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Any recommendations? Any thoughts about Lexus vs. BMW reliability and longevity as I plan on keeping the vehicle for 7+ years? Thanks in advance for any thoughts.
BMW will have better handling then the LS.
The LS will have a smoother more quiet ride, and a better Nav. system. It is slightly larger and more comfortable
The LS will be much more reliable as evidenced by every survey done in the last decade.
ONLY YOU CAN DECIDE WHICH FACTORS ARE MORE IMPORTANT TO YOU.
Color is only one of many factors at play here. The LS 430 will cost me approximately $7,000 more than the 540iA. Although I usually drive relatively sedately, I have my moments... Having recently gotten rid of a Mercedes Benz ML vehicle, I am very attuned to reliability, quality, noise, and a courteous service department.
I tested the 5 series, it drove well. I had a friend who had a 540i since 98. Pretty reliable, and the material held up pretty well after 80K miles. He tells me that it is a lot better than his Volvo and Porsche.
For me, the LS430 is the most quiet sedan of the many I tested. I am saying this after 3 years in a S500.....
Besides, the wive was kind of reluctant to allow me a car capable of 4.2 in 0-60. She might be right.
Anecdotal evidence: My good buddy's daily driver is a '99 528i. His driver-side door knob broke recently. Cost him $100 to fix. Prior to that he complained of constant steering vibration. Dealer claimed could not find the problem. My friend complained to BMW corporate. Corporate "called" dealer. Dealer put 4 brand new tires. Problem gone.
And many more issues. All these in only 8 months of ownership. Car now has 55K miles, and is CPOed.
I read somewhere on this board where a long-time BMW owner claimed his BMW dealer told him: the cars are good up to 50K miles. At higher mileage, it becomes a toss-up if yours will/will not fall within the large #'s of less than stellar reliability for the BMW.
Maybe you will be lucky. Who knows....
I buy my cars outright (no leasing), and I tend to keep them many years before replacing them. For me, the Lexus was a pretty easy choice because it is more reliable over the long term. However, if I was the type of person who kept a car three years or less, I may have gotten the BMW.
Why? Because it is more fun to drive, and the possible reliability problems wouldn't have been that big a deal over such a short time frame. I think most cars these days will be okay for 2-3 years. It is when you start hitting 6-7 years that the quality differences become more evident, and more important.
Sean
Darrel loaned rx330, the newly designed small suv, and I found it to be pretty comprable to the old one. It felt a tad larger than the previous one, and I did notice the engine noise was more muscular. THe steering whell adjusted out, and is considerably smaller than I remember. All in all a nice job, and the rear door will open automatically. Unfortunately there is a bulge where the motor is concealed, so if you had , say a table, to transport, it would not fit in there. I may be wrong and the bulge may be really out the way, but that is what it would appear to do.
The radio sounded great, and I don`t think it was an m/lev. They also have removed the ashtray completely. Tony
I used to kid my wife about her "Lexus log flume" whenever we had snow because that's about how it handled trying to pull out of the driveway. Back then she was driving the LS400, and I was driving a Honda prelude. The prelude was a light car, with the engine right over the drive wheels. Took to snow like it was an SUV. I've since replaced the prelude with the LS430, and snow is a problem. I live in the southeast too, so luckily it isn't a concern for that long each year.
The summer tires it comes with make the situation worse. When it comes time to replace them, I'll look for some that are better in cold weather.
Sean
In the big cities like New York and Boston, there might still be a few fully loaded ultra LS430 in the showrooms with extras like extra wood, XM radio, and gold packages. You might see very motivated dealers wanting to push these models to make room for the 2004's. As the 2004 has a lot of these expensive items included.
Has anyone had experience with buying the vehicle from a dealer away from their hometown dealer? Any issues I need to be aware of since I will be taking the vehicle into my hometown dealer for service? I assume the hometown dealer will provide complimentary washes like the Mercedes dealer does. How long does the introduction to the vehicle take? Does a technician "customize" the electronics at time of delivery? Should I ask to obtain the owners manual from the selling dealer if they are remotely located from me? Not that we're not all compulsive perfectionists...
Ah -- but the upcoming GS looks like its going to be a big winner too so I'd give that a look as well when it debuts. But as long as two vehicles are needed the LS and LX are second to none as far as I'm concerned.
