Volvo S60

avolvofan · November 2003

Now all we need is for those parts to make it to this side of the pond.... Don't hold your breath.

volvomax · November 2003

The company is American.
The body kits will be available in 2004.
Some, if not all of the performance mods will be coming as well.

niv · November 2003

Thanks for your reply. I got some idea on pricing now. I will keep shop around till Thanksgiving to get better deal.
-Niv

vroomman · November 2003

Should I be concerned about purchasing the S60 R automatic ... how much performance will I lose over the manual?

Is the automatic a quick car too? will I be dissapointed after purchasing the automatic?

Would love the manual, but, my wife is not going for it ...

I want to feel confident with my purchase, and, performance is important to me ... is the S60 R automatic the best car for my $$$ ???

Please advise ...

Thx..

avolvofan · November 2003

It sounds like your decision is made for you - your wife will make your life a living hell if you go with the manual transmission. Personally, I am quite happy with my 2002 S60 AWD (with automatic transmission). Add an IPD/TME ECU chip upgrade and you are within striking distance of the S60R automatic (might even be ahead of the game).

volvomax · November 2003

Not as rewarding as the R manual.
0-60 times are the slowest of all the S60 turbos.
Go w/ an S60 AWD instead.

dbugbee · November 2003

My dealer told me there's a shortage of Haldex AWD systems, and the S60 AWD is currently low man on the totem pole, i.e., it's going to become very hard to find any. Therefore they're going to try to convert S60 AWD customers over to the S60R.

peglegger · November 2003

I have the S60R automatic. I have read about large differences in performance between the manual and auto, due to torque differences in the detuned auto tranny. To be honest, I drove both on a track and the auto didn't seem nearly as bad as I was led to believe. Driving error and clutch timing do make it even harder to hit the 0-60 advantage that the manual has.

The other factor is active driving. Some people prefer a manual because they want to drive 'actively' regardless of differences in 0-60. That's a factor you would have to resign yourself to, I guess.

I'm very pleased with the auto and love the interior (atacama) that the R offers. Also, the blue gauges, the active suspension, brembo brakes, subtle exterior changes are a big plus for me over the standard S60 AWD. just my thoughts...

davant · November 2003

Volvomax,
Regarding the automatic S60R, I'm surprised at your statement in my title that came from your post #1381. I drove several '04 S-60's; 2.5T, T5, and an automatic R. No manual R was available for comparison.

I value you your opinion but respectfully disagree. The 2.5T, although to me the most versatile and practical (no lag), is the slowest of the turbos. The automatic R was the rocket of the group; very pulse quickening, almost too much fun for a daily jaunt. The manual is probably faster yet, same as with just about any car (except the Porsche 928 that only came in auto). Simple R-math I guess, 300 HP (R) versus 247 (T5) or 208 (2.5T), right?

vroomman · November 2003

avolvofan ... is the IPD/TME ECU chip available for the S60R ???

vroomman · November 2003

peglegger ... You're happy w/ you automatic S60R??

No problems w/ speed??

How would you compare the S60R auto w/ the BMW 330xi? or the Acura TL in terms of speed and driving performance??

I know I'll lose speed off-the-line w/ the auto ... but ... how's the top-end speed???

vroomman · November 2003

Volvomax ... the auto S60R has the slowest 0-60 times out of all the S60 class???

volvomax · November 2003

S60 R M 5.4 sec
S60 T5 A 6.6 sec
S60 2.5T 6.8 sec
S60 AWD 7.1 sec
S60 R A 7.4 sec

Times are offical Volvo test times.
Once up to speed the R auto is quicker than the other Volvo turbos, except for the R M.
The geartronic tranny is limited in 1st and 2nd gears, it can't take the torque of the R engine.
Yes the auto is easier to drive, and may feel faster to those uncomfortable with a stick. The R M's clutch can take some getting used to.
Having had the cars around for 4 months now, I'm pretty used to it.
I guarantee that if I'm in a manual and your in the auto all you'll see are my tail lights.
don't know about you, but if I'm spending $41= k on a car(the auto is a $1250 option) I want all the performance.
I don't want to be embarrased by somebody in a 96 850 turbo.

golfgod2 · November 2003

Vroomman, I own an Acura TLS, have test driven the '04 TL and just last week test drove the S60R auto, so I feel I'm pretty qualilfied to give you an opinion. The S60R auto is a rocket. It felt significantly faster than my TLS or the '04 TL. To me, the 0-60 felt right around 6 seconds, if not lower. I've also driven a 330 and again, the Volvo felt faster. I don't think you'll have any regrets getting the automatic. It is near the top of my list and would be a no brainer if it weren't for the tight back seat. If that's not an issue for you, I'd get the S60RA hands down. Just blows the doors off of my TLS.

rollie · November 2003

For what it's worth, all high-pressure turbo Volvos have several factors that have to be mastered and optimized in order to get the quickest 0-60 times. Things like the adaptive tranny logic, traction/yaw control setting, turbo spool, etc. need to be optimized in order to get a decent 0-60 in the S60R automatic.

