Jarogi - I had a flutter sound on my 92 Acura Legend moonroof that was driving me crazy. When I first complained about it Acura missed it but then I brought it back and they located the problem and it was something very minor. Never had a problem with it or that Acura again. The dealer threw in my first service appointment for free as an apology. Hopefully you will have the same result.
stevestein - The cruise definitely doesn't re-engage after you go through e-z pass. I tried it this morning. It did resume from 40mph though on an ordinary highway slowdown. Personally I prefer having to re-engage it after a stop or a slowdown to a very slow speed as it is a better safety policy since those type of slowdowns are a real break in your driving pattern. Flicking the cruise arm to set a new cruise speed isn't exactly a herculean task.
Do you have any idea what the dealer did to correct the rattle in your LS430 moonroof. My dealer needs to order new tracks and remove the whole inside of the roof to fix it. I really dread that day. It will be about 10 days out. Thanks for the info.
I agree it's not a herculean task - perhaps having to clean up after the 290 horses would be. Just another difference (like having to turn the cruise switch on every time) from every other cruise control I've had.
Somehow I think no matter what the farm cost it didn't put a dent in Bruce's lifestyle.
jarogi - 10 days seems like a long time - can you get another Lexus dealer to verify that much work and time is really needed. If it's out an extended period insist they give you an LS430 demo to drive so that you can see the real comparable "goods" and make sure that your car is letter perfect when you get it back. If you leased they should extend 10 days or give you a 30% discount on a one month payment. Why should you get shortchanged? Good luck.
Bitkahuna - I'm not impressed by that 7 at all. I preferred the fake at Arcoates site and actually thought the best design at that site was the one BMW rejected. I would have been interested in that one. I don't think it will put any hurt in Lexus or Mercedes. The design they chose, assuming it's correct, looks like it's competing with the Q, the GS430 and BMW's own 5-series. The latter two, particularly the GS are great looking cars because the shorter wheelbase is more appropriate for that design - IMO. I think it looks too much like the Q, its' rear and especially its' rear lights are not attractive and the interior doesn't have the luxury panache of the LS - actually far from it. I also think the I-drive will be a disaster. Do you like the Q? I thought I would like it more than I do but it is a darn good value and Infiniti reliability is way up there too.
Stevestein - $8-10mln is what I read in the local papers. That's about 1-2 years interest for Bruce. Maybe. He's supposed to be a great guy.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. They are taking the car in for repair in 10 days. The work itself should take less than a day. I am not very comfortable about them taking the darn thing apart. Things never seem to go back together the same way. I have promised myself that if this fails I will not hesitate to dump the car for something else. This has been a big disappointment.
I don't see how you can say the new 7 series looks like it's competing with the Q, GS430 or 5-series... sounds like you think it's not a very large vehicle, yet it apparently is larger than the current 7 series, so it certainly won't be small. From what I've seen, I like the new looks. I don't think iDrive will be any good either, by the way. Given the complexity of new cars, voice actuation is the only way to go in the end, and that feature will get better over time.
As for the Q, I don't like the looks. The front headlights are neat, but by avoiding the need for foglights, the front spoiler makes the overall front end look cheap to me. And the quality will probably be good. But I haven't seen ONE on the road yet, but I continue to see more and more LS430s and SC430s lately too.
Price is relevant, but I think Infiniti is making the SAME MISTAKE AGAIN, with their positioning of the car as a luxury hot rod. That's just dumb, unless they really have the goods to beat a 7 series and apparently they don't.
I meant from a design standpoint. They are moving away from the stately looks of the LS and more sporty but still stately look of the S and the design seems more in line, thus in competition with the lower priced cars. Maybe they want a different buyer but that would be a dangerous strategy in this economy. The car they rejected was a hell of a beautiful design and would have gotten the uppity crowd - again just my opinion. It certainly had graceful stately looks yet retained a sport orientation. Guess we all have our tastes and thats what makes discussions fun if they are kept honest and in correct tones without attacking someone's preferred choice.
I love that sc430 but when the Times reviewed it they said there was as much as a 2 year wait! Did you hear anything about that? What do you think of it? I drove it and it is phenomenal. I do see more and more of them on the road and most certainly many many LS430's now. I liked it in January when I had a rare to be seen one. These days I have one in my rear-view mirror everyday at some point.
ljflx - The current 7 series is a sporty car. The new one will not doubt still be a very capable driving car, probably more so with so much active suspension work. I don't think this will be a 'dangerous strategy' because I think the car will appeal to current owners who wouldn't be seen dead in the new Q. I work with a bunch of execs who all drive 7 series. No way they're buying a Q or an LS for that matter.
As for the SC - yes, I've heard about huge long waits... and people buying them and selling them the next day for 10K-20K more. I think Toyota/Lexus has a great but real problem on their hands, how to allocate the 4.3L engines between the LS, SC and GS! They must easily make the most money on the SC so I suspect they'll keep upping the production there as long as the demand is so high.
Thanks! All - click on the photos for bigger versions, you can see much more detail.
The one thing I find really strange is the shape of the trunk lid, especially at the sides. I'm sure this is to make it easy to get things in and out and to maximize room, but it still looks unusual.
And while I'm now not quite as convinced on the overall design as I was, I think it's going to grow on me and be a winner in the market.
