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Lexus LS 400/LS 430

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Comments

  • nofeernofeer Member Posts: 381
    Oh yes, from what i am told the eurotuned suspension can't be had as a separate option till ?
  • ejerodejerod Member Posts: 86
    I'm so confused. Here I was ready to order the new LS430 then I went back to the MB dealer and drove the S500 again. I know it's not an apple to apple comparison, but I want the larger engine on the 5 as opposed to the S430. I can't for the life of me get myself to like the new styling of the exterior of the LS430. After the rebirth of the GS series of cars ( I own a 99 GS 300) and the introduction of the new SC Coupe, how in God green earth did they come up with the rear end of a Toyota Avalon for a car with such gorgeous interior appointments ? Ok.. I said I was going to order the LS, but I'm going to wait til the beginning of the year. Maybe it will grow on me, but right now I'm leaning heavily to the S500 again, especially with the AMG sport package. Lexus is a great company, adn of course they offer the best value in the lux car division, but the styling of this new LS just does nothing for me. Darn, I don't want to spend the extra money for the S, but I have to be happy when I open my garage door in the morning...
  • enigmaoneenigmaone Member Posts: 128
    nofeer,

    I suggest you wait awhile. In a few months the variations will become alot greater. The build variations of a car are always less in the initial months. Its just the way it is for several reasons. One reason that build variations are kept down is to keep quality up in the initial months. And this is especially necessary because this LS is unlike either of the other 2 LS400s that preceded it. Second, car makers generally guess wrong when a car is first introduced. IN 1997, Lexus pumped too many AVS equipped ES300s and nobody wanted them, so they built less after a while. The GS400: everyone wanted HID lights, so after about 3 months, basically all GS400s started coming with HID lights. And remember what Lexus finds out today from customers will take about 3-4 months to get to dealers.

    They do need to find better ways of finding out what people want, and its not just Lexus that needs to do it..

    midnightcowboy,

    5-6 car lengths for the cruise control. Whats wrong with that? You want to be tailgating a person in front of you? You do know for every 10mph, 1 -car length of space between you and the person in front of you?

    Second, how is the laser cruise control going to prevent someone from cutting in front of you?
  • nofeernofeer Member Posts: 381
    I think you are making a big mistake getting the s500 over the ls430. it will be 20-25k more and same power and aprox same 0-60. I will agree the front end is more stylish than the ls430 but the rear of the s500 (my partner owns one and 2 others including a designo series parks near me) look like a honda... from the side is not very distinctive.
    now the build quality, this is why myself and others are going to ls430. constant qlitches check the mb boards and better service. all kinds of electrical glitches. My partner could never get his voice actitvated phone to work after 4 tries. also the command system is confusing and too many buttons, small screen that's down low and difficult to view and use. try changing the a/c temp. ls430 has a separate button. interesting on the new E class the command system will be upgraded and changed. just wait

    there are things on the ls430 that MB can't get. try to get the sonar parking its $1000 custom option ordering fee plus the charge for the parking assist. rear controls in the MB where? s has more legroom (barely)

    but its your nickel.....check out the MB s class boards.
  • jimhasseljimhassel Member Posts: 3
    Is the ride noticeably better with air suspension?
  • nofeernofeer Member Posts: 381
    From what i believe in the Motor trend and car and driver reports one of those mags tested all forms of the suspension. for just around town i think they are comparable( the sport does have a firmer ride and more responsive and for only $100--the deal of the decade), but with pot holes, big transitions in the road, speed bumps i think they said the air suspension was "as if they were not there". If i could get the air suspension as a separate option i'd probably get it. but with the way lexus is that won't be available till next "spring" check out those mags and read for yourself.
  • nofeernofeer Member Posts: 381
    If the wood in the new ultra was maple i would have bought the ultra to get all those goodies, and forget the fact that i would never use the rear seat stuff, rather than wait till spring for the custom luxury pack.
  • sfmartinsfmartin Member Posts: 59
    Has anyone found out for sure if the air suspension is included in the custom luxury option? The printed brochure does not include it, the Lexus web site does.
  • nofeernofeer Member Posts: 381
    I don't know about the air suspension--my salesman says the custom lux pack is the ultra lux without all the rear seat stuff, this would assume air suspension is included, but you are correct, i looked at the brochure and its not listed, unless its an add on option$$$$, which the brochure lists, you should talk to your salesperson. they may not know when this package will be available. maybe after mid december or early jan. we will learn more.

