in an inconspicuous area. During my trip to Pittsburgh via the "lovely" Pa. Tpke, I got a rock on the front just below the grill. It chipped the paint completely in approx a 1/4" little circle. Must have been a direct hit! God was I angry. Hope I can come up with the black cherry paint since it's a little more rare. I still read the other 3 boards as well, just to watch the incongruity of it all. While they lavish themselves with praise, they complain of things (newest one I recall) like their S Class key has stopped working and the poor guy doesn't know if the car is locked or unlocked. Now, those are problems to complain about. While we (lucky and informed) Lexus buyers have to settle for things like computer mileage readouts and coins rattling in the coin box due to the damned quiet ride! BTW, my mileage readout situation (for wbwynn) is like that of ljflx. And when I refuel, I check the "tank average" against the gallons bought/miles driven - and it is always right on. I mean to the tenth of a mile. The other readouts are based, I think, on current driving condition (speed vs. throttle input vs. uphill, coasting, etc).
Thanks for your help on my prior questions concerning my now week-old LS430 (base model with LL/ML/Nav). Something came up last night that I thought I'd float for some guidance. I keep the headlight switch on auto, and pulled into garage last night and went into house. 10 minutes later, went into garage to get something and was amazed that lights were still on. After checking the owner's manual and finding nothing, I manually turned off the lights, then turned the switch back to auto, started car (lights came back on) and turned car off. 10 minutes later, lights remained on. Finally, I discovered that my wife's door wasn't fully closed (perhaps another reason to get the UltraLux package, with power door closers). Shortly after I closed it fully, the lights turned off. I know that you can't lock the car if one of the doors isn't fully closed, but I was surprised that the lights wouldn't turn off, if on auto, if one of the doors isn't closed. I wonder if the lights would have eventually turned off (sometime before the battery was drained). If not, can the car be re-programmed to avoid the door locking and light issue?
flint - its a combination of Abbott and Costello and the Three Stooges over there. Every new problem reminds me of someone getting hit in the face with a pie. Man am I glad I stayed away from that car.I don't think Mercedes can mass produce a car with the reliability that Lexus can and the comments they post pretty much prove it. When I was shopping both cars even the sales guy was preparing me for a drop in reliability as he knew I was coming off an LS400 lease.
trentpa - tested my retained power this morning and I have it to play the radio or maneuver the windows etc. regardless of whether I shut the car completely off or just shut it off one notch below the aux. power. When your door was open you should have been getting a chime sound inside to remind you that you had somehing wrong. I know that every now and then I fail to release my emergency brake and that chime sounds the moment I put the car in gear. My lights shutoff in about 30 seconds or so and I know Lexus can re-program this to anything you want (that was the case with the 98 car at least) but I would think the interior lights, not the headlights, would remain on if you failed to close the door. I'll see if it happens to me when I get home tonight.
You are right - it happened to me as well. I'll try to find out the cause and the fix. If you find out please post. For anyone who's wondering what we are talking about - it seems that if you accidentally leave your door open or even slightly ajar and have your headlights in auto mode the headlights don't shut off if you are in an area dark enough to cause them to go on (such as your garage). This happens even though you turn off the ignition and remove the key. I'm sure one fix is to have Lexus program the headlights to shutoff in 10-15 seconds rather than the prolonged minute or so. In the meantime make sure you close your doors solidly unless you have the door closers.
morg7 - there are two high-end boards in the comparison auto section and flint350 and I are also referring to the S-class board. Those who post on the S-class board seem to have more problems in 10 or so recent posts than in all 1200+ on this board. And if you go back in time you'll find some real amusing problems.
The 2001 LS430 is no doubt an excellent overall car, however for a car in this class I am struck by the thought that there seems to be some very basic user/operator feature/functionality missing on this premium luxury car.
I'm referring to things such as the programming of door locks and the automatic headlights. I am quite surprised that from what you all are saying, you have to have the dealer program in these options for you. And, in the case of the door locks, not all dealers seem to know how to do it! I mean, to need the dealer to program in the time delay of your headlights shutting off seems rather rediculous on a car of this caliber. That's a standard feature you can get on a Buick by adjusting the time delay yourself with a dashboard control. A one second job.
Why would Toyota Motor Corp. leave simple stuff like that off? I had read where they did extensive research and obtained exhaustive feedback from existing LS400 owners when designing the "new" LS430. Can't believe these things never came up during that research if they are coming up now with such a small representation of LS owners on this board.
Anyway, I was reading on one of these Lexus boards how Toyota cuts corners to save money in areas such as the factory tires and suspension design. Perhaps the door lock and headlight programming issues fall into that category as well. Anyway, just a point of discussion. I am sure you are right about the Mercedes having much more serious issues. I know several present and former Mercedes owners who have had all kinds of problems.
