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( which is also available for the 16" wheels). My OE Bridgestones on the LS430 would float on rain flooded highways. Not so with these tires; they stick like glue. Forget cheap tires on the Lexus. The tires are an important part of its performance capablilty and road safety.
Most wanted sedan over $45,000 MBz E-SERIES
Horrible mention Lexus LS 430
Most wanted Sedan under $45,000 BMW 5-series
Honorable Mention Infinity
Just thought I would mention this tidbit.
Et610 - Lexus does lose one now and then. Having driven the E many times I wouldn't even think of it in this company. I guess it also means the E is more desirable (better?? - no way!) than the S which would then mean something is wrong in the Benz hierarchy of life.
The most desireable business jet??!!
I have never owned a Lexus and would like to hear from current owners mainly LS430
owners. What kinda lease should I look for? I currently have a brand new 2002 Nissan Maxima
GLE and decided I want to upgrade. Please email with your thoughts/advise.
Isn't that the way it goes, the newest car beats the older car? Next year I'm sure it will be the new 5-Series or GS.
M
BTW, I think the new E's exterior is just gorgeous. The interior is not, and its too cramped for my tastes, but the exterior is just beautiful.
Absolutely;for many (myself included), "new" often equates with "best" and "desireability". I still find it pretty amazing, that the three year old LS sits second on the list as opposed to other newer designs (the 7 series for example, which I find desireable in many ways). I also agree with you that the E will likely be displaced quickly; probably the 5 series if BMW doesn't screw it up too badly.
nealm1: Couldn't agree with you more, on both counts. It is very easy to dismiss another's subjective opinion when it does not fit with your own. The "High End Luxury Marques" board is littered with incredible attempts to "prove" one person's subjective opinion is objective fact.
brtmd,
Well Edmunds isn't going to put a car of S-Class or 7-Series price on that list for the over 55K category, thats too much over 55K for their tastes. Value is the reason for the LS430's continued spot on their list.
M
No question, the LS is an incredible value. When you offer what the competitor has for less money, that is value; this is clearly pointed out in the summary of the LS from the "2003 Best" list. With regard to the Edmunds editors "tastes" (and I will not claim to be clairvoyant and profess to know what their tastes are), it sounds to me that when all else is equal, a good value makes it better than the competition.
BTW, the category for 2003 is "best sedan over $45,000" with no upper limit for price. This is quite evident in the category "best convertible over $45,000" where the $90,000+ SL won top honors. The criteria for the list are written at the end of the piece.
Navigation: Effective tool that has kept me on track, especially when I was pressed for time. Sometimes the DVD doesn't have the street number I have, and I did ignore its plea to make a U-turn on a post DVD completed turnpike! What I really appreciate is the ability to save locations and retrieve them when needed. Many times I have thought I could remember getting somewhere I got to months ago, but when I get out on the road and nearby, I'd forget. The save feature is most helpful; I wish I could syncronize my palm pilot with it for addresses/phone numbers/appt. reminders. Anybody with Lexus reading this?
Park assist: Very effective tool. Wish I had this on our LX470 that has even more blind spots at bumper level. Better yet, a video camera on the back of it like the Q45, so I could hook up the boat trailer alone. I'm digressing. This is the one of the most practical gizmos on a car in a long time, especially for a new car owner who is anal about not making the first scratch on the car.
Mark Levinson: Discernable to me only with a CD, but it has remarkably good sound.
Lexus Link: Overpriced and annoying voice introduction. Can one turn that voice off? My kingdom for someone that can turn that announcement off!
* I use the NAV system and laser cruise control all the time. The laser cruise control enhances safety by maintaining a safe distance. I tested the Brake Assist when I was not using the laser cruise control.
* I use the Park Assist to pull into my garage just far enough to close the garage door behind the car.
* My daughter uses the rear seat radio controls.
* Nobody uses the rear seat vibrators more than 5 seconds.
* I use the rear and side window screens most of the year here in California.
* Passengers seem to like the auto door closers because the doors close quietly, no slamming necessary.
* I store drinking water in my rear refrigerator, but I don't and can't depend on the water being cool.
* I guess the air suspension is working. The car does not lean in curves or when braking.
I did figure out why my link announcement is so loud. My eight year old turned the volume up, so she could hear recordings of herself from the back seat.
In the case of the SL there is nothing else even close, hence they picking it for that category, though their categories could be a little more seperated.
M
Someone else can probably give you a more consise answer with brand names of tires.
For me, when discussing an LS430, performance would mean quiet, smooth, comfortable, etc, etc.
For a want-to-be "boy racer", performance might mean fast corning with no lean.
I guess enough LS430 purchasers fall into the latter category that Lexus is will to accomodate them with siffer riding 17" wheels and Euro-tuned suspensions.