That is if all that technology works! That will be one complicated car!
I don't like that 7 at all. Maybe it'll look better in person than pix but it still has far too much resemblance to the Q and even to a Passat. It just doesn't look like a superlux car anymore. I'm not a big fan of the current design because it's outdated but it's clearly a class member. I think that new 7 will have to grow on people.
Lexus is in an incredible position if they choose to get agressive. The demand for their V-8's, as you note bitkahuna, are high and they have an allocation problem. If people are willing to pay 10-20k over list or wait 2 years for the SC430, and on top of that the LS430 ultra is so hard to come by than the public is willing to pay premium prices for their cars.Given their costs to produce are much lower than MB/BMW and the Yen has held up so well (thank God I didn't short it) they have many alternate strategies. They can lenghten the car, add awd, put a v-12 in it (an LS600) and probably still sell it as the ultimate ultra LS at a price below an S-500. They can also put in a 340+ hp engine with an ultra package or the custom lux package combined with a awd option (an LS500) and keep it comparable to S-430 prices or below and they can leave the existing LS430 as is with only the ml/nav package or maybe the custom lux and awd as options. Thus a layering of the LS product line which I think they need. They can also do this with the SC and probably mix/match some of these options in the GS. The financial clout they have and breathing space they have in pricing relative to the Germans would scare the hell out of me if I was their competitor. They are in the drivers seat - let's see how agressive they drive the car.
Bitkahuna - great to talk to you. BTW - on the Jersey turnpike this morning there was a GS400 in a gorgeous blue color (never saw one before in that color before) that shot right by me (I was at 75mph at the time). Man was that car screaming - made me think of you.
Hard for me to see the resemblance between the new 7 and the Q. I can see the Passat a little bit though.
Blue GS's are rare, and dealers WILL NOT stock them (they say they make the lot look bad), but I agree it looks good. Mine's silver, because I like the look and I'm lazy about cleaning cars.
If he was flying on the Jersey Turnpike I hope he's got a radar detector!
I would look into other high quality service providers beyond just Lexus dealers to compare costs of the services. I have had all of the regular maintenance services for all three Lexuses I have owned over the years performed at a nearby Firestone (or similar) dealer for about 1/2 the cost of the Lexus dealer. For example, why should anyone pay $50.00 to get an oil change at Lexus when many other very qualifed providers can do it for 1/2 the price in 1/4 the time?
I priced the 30,000 mile check for my wifes' LS400 a few months ago: Oil change, tire rotation, cooling system flush and brake fluid replacement, at Lexus, $300.00. At Firestone, about $120.00 (I don't remember the exact price)How can anyone economically justify routine maintenance at a Lexus dealer?
We had a 91 ls400, 94 ls400, 98 GS400 and now 01 RX300. Except the 91 LS, we had never have the routine maintenance done in a lexus dealer. If you look at the maintenance manual there are a lot of inspection. Don't know how much those inspection are really worth. But for the other part (oil change, transmission change, air filter, oil filter etc.), I can get those done normally under $100. But the dealership would charge $300 to $400 for the same service. I am sure that I can buy a lot of latte/cookie (freebie from Lexus when you wait) with the difference.
During warranty period, should you goto Lexas for routine maintenance in order for Lexas to honor the warranty? When I bought my 98 certified LS400, dealer said each certified Lexas will have complete maintenance record in Lexas.
Well I disagree with your viewpoint. I feel the Lexus dealer has a lot more to lose by bad service than an independent place, so I get my car serviced there. For oil changes my wife takes her RX300 to a quick oil change place, but for the 60K service for example, we had the Lexus dealer do it. For my GS400 - I haven't had a major service yet. Paying a couple hundred dollars extra every coiple of years for good service on a vehicle that cost $40K+ doesn't seem like a bad thing. Yes, you can buy lots of lattes etc. with the savings, but taking it to an extreme, I've met people who believe they're saving money by putting crappy gas in their car or by stretching oil changes farther apart than recommended by Lexus. This is lunacy.
I like the peace of mind of letting my dealer do the service, who I trust, and who I can give grief effectively to if anything doesn't go right, because they know if I give a bad write-up or phonecall to Lexus, it hurts them.
I am thinking of taking it to a Lexus Master Tech who quit and opened his own Lexus/Toyota repair shop real close to my house. No latte, no loaner car, no free drink, but $450.00 less than Lexus for the service !!!!!!!! If I trusted him at Lexus, I don't know why I couldn't with him owning his own shop.
Just got back from picking up my LS430. Black with Ecru interior/custom package. Currently driving 97 BMW 540. After about 30 seconds in the Lexus, did not miss the 540 one bit! What a fantastic car! Hoffman Lexus in East Hartford, CT is great - have purchased there previously.
Had the 540 for 4 years. Overall a great car. Had problems with BMW service on numerous occasions. Also, minor problems that BMW could not fix (door seals that rattled that drove me crazy - for example. They "fixed" them 3 I, still not "fixed").
I had the original LS400 and a SC400 in the past. ALWAYS very happy with the cars and the service (at 3 dealerships!).
I want luxury now, not performance. Although the AS has the same 0 - 60 as the 540!
1329 I have noticed that the bottom of the seat now moves about 3/4" when I get in and out, under braking and other times on its own. Just another problem to contend with along with brake grabbing, engine/trans vibration between 1150 -2000 rpm, steering wheel groan, and when the car crosses the tar strips in the road the 17" tires make the chassis ring like an echo or bell!