I live in Southern California and, as many of us are out here, I am an avid fan of cars.
I am curious if, with the new design of the LS with the '01 LS430, the average age of LS430 owners has risen from what it was with the previous model. In my observations, of ALL the LS430's I have seen on the road, they were being driven by a senior citizen. Literally, not 50 years old (I'm 38, so that ain't old to me anymore :>)), but senior citizens.
I recently went to the Motor Trend/Cadillac test drive where, among the Cads and Mercs and BMWs, there was an LS430. The LS430 seemed to appeal the most to the older people in the crowd. I mean, I really observed that. The oldest guy in the crowd was crooning over it.
Anyway, this is just a demographic observation. What do you guys think? I don't think it has anything to do with the price increase, since I see many younger folks driving even more expensive 740iL's and S500's, etc. I think even the Cadillac DeVille, especially the DTS model, appeals more to a younger set (at least in exterior design) than the LS430. I know it would to me.
I've only seen 'older' people driving LS430s (and I'm 40, by the way - oh and I admit I don't own an LS430 yet - I just enjoy hanging out here).
I was at my dealer today and a guy in a new LS430 was in front of me checking in with his service advisor. He was probably around 60 years old I'd guess. Anyway I asked him how he liked his LS430 and he immediately beamed "this is the best investment I've ever made!" That's quite a statement about such a depreciating asset! :-)
(I think he was in for a problem with the Lexus Link by the way)
On a separate note - I sat in an SC430 today, and while the interior is nice and immediately familiar to any Lexus owner, I still can't fathom why they bothered putting in the COMPLETELY USELESS rear seats... yes I've heard the 'insurance' reason, but that makes no sense on a $60K car. Also, the trunk space is a joke - you could barely fit two grocery bags back there I'd guess!
I purchased a black cherry Ultra LS 430 with bordeaux interior, and I'm 39. I was never interested in the LS 400 because the road feel was cushy all the time. Now I have variable air suspension and can zip over winding mountain roads, or have a cushy ride on a bumpy interstate. The high tech goodies on the new 430 is what got my attention. I think we'll see the average or median age come down.
I would say Lexus is cutting corners with tires or suspension when 1) Lexus uses double wishbone suspension all-around and 2) when that double wishbone gives a excellent ride and very good handling without resorting to electronic controls. WHen it comes to tires, if you notice just about every car make "cuts" corners. Lexus ES300's come with Michelin MXV4s, so do some BMW's as well as Honda's--an example.
As for time delay lights, what's the point of comparing a Buick to a Lexus LS430? A couple of lame-duck features on the Buick aren't going to make up for all the disadvantages of a Buick.
I was 51 when I bought my first Lexus, a 92 LS in late 1991, it was "full spec" including air suspension. Prior to that I had been a very loyal ford fan for all of my adult life.
In 1991 there was NO other car in the class with the LS, NONE. Today life is much more confusing, difficult, the E430 is not quite up to par with the LS430 but it must be considered as a viable alternate choice. There is the Audi AWD, and the Jaguar AWD. While my choice still is, will be, the Lexus LS430.
I am reminded of a joke I heard just about the time Eastern airlines went under for good. It when something like this....
"Do you know that Eastern airlines is now one of the best rated airlines?"
"No, have they really improved that much?"
"No, but all of the other airlines have now degraded their service to Eastern's level!"
Opposite of the Lexus story, Lexus has raised the bar for everyone.
What I think you are seeing in age grouping is this, the older we get the less willing we are to take chances, move away from the proven path.
After ten years in the market the Lexus "path" is now well proven, so yes, you are undoubtedly seeing more "older" buyers in a Lexus.
Catherine Heins is looking for people to interview who have switched from American to Japanese cars in the past few years-- especially folks who wouldn't have given a Toyota or Honda the time of day in the 1970s.
She's a business reporter at the Yomiuri Shimbun, which is the biggest daily paper in Japan with a circulation of 14 million. They are writing a feature story about Japanese automakers' continuing success in expanding production in the U.S. and snatching market share from the Big Three even on their former home turf of light trucks.
If you fit this description and are willing to be interviewed, please call her directly at 212-582-5827 or e-mail her at catheins@yahoo.com. As always, you can contact me at jfallon@edmunds.com if you have any questions.