    My dealer says that lexus started building--maple, nav/lev/lexus link in november and should be available on the lot by mid to late dec. but lexus site says i can't even "build" this combo--the lexus site lags behind.
    but do you think you have another wood option other than that "grey" ecru wood. For the air conditioned seats you would think they needed perforated leather. well the only perforated leather in the brochure (like the ultra lux) is the grey wood--i hope not, let's hope lexus gives more choices, i bet alot of people complained about 1. limitation of options and 2. grey wood

    I can't get the eurotuned suspension, but would like all season tires--what size are they, the brochure is comfusing. What is the standard tire and is it all season?
  • nofeernofeer Member Posts: 381
    I have a cell phone with hands free but the unit plugs into the accessory outlet. on my m class it's on the tunnel side of the passenger footwell. where are they in the ls430?, lexus lists 4, but any of you who has one (lucky) let me know.
  • enigmaoneenigmaone Member Posts: 128
    I know one is in the center armrest and I believe one is in the rear seat area and one is in the trunk. The last one I don't know.
  • ardoardo Member Posts: 4
    the fourth is the lighter in the ashtray.
  • anonymousanonymous Member Posts: 314
    There has been a lot of dissatisfaction voiced about the ecru wood for its grey color. In the brochure showing the interior and in the car itself it doesn't look grey to me. It is brown like mahogany. The brochure color chart does make it look grey, which is deceiving. As far as it looking like plastic, all of the wood types look like plastic to me, including the limited amount on my '90 and the more abundant on my wife's '98. Anyway not a problem for me.

    There is a DC outlet in the ashtray just to the right of the gear shift-- perfect place for the hands-free cellular phone and the remote for the Valentine radar detector (using dual DC outlet adapter).

    I think there is confusion on the 17 inch tires available as an option with the ultra package. Even tho they are summer tires, the tread wear is that of the H speed rating and should last about 40,000 miles. The brochure only cautions about the limited tread wear of the 17 inch "W" rated tire on the sports package as being about 15,000 miles.

    Fred
  • confused23confused23 Member Posts: 2
    just read over 600 comments about this debate.
    confused as ever. looked at a 2000 q anniversary
    demo with 10,000 miles for $42,000 and have seen
    1997 ls 400s with 25,000 mi. certified for $34,000.
    i want to own it for 6 or more years and get
    150,000 miles of hassle-free driving. don't care
    about style, power- just want DEPENDABILITY. please
    advise
  • jimeisterjimeister Member Posts: 9
    Greetings everybody. I've been a lurker here for some time.

    I had the pleasure of seeing the LS 430 on display while attending the New England International Auto Show today in Boston. As expected, Lexus was positioned immediately adjacent to MB, both clearly competing head-to-head in the luxury car market.

    Two LS 430's were on display at the show...a Parchment Ultra Lux and a Black Nav/Lev. The Ultra Lux was placed literally on a rotating pedestal under bright lights, and attracted a significant amount of attention.

    Both of the 430's were beautiful. However, I've got to question the Parchment exterior (gorgeous) with an Ecru and ***GRAY*** wood interior? Was this wood some sort of bad joke? The Black Nav/Lev with the ivory interior and normal wood hues looked MUCH more attractive.

    I've compared the MB S430 to the Lexus LS 430 very carefully...and it's no contest. MB had better cut the price on the S model about $10K or they're going to be sitting on quite an inventory. In the mean time Lexus had better find a replacement for the gray wood!

    The Lexus rep at the show indicated that the vast majority of the Nav/Lev's were being shipped with the Euro-Tuned sport suspension which is contrary to what my local dealer has been telling me.

    I want a Parchment/Ecru Nav/Lev with the Euro-Tuned suspension without the grey wood. I'm willing to wait for wood grain color found in nature.

    Does anybody think Lexus will change the color of the wood with the Ecru color scheme?

    Has anybody found a dealer willing to accept less that MSRP on a cash deal?

    Thank You,
    Jim
  • sfmartinsfmartin Member Posts: 59
    According to the brochure, the grey wood only comes with the Ultra Lux option. Otherwise, the ecru comes with the Golden Birds-eye Maple.
  • jimeisterjimeister Member Posts: 9
    Thanks for the information on the gray wood.