I've driven it enough to know it is definitely closer to 6 seconds than 7 if you know what you're doing. With more time I think I could give the 6 second barrier a real challenge in the automatic version. In fact, now that I think of it, I might have to ask for an extended S60R auto test drive and see if it might be fast enough for me to forego getting a stick (after I sell my T6 of course.)

I've had concerns with owning a 6-speed in Southern California traffic and have been leaning towards a M3 SMG for this reason. Maybe if the S60R auto is fast enough I'll be happy enough to buy it(I already prefer the active chassis, brakes, interior, audio system, navigation, and image over the BMW.)

Thanks.

-rollie
rdollie@att.net

vroomman · November 2003

I appreciate everyones responses ... but I'm still undecided ... am I better off w/ the BMW 330xi AWD over the S60R ??

But. what I am hearing ... is that the S60R Auto is still a rocket ... and after 2nd gear ... will move quicker than most.

And other than volvomax ... everyone has told me that i will not be dissapointed w/ the performance of th S60R.

But, volvomax does have a point about spending 41K and not getting all the performance that Volvo claims ... that's kind of lame

Is there a chip that can placed in the S60R auto for quicker times???

Can anyone help me make this decision?? it's driving me nuts

cmnott · November 2003

Drive it for pete's sake.

I have a S60 T5 and have driven an R manual. I don't care what Volvo says. 300bhp is 300bhp, torque be damned on the auto. It is still a lot of torque and it still comes at a low rpm, and it has more torque than the AWD.

the 330xi is a nice car, but it is not in the same league with the R. First of all, 3ers are everywhere, the R is exclusive. It is more comfortable, the sound system is ridiculous (menaing phenomenal) and the dynamics of this vehicle are amazing. How you could even be torn is beyond me.

The 3er will be redesigned soon so keep in mind if you do purchase the depreciation may be more than what is accustomed.

3ers are nice but overrated, IMO. When I purchased my T5, it was convincingly better than the 330i of 2002. More comfortable, much faster, a beauty, etc...the 330i shines for those who autocross. My T5 is great right up to about 8/10ths driving, after that the 330i has a clear advantage. I do have dedicated summer tires which help, but the chassis just isn't up to BMW standards. That's fine, driving 9/10ths or at the limit, where are you going to do that? How often? For those who drive to the store, malls, work, vacation, you will never use what BMW are selling.

volvomax · November 2003

No matter what you do, the R auto will never get into the 6 sec range.
the tranny computer will see to that.
With that having been said, if you like the rest of the car, go ahead and buy it.
If what you feel in the seat of your pants is more important than real #'s, buy the auto R.
I just want you to be aware of what you are getting and what you are not getting.
Me, I'll stick w/ the stick.

vroomman · November 2003

This comes from the Volvo division Leader at very reputable performance shop

Hi

We are in the process of developing a line of upgrades for the new R's. ECU upgrades, exhaust, down pipes, lowering springs and firmer anti sway bars are in the works with tentative availability this fall. Prototype testing has netted approximately 345 HP and 385 lbs / ft of torque in the manual trans car. We are still testing the auto trans models as we are concerned about increasing the torque too much. It is our understanding that the trans is already at 100% of it's rated capacity. It may be awhile before we have reliable data on the safe torque limit for this trans. I have added you to our list of R owners to be notified of any news / progress on this project.

Thanks,

--- I'm sure they can pull an additional 20-25 horsepower out of the automatic ... that'll be a 6 sec 0-60 ... no doubt

peglegger · November 2003

Yes, I am very happy with my automatic S60R. I bought it while it was still a no-cost option (now it's $1250), although that wouldn't have made a difference for me. I still would have paid for the auto.

I have 4500 miles on it so far and it's still fresh and fun to me. I'm still trying to push it in different ways and look forward to driving it whenever I can.