Well, I (like barb85) bought a black cherry ultra. Unlike barb85, I am 52. (barb, you do like older men, right?) While I agree the exterior styling doesn't "call out" to the younger crowd as much, the inside beauty, luxury and tech wonderland might well do so. It is arguably MUCH nicer than the S Class. As for the options/programming - a minor point, I think. I agree the Buick comparison is not a good one. You could find some little feature on nearly any car line that might be different or missing on a pricier car. Lexus does seem to listen more to its customer base than most, though. The fact that not every little, single item makes it into immediate production is to be expected. Remember, they "strive" for perfection, but in reality will never achieve it (as no one can). And the dealers don't have to program these features - they have the ability to change the way the features work. Such as when the doors lock or unlock. They have to choose a default to start with, but they allow change to suit the individual's taste. True enough, the light on/off issue could be addressed better, and probably will. But a minor point, as I said. If you read back on this board, you will see that the only complaints are extremely minor, like this, unlike the S Class and Bummer series. Speaking of the S Class - ljflx, I couldn't take it, I posted!!! Someone made a comment regarding the sense of spending another $100k for all the problems being reported vs. the LS430 at only $70k or less. Thinking mightily of you and my own advice to stay silent, I threw caution to the wind and (politely) voiced an opinion! I guess I should have taken this morning's xanax dose a little earlier.
Well, since I brought up this headlight issue, I should probably comment on some of your observations. First, I'm 40 and have been buying new cars for about 20 years. In fact, my LS430 is my first non-GM car (I got rid of my Park Ave. Ultra for the Lexus). Every new car has it's quirks and every manufacturer, it seems, has different ways of presenting the car's features. If there was one car that was uniformly and objectively better in every conceivable aspect and feature, it would certainly mop up the competition. My Ultra did, in a few aspects, allow me to customize a few features such as headlight delay and door lock/unlock features. But, once I made the initial setting, after spending a few hours going through the owners' manual and figuring out how to do it, I never adjusted those items again for the 3 years that I owned the car. Perhaps Lexus is effectively saying, "We don't want our customers to have to bother to figure out how to do many of these one-time only adjustments, so we'll take care of it for them in their first complimentary service visit." I like that. If you've read some of the posts in this topic, you'll see how the LS owners are constantly amazed at some of the small features that Lexus provides for the comfort/convenience of its customers that GM would never dream of. Yesterday I discovered the miniature visor above the rear-view mirror, in the event the sun is shining in the space just above the rearview mirror. Moreover, why can't Buick or Cadillac put the same level of soundproofing between the engine and the passenger compartment? The LS430 must have 8 times the space of passenger compartment storage than the Buick Park Avenue which is a larger car. Why can't the Park Avenue or even any Cadillac offer as much leg room or head room as the LS430? Why does the Park Avenue have a glove box that can hold little more than the owner's manual? In short, although the interior of the Lexus is less familiar to me than the interior of almost any GM car, I'm quickly discovering that the Lexus is much more user-friendly.
I joined you. Paulchiu seems like a genuinely nice guy who can afford anything he wants but still wants his money's worth. I hope our posts help him in the future. I'm not posting there again but like you I'll monitor the boards for the fun of it. No doubt in my mind that we have the best car in the class. Mercedes better hope that the belief in history/heritage doesn't die because if it does they have a lot of problems on their hands.
You and I have a lot in common (though I'd never have the guts to fly a plane) and you gotta love wbwynn. Have a great weekend.
My LS430 is my third lexus in 8 years; I'm 41 years old right now. I started with the 'sporty' GS300 in '93 then went to the LS400 a few years later because I really appreciate comfortable, luxurious, quiet rides. I really don't care how cars perform in tight turns at fast speeds. I will say some of my friends hassle me because they perceive the Lexus as an "old mans" car. But I'm the one laughing when they get the repair bills for their BMW's and MB's.
Regarding the headlights staying on if the door is ajar; same problem if you pop the trunk - like when you return to your garage with a trunk full of groceries; the headlights stay on until you close the trunk, which motivates me to empty the groceries fast!
it's true that most people expect to see older drivers behind an LS430. my friends and family say that i'm driving an old man's car. if they only knew! at my age (30), my only worry is that people (esp the police) might age profile me since i don't exactly fit the age group with the car. in any case, this "youngster" appreciates the older generation's tastes.
Some good points. My example of the Buick was with the Park Ave./Ultra in mind, and was merely an example of a "luxury" car that one would not necessarily think of in the same class as an LS430, that has what are to me some basic "luxury" functions. You make a good point, though, with the setting of the headlight and door lock modes and never touching them again. Not sure I agree that it takes an "hour" to program these things, though, on a GM car. Takes all of 5 minutes to do it for the first time. I guess, for me, getting to "personalize" my car through the "driver information center" was part of my initial "bonding" with my new car. In fact, the sale rep went through it with me before I drove off the lot for the first time. Did'nt have to "wait" for my first service visit to get it the way I wanted, and if I changed my mind later, I could easily just adjust it myself. anyway, you know what I am talking about, and I DO understand your points. There is give and take with every choice we make in life.