I had been sharing my experience here over the last 3+ months on my LS430 purchase, and my eventual transaction with a New Jersey dealer. I lived some 100+ miles away in New York city. The price I got through them was better than anyone within the 3 states around here. They were very aggressive with closing the deal, but were polite and respectful of my time.
They also arranged for my return of my leased 2001 S500 on the day I took delivery of the LS430. Since I was in a hurry to drive back home (it was a horrid rainy day that day 7/10), the prep mgr only had time to show me the basics on the NAV, like setting my "home address". This setting got me home with no problems.
3 days later, I found a scratch on my back seat, and at first I thought any Lexus dealers would fix it, as I believed it was a manufacturer defect. The closest Lexus service center disagreed, after giving me a New york state inspection and a free wash, they advise that I go back to Ray Catena to get the scratch fix. They feel that R.C. must have damaged the seat during the prep with a screwdriver; or something.
My salesman immediately had a service rep scheduled the earliest appointment at my convenience, and within a week, the scratch was hidden by a leather specialist. The only ill effects is that I could see where it was, my wife can't unless pointed to. The day of the service had wonderful weather, so the 200 miles drive was fantastic in the new air suspension. The ML was wonderful too, although business radio was playing during trading hours.
Since I know not where you lived or what the dealerships are like in your area. I cannot say if this will be the norm, but I had, so far, excellent experience with my out of state Lexus purchase.
The reply was only partially correct.
Aniline actually refers to the dyeing process.
The leather is soaked in drums and the dye goes all the way through it.
Because of this process only the BEST and clearest hides are used.
Which may explain why it is softer.
In most cars only the top of the leather is pigmented(not dyed). It is often embossed to make it look more regular and to hide flaws in the hide.
Did you guys know that all of the leather in today's cars are either clearcoated or scotchguarded?
http://www.irvingtanning.com/leather_glossary.htm
Good to see that Lexus is going the extra mile to reach this level of quality.
The leather is softer both because of the higher grade used and also because the paint coating used in non-aniline leather is slightly stiff.
The reason the leather in the ecru ultra-lux isn't aniline is because it isn't possible to stain something white that is dark (that would be bleaching, not staining). So, they use a pigmented leather paint instead. Both of them get the clear coat afterwards regardless. That's why it is SEMI-aniline instead of a true aniline, which wouldn't have a coating at all and would therefore be very susceptable to dirt, discoloration, and other stains. True aniline leather would not hold up well in a car.
Lots more information available about all of this from high-end furniture companies that use all these types of leather in their products.
Sean
The pix of the building where that 2004 LS is photographed is also pretty impressive.
My 5 yr old son is learning how to open the frig in the back; helping himself to bottle water and soda. I have not taught him how to change the stereo, but I am sure that's coming. If there were as much leg room in the back as my S500; the wife might join him, as the backseats are really comfortable.
Planning a long trip down to D.C. this Labor Day. Will probably drive further to VA and have dinner at The Inn at Little Washington.
Think I'll put about 800-900 miles all together.
I was very close to an S500 in 2001 (after I quickly dismissed the S430 - just lacking in power for that kind of money) but when I got back in and drove the LS430 back then I just felt it was the better car. The S500 was a great car but the LS just hit all my important desires in a car more precisely. Plus I had no doubt it would give me 3 years of perfect driving and reliability. I had very serious doubts about the MB and seeing the multitude of reliability issues posted on the S-class board over the past few years bore that out. I also knew the first problem I would have would make me wish I had taken the Lexus. So I eliminated all chances of it happening. But take the reliabiulity out of the equation and I think the two cars are real close but I prefer the Lexus for the better ride, quieter interior and better interior, I prefer the MB styling but I also love the LS styling. Naturally its nice to pocket the cash you save as well. The three poinrted star is meaningless to me but there is no doubt in my mind that MB makes great cars.
On your trip - watch your speed in Maryland particularly near DC where it drops to a 55mph limit. You should be fine in all other areas. Here in NJ we are getting local police all over the place on county roads but the Turnpike and Parkway are business as usual.
A hot looking car.
I'm sure many of you will get this packet in a few days if not today.
Now I wish they would send me a 2004 LX preview.
In the "soft" comparisons; the LS430 has:
1) Better materials, although my sensitive hearing has discovered minor plastic noise from the driver door.