On July 9, Lexus is going tor replace my driver's side seat cushion assembly. They are also going to replace my moon roof assembly. As for brakes, I know what you mean. There are some issues with this car but I test drove a BMW 740IL last night because I was thinking of dumping the LS, but the BMW is no Lexus when it comes to zip and comfort. I just hope that everything goes back together the right way and that there is no collateral damage sustained. This fall I will look into the 2002 to see if they have improved.
live in the bay area and I am on the waiting list for a SC430 for the last 3 months or so in 2 different dealerships. Since I will be in LA area in a couple weeks, I am thinking about trying my luck with the greater LA dealerships. Can any recommend a Lexus dealership that you had good sales experience? Thanks.
My LS430 with basic cruise control speeds up excessively on even modest downhill inclines. My Infiniti It30 does a much better job of maintaining speed. So did my previous Acura RL. The It30 seems to downshift and use engine braking. The LS430 instead seems only to go to minimum throttle, which when transmission is set to 4-D, is not enough to prevent downhill acceleration.
Is this normal for this car, or do I need to visit the service department?
Last week at PC Exo in the Jacob Javits Convention Center in NY. one vendor, who sold a voice recognition/cell phone/PDA integration mount for cars, had a black LS430 ultra on the exhibit hall floor to show off their product. I was impressed that the NAV display showed that the car was not on the adjacent street, but inside the building. The display indicated "Jacob Javits Convention Center", not 11th Ave. There is of course no GPS reception inside. The salesman was dismayed that nobody looked at his product because the car's display was stealing his show and muttered something about putting masking tape on the screen. So I turned it off for him. Yes, the product worked well even with all windows open and the din of the show intruding. Audio is put out via the car speakers feeding the M. Levinson either via FM radio or via the tape player. At $350 list I am considering it.
While thumbing through the July 01 issue of Motor Trend I noticed that the feature article was about a Lexus, Mercedes, Jaguar, Audi, Cadillac, and Infinity shoot-out. Very interesting reading. The editors voted overwhelmingly for the MB, in spite of most of the supporting findings showing Lexus to be better. What was totally unexpected was that in the 0-60 category they clocked the LS430 at 6.34 sec. and the 50HP advantaged Q45 at 6.51 sec. (The 4.0L Jag was nearly a full second faster than that.)
After a month and 1800 miles on my Custom I think it is an all around very good car. So far the nit I have trouble adjusting to is that the FM sensitivity is significantly worse than on my Pioneer equipped LS400. I can no longer listen to the only radio station I like when driving to work, WQXR in New York. My other nits apply to the dealer installed options: Clear plastic stone protection for the front of the car (poor workmanship in applying and positioning the film). Window tint (bubbles). Alarm upgrade (never worked at all).
Ever since they put the antenna in the windshield the reception for stations has decreased as you get away from the broadcast source. My 95 car actually picked up signal farthest from the point of broadcast than the 98 or 01. When the antenna was mounted to the front of the car I noticed the reception was not only maintained further from the point but also was clearer. My Landcruiser maintains signal further than my LS430 because its' antenna is not in the windshield. This is probably the problem more so than the radio. They also thickened the glass this year which doesn't help.
Cruise - my cruise maintains same speed whether I am going up or down a hill.
Motor Trend - predjudiced opinion. Several of us commented about it a few weeks back. The S-430 is noticably slower than the LS430 in 0-60 and in torque. How can any performance magazine rate that better??
E-430 4matic - Had a chance to drive the E-430 this week for 3 days as I was away on business.(How I ended up with this car on business is too long a story to get into.) Anyone who pays 60k for this car is simply buying a brand name. Couldn't wait to get back into my LS430. What an incredible difference for cars that are close in price. The E-430 is cheap and plastic like inside for a car at that price point. The leather is not high grade at all. It's not that it is a bad interior - just relative to the price. Noiser, more harsh ride and cramped interior - this is a smaller car than I realized. Either the Lexus should be $10k higher in price or the E $10k lower in price. When I got back in the LS430 I felt like I was stepping up several notches in class. The E had good handling and I do like the design - but I prefer the GS430 to this car. Nicer ride, better handling and very quiet. It's remarkable that MB can charge a price that high for a car so inferior to the LS430.
I test drove both within the last month and generally agree with the above posted comments. The MB is has vault-like tightness, but the interior is very cramped and the grade of the pastics and leather used, seems cheap. The beige MB interior, in fact, had no less than four different beige tones, which did not really go together or compliment each other. Getting in the LS 430 semed to be moving up a notch in class. The LS was no less tight or nimble, just seemed to offer more all around for the money. The ergonomics in the MB have been notoriously disappointing. Examples of the latter include the stalk for engaging the cruise control, which can be tripped relatively easy using the turn signal, and the inconvenient placement of the electric steering wheel adjustment. The radio and dash controls in appearance are dated (and indeed are scheduled to be updated with the 2003 model due out next spring). All four power window controls on the console are a cheaper way of doing this, and I bet will be relocated to the doors with the next generation E-class, as they were in the C-class.