I am not suprised that many of you who are online here and posting on Edmunds are the "younger" buyers of the LS430. Interesting, Trentpa, that you used to own an Ultra (Buick). I got my dad to switch from a Park Avenue to an STS.
I am wondering if the LS430 has more leg room than the DeVille. (How the heck do they actually measure leg room anyway?) Seems kindof subjective. Regarding glove box space, no doubt the LS430 has increased its space in that area, but not all Lexus's can boast that...seems to me the guys over on the Lexus GS side have complained that their owner's manual won't fit in the glovebox.
I'm curious about trunk space, too. I know that that was a weak area of the prevous LS400 compared to its competitors. What is the capacity rating now? I saw the inside of an LS430 trunk at a car show. What is that box shaped hump protruding up from the floorboard toward the front of the trunk?
As for soundblocking out engine noise, I can't hear the engine itself on my '99 STS, but I can hear the pleasant exhaust rumble of the V8 when I open her up, and I like that! In fact, they quieted it down from the previous generation STS, and I miss it somewhat. Maybe you were referring to the exhaust note sound? I know that it is all but completely drowned out on the LS430. The car enthusiast writers in the auto mags. don't like that characteristic. They want to "hear" those horses running. Me too. The Lexus GS has a pretty good V8 exhaust note.
What do you guys who have the ultra luxury model really think of the "massaging" seats? To me, it is more of a vibrator than a kneeding massage action. Kind of like putting a quarter in the bed at a Motel 6, vs. one of those massaging chairs at the Brookstone store. Also, it does seem odd that they didn't focus on putting that type of technology in the front seats, where more people sit more often than in back.
Anyway, again I reiterate that these are merely observations as a car enthusiast.
The STS is FWD so front seat leg room may be limited vs the LS by the fact that the entire drivetrain is just forward and under the "firewall". The STS, for the very same reason, will have greater trunk space than the LS.
I seem to remember a figure of 20 cubic feet for the base model (and one I looked in had a ski passthrough as well) and 16 cubic feet if you have the beverage cooler.
This headline, which appeared today from a Chicago Tribune article, said that the market for luxury cars has declined eleven percent this year due to the shaky economy. Lincoln is down 20% and Cadillac is taking the biggest hit, 25%. "A notable exception" is the $54,000 Lexus LS430, which has seen sales more than double this year.
Is the sport no charge option one can order included as part of the ultra and custom option packages with the air suspension? I do know that both these packages have the switch to go to the "soft" or "sport" mode, but is this sport the same as the stand alone option? If so, I will get the $100 upgrade option for the 17" wheels.
In a brief test drive of an Ultra, I did not feel much difference between the soft and sport modes. In 7000 miles of driving a "Sport Suspension" option, there is a definite difference in terms of road feel and responsive handling. The sport suspension, among other things, substitutes nylon for rubber bushings in parts of the suspension. I know the air suspension is entirely different, but I suspect it has rubber cushioning throughout. Just FYI, you do get a fair amount of road noise on coarse asphalt with the sport suspension, probably due mostly to the "W"-rated 17" tires. I'll accept the trade-off. :<}
I am 44 (for a few weeks more, anyway), and the 430 is my 3d Lexus and my 2d LS. I don't doubt that the car has a relatively senior demographic base, but I don't see many kids (other than hip-hop stars) riding in the S class either.
I also am quite sure that the LS does not have the sort of trendy image that might draw younger drivers, but so what? I did not buy my car for others to admire; I bought it because it offered the best price-value relationship in the automotive world. I truely believe that. And no, the car is not the sleekest design on the road (I do think the S class is better looking), but I was eager to sacrifice that for (a) more headroom (b) more leg room and (c) less wind noise. You don't get the kind of drag coefficient the LS has by totally surrendering design control to the "artistes."
After about 3k miles, I can say without hesitation that the car has exceeded all of my lofty expectations. I just spent a week in a rented Crown Vic on a business trip, and it felt like a buckboard and sounded like a tractor by comparison. God, was I glad to get back to the LS.
Just bought a Lexas certified used (new to me) 98 LS400 for $33.5k+tax (a killer). I was shopping for a 2000 Cadillac DeVille or a 2001 Toy Avalon for my wife, but end up buying an old Lexas for a lot more money. Lexas dealer agreed to dark tint the windows too. I am glad that I found this board and have the following thoughts/questions.
1. About the image of drivers of LS are senior people. In Arizona, Cadillac is the truly senior people vehicle. When I went to a Cadillac dealer, I was the youngest customer. BMW, I am 44 already. My son and daughter said they would not drive the car if we bought a DeVille, becuase of the senior image. I don't see Lexas has that problem.
