Toyota Camry 2006 and earlier

raybear · March 2002

The new Camry has gotten a lot more available of late. Look to pay a few hundred over invoice in your area, but offer less and let the dealer tell you what he'll take.

cliffy1 · March 2002

First armtdm, its OK to disagree. I appreciate the respectful way you did it.

Next, for a "do it yourselfer", the prepaid plan is certainly not worth it. I would submit that you can not walk into a dealership and get the transmission fluid replaced for $10. Prices will vary and often you can find a coupon to save some money, but even if you only do what the maintenance book requires, you really are looking at $300 to $400 for the 30K. The 15K is less, but $150 is not out of line. Then, factor in 11 oil changes, three tire rotations and 4 years worth of roadside assistance and the price starts looking better.

There are a couple of other benefits as well. When you are done with the coupon book, Toyota sends you a complete and itemized list of all maintenance performed. Not a huge deal, but if you look to sell it at that point, such an organized list of dealer performed service should make your car more marketable. Also, each dealer that offers this package has worked out a deal with Toyota to include some additional coupons good only at their store. As an example, my store includes coupons for money off fuel injector cleaning, alignments and a $300 trade-in voucher which is good for an extra $300 if this car is traded into us.

As I said, this isn't for everybody. At the very least, I think it is a wash in terms of cost. If you use everything in it other than the trade in bonus, you will save between $300 and $500 over the next four years. If you have less expensive alternatives for service, it may not save you anything, although you would not be getting dealership service (this could be good or bad I know).

I think the best part is that it takes a lot of the hassle away of maintaining your car. Rather than getting estimates each time, you simply rip out the next coupon. Even if the money is a wash, many customers would value this aspect of the program.

tccmn1 · March 2002

Finally got our Camry back from the dealer/service tonight. Total bill for machining the head and new valve seals, etc.. was nearly $1,000 (Including $200 of materials the rest was labor). All of this covered under Toyota ExtraCare(6Yrs./100K miles) I purchased when we bought the vehicle new in '97 - thank God!! I Think I paid about $800 for the coverage at that time...so I've paid myself back and then some.

Again, I was told by the service manager that there will be a service bulletin sent out to 3.5 million Toyota owners of vehicles from 1997-2001 (Camrys, Avalons, Siennas, Highlanders 4's and 6's) all mfg. prior to August 2001. The VIN's will also determine the problem vehicles.
The symptoms are; smoking, check engine light coming on, oil levels going down. Once you spot one of the three symptoms, you are to call your local Toyota service and notify them of the issue. They will have a Toy Rep. come out and view your car and determine if it fits the 'recall' scenario. If it does, they will cover the expense. There will be a 1 year window for owners to respond or deal with this issue. After which time, their coverage is gone.
So, Toy is owning up to issues in the design of these engines....what else could they do as the sludge issue keeps mounting more and more?
Look for the mailing to appear within the next month.

bweave · March 2002

William00, my transmission is doing the same thing described in your post. Supposedly it's only the early production models that have the problem. One person in here posted that he took his Camry to the dealership and they recalibrated the onboard computer. He said that solved the problem. USA Today also had the same problem with their test drive and said that recalibrating the computer was the remedy. I just haven't had the time to get to the dealership and it's not too annoying yet.

--bweave

wain · March 2002

does anyone yet know what changed on this date?
4 cyl got different engine
but what about the 6?

william00 · March 2002

Thanks for the input. Takes a load off my mind. Buying a new car should be fun, but... What with "sludge" and salesmen (Toyota salesman told me yesterday "this is my first day on the job -- you probably know more about the car than I do." Exactly.) Let me know when you get the time to have yours recalibrated and if that is a fix. Thanks in advance. (I'm still trying to get Toyota to special order a V6SE without "pleather". Save me about $1200 and I prefer the cloth.)

I've got one more question for everyone. Does anybody have a firm time slot for the appearance of the "adjustable pedals" option (supposedly no charge)?

jj35 · March 2002

tccmn1 - What you describe as a service bulletin and recall and got covered for repair under warranty has been referred to previously as a Special Policy Adjustment for engine gel or sludge. I am wondering if your dealer is just using different (incorrect?) wording or if Toyota's position has changed. Previously, it has been pretty clear that the SPA was not a recall nor warranty coverage and Toyota said that the problem was the fault of owners not maintaining their vehicles. I would like to know if they are changing their position on this. I was able to get reimbursed for $3,300 paid for engine cleaning under the SPA - I own a Sienna that developed engine sludge at 17,000 miles one year ago. The Sienna engine is the same as the v-6 Camry.