They've got to give that car a more luxurious feel than it has today for that kind of money. The GS has a much richer feel than the E. I must tell you I was very surprised at how tinny the car felt - again relative to its' price. It's one thing to test drive it and another thing to live in it. Perhaps if you've never been in a Lexus LS and are still stepping up in class you'll buy it - but you'll never know the wonderful amenities you're missing out in on the LS. By the way it had the command system - it was actually a fully loaded E-4matic that listed for 62k which is more than the LS430 with ml/nav. I wouldn't buy it for 10k less. Give me a loaded Q and the 5k+ it saves you any day of the week.
It's amazing isn't it? Anyone who knows me knows I'm tenacious (but in a gentle way - otherwise you can never get a deal done) yet arcoates thinks I (you too - I guess) are defensive. What a joke. I hope for his sake the new 7 looks better in person than in the pix. That back end looks like its pregnant and the overall shape still looks like a Q (and certainly a Passat) to me. If BMW has a bust on its hands GM will be buying it sooner than I expect.
By the way the past week was an interesting car week for me. I had to drive my boss about 100 miles in my pine car before I went away. He thought the car was spectacular - couldn't believe the interior, the ride quality and the absence of noise. I told him the interior was a lot nicer looking with the nav and that the ultra or custom takes it up even further. He then demanded to drive the car. His German auto lease ends in September and he will not be re-newing. Nuff said except that the E was such a dis-appointment.
Leaving tommorrow afternoon for rest of the week. Hope everyone has a great 4th.
Yeah, I agree. I think arcoates problem is a normal one shared by most of us, just a little more intense with him - personal bias. It doesn't bother me that he and merc1, etc. are fervent Lexus bashers - that is their right and their opinion. It only annoys me when facts are misrepresented in defense of their opinion. We can all agree to disagree on most everything about these cars, but it shouldn't be put up as a fact or actually quoted inaccurately. When we point this out, we are criticized as defensive. I for one, and you also as I recall, have often pointed out points of agreement with them and even pointed out shortcomings in our own vehicles. It's what these forums are about. bitkahuna can describe us as having too much sentiment in here pro-Lexus, but this particular forum is specifically LExus! Since most of us haven't as yet experienced the volume of problems listed in the Benz forum, I don't see his point. No one here is saying Lexus is perfect. They don't say it themselves (tho, they claim to pursue it, and seem closer to it IMO than Benz). As for the new 7, as I said to arcoates, I think it shows some promise, but I personally have doubts about the styling from the pics I've seen. The rear end looks like a marriage btwn a Porche and Intrepid. Lastly, I too, have had the pleasure of driving (past) co-workers and others around in my Ultra and they were all highly impressed. At least one of them was a Benz owner and admitted the obvious differences in build quality and interior design. I have been in his Benz and tested the new S, and found it less to MY liking. Doesn't make me a Benz hater or Lexus zealot - just says that I have a preference and one that, at least in this forum, is shared by others of like mind. Have a great 4th - I'm off to frustrate myself on the golf course and re-learn the meaning of "humbled".
Had my tires rotated at the 5000 mile service. I recently noted that my spre was not included in the rotation. Page 358 in the 430 owners manual specifically shows that the spare must be included in the rotation.
Those of you due for service may want to make sure that this procedure is followed since my dealer had never done this and was unaware of the directive. I have a feeling that others may not know about it.
Stated perfectly. BTW - I'm jumping back into the market now. Hope I'm right. I thought the nasdaq bottom would be 1800 and got back in at about 50% of my investment level when it was in the 1750 range so I'm happy so far. Oh yeah - I'm taking the LX470 in August. Got a great deal. Have a great 4th.
Same here. It also doesn't hurt to specify that they strictly follow the pattern in the owners manual. Otherwise, they might undo next time what they did this time. I at least verified that my spare ended up on the left front. If you don't say anything, they usually just swap front to back.
Talked to Cory Williams but got a much better deal at South Bay Lexus. Buzz Wesson is a real straight shooter and will treat you right. Don't know if you will have any luck with a SC430 there is a long list. Picked up my LS430 on Sunday.
For laughs, I continue to read the Benz S Class board and find the mounting complaints on failures and mechanicals truly remarkable. It has brought me to the conclusion that the many S Class devotees are correct in their continued belief that these cars are one of the safest in a collision - the reason is that the tow truck absorbs most of the impact and damage.
My earlier post asking about ways the LS430 could be improved got no response... hey flint and ljflx, you consider your LS430's to be perfect in every way and there is NOTHING you would change and nothing you'd like to see added or an option?
The LS430 is clearly a fabulous car, but every car can be improved in one way or another.
Is Internet access of interest? S-Class owners can check the news or stock quotes or sports scores on their cars (when it works of course!).
Is a rear view camera like the new Q has interesting?
Would a long wheelbase version of the LS430 be of interest?
How about more power or a V12?
How about massaging front seats? Why don't they offer those? I'm sure they wouldn't offer a massaging driver's seat that would operate while driving though!
How about different colors? A brushed aluminum type interior option?
Here's one I'd like to see... tie the nav system in with traffic data and have the car advise ways around it before you're even aware of it.
I, personally, didn't respond for several reasons, one shall remain my private opinion of the question/context - the other is that much of our views on improving the LS430 and the various problems it might currently experience have, in fact, been well documented here earlier. But to satisfy your curiosity:
"Is Internet access of interest? S-Class owners can check the news or stock quotes or sports scores on their cars (when it works of course!)." Not to me - probably unsafe
"Is a rear view camera like the new Q has interesting?" Not to me - doubt it's very useful from what I've read. Sounds more gimmicky.