2. On top of the 3 yr/100k warranty, Lexas offered another 2 years extended warranty for $1400. Do you guys/girls think it's worthy? Can I buy warranty later? My Toyota 96 4Runner needs a new steering rack that costs me $1400 unexpectly. I have second thought on Toyota quality now.
3. My LS headlight is very bright and white. How can you tell if it's a HID or not?
All these comments about age, who cares, i'm just glad i have the bucks and knowledge to buy one of the best cars on the road. 7kmiles and not a glitch ok i'll have to have them look at my lexus link, but i'm going to see if they can pick it up and leave a loaner for a gulp "recall". I'm 47, should have bought lexus earlier in my less informed years, instead of the MB's i've bought. So what, does it really matter with me, i'm 100% satisfied with my own demographics, $$$$ + ls430 = yahoo satisfaction....i never did worry about others think of my decisions maybe that's why i'm at that stage in life that can purchase what i want not what impress others. The interior is the best, absolute best on the market, ls430 will be complimented my MB, BMW when they modify there interiors to get even close. case in point, MB and that befuddled command system...the only thing it commands is confusion.
I've got one year on you but have been with the LS400/430 since 1995. No problems whatsoever and dealer service that treats you like royalty when you bring the car in for maintenance. I always wanted very reliable luxurious cars and that will always be the most important factor in my decision making. The car has more than enough sport handling for me and the ride (2nd most important factor to me) is the best in its class by far. It's luxury is second to no car in its' class including the S-600. Perhaps if you triple its price you'll find something more luxurious. The car has become a very prestigious car and I get compliments all the time from gas station attendants to valet parking attendants etc. Last week a gas attendant on rt 46 in NJ asked me if it cost me $80,000. Today a truck driver at the same station told me it's one of the most beautiful cars he's ever seen. The enthusiasts trash its style whenever they can but it has become quite obvious that the reason is because they simply can't accept it. It's far too great a threat to the S-class which it will probably surpass in 5 years or so as Lexus adds more and more sedan options such as a v-12 and a stretch version and probably awd. Saw the movie "61" on HBO a few weeks back and the reluctance of MB & BMW enthusiasts to accept it reminds me of baseball's reluctance at the time to accept Roger Maris. Of course most of the enthusiasts couldn't afford an S,7 or LS430 anyway.
Which brings me to the Demo profiles. No matter what car you are dealing with in the $60k+ range you are going to attract mostly 45+ buyers and more often than not 55+. In many cases those who are in the younger profile have better things to do with their money such as trading up in homes or saving to put their kids through college. And like someone else posted I don't see very many young people driving the 7 or the S (or the Q-45 for that matter) anyway.
Comments
Glad you like the car. It just gets better and better and that large trunk can handle Wegmans.
The brochure description of the options in the Custom and Ultra is accurate (although I'm not sure if you must also get special perforated leather for the cooled seats at an additional cost on the Custom or if it's included). The main difference is the back seat stuff. Going from memory, the Ultra may also add air variable suspension and include Lexus link. I just dug up the book -see pg 61 of the LS brochure for all the info on Custom and Ultra packages. I got a base car with Nav/ML. Customs are very, very rare. I believe an earlier post said only 30-odd were coming into the northeast this year.
I got the standard 16" wheels and year round tires. This combination with the base suspension is very comfortable, yet doesn't isolate you from the road. A salesperson or someone else with a little more knowledge about tires could tell you how the summer tires would affect the ride.
The two features I couldn't get on the base model that I really wanted were the laser cruise control and park assist. The rest of the Custom & Ultra features were not as important to me. You need to look at the different trim levels and decide what makes sense for you. If you have your heart set on a Custom in a particular color you may very well have to wait until 2002. One feature of the Ultra I didn't like was that the separate a/c for the rear compartment took up some of the trunk space.
Hope this helped - feel free to ask any other questions. If you haven't done so yet I'd be sure to go to a dealer and check the cars out. Ray Catena (Rt 35, Ocean Township) has a large selection in their showroom and in their separate storage area next to the service center, which is across the road. As of last week they had a black cherry, I saw it when I got my 1000 mi service.
I can state the trunk can handle both Wegman's and Costco simultaneously, with a dose of Target thrown in!
I called several dealers and several car upholsterers and they all tell me those airbag visor labels CANNOT be removed without damage. (If anyone knows differently please let us know!)
Your power should be retained for a minute or so (or until you open a door) once you've turned off the ignition. Maybe you have to leave the key in; I don't recall, but I know I have retained power after shutting off the engine.
There is not much information regarding Lexus link advanced features and I don't think much of it. I like the basic service because if you're in an accident and your airbags deploy they will call an ambulance/police for you if you don't respond to their call to you. That safety feature alone is worth the $200.00 or so annual fee.
