Volvo S60

rrrl · May 2003

I just get a quote from dealer, S60 AWD with premium and sport package, $30,744, but it is a 03 model. Sounds a good deal? I am in Chicago.

qbrozen · May 2003

only $400 more than the price on carsdirect.com, so that's pretty good.

jbr99 · May 2003

Can anyone share the price they paid for their S60R. Also how many are being imported. I just got what I think is a real snow job from a dealer who is trying to sell an S60R for $5,000 over sticker. Any info would be appreciated
Thanks

peglegger · May 2003

Well, this might not be fair. My understanding is that 4000 are coming stateside, is that right? I'm paying MSRP minus Destination Charge, but I'm getting mine in Sweden, so that's probably not what you're looking for. $5K over MSRP seems like a ripoff, but who knows?

qbrozen · May 2003

where in NY are you?

If in or near the city, it wouldn't be a big drive for you to go to Princeton Volvo here in Jersey. Call first, of course. I didn't talk to them about the s60R, but I deal with them often for service and bought my T5 there. Very nice people and no BS. Best dealership I've every dealt with, no matter the manufacturer. Anyway, if you aren't far, give them a call.

volvomax · May 2003

The number is closer to 3000 sedans and 300-500 wagons.
This works out to an average of 9 cars per dealer for the entire model year.
With numbers like that MSRP is the price, even on Overseas Delivery.
Except with Overseas Delivery you save the $685 destination charge and get 2 free airline tickets.
Doubtless some dealers will try to get over sticker, just find someone who will take sticker and place an order.

qbrozen · May 2003

I'm sure that's all he wants to do. Over sticker is ridiculous. I would never do that for any car, no matter how much I wanted it.

by the way, just saw a test drive of the R on the speed channel. Not really any new info. They pretty much said it was a decent deal for the performance/luxury level. I find it odd that they compare it to the smaller 3-series, though. Said it was closer to M3 performance with 330 prices.

jbr99 · May 2003

I'm not in NY any more my profile is old I'm now in Santa Fe NM. I definitely won't pay over sticker but there aren't many options out here- only two dealer in the whole state. Probably will just try to order one elsewhere.
I've read 7,000 are being built total with 4800(sedans and wagons combined) coming to the US.

volvomax · May 2003

The actual number is alot lower than that.

I'm right next door to you in AZ, email me if you'd like some help.

hclll · May 2003

I quoted for the 2003. I liked the red exterior and tan interior, but it seems very hard to find.

One dealer offered me a blue 2.4T with premium, sport and climate package for 28500,

Another dealer assured me that he can find a red 2.4T with premium, but charge for 29200.

WHat do you guys think about those price? SHould I pay more for the color choice?

avolvofan · May 2003

It is up to you whether you like the blue or the red - you will have to live with the color choice. If blue would make you nauseous each time you saw it, I would definitely go with the red. Saving $700 is not worth having to live with a color choice you really did not want to make. (Each time you drive the car, you will be reminded of the decision....)

beer47 · May 2003

After I sat in the s60 and adjusted the driver seat, I got out and looked in the back to see if there was sufficient room for someone to sit behind me. No way! What's the point of a 4 door if the backseat is useless. My car needs to at least sit 4 comfortably for business. No way in an S60. S80 maybe, or v70, or a Saab 9-5, or a Tahoe! I guess it's hard to get everything you want for a price you want to pay!

dmarcus48 · May 2003

You're right about the rear legroom, I'm 6'5" and my wife is 5', with the front seat adjusted for me, my wife couldn't fit behind me! I found up with the S80 for that reason, when I was shopping the price difference was around $25 per month on a lease. The V70 is going to be the same as the S60, its just the wagon version of the same car, same interior.

Dave

beer47 · May 2003

Perhaps you're right about the v70 having the same room in the back as the s60. Maybe the length of the wagon is throwing me off some. I'll have to check further. Thanks for the tip.

volvomax · May 2003

V70 5 inches longer, has 2 inches more rear leg room
S80 almost 3 inches more

dmarcus48 · May 2003

Sorry, I thought they were the same, I bow to volvomax. Actually that's good news I like the way the wagon looks.

hclll · May 2003

I was offered a lease on a 2004 2.5T with Prem, Sport, and Touring. $2600 out of pocket and $397/month including tax for 42 months.

does this sound like a deal?

qbrozen · May 2003

What is the buyout in the end??