"Would a long wheelbase version of the LS430 be of interest?" Not to me, I have all the room I need, but I imagine some might like it, esp. the chauferred crowd, but they would most likely opt for a different car in the first place.
"How about more power or a V12?" It might be a nice option for some, but again, not for me - I have all the power I need and can easily keep up/pass the majority of the others.
"How about massaging front seats? Why don't they offer those? I'm sure they wouldn't offer a massaging driver's seat that would operate while driving though!" That, I would like. And other cars do offer it in front, including Caddy.
"How about different colors? A brushed aluminum type interior option?" IMO, LExus could definitely do better with its color schemes, but brushed aluminum interior would not be to my taste in this type car/interior.
"Here's one I'd like to see... tie the nav system in with traffic data and have the car advise ways around it before you're even aware of it." I believe this technology is just around the corner and will be available in all the high end nav systems sooner rather than later. It has many other possibilities as well.
Lastly, please stop putting words in my mouth about this subject. I have never said my car (or any other) is perfect. I have merely pointed out some inaccuracies and misrepresentations that I believe were evident in other posters viewpoints about either their car (be it Benz, Bimmer, Jag, etc) and/or the Lexus. I am fairly certain that ljflx shares this view and don't recall his making such statements either. We both occasionally like to spar in a spirited way with some of the High End board members, but also will stand our ground in defense of a very well built and executed product (LS430) when it is demeaned for such silliness as "heritage", etc. For those that value that "heritage" I say fine. I, for one, value my comfort, my taste in luxury and interior, systems integration, supreme reliability, customer service and value for all that money spent. That always seemed to rankle the Benzophiles. Possibly because they have different priorities, spent far more and are experiencing a significant number of problems - as painfully described in their own posts.
In the end, we must all be happy with our own choices. I am with mine. I hope they are with theirs, as I truly do not wish them anything but goodwill. And to you as well.
I hope you don't object to my speaking for you, at least in part, in my previous post. I just felt we share this viewpoint and bitkahuna's post did mention you as well as myself. So I took the liberty. Maybe some took my humorous reference to the Benz/tow truck as not so humorous, but I had just finished reading yet another S Class post of disaster and couldn't resist. Anyway, my apologies if anything I said in relation to your views was incorrect - but I doubt it. Hope you had a great 4th. Most of the fireworks here in the Annapolis area were from the violent thunderstorms.
Bitkahuna, here's a few of my wish's. A choice as whether or not to spend 1000+ dollars for the Lexus Link System. A power sun roof shade. Ability to change destinations on the navigation system while driving. A more complete navigation system for we rural residents. A hands free telephone system that would accept your phone or a phone and service company of your choice. More cooling power for the cooled front seats. Have the front seat slide rearward a few inches when the key is removed. I have memory #3 set to do this now. Have the memory seat/mirrors/steering wheel work quicker. Now, first steering wheel positions then seat positions. Have both move at once. Better AM/FM reception. Satellite Radio Reception ability. Aim the parking assist sonar lower to pick up curbs (it doesn't catch them all the time - will talk to my service dept at the 1st oil change). The car should be 3 to 4" longer adding some length to the hood. Dream on...............
flint350 - I guess your "private opinion of the question/context" was about my 'drool' comment which as I said, was a joke. Take it in the same spirit as your 'sparring' in the other forums. As far as putting words in your mouth, you're right, you guys didn't say it's perfect in every way, but while your deserved enthusiasm over the LS430 is great, your gloating and condescention over the problems S-Class owners are having are as bad as the 'heritage' crew slamming the LS430.
As for desired improvements, I've been in this forum a while and haven't seen any comments, but anyway...
From your comments I didn't see ANYTHING you don't like about the current LS430, which is great, but surprising.
bonger - great comments, thanks. One thing I found interesting is why you'd want the hood to be longer? Lexus takes the 'form follows function' approach, so I guess they'd want to know what this would add to the function.
Here's another one (not a new idea)... how about a solar fan to extract heat from the cabin when the car is parked?
bitkahuna, I don't want this to turn into a semantics contest btwn us, but I take exception to your description of "condescension" in my debates with the High End board/Benz. I did not patronize anyone, merely disagreed with them on matters of fact and taste/style, as I have said. Nor do I believe I was "gloating", which would require my taking some sort of malicious pleasure out of their problems. I do not, whether you (or they)think otherwise. You use humor, as you suggest with your "drool" comment and others. That is all my tow truck comment was, as should be obvious. Why my humor is gloating and yours is not, is not for me to decide and I imagine would draw the fire of the hosts as getting far afield here. So, I'll let it go. As for your improvements, I responded to your suggestions. If you truly have been around this board for a while, I don't know how you could have missed so many past discussions of both improvements and complaints. These have included groaning steering columns, moonroof rattles and the ever-popular poor cell phone integration. We have all been hard on that last one - how did you miss it?? There have been numerous calls for additions/improvements as well. Some of the nav. system items mentioned by bonger have been previously requested, cruise control changes, better option packaging, to name a few. I would also agree with bonger on the improved cooling seats and would like more active voice integration in the nav. Much of this will come, I would imagine, in the near future. My point is and always was, that Lexus is doing a better job of all this than the others, but they are not perfect. All of these cars are fine examples of the breed, but when we tried to have that discussion in the comparo boards where it belongs, we were roundly chastised with poor logic and bad facts. There is a hard core element that can't accept the faults in their favorite - and they all, including Lexus, have faults. I accept mine. Lastly, your "drool" comment was only part of my reason stated previoulsy. I did take it as humor, but there were other issues - and when we get into them, it bugs the hosts and appears to become personal. It isn't personal with me, though it might seem that way. I just like an even playing field where all opinions are welcome.