Enjoy your car!
Off topic, but I saw an article in USA Today wherein they dissected several series finales. They basically agreed with us that our fav. show's finale was weak, but implied it was a lead-in for next year's SERIES finale.
Anyone using a Valentine ONe??? Suggestions on installation and wiring. This being my 2nd request, if no one can help, I'll be forced to go off in a Snit. And we all know, no decent, self respecting Lexus owner would be seen in a Snit.
They're nearly as trouble prone as an S430.
I put the sensor at the top on the windshield just to the right of the rain sensor. You will have to modify the clip to fit between the glass and the headliner. Route the wire (hidden under the headliner) down the A pillar (between glass and molding) and under the glove compartment and attach a modular wire coupler. to this attach a short piece of modular wire to the remote which is inserted in the outlet in center console. I got some wire same color as the ecru. and of the total wiring only 3" is visable which is the piece that goes from under the console molding to the remote.
Hope this helps. Of couse you can always have it hard wired but I didn't have the specs for that. Incidently the detector is practically invisible from the outside.
I was getting 18+ for the first month; then it has recently dropped...is this high-priced gas no good?
By the way when I brought my car in for service I asked them for touch-up paint for both the silver and the pine. I don't have a need for it as yet and hope I never will but its good to have around just in case. They only had the silver on hand but today in the mail I received the pine - a full two business days later. Lexus service is the best. Incidentally their touch-up paint seems like a perfect match should the need arise.
Lastly - the LS430 is catching on bigtime. In doing those deals I've maintained relationships with many very wealthy people and they are buying both the LS and the SC430 these days. Let's hope the pricepoint holds. The reliability of the car is amazing and that is what is winning the people over plus it has gained a lot in status.
Sopranos - When the old guy didn't have a heart attack I next expected the Russians to break in and start shooting. Bad ending but still a great show and the best continuous acting by so many varied characters I've ever seen. You'd think they filmed all the episodes in one shoot.
Did you make that trip to 17?
Heading down on 17 around Sullivan's Island (just North of Charleston)on the 9th. Hope you are well...give 'em hell on the other boards!!
I still check over there just to see you shake them up...
The Q45 has historically been discounted by large amounts just to keep inventory moving because of very low demand for the product.
The BMW 7-series probably didn't have discounts for some of the 1995 model year, but I remember even in late 1995, the BMW 740 had lease incentives to move product. Of course, the discount wasn't nowhere near as large as what Infiniti gives out on Q45's.
Where the difference lies is that BMW dealers have discounted the 7-series every year to keep demand with supply. Whereas, Infiniti has to give huge discounts just to move the Q45 off of lots.
ljflx, sadly, I do need the touch-up paint, but at least in an inconspicuous area. During my trip to Pittsburgh via the "lovely" Pa. Tpke, I got a rock on the front just below the grill. It chipped the paint completely in approx a 1/4" little circle. Must have been a direct hit! God was I angry. Hope I can come up with the black cherry paint since it's a little more rare.
I still read the other 3 boards as well, just to watch the incongruity of it all. While they lavish themselves with praise, they complain of things (newest one I recall) like their S Class key has stopped working and the poor guy doesn't know if the car is locked or unlocked. Now, those are problems to complain about. While we (lucky and informed) Lexus buyers have to settle for things like computer mileage readouts and coins rattling in the coin box due to the damned quiet ride! BTW, my mileage readout situation (for wbwynn) is like that of ljflx. And when I refuel, I check the "tank average" against the gallons bought/miles driven - and it is always right on. I mean to the tenth of a mile. The other readouts are based, I think, on current driving condition (speed vs. throttle input vs. uphill, coasting, etc).
trentpa - tested my retained power this morning and I have it to play the radio or maneuver the windows etc. regardless of whether I shut the car completely off or just shut it off one notch below the aux. power. When your door was open you should have been getting a chime sound inside to remind you that you had somehing wrong. I know that every now and then I fail to release my emergency brake and that chime sounds the moment I put the car in gear. My lights shutoff in about 30 seconds or so and I know Lexus can re-program this to anything you want (that was the case with the 98 car at least) but I would think the interior lights, not the headlights, would remain on if you failed to close the door. I'll see if it happens to me when I get home tonight.
I want to go check it out.
morg7 - there are two high-end boards in the comparison auto section and flint350 and I are also referring to the S-class board. Those who post on the S-class board seem to have more problems in 10 or so recent posts than in all 1200+ on this board. And if you go back in time you'll find some real amusing problems.