Sorry, but that's the only way I know how to judge a lease. I figure its a $30K car with all the incentives being thrown around these days, you're talking about a bit under $20K in down payment plus monthlies. So if the buyout is $12K or less, it sounds ok to me. But that's just my unprofessional opinion.

hclll · May 2003

IT sounds a little too high. can I do better by negotiantion or it is the price it is sold at now?

qbrozen · May 2003

there is always room for negotiation (unless, of course, you already signed the papers). When it comes to a lease, you really have to watch those numbers. Look at what they are putting down as the purchase price. Check the lease rate, total of payments, etc.

Hmmmmm.... I'm looking for those incentives again.... did they expire? Now I'm not seeing it. Neither Edmunds nor carsdirect list them anymore.

OK. So I guess I spoke too soon. I also now realize I was forgetting tax. You said that was included in the $397. So... let's see... a good purchase price would be around $32,500 (that's $500 over invoice). Add in taxes, that brings the total to about $34,500. So, figure with fees, tags, etc. You should be in and around $35K out the door. You are paying a little under $20K on it and leaving an $18K buyout. All in all, its not that bad now that I look at all the numbers (and take away the incentive I thought was there). $3K is still a little high in the financing area with rates these days, but they probably are figuring more like a $35,500 to $36K total price and charging $1.5 to $2K in financing. that would seem about right to me. Again, this is my unprofessional opinion and done completely without any kind of financing calculator or whatever. I think there is a little wiggle room still, but the only way to determine that is to shop that number around.

keithdenalixl · June 2003

I picked up a 2.4M two weeks ago and have some questions I can't seem to find answers to. Here goes:

1) What is the redline of the engine. The tach appears to indicate 6,000 rpms for a warning zone and 7,000 rpms for a redline. Is it 7,000?

2) Will stock 16" or 17" wheels from S60T5's fit on the car?

3) There are no speakers in the rear deck, is it easy to add them?

4) Is there a driving light kit to install in the cutouts in the front ( as in the T5)?

Thanks!

qbrozen · June 2003

1) was trying to look this up for you, but the volvo owner's circle online seems to be having problems today and I can't get in. If you sign up there yourself, you can view all the manuals for your car. I'm sure it has to be in there somewhere.

2) dunno. They do have different rotors so it is very possible the bolt pattern is different. But might not be.

3) depends what you consider easy. Also depends if the stereo can take on another set of speakers. If its a 4-speaker stereo and you have 2 fronts and 2 rears already, then there is no place to hook up a 3rd set. If you want to disconnect the rear door speakers and put in a set on the rear deck, then you just need to reroute the wires. You could also replace the entire system. Like I said, depends on your definition of easy.

4) You can get the fog lights like you see on the T5 right from the dealer or at a volvo parts dealer online.

sorry I couldn't be more help. Guess I really only answered the last question. But you can get the first if you sign up on the owner's circle (I believe). And you'll need more info. on your stereo to determine the answer to question 3. You'll also just need to compare bolt patterns and possibly wheel offset to determine if the other wheels will fit. A service rep would probably be able to tell you off the top of his/her head.

volvomax · June 2003

Yes the T5 wheels will fit the 2.4
6500-6800 rpm is about all the motor will do.

Never tried to add speakers, but given the complexity of the Volvo electrical system I can't imagine that it would be easy.

Fog lights are available, and can be installed after the fact.

keithdenalixl · June 2003

Thanks so much for your responses. I really want to change the wheels/tires, but want to retain a stock look. That's why I want to find some larger Volvo wheels. With respect to the redline of the engine. I still think the redline is 7,000 rpms - I hit approximately 7,000 rpms tonight, as I was shifting, it felt like the rev limiter was kicking in. However, I don't even know if the car has a rev limiter. By the way, has the 2.4M been tested by any auto magazines? I would like to see if any 0-60 runs were timed. I've driven the 2.5T auto (of course) and did not find it appreciably faster than the 2.4M. I think the stick minimizes driveline losses. Maybe I'm biased.

qbrozen · June 2003

Most automatics sap the engine and give slower times. I think volvo's automatic tends to do it less so than many other manufacturers, but it still does it.

Hey, volvomax, I need some help with a parts issue. I spotted some rotors for my '98 T5 on Ebay and thought it might be a chance to get them cheap. Problem is that I can't figure out what fits my car. Volvo website states all S70s came with the same sized rotors (11" front and 11.5" rear). The seller (import parts authority is the name of the business) says that the S70s with 16" wheels had different rotors than those with 15s. IPD does not differentiate their rotors as being different sizes (only sells 280mm stock replacements), but they do state in their upgraded rotor listings (302mm) that "some volvos came with these larger rotors from the factory." But they don't say which.