I think you have been given some pretty good input from the people here. If you talk to somebody that owns a 6-speed they will tell you that it is the only way to go; and if you talk to somebody with the automatic, most seem very happy with it. You have to drive both of them and go with your gut. If a half-second to full second difference is going to bother you 0 -60, then go with the stick. It bothered me when I first read about it, but then I had to bring myself back to reality. The reality is that the car puts a smile on my face, gets tons of compliments, and presses me back into my seat when I punch it. And handling is the same with either GT or MT, so why am I worried about a stat that has nothing to do with my real-world enjoyment of the car?

vroomman · November 2003

Excellent advice!! ... I think you've given me comfort in my decision ... It's time to purchase.

davant · November 2003

Congrats to all, we created a string of posts that actually say the thrill and vibes you get out of driving matter more than specs and performance times! Other boards I've seen at Edmunds and elsewhere don't make it to this point. Times matter if there's a checkered flag at the end. As long as it'll go faster depending on how hard I put my foot down, I'm happy. I couldn't have said it better myself but have to tack on my own echoes.

Driving at 8/10ths (and less) is where Volvo (the company) recognized 8/10ths of us spend 8/10ths of our time. Corny but true. The 3xx bimmers are fine automobiles no doubt but to me feel harsh, very German, bold and commanding. Call me a wimp as I'd prefer to scrape molding leaning over and be comfy, than jar fillings loose. I like the human factors engineered into the S-60 plus it offers 5 versions from commuter to enthusiast. The only trouble I have is back seat size, so I must bump up to the S-80 (buying before Nov ends). I think USA auto manufacturers could learn alot from Volvo. The Japanese entries (Acura, Lexus, Infiniti) can't compete here IMO, they do everything well on paper but feel cookie cutter-ish, not exciting to me. Luxury without style.

Volvo builds the way I would. I'll see you on the road soon behind a slash badged 'V' and won't be tempted to race or scratch my head wondering what brought you to your model choice, they're all great!

volvomax · November 2003

Vrooman enjoy your auto R.
My only concern is that you know what you are getting. It sounds like you are happy with it.
As for mods to the auto, ain't gonna happen.
The geartronic tranny simply won't take the extra power. If you blow the tranny Volvo won't warranty it.
For the 6 speed the skies the limit, witness EVOLVE's 500 hp Evil R.

vroomman · November 2003

These days ... Anything can be modified ... words 'ain't' or 'can't'are not in my vocabulary ... I'll find a way to get those numbers down to 6 ... and when I do ... you'll be the first to know volvomax ...

Take care ...

ddelise · November 2003

My car will need this service soon. I called three local Volvo dealers - and here is what I was quoted for the service.

$379
$453
$590-$625.

I did not ask specifics of what each dealership does for the service, but just wondering if these prices seem reasonable.

What have you all paid for the 30k service?

Thanks - Damon

avolvofan · November 2003

The 30K service interval is a big one. The variance in fees is probably due to what the dealers provide in the service. Presuming the same labor rates, I would imagine that the $379 quote is for only the items specified by the factory (minimum service necessary to retain warranty coverage). The $590 - $625 quote probably covers a lot of items that are highly profitable for the dealer but don't do anything for warranty coverage. Unfortunately, you are going to have to ask for specifics and then make a determination of the relative value.

cmnott · November 2003

For the usual rattling glovebox (this must be the 4th time) and the front end of my T5 all of a sudden sounds like a taxi cab, clunking around ( I imagine the sway bars need service) and I noticed a new 2.5T with a spoiler. It is $450CAD and it comes pre-painted, I must say it looks great and still discreet but it sure is a good match to a car that is difficult to wing.

What I do not like about Volvo is my dealer charges me $21 to take off the "Time for Regular Service" notice off the computer. I am also getting the cabin air filter replaced.

When I got the Volvo, I downplayed the "free service" that BMW, Audi and Jaguar offered. Must say I hate to release cash for this stuff.

Still, I am really happy with my T5. This weather (in Canada) at this time makes it run like an animal!

Just slapped on the Michelin Arctic Alpins and I cannot emphasize how great these winter tires are. Have used winter tires over the last 15 years and these are by far the quietest yet.

ddelise · November 2003

Thanks for the info. I did a quick check - the $379 is for what the factory recommends. As the car is on lease, and I don't plan on keeping it at the end of the lease, I will go for the $379 option.

Thanks Again - Damon

qbrozen · November 2003

i thought the s60s could be reset by the owner?

oh... yup, it can.