I'm referring to things such as the programming of door locks and the automatic headlights. I am quite surprised that from what you all are saying, you have to have the dealer program in these options for you. And, in the case of the door locks, not all dealers seem to know how to do it! I mean, to need the dealer to program in the time delay of your headlights shutting off seems rather rediculous on a car of this caliber. That's a standard feature you can get on a Buick by adjusting the time delay yourself with a dashboard control. A one second job.
Why would Toyota Motor Corp. leave simple stuff like that off? I had read where they did extensive research and obtained exhaustive feedback from existing LS400 owners when designing the "new" LS430. Can't believe these things never came up during that research if they are coming up now with such a small representation of LS owners on this board.
Anyway, I was reading on one of these Lexus boards how Toyota cuts corners to save money in areas such as the factory tires and suspension design. Perhaps the door lock and headlight programming issues fall into that category as well. Anyway, just a point of discussion. I am sure you are right about the Mercedes having much more serious issues. I know several present and former Mercedes owners who have had all kinds of problems.
I am curious if, with the new design of the LS with the '01 LS430, the average age of LS430 owners has risen from what it was with the previous model. In my observations, of ALL the LS430's I have seen on the road, they were being driven by a senior citizen. Literally, not 50 years old (I'm 38, so that ain't old to me anymore :>)), but senior citizens.
I recently went to the Motor Trend/Cadillac test drive where, among the Cads and Mercs and BMWs, there was an LS430. The LS430 seemed to appeal the most to the older people in the crowd. I mean, I really observed that. The oldest guy in the crowd was crooning over it.
Anyway, this is just a demographic observation. What do you guys think? I don't think it has anything to do with the price increase, since I see many younger folks driving even more expensive 740iL's and S500's, etc. I think even the Cadillac DeVille, especially the DTS model, appeals more to a younger set (at least in exterior design) than the LS430. I know it would to me.
I was at my dealer today and a guy in a new LS430 was in front of me checking in with his service advisor. He was probably around 60 years old I'd guess. Anyway I asked him how he liked his LS430 and he immediately beamed "this is the best investment I've ever made!" That's quite a statement about such a depreciating asset! :-)
(I think he was in for a problem with the Lexus Link by the way)
On a separate note - I sat in an SC430 today, and while the interior is nice and immediately familiar to any Lexus owner, I still can't fathom why they bothered putting in the COMPLETELY USELESS rear seats... yes I've heard the 'insurance' reason, but that makes no sense on a $60K car. Also, the trunk space is a joke - you could barely fit two grocery bags back there I'd guess!
Great looking car though!
I am aware the dealer will complete this task for free.
Mediabarron@qwest.net
I would say Lexus is cutting corners with tires or suspension when 1) Lexus uses double wishbone suspension all-around and 2) when that double wishbone gives a excellent ride and very good handling without resorting to electronic controls. WHen it comes to tires, if you notice just about every car make "cuts" corners. Lexus ES300's come with Michelin MXV4s, so do some BMW's as well as Honda's--an example.
As for time delay lights, what's the point of comparing a Buick to a Lexus LS430? A couple of lame-duck features on the Buick aren't going to make up for all the disadvantages of a Buick.
In 1991 there was NO other car in the class with the LS, NONE. Today life is much more confusing, difficult, the E430 is not quite up to par with the LS430 but it must be considered as a viable alternate choice. There is the Audi AWD, and the Jaguar AWD. While my choice still is, will be, the Lexus LS430.
I am reminded of a joke I heard just about the time Eastern airlines went under for good. It when something like this....
"Do you know that Eastern airlines is now one of the best rated airlines?"
"No, have they really improved that much?"
"No, but all of the other airlines have now degraded their service to Eastern's level!"
Opposite of the Lexus story, Lexus has raised the bar for everyone.
What I think you are seeing in age grouping is this, the older we get the less willing we are to take chances, move away from the proven path.
After ten years in the market the Lexus "path" is now well proven, so yes, you are undoubtedly seeing more "older" buyers in a Lexus.
Catherine Heins is looking for people to interview who have switched from American to Japanese cars in the past few years-- especially folks who wouldn't have given a Toyota or Honda the time of day in the 1970s.
She's a business reporter at the Yomiuri Shimbun, which is the biggest daily paper in Japan with a circulation of 14 million. They are writing a feature story about Japanese automakers' continuing success in expanding production in the U.S. and snatching market share from the Big Three even on their former home turf of light trucks.
If you fit this description and are willing to be interviewed, please call her directly at 212-582-5827 or e-mail her at catheins@yahoo.com. As always, you can contact me at jfallon@edmunds.com if you have any questions.