Thanks Flint... hope there's no hard feelings. This forum, like all text communications, provides ample room for misinterpretation.
As far as improvements, I did see the problems mentioned of course (groaning, rattling, phone issues, etc.) but I wasn't thinking of rectifying 'bugs' as improvements really, I was thinking more about possible new features, or improvements in ergonomics or other design aspects. And to try to think as wide afield as possible, even if we ourselves might not personally buy such a feature or model.
How about a convertible LS430!? :-)
It would be interesting to know if Lexus reads these message boards (I think they would be crazy not to).
Either way, I just like to speculate how Lexus could improve the value and luxury proposition even further, particularly of its flagship sedan.
Comments
stevestein - The cruise definitely doesn't re-engage after you go through e-z pass. I tried it this morning. It did resume from 40mph though on an ordinary highway slowdown. Personally I prefer having to re-engage it after a stop or a slowdown to a very slow speed as it is a better safety policy since those type of slowdowns are a real break in your driving pattern. Flicking the cruise arm to set a new cruise speed isn't exactly a herculean task.
Do you have any idea what the dealer did to correct the rattle in your LS430 moonroof. My dealer needs to order new tracks and remove the whole inside of the roof to fix it. I really dread that day. It will be about 10 days out. Thanks for the info.
Somehow I think no matter what the farm cost it didn't put a dent in Bruce's lifestyle.
Bitkahuna - I'm not impressed by that 7 at all. I preferred the fake at Arcoates site and actually thought the best design at that site was the one BMW rejected. I would have been interested in that one. I don't think it will put any hurt in Lexus or Mercedes. The design they chose, assuming it's correct, looks like it's competing with the Q, the GS430 and BMW's own 5-series. The latter two, particularly the GS are great looking cars because the shorter wheelbase is more appropriate for that design - IMO. I think it looks too much like the Q, its' rear and especially its' rear lights are not attractive and the interior doesn't have the luxury panache of the LS - actually far from it. I also think the I-drive will be a disaster. Do you like the Q? I thought I would like it more than I do but it is a darn good value and Infiniti reliability is way up there too.
Stevestein - $8-10mln is what I read in the local papers. That's about 1-2 years interest for Bruce. Maybe. He's supposed to be a great guy.
As for the Q, I don't like the looks. The front headlights are neat, but by avoiding the need for foglights, the front spoiler makes the overall front end look cheap to me. And the quality will probably be good. But I haven't seen ONE on the road yet, but I continue to see more and more LS430s and SC430s lately too.
Price is relevant, but I think Infiniti is making the SAME MISTAKE AGAIN, with their positioning of the car as a luxury hot rod. That's just dumb, unless they really have the goods to beat a 7 series and apparently they don't.
I love that sc430 but when the Times reviewed it they said there was as much as a 2 year wait! Did you hear anything about that? What do you think of it? I drove it and it is phenomenal. I do see more and more of them on the road and most certainly many many LS430's now. I liked it in January when I had a rare to be seen one. These days I have one in my rear-view mirror everyday at some point.
I've got to stop keeping these late hours.
As for the SC - yes, I've heard about huge long waits... and people buying them and selling them the next day for 10K-20K more. I think Toyota/Lexus has a great but real problem on their hands, how to allocate the 4.3L engines between the LS, SC and GS! They must easily make the most money on the SC so I suspect they'll keep upping the production there as long as the demand is so high.
And on that point - g'nite!
http://www.bmwnation.com/home.html
The one thing I find really strange is the shape of the trunk lid, especially at the sides. I'm sure this is to make it easy to get things in and out and to maximize room, but it still looks unusual.
And while I'm now not quite as convinced on the overall design as I was, I think it's going to grow on me and be a winner in the market.
That is if all that technology works! That will be one complicated car!
Lexus is in an incredible position if they choose to get agressive. The demand for their V-8's, as you note bitkahuna, are high and they have an allocation problem. If people are willing to pay 10-20k over list or wait 2 years for the SC430, and on top of that the LS430 ultra is so hard to come by than the public is willing to pay premium prices for their cars.Given their costs to produce are much lower than MB/BMW and the Yen has held up so well (thank God I didn't short it) they have many alternate strategies. They can lenghten the car, add awd, put a v-12 in it (an LS600) and probably still sell it as the ultimate ultra LS at a price below an S-500. They can also put in a 340+ hp engine with an ultra package or the custom lux package combined with a awd option (an LS500) and keep it comparable to S-430 prices or below and they can leave the existing LS430 as is with only the ml/nav package or maybe the custom lux and awd as options. Thus a layering of the LS product line which I think they need. They can also do this with the SC and probably mix/match some of these options in the GS. The financial clout they have and breathing space they have in pricing relative to the Germans would scare the hell out of me if I was their competitor. They are in the drivers seat - let's see how agressive they drive the car.