Regarding the manufacture date, I have heard that the reason may not have to do with engine design changes but most likely was chosen because these would be vehicles still potentially covered under the 5 year powertrain warranty. The SPA does not apply to problems that occur after the end of the power train warranty.

A lot of these issues are discussed in the "engine sludge" Town Hall forum (under "Maintenance and Repair") so you may want to go there and read up on it.

sam_beaver · March 2002

I called Toyota about this a couple of months ago and the rep I spoke with said they'd given up on it for this model year; maybe it will come out in the 2003.

He also said something about wanting to make sure that if it says Toyota on it, it's the best there is. I suspect that means they had some sort of serious problem with the design

.

bdtx · March 2002

I just took my 2000 Camry CE in for a repair at just 40K miles. The car was lunging and dying and seemed to have a fuel starvation problem. The service rep called me and told me I had overfilled my fuel tank and broken the fuel check valve! The repair cost $721! Thankfully, we have an extended warranty that paid for it, but has anyone ever heard of this? I never overfill the tank (too lazy), but I have talked to lots of friends who have, and nobody has ever heard of this. Just how afraid should I be of ever filling my tank again?

4apexs · March 2002

new XLE 4cyl - thanks to all of you for your posts re a variety of issues - a great help! Great salesperson, $1500 off list, fair trade in on 160k Taurus, even the Business Mgr let us beat them up for warranty... This is one QUIET car. For me - at 40k a year highway miles, just the right combo of ride comfort and control. One question - for several reasons I want to go to Mobil 1 - anyone done this and at what point - after 2-3 standard oil changes?

mimi919 · March 2002

Well after reading some of the previous posts in here I think for sure I will take the extended warranty when my ordered Camry comes in.
I have to say that I am a little surprised to read of all the problems the Camry has had with previous year models...not at all what I expected..
Hopefully the new 4 cylinder engine in the 2002 Camry will prove itself in future years to come.

hawks1 · March 2002

Sounds like you got a great deal on your new XLE. What option packages did you get on it?

plumman · March 2002

I have a 02 LE/4cylinder and just changed over to synthetics at 2750. Changed the original out at 1300. Engine really quiets down after the change. You will love this car!! Congrats!!

tccmn1 · March 2002

Not sure what the technical wording was. All I can state is that this "letter" is going out to 3.5MILLION Toy Owners of a variety of models since 1997 thru the 2001 mfg. year. If you see the 3 symptoms as I stated in my previous email(s), set up an appt. at your local Toy dealer and make sure that they understand you are trying to have this observed by the Toy Rep. Only then will Toy COVER THE EXPENSES of repair. Again, you have 1 year for this whole deal to work itself out. After that, you battle them on your own.
My deal was covered under Toy ExtraCare...which I swear by getting on my Toy products for years....since I keep em till they are almost a decade old. I had an 88 Camry V6 that needed the AC replaced as well as the electronic button setup for heat, etc. they had in those years. That was BIG bucks that far more exceeded the $500 I paid on the warr. at that time. So, I go for the coverage every time...that's my story.
I'm not sure what the SPA deal is that you had on your vehicle.
I looked at my engine and the head looks brand new on it...not the one that was on it. Very clean, etc.. Again, this work cost Toy warr. in excess of $1K...not quite up to your $3.3K...wow, that must have been a total new engine...?!

4apexs · March 2002

No Option packages - I just needed the base XLE - Only extra was mats/cargo net. I would not have even considered this model, expect saw a number listed on CarMax site at their Baltimore location for around $21,358. I'm in Chicago, and the closest CarMax with new Toyota's is in WI, but they don't bring this model with no options. I checked 4 dealers in this area, found two that did, took a printout of various CarMax cars at this price, and both dealers matched about $1500 off list, $700 over invoice.
Plumman - Wow - the motor gets quieter still with synthetic? This my first 4 cyl since Accord in 1986 - BIG improvement! What brand of oil, driving pattern and change intervals do you have?

plumman · March 2002

The motor gets a LITTLE noisier as it breaks in up to about 1k-1.3k. Conventional change helped quiet the engine until 2.5. This is an all aluminum engine and they put Mobil one in the Porsche from the factory, I figured this Toyota engine could benefit from it also. I'm using Amsoil 5w-30 in this one. You can't go wrong with Mobil 1 either. Just sold a 1995 with 123k on it with a 12 to 15k oil change interval. Wasn't effected by the sludge issue!! Think I'll change this one out at 10k. I drive mostly freeway miles anyway.

