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Comments
I have over 130K on my 11 year old '90 LS 400.
Never had any AC, mirror, starter, power steering, or oxygen sensor problems. Changed the timing belt for the fist time at 120K whether it needed it or not. It has been a perfect car. Just had the brakes checked and the original rear pads are still good.
My experience is that 100K is still young. I think the '90 is a prettier and cleaner looking design than the subsequent upgrades.
My wife has a '98 LS 400 with navigator. The navigation has spoiled me, so with hurtful heart I have my order in for a gold LS 430 Ultra. I hope I enjoy it as much.
I did not state that I don't take care of my car.
In fact, I am the opposite. Preventive maintaince is my goal. Brakes pads prior to them running thin, oil changes 3-4K, hoses replacements, belts and the list goes on. The car is fairly reliable. The LS400 is a top notch car.
It actually feels very solid still, rides nice and
I get compliments all the time. That said :
the DESIGN and part cost for the car is not porportinate. Especially things like LCD displays as stated in earlier posts.
Reliability and design are 2 diff. things. It can be designed wrong, but still be reilable.
My starter is still working fine and so's the AC.
The starter goes at about 200K.
The fact that the starter is UNDER the intake manifold is questionable. I, as a ME, cannot see benefit from this location. It invites a host of problems that can occur from the removal of a very complex assembly, the intake with all the EFI components, etc. At least what Marsha7 says about the Chrysler is that the Y pipe is just a Y pipe, you'd be hard press reinstall it wrong.
I have seen the arguments that it's a expensive luxury car and so goes the cost. NO , the initial goal of LEXUS was to provide AFFORDABLE luxury cars, I assume that should include the maintence portion as well.
LEXUS is not practicing what they preach.
The LS400 sales have been dwindling since it's introduction, to almost 40% or so.
As the COST skyrockets, the sales will continus to be lack luster. The intro of the LS430 is welcome. But it has yet to "technically" pull FAR away the likes of new RL and Q45. 60-68K for a Japanese car ? That's like paying 32K for a VW Passat.
LEXUS service is top notch and part of that is factor into the cost. But other companies have proven customer service does not have to constitute high costs.
LEXUS is doing something many Co.'s do to make up profit, make up profit from your captive consumer who already own's your product.
What does it matter what country a car comes from? If Mother Russia or Austrailia can make a car that is as good if not better that its competitors, at a cheaper price, I'll buy it.
Passat at the top of the line is 32K, but
they should be closer to Maxima's or Accord EX V6. Out of the marketing scope for that kinda car. I'd expect to pay 26K or so. MAX.
Now LEXUS 34K at 1990 vs LEXUS ~65K 2000
Double the price.
Accords have risen about ~50% in that time.
See the diference.
As to the 34K cost of the 90 LS400, that did not include many features that you get for 65K in the 2000 model. Add those features and you would have increaced the price of the 90 by at least 10K. (My 90 with TRACK, CD, Sun Roof, Heated seats, and Memory Adjustments came to better than $40K plus an addional 1.4K for the cell phone. So maybe 65K is not too far off base, especially when you throw in inflation.
True #67 , 41.5K vs 68K. I didn't take inflation into account but the high tech electronics are supposed to drive down pricing. Old expensive technology is standard fare now.
Look at CDs for example, you could buy a decent CD player now for much less than in 1990, yet I suspect most dealer charges $5-$700 still for that option now vs let's say 800 then ? What their cost to produce the item,which they proabably OEM , is not inline with what we are charged.
Cell phones and IC Chips are a good example of price/performance value.
A car is much more sophisticated of course and I don't see prices dropping. But mfg tooling and techniques cannot change that much, thus production cost should be lower. as it should reflect in the overall cost of the car.
As to service and parts, tooling justification for early 1990's parts have all been written off and it's pure gravey for LEXUS and all car maker.
Also, chastizing Lexus for raising the price of a LS400 more than Honda raised the price for an Accord is simply idiotic, they are two very different cars in two very different price classes.
-Stephen 98LS
You are comparing a stripped 90 LS, to a loaded 01 LS.
Yes they are in different price classes .
Just because they are in different classes DOES NOT mean they the pricing margins cannot be in-line with other compaines.
The LS has moved more upscale, yes, but better does not mean it HAS TO be more expensive.
I do take the point that LEXUS has moved more models to take up the niche left whne the LS moved up, but you only have to look at the sales for the GS has also been dropping off. Only the ES300 sales is climbing , and that's nothing more than a HIGH end Camry, same TOYOTA in-line 6 the last time I looked. I might be out of date on that one.
So if you like that one, then yes they did fill the low end niche with a very nice model 35K or so ? The dealer situation you described is related to their sales, LEXUS is not expanding enough, with only 1 MILLION cars in 10 years.