1. Put key in the ignition and turn to accessory position (I)
2. Put your trip odometer to T1 (take a look at the milage).
3. Press and HOLD the trip meter until it resets. Don't let go!
4. While continuing to hold the trip odometer, switch your key to the run position and watch for the previously displayed milage on the trip meter to return.
5. Once it returns, let go of the trip meter reset button and put the key back to the off position.

cmnott · November 2003

I should have asked you guys earlier....they told me they have to hook it up to a computer.

I may have to pursue this with my nice dealer.

Where di you get that info from so I may throw it into their faces and get my money back?

qbrozen · November 2003

i'd have to kill you.

well, ok, not really, but the post would just get deleted by the moderator anyway. I got it from a dedicated Volvo forum.

avolvofan · November 2003

The car is hooked up to a computer as part of the service; however, the act of hooking up the On Board Diagnostic connection will not in and of itself clear the message. That requires the procedure that qbrozen published.

Separately, qbrozen, if you list the generic name of the forum (e.g. just abc without the URL), I doubt if your post will get deleted. cmnott will have to do some research, but less than without the forum info. (Although there are not too many dedicated volvo forums out there....)

explorerx4 · November 2003

you're published!

rqc · November 2003

I was comparing several cars to the S60R. I was comparing the 330i instead of the 325, but these comments apply to either:
S60R advantages:
bigger trunk
fold down rear seats (optional on the BMW)
bigger back seat (neither is huge but the S60 is definitely bigger)
great seats in front and back (the Sport pkg on the BMW has nice seats)
Active Chassis (both handle great but S60R is amazing)
BMW has somewhat better steering feel and more linear power delivery. Liked the BMW's memory seat function better and the auto-down side mirrors when backing up.

Those are just some of the reasons I liked the S60R over the 330, although I would have enjoyed either.

rqc · November 2003

I have the S60R automatic and I'm very happy with the acceleration. I'd say 0-60 is about 7 seconds but it feels faster. Also, 0-60 is just one aspect. Acceleration is very good at most speed ranges (20-50, 30-70, etc.). The Sport mode works nicely and the Geartronic function works well also.

I definitely do NOT regret getting the automatic. If you what absolute maximum performance or you intend to mod the car, get the manual. But in real life 0-60 tests, I don't think there's more than 1/2 second difference between the auto and the manual.

vroomman · November 2003

Glad to hear that you're happy w/ your auto ...
I'm picking up my S60R this week ...

So ... the highway acceleration is quick??

I'm hoping that I won't be dissapointed, but, from what i've been hearing ... it seems that I won't be

I've had a Lexus IS300 for the past 3 1/2 years ... lots of fun to drive ... i'm hoping that the extra 8K i'm spending for the Volvo will be worth it.

kchilaka · November 2003

After looking at the 2004 TL and the 330i zhp. I am convinced that the Manual s60r is the performance demon of the bunch.. What I am wondering is if there is any discounting at all for the S60r models... The bmw 330i zhp model is being discounted ..and the acura tl is starting to sell below msrp (barely below msrp)... Can anyone share their prices paid/buying experiences.
thanks
ck

qbrozen · November 2003

well, i haven't bought or shopped for one, but considering they are now advertising on TV and the R has recently received a discount via the overseas delivery program, I think you should be able to get a discount through the dealer. If not, you can always do overseas delivery.

dbugbee · November 2003

Black Sapphire Metallic w/ Dark Blue (looks black) interior
6 speed manual transmission
Premium, Climate, and Touring Packages
17" wheels
$39,656 This is $800 over invoice, including a $250 advertising charge, which varies from dealer to dealer. The original deal I made with them was $500 over invoice, but that was only if I took one off their lot. They didn't have the exact configuration I wanted, so they had to search the Northeast and make a trade with another dealer. Since it costs them money to go pick up the car, and they don't get the "holdback" money from Volvo (the original dealership does), they tacked on the extra $300. As a matter of fact, they so wanted me to buy off their lot that they offered to drop the price to $200 over invoice, but if I'm paying almost $40k for a car, I'm willing to pay a few more hundred and get exactly what I want.

The dealer also told me that sales on the S60R have been disappointing. He blames it on Volvo not doing a very good job of advertising, and thus many people don't even know the car exists. He may be right. When I told the BMW salesman across the street that I was considering the 325xi and the S60R, he didn't seem to know much of anything about the S60R.

davecls · November 2003

S60R Manual
Titanium Grey w/ Sand interior
Premium Package
Climate Package
Nav system
18" Pegasus wheels

I paid $41K and change on my S60R, which was stickered at $43.2K. Fortunately, I was able to use the X-plan discount to get the price with no haggling. They aren't discounting them much here in South Fla and the saleman said that the most they have given off the sticker is 1K for people buying them without any discount plans.

vroomman · November 2003

All the waiting and debating ... It's finally in my driveway.