Bitkahuna - great to talk to you. BTW - on the Jersey turnpike this morning there was a GS400 in a gorgeous blue color (never saw one before in that color before) that shot right by me (I was at 75mph at the time). Man was that car screaming - made me think of you.
Blue GS's are rare, and dealers WILL NOT stock them (they say they make the lot look bad), but I agree it looks good. Mine's silver, because I like the look and I'm lazy about cleaning cars.
If he was flying on the Jersey Turnpike I hope he's got a radar detector!
I priced the 30,000 mile check for my wifes' LS400 a few months ago: Oil change, tire rotation, cooling system flush and brake fluid replacement, at Lexus, $300.00. At Firestone, about $120.00 (I don't remember the exact price)How can anyone economically justify routine maintenance at a Lexus dealer?
I like the peace of mind of letting my dealer do the service, who I trust, and who I can give grief effectively to if anything doesn't go right, because they know if I give a bad write-up or phonecall to Lexus, it hurts them.
Does anyone have similar experience in other parts of the country?
with the ultra luxury package, i know that the interior colors are limited but does that also coincide with the exterior colors?
thanks
I had the original LS400 and a SC400 in the past. ALWAYS very happy with the cars and the service (at 3 dealerships!).
I want luxury now, not performance. Although the AS has the same 0 - 60 as the 540!
My rep was Cory Williams, 800/899-5398. He's also their Internet sales guy.
Jeff
Is this normal for this car, or do I need to visit the service department?
After a month and 1800 miles on my Custom I think it is an all around very good car. So far the nit I have trouble adjusting to is that the FM sensitivity is significantly worse than on my Pioneer equipped LS400. I can no longer listen to the only radio station I like when driving to work, WQXR in New York.
My other nits apply to the dealer installed options: Clear plastic stone protection for the front of the car (poor workmanship in applying and positioning the film). Window tint (bubbles). Alarm upgrade (never worked at all).
Cruise - my cruise maintains same speed whether I am going up or down a hill.
Motor Trend - predjudiced opinion. Several of us commented about it a few weeks back. The S-430 is noticably slower than the LS430 in 0-60 and in torque. How can any performance magazine rate that better??
E-430 4matic - Had a chance to drive the E-430 this week for 3 days as I was away on business.(How I ended up with this car on business is too long a story to get into.) Anyone who pays 60k for this car is simply buying a brand name. Couldn't wait to get back into my LS430. What an incredible difference for cars that are close in price. The E-430 is cheap and plastic like inside for a car at that price point. The leather is not high grade at all. It's not that it is a bad interior - just relative to the price. Noiser, more harsh ride and cramped interior - this is a smaller car than I realized. Either the Lexus should be $10k higher in price or the E $10k lower in price. When I got back in the LS430 I felt like I was stepping up several notches in class. The E had good handling and I do like the design - but I prefer the GS430 to this car. Nicer ride, better handling and very quiet. It's remarkable that MB can charge a price that high for a car so inferior to the LS430.
By the way the past week was an interesting car week for me. I had to drive my boss about 100 miles in my pine car before I went away. He thought the car was spectacular - couldn't believe the interior, the ride quality and the absence of noise. I told him the interior was a lot nicer looking with the nav and that the ultra or custom takes it up even further. He then demanded to drive the car. His German auto lease ends in September and he will not be re-newing. Nuff said except that the E was such a dis-appointment.
Leaving tommorrow afternoon for rest of the week. Hope everyone has a great 4th.
Anyway, I was wondering, what DON'T you like about your new LS430's, or what could be improved, or what would you like to see added?
And what would you be willing to pay for these changes / add-ons.
bitkahuna can describe us as having too much sentiment in here pro-Lexus, but this particular forum is specifically LExus! Since most of us haven't as yet experienced the volume of problems listed in the Benz forum, I don't see his point. No one here is saying Lexus is perfect. They don't say it themselves (tho, they claim to pursue it, and seem closer to it IMO than Benz).
As for the new 7, as I said to arcoates, I think it shows some promise, but I personally have doubts about the styling from the pics I've seen. The rear end looks like a marriage btwn a Porche and Intrepid.
Lastly, I too, have had the pleasure of driving (past) co-workers and others around in my Ultra and they were all highly impressed. At least one of them was a Benz owner and admitted the obvious differences in build quality and interior design. I have been in his Benz and tested the new S, and found it less to MY liking. Doesn't make me a Benz hater or Lexus zealot - just says that I have a preference and one that, at least in this forum, is shared by others of like mind. Have a great 4th - I'm off to frustrate myself on the golf course and re-learn the meaning of "humbled".
Those of you due for service may want to make sure that this procedure is followed since my dealer had never done this and was unaware of the directive. I have a feeling that others may not know about it.
The LS430 is clearly a fabulous car, but every car can be improved in one way or another.
Is Internet access of interest? S-Class owners can check the news or stock quotes or sports scores on their cars (when it works of course!).
Is a rear view camera like the new Q has interesting?
Would a long wheelbase version of the LS430 be of interest?
How about more power or a V12?