With regard to "nuances" and "enthusiasts", I once again disagree with attempts to make subjective blanket statements about what others discern or desire. When such statements are completely at odds with this enthusiast's personal experience, I take note. Like wwest above, when I am purchasing a full size luxury sedan, I am an enthusiast of quietness, smoothness, comfort, space, quality, reliability, capable handling (my choice of the sport suspension)--for me, the LS has these nuances in spades. I do give the European competition the nod in many areas, such as styling & "snob appeal" (forgive me for lack of a better term). However, my list of priorities for a vehicle in this category led me to the LS this time around.
Lastly, I agree with you and Edmunds on the SL; but my point was with regard to price in refuting a clairvoyant statement, "that's too much over 55k for their tastes."
Degrading performance: I am afraid the Eurotuned suspension and W rated 17 inch tires will do little to satisy the "boy-racer." Despite the handling enhancements, the LS is still amazingly serene--but there are subtle yet noticeable prices to be paid and this option is, obviously, not for everyone.
Ok I guess I can possibly see that for a LS430. The only thing I really see on your list that the LS does better than it's competition is reliability, thats not enough for me personally to put up with the LS430's other issues, but to each his own.
The S-Class and 7-Series or A8 or Jaguar XJ for that matter aren't EVER going to provide a better "value" per most Lexus' fans definition of the word. I can't help but think "value" will always mean the less-expensive car. The word is so overrated in my opinion.
It's a pretty safe bet that no matter how good a S-Class, 7-Series or A8 is it will never wind up on Edmunds list due to price. Especially if the threshold is 55K.
M
LS430 v. E class. The latter is cheaper (although not by much); the former is, IMHO and by a wide margin, the better value.
"It's a pretty safe bet that no matter how good a S-Class, 7-Series or A8 is it will never wind up on Edmunds list due to price."--Again, on this I disagree as evident with the SL example. When a product is felt to be clearly superior, value is either redefined or disregarded.
brtmd,
Oh I'm not condemning anyone, I agree that everyone has their priorities when buying a car, I guess overall what I'm saying is that people have different priorities and they should be met when spending this much on a car.
The SL winning its class is somewhat different. I still say as long as the LS430 is priced at 55K to start and the S, 7 and A8 aren't anywhere near that then the LS430 will get the nod because yes (gulp!) it does provide a *similar* experience for much less. With the SL its not even a contest with any cheaper car. And value isn't readily applied to cars with 2-seats anyway, it's a more of an emotional purchase.
M
I agree; they are similar enough that price becomes a distinguishing factor that can either be considered or disregarded. Also agree that buying a 2-seat convertible is probably based much more on desire than meeting a list of priorities. It is a highly impractical choice for many people, including my family; yet, my wife wants to drive nothing else. When it comes time for her to buy, she doesn't even want to look at anything other than a Miata.
I've wondered why the cruise control isn't smart enough to downshift (to help slow down) if the car starts accelerating past the set speed when going downhill.
Is this addressed at all in the '03 with the Laser cruise control?
FWD, and AWD with FWD bias, are the dominant vehicular configuration on the road today.
Regretably that dominance means you get to play second fiddle.
But then, for your 'tastes' and 'priorities' in a luxury car, you'd have to pony up $80K+ for your dream car. If you have that kind of $$ more power to you. I don't hence my 'value' purchase of an LS.
For the umpteenth time: To every one their choice !
go check out at www.mbusa.com
I think MB may be getting a bit worried that the edgier styling of 2000 played to the younger generation bull market crowd and that crowd is quickly dwindling. They may go back to a more classical style for the S.
Flint350 - did you see my post re the NY Times stories last week?
ljflx,
I gotta tell you that is totally ridiculous...the S-Class now looks like a Lexus. Right. Wanna bet the next LS is a yet another copy of a Mercedes, that being the current S-Class? You all are funny. You all seem to have so much insight into what Mercedes is worried about.
M
If you start going uphill, the car accelerates to maintain the selected speed, upshifting if necessary.
If you start going downhill, the car makes no attempt to maintain the selected speed, but simple speeds up as gravity dictates.
It would seem to me that the car COULD downshift in an attempt to maintain the selected speed, but doesn't.
Am I just off base on this?
First, the laser cruise control is unique to the LS430.
"Regular" cruise control "firmware", and base design, is shared across many product lines, FWD. RWD, and AWD.
Actually as I understand the T/L cruise system it will retard the timing to keep the downhill speed down, but that's about it.
By the way I know of several businesses that were targeting young people made rich by the bull market. They are rapidly changing their plans because the customer base they were targeting has pretty much evaporated. It's rather normal in business to do these kind of things.
M