So, what the heck do I have on my car?? I could, of course, take the wheel off and measure, but then I gotta put it back on, order the parts, then take it all apart again when they come.

volvomax · June 2003

As far as I'm aware all S70's had the same size rotors.
The S60 T5 has bigger rotors than the regular S60's, and the XC90 and S60R have the biggest rotors Volvo offers.
You should be fine with the ebay rotors.

qbrozen · June 2003

i should have put that question on the S70 board. These volvo boards see so little action that I forget there is even more than one.

i'll follow up on this over there. thanks.

cmnott · June 2003

The redline on your vehicle is the SOLID red line. The dotted line is like a warning that you are getting close. If the solid line is 7000, then you are safe up to that point.

I have seen 0-60 in 8.7 if that helps.

keithdenalixl · June 2003

Hey Cmnott,

Thanks for the response. If you can remember where you saw 8.7 sec, please let me know.

rkpatel · June 2003

I just priced out the 2003 and 2004 S60s using Edmunds and there is a fairly substantial price difference! Both with Premium, Audio, DTSC, and Touring - the 2003: 34,547 (plus the 4500 marketing support - which might knock it down to 30k); 2004: 39,936. To pay a 10k premium for 10hp and a 2004 plate seems a bit excessive.

Has anyone out there compared the A4 1.8T Quattro or the 3.0 Quattro to the S60 AWD? Impressions?

Thanks.

avolvofan · June 2003

I wonder if the price difference will hold up. 2004 will be a very long model year.

ndmd · June 2003

WOW!!! I just test drove the R. There was one on the lot at Cherry Hill Volvo, NJ. I guess someone did not want their order. It was titanium grey metallic, blue-black leather, premium package, touring package, 18in wheels, all for 43,000+. This car is incredible. Slight turbo lag and then pin you to your seat acceleration. Big difference among suspension sttings... from smooth luxury to tight advanced. The car is quiet, powerful and comfortable. The seats are the most comfortable I have ever felt. Only slight dislike is a mildly tight back seat...but who cares. Thsi car rocks. Lease deal was $5000 down, 12K miles for $656/month. I wish I did not have 15 months left on my current lease or it would be a no-brainer.

ptrekker · June 2003

>>Thsi car rocks. Lease deal was $5000 down, 12K miles for $656/month.

Sure. For that price I'll buy 2.

qbrozen · June 2003

656?? OUch. How long was that for? Even for 36 months, that left, what? A $12K-$14K buyout? They must not be anticipating strong resale on that. That seems excessive. Was that real numbers or was that the salesperson's first shot at you?

I can see, on one hand, only having the standard S60 numbers to go on, but, on the other hand, even a regular S60 has better than $14K resale after 3 years/36K miles. Hell, if I could find an '01 T5 with 36K miles for $14K, I'd be all over it!

ndmd · June 2003

That was off the cuff numbers. We were standing in the lot. I did no negotiating or even looking at how that was calculated.

thenumberwiz1 · June 2003

Based on those numbers, assuming the $656 includes tax, you are looking at a payment of approx $619 for 36 months with $5000 at signing. Assume $3500 is toward the gross capital cost (and the rest is for security, bank fee 1st payment) and you are looking at a residual of approx $21,000 or 49%. This would assume a cost of capital (interest rate) of 3.9% built into the lease.

Not exactly a $12-$14,000 residual but still is a heck of alot of depreciation. I am getting quotes on the 2.5T with residuals in the $19,000 range after 3 years.

All this is just the reality of the numbers but I am sure it is still an awesome machine, probably just not a great investment.

qbrozen · June 2003

Going by those numbers, it seems a bit more in line with the current depreciation of S60s, though.

My math is a bit simpler. I just took $43K, added in taxes and tags, then subtracted the payments and added a bit for finance. It has gotten me in the ballpark on past leases, but, then again, we're talking about a couple of $18K-$21K cars. But now that I run that scenario again, I do come up with $17K and change without figuring in for interest. So I don't know what I did with the numbers before.

In any case, I do think the R will hold its value better than the other S60s, but not by a whole lot. I'd say anyone who leases one might do well to buy it out in the end and resell it. Only time will tell.

Anyway, you can never look to a car as an investment. Its a depreciating asset.
Well, ok, you could hope an antique will increase in value, but its still not guaranteed. Not to mention all the money for upkeep... but that's a different thread altogether.

wwheeler · June 2003

Can anyone give me an idea how many miles can be expected from the Pirelli P6 tires that come with the Sport Package?

ndmd · June 2003

I do not know if htey are the same as the Pirellis on the S60R, but those tires state they will not last 20K. Great grip, no long life.

avolvofan · June 2003

There have also been posts (on this forum) regarding sidewall failures. You might consider checking the tires before each trip along with the air pressure, both of which are normal precautions.

sailoverfuel · June 2003

Sounds execive to me....actually sounds like a deale salesman in our forum...selling!