How about massaging front seats? Why don't they offer those? I'm sure they wouldn't offer a massaging driver's seat that would operate while driving though!
How about different colors? A brushed aluminum type interior option?
Here's one I'd like to see... tie the nav system in with traffic data and have the car advise ways around it before you're even aware of it.
What do you think?
"Is Internet access of interest? S-Class owners can check the news or stock quotes or sports scores on their cars (when it works of course!)."
Not to me - probably unsafe
"Is a rear view camera like the new Q has interesting?"
Not to me - doubt it's very useful from what I've read. Sounds more gimmicky.
"Would a long wheelbase version of the LS430 be of interest?"
Not to me, I have all the room I need, but I imagine some might like it, esp. the chauferred crowd, but they would most likely opt for a different car in the first place.
"How about more power or a V12?"
It might be a nice option for some, but again, not for me - I have all the power I need and can easily keep up/pass the majority of the others.
"How about massaging front seats? Why don't they offer those? I'm sure they wouldn't offer a massaging driver's seat that would operate while driving though!"
That, I would like. And other cars do offer it in front, including Caddy.
"How about different colors? A brushed aluminum type interior option?"
IMO, LExus could definitely do better with its color schemes, but brushed aluminum interior would not be to my taste in this type car/interior.
"Here's one I'd like to see... tie the nav system in with traffic data and have the car advise ways around it before you're even aware of it."
I believe this technology is just around the corner and will be available in all the high end nav systems sooner rather than later. It has many other possibilities as well.
Lastly, please stop putting words in my mouth about this subject. I have never said my car (or any other) is perfect. I have merely pointed out some inaccuracies and misrepresentations that I believe were evident in other posters viewpoints about either their car (be it Benz, Bimmer, Jag, etc) and/or the Lexus. I am fairly certain that ljflx shares this view and don't recall his making such statements either. We both occasionally like to spar in a spirited way with some of the High End board members, but also will stand our ground in defense of a very well built and executed product (LS430) when it is demeaned for such silliness as "heritage", etc. For those that value that "heritage" I say fine. I, for one, value my comfort, my taste in luxury and interior, systems integration, supreme reliability, customer service and value for all that money spent. That always seemed to rankle the Benzophiles. Possibly because they have different priorities, spent far more and are experiencing a significant number of problems - as painfully described in their own posts.
In the end, we must all be happy with our own choices. I am with mine. I hope they are with theirs, as I truly do not wish them anything but goodwill. And to you as well.
A choice as whether or not to spend 1000+ dollars for the Lexus Link System.
A power sun roof shade.
Ability to change destinations on the navigation system while driving.
A more complete navigation system for we rural residents.
A hands free telephone system that would accept your phone or a phone and service company of your choice.
More cooling power for the cooled front seats.
Have the front seat slide rearward a few inches when the key is removed. I have memory #3 set to do this now.
Have the memory seat/mirrors/steering wheel work quicker. Now, first steering wheel positions then seat positions. Have both move at once.
Better AM/FM reception.
Satellite Radio Reception ability.
Aim the parking assist sonar lower to pick up curbs (it doesn't catch them all the time - will talk to my service dept at the 1st oil change).
The car should be 3 to 4" longer adding some length to the hood.
Dream on...............
As for desired improvements, I've been in this forum a while and haven't seen any comments, but anyway...
From your comments I didn't see ANYTHING you don't like about the current LS430, which is great, but surprising.
bonger - great comments, thanks. One thing I found interesting is why you'd want the hood to be longer? Lexus takes the 'form follows function' approach, so I guess they'd want to know what this would add to the function.
Here's another one (not a new idea)... how about a solar fan to extract heat from the cabin when the car is parked?
As for your improvements, I responded to your suggestions. If you truly have been around this board for a while, I don't know how you could have missed so many past discussions of both improvements and complaints. These have included groaning steering columns, moonroof rattles and the ever-popular poor cell phone integration. We have all been hard on that last one - how did you miss it??
There have been numerous calls for additions/improvements as well. Some of the nav. system items mentioned by bonger have been previously requested, cruise control changes, better option packaging, to name a few. I would also agree with bonger on the improved cooling seats and would like more active voice integration in the nav. Much of this will come, I would imagine, in the near future.
My point is and always was, that Lexus is doing a better job of all this than the others, but they are not perfect. All of these cars are fine examples of the breed, but when we tried to have that discussion in the comparo boards where it belongs, we were roundly chastised with poor logic and bad facts. There is a hard core element that can't accept the faults in their favorite - and they all, including Lexus, have faults. I accept mine.
Lastly, your "drool" comment was only part of my reason stated previoulsy. I did take it as humor, but there were other issues - and when we get into them, it bugs the hosts and appears to become personal. It isn't personal with me, though it might seem that way. I just like an even playing field where all opinions are welcome.
As far as improvements, I did see the problems mentioned of course (groaning, rattling, phone issues, etc.) but I wasn't thinking of rectifying 'bugs' as improvements really, I was thinking more about possible new features, or improvements in ergonomics or other design aspects. And to try to think as wide afield as possible, even if we ourselves might not personally buy such a feature or model.
How about a convertible LS430!? :-)
It would be interesting to know if Lexus reads these message boards (I think they would be crazy not to).
Either way, I just like to speculate how Lexus could improve the value and luxury proposition even further, particularly of its flagship sedan.