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
PR Director
Edmunds.com
As for the options/programming - a minor point, I think. I agree the Buick comparison is not a good one. You could find some little feature on nearly any car line that might be different or missing on a pricier car. Lexus does seem to listen more to its customer base than most, though. The fact that not every little, single item makes it into immediate production is to be expected. Remember, they "strive" for perfection, but in reality will never achieve it (as no one can). And the dealers don't have to program these features - they have the ability to change the way the features work. Such as when the doors lock or unlock. They have to choose a default to start with, but they allow change to suit the individual's taste. True enough, the light on/off issue could be addressed better, and probably will. But a minor point, as I said. If you read back on this board, you will see that the only complaints are extremely minor, like this, unlike the S Class and Bummer series.
Speaking of the S Class - ljflx, I couldn't take it, I posted!!! Someone made a comment regarding the sense of spending another $100k for all the problems being reported vs. the LS430 at only $70k or less. Thinking mightily of you and my own advice to stay silent, I threw caution to the wind and (politely) voiced an opinion! I guess I should have taken this morning's xanax dose a little earlier.
You and I have a lot in common (though I'd never have the guts to fly a plane) and you gotta love wbwynn. Have a great weekend.
Regarding the headlights staying on if the door is ajar; same problem if you pop the trunk - like when you return to your garage with a trunk full of groceries; the headlights stay on until you close the trunk, which motivates me to empty the groceries fast!
I am not suprised that many of you who are online here and posting on Edmunds are the "younger" buyers of the LS430. Interesting, Trentpa, that you used to own an Ultra (Buick). I got my dad to switch from a Park Avenue to an STS.
I am wondering if the LS430 has more leg room than the DeVille. (How the heck do they actually measure leg room anyway?) Seems kindof subjective. Regarding glove box space, no doubt the LS430 has increased its space in that area, but not all Lexus's can boast that...seems to me the guys over on the Lexus GS side have complained that their owner's manual won't fit in the glovebox.
I'm curious about trunk space, too. I know that that was a weak area of the prevous LS400 compared to its competitors. What is the capacity rating now? I saw the inside of an LS430 trunk at a car show. What is that box shaped hump protruding up from the floorboard toward the front of the trunk?
As for soundblocking out engine noise, I can't hear the engine itself on my '99 STS, but I can hear the pleasant exhaust rumble of the V8 when I open her up, and I like that! In fact, they quieted it down from the previous generation STS, and I miss it somewhat. Maybe you were referring to the exhaust note sound? I know that it is all but completely drowned out on the LS430. The car enthusiast writers in the auto mags. don't like that characteristic. They want to "hear" those horses running. Me too. The Lexus GS has a pretty good V8 exhaust note.
What do you guys who have the ultra luxury model really think of the "massaging" seats? To me, it is more of a vibrator than a kneeding massage action. Kind of like putting a quarter in the bed at a Motel 6, vs. one of those massaging chairs at the Brookstone store. Also, it does seem odd that they didn't focus on putting that type of technology in the front seats, where more people sit more often than in back.
Anyway, again I reiterate that these are merely observations as a car enthusiast.
Thanks, in advance for helping me out here!
I also am quite sure that the LS does not have the sort of trendy image that might draw younger drivers, but so what? I did not buy my car for others to admire; I bought it because it offered the best price-value relationship in the automotive world. I truely believe that. And no, the car is not the sleekest design on the road (I do think the S class is better looking), but I was eager to sacrifice that for (a) more headroom (b) more leg room and (c) less wind noise. You don't get the kind of drag coefficient the LS has by totally surrendering design control to the "artistes."
After about 3k miles, I can say without hesitation that the car has exceeded all of my lofty expectations. I just spent a week in a rented Crown Vic on a business trip, and it felt like a buckboard and sounded like a tractor by comparison. God, was I glad to get back to the LS.
1. About the image of drivers of LS are senior people. In Arizona, Cadillac is the truly senior people vehicle. When I went to a Cadillac dealer, I was the youngest customer. BMW, I am 44 already. My son and daughter said they would not drive the car if we bought a DeVille, becuase of the senior image. I don't see Lexas has that problem.
2. On top of the 3 yr/100k warranty, Lexas offered another 2 years extended warranty for $1400. Do you guys/girls think it's worthy? Can I buy warranty later? My Toyota 96 4Runner needs a new steering rack that costs me $1400 unexpectly. I have second thought on Toyota quality now.
3. My LS headlight is very bright and white. How can you tell if it's a HID or not?
Again, it's good to be here. Thanks.
Which brings me to the Demo profiles. No matter what car you are dealing with in the $60k+ range you are going to attract mostly 45+ buyers and more often than not 55+. In many cases those who are in the younger profile have better things to do with their money such as trading up in homes or saving to put their kids through college. And like someone else posted I don't see very many young people driving the 7 or the S (or the Q-45 for that matter) anyway.