The automatic is quick ... the sound system is amazing and the interior puts a smile on my face.

I will recommend this car to anyone ... hats off to Volvo for creating such a dynamic vehicle at such a reasonable price.

avolvofan · November 2003

If the S60R sales numbers are in fact off from Volvo's projections, one could attribute such a circumstance to brand conflict with Jaguar (and the R version of the S-type). Brand conflict was one of the questions/issues that was raised when Ford announced the acquisition of the automobile line from Volvo.

Any comments, volvomax?

davecls · November 2003

If the sales don't reach Volvo's projection, one reason might be the lack of advertising. Until I saw an ad in Autoweek a couple of weeks ago, I had no idea the car even existed.

vroomman · November 2003

There's not one person (in my circle) that knew about the R before I purchased it.

It's just not being advertised ... however ... I did see the commercial once ... loved it!

Lexus is up 24% this year ... their advertising frequency is much greater ... same w/ BMW and Infiniti.

vroomman · November 2003

http://popularmechanics.mondosearch.com/cgi-bin/MsmGo.exe?grab_id- =5&EXTRA_ARG=&CFGNAME=MssFind%2Ecfg&host_id=42&pa- ge_id=4719360&query=volvo+concept&hiword=CONCEPTA+concept- +CONCEPTS+CONCEPTION+VOLV+volvo+VOLVOS+

volvomax · December 2003

When your only going to get 3000 cars or so your not going to set any sales records.
The R was never intended as a volume car.
Given that the average dealer will see between 10-15 cars in a year the dealer will sell an average of 1 R per month. Some dealers will do better some worse.
Volvo is commited to a limited advertising campaign for the car, but they are hoping for good reviews form the car buff mags and word of mouth from enthusiasts.
BTW, there is no conflict w/ Jaguar.
The 2 companies appeal to entirely different types of buyers.

peglegger · December 2003

Conflict w/Jaguar seems way off the mark. Maybe to some that get into the minutia, but they don't comprise sales volumes.

As to advertising, I would have to agree that Volvo might be well-served in advertising the R a little more. The ad is great and the stats really impress at that price point. Volvomax, I agree with you that the advertising $ don't justify it for a low-volume car, but where I differ is in the 'branding' aspect that the ad brings. I think that the R helps Volvo with its limited appeal of the past and the advertising would help ALL Volvo models. Just my opinion.

I have found exactly ONE person that knew what an R was and he was a total car nut that was considering it as a replacement to his current Audi TT. Otherwise, most people don't even know what the S60 is, let alone S60R. A little advertising might go a long way for the R and the other Volvo models.

tmart · December 2003

I have a '99 C70 convertible, and still get comments like " I didn't know Volvo made convertibles".

dbugbee · December 2003

Pros:
1. The car is really fast and fun to drive. 6-speed manual transmission shifts flawlessly. Brakes stop the car on a dime.
2. 4-disc CD player sounds great.
3. Love the look of the blue instrumentation.
4. This car is very unique. Have not seen another S60R on the road yet. (However, have seen a V70R.)

Cons:
1. The turning radius IS large. Mainly notice it when I'm trying to make that 90 degree turn from my driveway into my garage.
2. The seats are REALLY snug. Almost too snug. Maybe I'm just not used to Sport Seats. BTW, I'm not a real large person if that's what you're thinking: 5'11'', 180 lbs.
3. High beams could be more effective.
4. Brakes squeal a bit. They seem to do it more often when they're cold.
5. I still wish the car could have been ordered with high performance all-season tires.

But overall, I'm still happy with my choice. BTW, my dealer said I should not "baby" the car, even during the break-in period. As a matter of fact, he said it is better to drive the car hard right from the start. He gave me the same advice two years ago when I bought my 2002 V70XC. Are any other dealers giving out this same advice?

subyaudidude · December 2003

Okay, so I'm driving home from work today when my CEL light/message came on. I'm within warranty (less than a year of ownership, actually), so that doesn't worry me too much. The only "mod" I've done to the car is the addition of XM, but it's through the tape deck and not an FM modulator or direct connection, so that can't be it. It's due for an oil change (just rolled to 7600 miles), but that message already came on.

Couple of questions:
1) Is there anything it could be that wouldn't make it a warranty job?
2) Assuming it is a warranty job, will my dealership provide me with a loaner car while my car is in the shop?

TIA.

Volvo S60

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