    If I paid over $14K for the Ultra Lux option with Ecru I'd be extremely bummed-out about the gray wood.

    The Golden Birds-eye maple is SO much more attractive!

    For those that haven't seen the Parchment exterior...it beautiful.

    Thanks,
    Jim
  • jimeisterjimeister Member Posts: 9
    I spoke to a Lexus salesman today who I'd met at the New England International Auto Show in Boston. He works at one of the Boston area Lexus dealerships.

    I asked to test drive on of their LS 430's. He laughed and said they have none other than the two locked up this week at the show. He did offer that he'd take a $5K deposit on one for a two-month wait. LOL.

    The salesman also stated that all the LS 430's they'd received with the Nav/Lev package had also arrived equipped with the Lexus Link option. FWIW.

    The search goes on...

    Jim
  • davidjay1davidjay1 Member Posts: 1
    I visited my local Lexus dealer (Austin) who had 3 430s (one sold and 2 demos, one UL and one almost basic). I agree with the flow of the message board that the exterior is pretty dull and the interior is fabulous. A lot of people won't like the "grey" wood and won't want to pay for all the rear seat features, so be sure that Lexus will improve the situation with the buying options (just need a little patience). Even though I was looking, and not shoping, the salesperson was fabulous.
  • newlexinewlexi Member Posts: 9
    I took the plunge this weekend and purchased the Lexus LS 430 with the UL package. The car is smooth and luxurious beyond belief. However, the UL package has several relatively useless features including the back seat massage, laser cruise control (for me at least), back seat radio controls, etc. I think Lexus should break the UL package to several components and allow the customers to pick and choose.

    On the whole, however, this car is like a dream!
  • noangerdocnoangerdoc Member Posts: 4
    Greetings to flint350 and enigmaone. Sorry about the delay in responding to your posts. Regarding the discount, I simply asked for it. I asked for "something off" on the price, all the while acknowledging that they needed to make a healthy profit on the purchase so they can remain in business. I always seek "win-win" propositions and I never have to have a product so badly that I am willing to pay full price. In addition to cars, I enjoy fine watches (prefer Breguet's to over sold Patek's) and would never think of paying list for a piece of jewelry. The waiting list for the car is 30-45 days for the combination I specified. I don't think that is too long to wait. The market for cars in Memphis is not as "hot" as in LA or New York and I think they are more open to dealing.

    To edspider1, congratulations on our selection as well. We can start a mutual admiration society. I test drove the car the other day and was even more impressed than when I ordered it. It is a dream and I wish you many happy miles of safe driving.
  • edspider1edspider1 Member Posts: 195
    Hey all. Stop wining about the cost of the UL package and pleading for the custom luxury. Yeah, the back seat stuff doesn't do a thing for the driver. But I tell you, everyone who sits back there talks about it. It is a key feature that no one else has.

    Those of you who don't like the wood tints on the UL. Well, they aren't the greatest. Lexus is very responsive. A lot more so than Chrysler (aka MB). I'm sure that in 5 months or so, there will be some better choices. But do you really want to wait that long?

    To Mr "I think I like the S Class". You are completely correct about styling. The S has more class (pun intended). The wood colors are natural. But I find the LS to be more comfortable and quieter. Also, the NAV is far more advanced than what's going into the S. The Lexus is more reliable than the S. After all the Japanese have more experience with electronic features than the Germans.

    To noangerdoc, I could not tell if you took delivery or not. What colors did you choose?
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Member Posts: 1,978
    Comments

    to #214 I relooked and the short setting on the Laser control held the car about 8-9 car lengths at 50 mph. I had orginally said 5-6 and didn't indicate the speed. I still think this is too long to be useful.

    to #218 Agree the golden Maple is the best. Therere was a eurotuned with chrome wheels and eru with golden maple.

    to #218 the spec sheet I got from the delaer had air sus with the custom lux package


    to #224 Th ultra ecru wood does not look good in person . It looks like polished grey formica.

    A couple of weeks ago The internet contact in california was offering $2,000 off. My delaer has cars on the lot avaialble and is offering $1,500 discount. I think the price will drop dramatically on the utraluxes because people, nyself included, don't like purple and grey as the only wood choices.

    However, the car is awesome and as soon as they get the color straightened out I will get the utlralux.