2) Better brakes. City driving is wonderful, as the car stops smoothly without any jerkiness. Even my S500 was never as smooth.
3) Better at sharp turns; especially during highway exits. The S500 felt rear heavy, and my body is tossed a lot more during lateral accelerations. Once I drive the LS430 at 80+ speeds, I can confirm this finding.
4) Easy to park. The parking system is much better than the S500.
5) Less Wind noise up to 80mph
6) Easier to tailgate. (no, I don;t do this!) The car is higher than the S500, so one can see ahead better.
7) More luggage space
8) MUCH MUCH MUCH better stereo. This really should be #1 or #2 on this list
9) MUCH MUCH better NAV. The S500 soes not even allow exact addresses to be entered. 1865 Broadway has to be entered as just BWay on the S500. I also get bad info on the S500.
10) Looks like the old S500 from late 90's, which I like.
The S500 is better in:
1) Sportier look. Sexier and lower to the ground. But too long, and feels like a boat at times.
2) Accelerations and 40-70mph highway speeds.
3) Lighter steering. My cup of tea.
4) More room in the back.
5) Easier to reach Mercedes Tele-Aid service. Almost instant connection, while I waited and waited for Lexus link.
6) Better cup holders. My Starbucks drips onto a plastic tray, while the fine wood on the LS430 gets stained.
More to follow after my long trip ....
Thanks in advance for your response.
By the way the 18" wheels are an option but they are mated with the sport suspension. I wonder how Lexus is handling this option. The old Euro suspension was separate from the ultra so if you go with an ultra do you miss out on 18" wheel potential?
Some great pix of a sportclad LS on the site syswei referenced. The guy who posted took a lot of pictures of a Celsior in Japan which comes available with TV and DVD options as well. I wonder if they are doing a DVD option here.
Seeing as I have had a few more problems with this car, it would seem as though the computer would indicate a malfunction instead of me having to guess there is something wrong. Tony
Lexus link - the announcement has never bothered me at all. Actually I find it re-assuring and have even called them after subscription renewal to make sure it was working. But in the RX 330 loaner I had - the link hardware on the windshield was installed but none of the buttons were there and the antenna was missing. Clearly the dealer must have a way of easily finalizing the link installation after some sort of factory preset. Thus they must also have an easy way of disconnecting it.
The minor noise inside door and elbow rest will be examined too.
Looking forward to another 220 miles of sonic driving pleasure....
9/15, ah! Back to school time for the kids....
BTW, thanks for the speed limit heads-up. I'll be using the Passport for my drive to D.C. In 25 years of driving, my only speeding ticket was in a Lexus, back in 1997. I hope to not make that mistake again.
I just cannot get used to this key after using the key fob on the S500 since 2001.
And I am delighted that you are enjoying the car and the ML.
Yes! So far, only minor issues with new car. Great otherwise. And that ML, as you told me!!
This will be the second time to the Inn for me and my wife. The 1st was almost 10 years ago. Maybe everything has changed since. I agree, Daniel does not have great service and the place is too too small. Have you tried Nobu? A great place on Friday nights to eat and bump into celebrities.
b4z:
When I noted "key fob",I meant a key device with no metal key. Although the Lexus key can open the door remotely, there is still this metal key that can scratch the doors during egress and ingress. The new 2004 fob and previous Mercedes devices are small and no dangerous edges.
The Tahoes and Suburbans were also having probs with the right rear window.
Since the Tahoe and Sub are identical to the pickups, your's was not immune. I guess they got you for both the regulator and motor.
I have become a big fan of salvage yards when it comes to electrical components. Motors can be bought for less than $100.
This is an option for the Lexus owners now that they have some age on them and the parts are very expensive.
Believe me, I know. I've got an older 1990 LS400, and despite its age, is extremely reliable. Every so often, though, something goes out and it is invariably 1000-1200 to get it replaced. Around $800-1000 for the part, and the rest labor to put it in. They are great cars, but they are not inexpensive to repair.
The $1850 for the platinum warrenty sounds reasonable to me. I'll be purchasing that within the next year (I think they give you two years to purchase it). I'm glad the price was posted so I know what to shoot for. The price, as with everything from a car dealership, is negotiable. Doesn't matter which dealership you buy it from, either, so it is possible to call around and play the dealers off each other. If I were offered it for $1850, I'd probably skip the games and just buy it.
Sean