43K minus the 5K equalss 37K @ 12k miles per year makes no sense for $656. I bet NMD left the Tax out as a nice surprise. You may be able to get a BMW nice 5 series for that lease payment amount...I'm not sure.

Then again...you dont work at the BMW dealer...huh!~

qbrozen · June 2003

too bad this will blow the Bimmer away, huh?

ndmd · June 2003

I'm not a dealer. If you look at the user name you may figure it out that I'm a physician. Anyway, I stated, up front, that those were numbers thrown out quickly by the salesman whil we were standing in the lot. I never saw any numbers.

jcmoya · June 2003

I just got a New Black 2003 Volvo S60 2.4 M 4dr Sedan for $19,735. Is this a good deal?

The only thing I did not like of the transaction was the Volvo's policy of no inmediate delivery due to mandatory inspection (Quality Control or something like that) Blah Blah blah. I don't know about you guys, but I think that most people would like to take their new machine home the same day, or not? For me was very very very dessapointing to know that I have to wait a couple of more days to get my car. Is this a Volvo new Policy / practice? Or there is something "fishy" and thats why I am getting such a huge discount?

qbrozen · June 2003

so is this a completely base model? no options at all? That's $6K below invoice! I guess I'd be suspicious, knowing me. Edmunds TMV is $22K. But maybe their info. isn't updated. Could be lots of dealer money on this to get rid of it.

jcmoya · June 2003

Here in Sactown the 2 Volvo dealers had huge discounts prices for 3 weeks (ended last week) for their 03 Models. I guess it was national. $6K under the MRSP. But I got another $1.3K due to a Dealer Internet Manager mistake. Well..thats what they are saying.

I told the guy (via email) that my budget was only $21.5K for everything (Car, tax and registration). This is what I wrote:

"Thanks, but I think I am a little bit short on cash. I just have $21,500 to cover everything. I had $2K more this morning but an unexpected home expense was waiting for me. There is some serious house remodeling going on in my house. And I don't want to borrow more $$$.
Thanks again, maybe another day."

And he replied with this email:

"JC,
I spoke with our Volvo manager and we can do your $21,500 out the door how soon can you get down here to complete this deal, please call me at 421-3400 ask for me ... my name is Toby I will be in till 7 pm.Or email me your phone #.

         Thank you,
   Fleet/internet Manager"

The problem (apparently my luck) was that the Dealer manager misunderstood everything and he thought that I was asking $21.5K for the car. But because the Fleet/internet Manager's E mail, they had to Honor the offer.

I don't know! Everyone at the dealer was surprised about the deal. In matter of fact, 3 salesmen and the warranty guy told me that not even they could get that discount. A well orchestrated act? I don't know, but I am suspicious.

What about the 2 days I have to wait to get my car due to the quality inspection blah blah blah? Is that a Volvo practice for NEW cars sales?

avolvofan · June 2003

If the car had never been PDI'd (Pre-Delivery Inspection), then they would want to do it. However, two days is a bit much. The whole process can be completed in about 2 to 4 hours. If you closed your deal in the afternoon, then picking the car up the next day would be reasonable. Did you get any dealer-added options? Maybe they were in such a state of shock over the mistake in pricing that the owner wanted to check with his attorney to see if he could get out of the deal.

chef228 · June 2003

I went into my dealer today to look into a 2004 S60 AWD. He had a 2003 S60 T5 loaded with every option/package including navigation (which I don't really want) and on call. List was $42,800, mine for $35,400. Good deal?

lmacmil · June 2003

Volvo has a $4000 dealer incentive until 6/30 on most 2003 models. I don't think you'll get a better deal.

rqc · June 2003

Has anyone driven a S60 R automatic? If driven a S60 R manual but have to get an automatic. I'm concerned about how much impact the automatic will have because the torque on the automatic is lower. I've never owned a Volvo, so I don't know how their automatics perform. Also, does it have a good sport shift feature? I'd be interested in hearing about acceleration and response times.

The "R" was very impressive. I'm shopping between the R, BMW 330i, Infiniti G35 sedan, and the Mercedes C320 Sport. Man, it's very close. The "R" had a little bit too much front-drive feeling to me in regular driving, but otherwise it was great. Turning diameter was enormous (42'!), another problem because our area requires a lot of U turns.

I can't tell you which car is best right not because each has so many good points! The "R" manual was nice, gear selector was very good, brakes were awesome. Didn't get to really check out the different suspension settings as much as I would have liked. I did take it through some very demanding twisties on Sport and Advanced. Both were good runs. Can't remember how good or bad steering feel was though. Too much to take in at once! I didn't expect to be so impressed.

Volvo S60

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