    Thanks,
    midnightcowboy
  • giff1giff1 Member Posts: 1
    My wife's '93 LS400 had the rear window shattered by a punk. Lexus can't locate or tell me when a replacement will be in the COUNTRY. Besides junkyards, any ideas out there?
    giff1

    P.S. Had the car at 120+ early in the AM. The car is now eight years old and was rock solid
  • enigmaoneenigmaone Member Posts: 128
    giff1,

    Check a local Auto glass place. One of those shops can probably get one before the dealer can.
  • lexusfanlexusfan Member Posts: 22
    I would strongly advise using only Toyota replacement parts, or at least checking on the competency of the shop. I went through no less than three windshields on my Toyota, and finally traded it in before I was really happy with the replacement windshield. The first one cracked a week after it was installed, and the next two had enough distortion to give me a good headache after a long drive.
  • noangerdocnoangerdoc Member Posts: 4
    To edspider1, I will take delivery in 30-45 days. I chose the Millenium Silver with the black analine leather.
  • jimeisterjimeister Member Posts: 9
    My wife and I test drove a Black/Black Nav/Lev Euro-tuned LS 430 today. We went to the dealer with every intention of simply driving the vehicle and NOT making a purchase decision until a later date. Read on.

    I mentioned to the Lexus sales person that I was curious as to how the Euro-tuned version felt on very rough surfaces, with the country road which leads out of our neighborhood in mind. He said "let's drive over and see." I was absolutely astounded as how well the vehicle took the bumps...almost silent yet with enough feel to negotiate our tax-supported obstacle course.

    The fit and finish on the car is beautiful. Lexus has left nothing undone. The 17" wheels and low-profile tires (a required option with the Euro-tuned suspension) give the car a mild MB "AMG" look...very attractive. The Golden Birds-Eye Maple wood trim is far more attractive than the Ecru Bird's Eye Maple in the Ultra Lux.

    While doing 60 MPH on the expressway (OK, I'm an East Coaster) I stomped on the accelerator. I was astounded at how fast the speedo topped 80, and with virtually no discernible road or engine noise.

    The Levinson radio is quite nice...but not astoundingly better than the stereo in my wife's LX 450 (which is a superb system). I suspect the standard stereo in the LS 430 is probably adequate for all but the most demanding audiophile.

    The LS 430 NAV system is state-of-the-art...amazingly good at providing directions with enough warning so as to be useful. The Lexus Link is a neat feature as well...Lo-Jack no longer required!

    After carefully comparing the LS 430 to the MB S430 I'm of the opinion that the LS 430 offers a comparable package at $10K less than its Teutonic counterpart.

    I was really proud of myself. I almost made it out the door and home without buying the LS 430 today...as intended...almost. After thanking the sales person for his time and walking out the showroom door...we discused it for a few minutes and walked back in and put a deposit on a Parchment Nav/Lev Euro-Tune. Sadly, I paid full MSRP...I can't find anybody here in the Northeast that'll knock anything off the sticker price. Has anybody had any luck in that regard?

    The wait is projected to be 1-2 months.

    Bottom line: the LS 430 is a beautiful car at a rock-bottom price.

    Anybody have any thoughts as to whether Lexus is going to increase the price on the LS 430 after the first of the year?

    Thanks,
    Jim
  • flint350flint350 Member Posts: 250
    Just returned from business trip to Texas. Spoke with some very high volume dealers there and was told that, contrary to early expectations, most cars coming in are and will be non-ultra for a while yet. Reason is that in previous years the nav combos only got about 5-10% interest. So the nav manufacturer was not sufficiently ramped up to keep up with enough systems for all the ultras. Most people on the "lists" are waiting on ultras and this will cause delays. Also, these dealers had lists of 200-300 and say they are insisting on full MSRP. (Dallas area) The only available cars I saw at any dealer were the far less equipped versions. I have now seen the grey ecru wood in the dark blue and black cherry versions and it is actually beginning to grow on me. Especially in those combos. Kind of looks elegant and like marble. And it is certainly unique. I was opposed at first, but am coming around. To each his own, I guess.
    Oh, and the Tex. dealers also said something about a problem in getting the dark leathers for the ultras as well. So mostly, if not all, ecru leather for a while.
  • im_brentwoodim_brentwood Member Posts: 4,883
    Availability of the Dark-Interiored Ultra-Lux cars is going to be very tight at first. From what or Lexus reps say, it's because of a shortage of Oxen hides that the Bordeaux and Black leather comes from.