Many people don't want them to expand and that's the exclusive club. Like it or not, all corporations/divisons want to have deep pockets like GM and Ford and they would sell their mothers to be in that position.
But I believe that to remain true to LEXUS's initial ideals , they have to bring in line ALL their models.
I just wanted to know how common and at what mileage about do people have "eventual" LCD problems with their radio/air conditioning displays?
I'm planning on purchasing GS300 graphite wheels on the car. Has anyone gone plus sizes on the car? If so how big, what kind or rim/tire and how is it?
I may also install aftermarket shocks and springs, lowering the car 1 1/2 - 2 inches using Blistein shocks and some springs. Any reccomendations? Comments?
Last does anyone know of any sites/stores that sell aftermarket import parts for the LS? I'm really looking for clear front signal markers which I think can be only ordered from Japan?? I'm trying to increase mods on a budget which seems to be impossible with the LS. I'm forgoing the obvious 9K turbo install a shop suggested.
Lexus was a wake up call to all the luxo-car co's.
Though they haven't totally join the ranks in terms of pricing, they are headed that way.
I think the one that remained true to initial corporate ideals is probably ACURA. 3 cars + the NSX fill a good line up with a reasonable price range. Although the low end Integra, priced correctly, needs a redesign badly.
The RL is a good car, not in the leauge of the LS400 or 430 but ideally a good luxo crusier.
I await the intro of the new RL.
Infiniti anyone ?
As for the S Class, enigmaone is 100% right. The interior plastics feel cheaper than those on my Explorer, and sitiing in the car felt like a step down from my LS400. If I were to leave Lexus it would be to Audi if anyone.
I wonder where did all the space go due to the increase of the height of the car (making it uglier in the process) ? More padding for safety, maybe?
In another week, I want to check it out too.
Also, what is the luxury tax this year? Does it reduce in 2001?
Augusta, GA
HEY--what lease time to you guys suggest in view of the table given of residuals in the ls430 posts?.
I wouldn't expect any dealer to even discount the LS430 by a considerable margin. YOu are going to pay at or near full MSRP for a LS430.
JustDeb
When I bought my 1998 LS400 from my dealer I negotiated dealer cost + 4.8%. There seems to me to be plenty of wiggle room for a fair deal. Maybe not during the months of October to December, but once the flow of LS430's start they will work the deal. It's hard to pass on a customer who will write a check. But we will see. I am not desperate to trade or buy. And, who knows, I may find some other car that I would rather have. However, it is hard to find anything that compares to the quality and customer service I get from Lexus. It is a pleasure to own the one I have. The only reason I am considering trading is because my LS400 is black. To keep it looking good I have guys come over and wax it every weekend. I hate to drive it if it's raining because I know it's going to look bad. I just hate to be a hostage to my car.
Since you're not desperate to trade or buy, just wait until the car has been on the market for at least 1 year. Believe me, they'll start dealing. And the deal will only get better the longer you wait. Time is on your side, my friend.
I was just at my local dealer today and the sales guy told me they're still "at window" on the IS300 since it's only benn out for a few months.
I also own a black luxury sedan. I don't know what kind of wax your guys are using but if they have to apply it every week I can almost guarantee it's not a very good wax. I use Zymol's Estate glazes. Man, we're talking about a blazing, showroom shine that will last for months due to the high grade carnauba (50-60%) that Zymol uses for these waxes. I've receved many compliments from strangers at gas stations, parking lots, etc.
Normally, these waxes go for anywhere from $475 to $800 for an 8 ounce container. They have a smapler kit for $190 which contains 3 samples - 4ounces each of their top Estate glazes. Chack it out on http://www.zymol.com
Sorry for the typos in that last post. I typed it quickly. Later.
Consider Zaino prof. wax system; you can find more infor. in Edmunds search for "zaino", or www.zainobros.com, good luck Swiftm
I'd have to agree with swiftm that Zaino is unbelievable stuff.
My Lexus dealer even asked about it when he saw my 4 year old ES the other day. Couldn't believe it still looked "showroom".
Try the Zaino. Reasonably priced. Enjoy!
Zaino, I agree as well GREAT stuff.
The television program, MOTORWEEK which airs on PBS will be reviewing the LS430 this saturday(10/14). It airs at 4:00PM on PBS(for the new york area) check local listings for other areas.
It will show the LS430 in action. Dont miss it.
If anyone does not catch it, they can purchase the video for that week, at http://www.pbs.org, after the show airs.
Unless you HAVE to be the first in your neighboorhood to own an LS430, it probably pays to wait for 3 to 6 months. That's what I plan on doing.
Fred
I've seen it all, man! This is just a car you guys...albeit a very exceptional one.
color choice options:
http://www.lexus-europe.com/g/g01_05.html