    As far as the availability of specific cars goes.. it's not exactly ordering. We can "preference" cars, but right now, specifically ordering one is difficult. Basically, Lexus will produce X number of cars like this, X number like that, X number with this.. etc. Then we decide which color combos we want.

    This is due to color difficulty (Interiors on non-ecru ULs) and initial production ramp-up.

    As far as discounting goes.. I'm in Orlando, and occasionally other dealers in the state will try and steal a customer from us by quoting ridiculous numbers. I've tested most in the area and havent been able to get them to budge so far. Only car I was offered was $2K off a Midnight Pine/Black car with Moonroof and Heated seats only. Well, no kidding! Who wants that in FL! :)

    Bill
  • edspider1edspider1 Member Posts: 195
    Lexus is getting rich off the profit in these cars and we're getting a lot car for the money. List is still a good VALUE compared to the car's only competition (MB S430). Its a win win proposition. I'm just thankful that Lexus dealers don't charge over list.

    My dealer presells his allotment as fast he learns what it is. In the Chicago area, if you haven't already gotten in line, you'll be waiting until next year.

    If its true about the NAV supply shortage, better buy quick. You DON'T want an LS without Navigation.
  • nofeernofeer Member Posts: 381
    If you look at the power/torque,performance, and options it's closer to the s500 the ultr lux has much more than the s430 or s500 and you can "choose" the wood interior without going to the MB special order costs and designo series. With nav/lev/lexus link package/eurotuned suspension it's still closer to the s500 in performance and HP. What does the s500 have that the nav/lev/lexus link /euro susp doesn't?. when you compare this, the $$$$$$$ difference grows even more. the MB does however use 66% residual rather than 60 or 62% When the custom luxury group becomes available the s500 cost differnce grows more.
    You really can't compare to the s430. MB separates it's vehicles mostly by engine size, so is the s500 cost worth it? MB has some $$$$$ pressure.

    I will admit the MB is more stylish but hey the interior of the ls is beyond approach....and that's where i'll be most of the time others can just look.
  • pathdocpathdoc Member Posts: 126
    The buying public is still voting for the S500. It has been out for over a year and is still in very short supply. All at list price. Also the residual on a lease may actually make a S class less to lease. The latest Automobile magazine gave the LS a good review but implied that it still doesn't engender the excitement of an S class or BMW 740i. I have driven both S500 and Lexus LS430 and with the exception of the Ecru "wood" I was impressed and might get one based upon the reliabilty factor and the superiority of the local Lexus dealer compared to the local MB dealer. Nevertheless I don't believe the Lexus is as interesting as the MB particularly for auto enthusiasts.
  • swiftmswiftm Member Posts: 68
    Everybody: Anybody knows about the Lexus loyalty rebate? Where can I find the information? thanks in advance. Swift
  • racqballracqball Member Posts: 2
    Can anyone talk about their experience with this car? Looking to buy one for 10K with 94,000 miles. However it needs A/C compressor. Is this a fair deal? Can anyone advice. Thanks
  • enigmaoneenigmaone Member Posts: 128
    swiftm,

    Sorry. The Loyalty rebate is gone for 2001 LS430s, as well as 2001 IS300s, and 2001 SC430s.
  • rtboonrtboon Member Posts: 21
    I have seen people mention that these problems, that existed in the early LS 400's, were fixed in later models. Does anyone know what year they were "fixed" and what the fix was?

    Bob
    94 LS 400
    00 RX 300
  • swiftmswiftm Member Posts: 68
    enigmaone: Thank you for taking the time, what about 01-RX300 I purchased recently? Swiftm
  • kelfkelf Member Posts: 83
    The 12/2000 issue of Kiplinger on ps:130 and 131 list "target price" of $50,295 vs the invoice price of $49,274. What do you think Kiplinger would do if you ask them to produce a dealer who will sell the car for $50,295???? Just to make it more puzzling they had a target price of $101,158 for the 01 Porsche Turbo????? Has anyone able to get prices close to invoice on either one of these new cars?
  • flint350flint350 Member Posts: 250
    As for Kip., I believe all they do is apply a set discount number to all invoices and state that is their "target" price - meaning, you the customer, should argue with all dealers to get around that figure. They don't really mean they know of specific dealers offering that price.
    As for my conscience, I visited another local dealer in my area (about 30 miles from me vs. 10 for my "regular" dealer). I expressed an interest in a specific LS430 combo and he got back to me saying he could probably have it in December. My local dealer who has my deposit has been less optimistic. Actually, I only hear from him when I infrequently call with a specific question. He has offered no timetable at all. Maybe the new dealer is fudging to steal the business, but he seemed very sincere and accomodating - even offering a test drive immediately (my dealer hasn't yet gotten back to me on that). So, I am a little conflicted. I don't really mind waiting a little longer, but I have been just a little disappointed with the original salesman (3 or 4 specific annoyances). This is getting a little long, so I won't elaborate more, but I am tempted to say "go ahead" with the new guy and see what happens. I feel a little guilty, but....
  • flint350flint350 Member Posts: 250
    Wanted to add, the "new" dealer is a charter dealer with higher volume, so I believe he may actually be able to deliver on his estimate. Again, the timing isn't that important to me, I can wait. It's mostly my gnawing feeling of disappointment with the closer guy. Pluses and minuses on both sides, I guess.
  • msemmsem Member Posts: 6
    Check out the Dealer willing to talk with you and let you test drive a car. In October I contacted 4 dealers. 2 Dealers informed me that nothing would be available until January at the earliest. 1 dealer never responded. The Elite dealer called back immediately. I when over and test drove a car. Suppose to get car before Thanksgiving. My closest Dealer was giving me back info such as Nav system is real time on-line updates, LS430 would not be arriving until Nov or Dec and had no information on pricing or options. Good luck, find a Dealer that can answer questions.
  • nofeernofeer Member Posts: 381
    What happened to placemarks, i haven't been able to get to mine therefore have to do a search for this forum--i can't bookmark this page.

    I agree about the s500, it is classy, but it's got it's drawbacks, they really need to redo the dash and nav system. get an indash cd changer, bigger screen and more intuitive. bang for the buck= lexus. if you were to equip the s500 similar to the ls430 ( some options can't get on the MB) i wonder what the $$$$ difference is.

    MB has a better lease residual than lexus so you're right it might to cheaper to lease a MB (i haven't checked $ for $ yet, since i wanted the interior of the lexus over the MB)
    has anyone made this $$$ comparison option for option? Say base s430/s500 with ls430 similarly equiped?
  • rennyboschrennybosch Member Posts: 329
    Where in California are you? And who is the Internet contact? I'm in Southern California and sure haven't heard about any discounts on LS 430's.
  • enigmaoneenigmaone Member Posts: 128
    swiftm,

    If you owned a Lexus or Toyota before you bought the 2001 RX300, you should have gotten a Loyalty Rebate of $1K.

    kelf,

    I don't think you will be able to get either of the 2 cars you mentioned for anywhere near invoice. If Kiplinger can get you a LS430 for only a grand over cost, I think it would a bigger miracle than world peace ever happening!
  • jimeisterjimeister Member Posts: 9
    The propaganda I've heard here on the East Coast is that Lexus USA would "slow down" LS 430 allocations to any dealer discounting the car to any amount under MSRP.

    Price fixing?

    Perhaps.

    Jim
  • swithrow2swithrow2 Member Posts: 41
    An S500 loaded up like an Ultra Luxury LS430 would run about $92,000. The lease is still more, I was quoted $1400. The base S430 is downright sad, leather so hard it feels fake.
  • mkynardmkynard Member Posts: 16
    You're the man. You're one of the few individuals I've ran into that has a clue to how the media portrays German car companies as god. I saw one of your earlier posts. Check out mine #580/581 in the Lexus IS 300 vs Acura TL forum here at Edmunds. I think a guy like you may appreciate it.
  • anonymousanonymous Member Posts: 314
    Hmmm, Jim if Lexus would slow down allocations for dealers who discounted, it would seem to follow that they would speed up allocations for those who added a markup. Sounds like dealer propaganda to me.

    Fred
  • swiftmswiftm Member Posts: 68
    Everybody: $500 loyalty rebate apply to current or previous(6mons)Lexus/Toyota owner, as I am told by Lexus customer service center. Swiftm
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