8u6hfd · March 2002

Never heard of that one.

I was personally thinking of a $30 fuel filter instead.

william00 · March 2002

After alot of work and using you guys (and gals) as my research eyes and ears, I special ordered a 2002 SEV6 yesterday. (My first ever new car, at age 60.)

Went thru Cars.Direct. Lunar mist, charcoal cloth (that's why the special order), packages 3 & 7, security, mats and wheel locks. $24,625 (supposedly $200 below invoice) "Out the door" totaled $26,916.28 (8.5% in Calif.) Although I won't possess the car until June. Probably use Mobil One and extended warranty to fight "sludge."

Well, hope it holds up as well as my wife's 96 LEV6. Thanks again to all of you and here's luck to us all.

andrelaplume · March 2002

Why are so many people looking to change the seat covers on the Camry? Be it for leather or cloth?

bdtx · March 2002

I also thought it would be the fuel filter. The thing that got me mad was the way the service rep insisted that by overfilling your tank, you can cause $700 plus damage to the car. I'm thinking, the dealer went over the "turn the gas cap three times" thing with me endlessly, and it was listed in the owner's manual..and all that happens if I forget that is that a light comes on the dash that can only be fixed by the dealer. This "overfilling" potentially can ruin your engine, and no one tells you? I think it's a bunch of bs, but I'm still nervous about filling the car again. My brother-in-law, who owns a Sienna, said that basically if that were true, no one would own a Toyota. This service rep told me it IS in the owner's manual. Haven't looked. Like I said, I'm lazy. Which means, when the gas "clicks', I'm finished. Oh well. This Toyota was my first new car, bought SOLELY because of touted reliability. I had a used 1984 Honda Accord that had 300K miles on it when I sold it, and I still see it being driven around my town. My husband has an 87 VOLKSWAGON, for crying out loud, with 280K miles on it, and yet, between the scheduled maintenance (outrageously priced, but I'm afraid not to get it!) and the warranty work, we have spent more on the 2000 Camry this year. I'm not a happy Toyota customer, and I won't buy one again.

andrelaplume · March 2002

A saleman told me there is a Toyota extended warraty that refunds the contract price if you choose never to use the contract or never need to use it. He claims he has the contract and is paying his warranted work out of his pockets but saving his receipts. He says that at any time you can turn in your receipts for reimbursement OR get a refund on the contract if unused. If the contract expires and you never use it your money is refunded as well.

At first I thought this was hard to believe but then I figured that with a 3/36 bumper to bumper, a 5/60 on the engine and tranny and a once (pre-sludge) impecible repair record; pehaps Toyota was not selling many contracts and figured they'd live off the interest paid for the contracts rather than get nothing at all.

What the story out there?

Kirstie_H · March 2002

Just a reminder that the Town Hall chat is on for Wednesday evening (5-7pm Pacific/8-10 pm Eastern). Hope you can join in this week to meet and greet with your fellow Town Hall users and have a little fun with The Return of Car Trivia!

Hope to see you there!

http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/newsviews.html

kirstie_h

Roving Host

Edmunds.com

wanna2002 · March 2002

Any thoughts on why at approximately 7000 miles my 2002 V6 started vibrating when I gradually apply the brakes at higher speeds? The steering wheel shakes and the car just feels loose and unsteady. I am not referring to "slamming" on the brakes or anything, just gradually slowing down from say 55+ mph for stopped traffic ahead...
Thanks.

wain · March 2002

where exactly was the 700 dollar check valve?

canadiancl · March 2002

You've got warped rotors. Did you drive through a puddle when the brakes were hot? In any case, you'd have to get them to machine the rotors.

george00 · March 2002

Why do people want to change the seat covers on their Camrys? Because Toyota knows how to make a great car but puts a lousy seat into it. I have a 2002 LE4. The seat was OK for the first 500 miles or so, then my shoulders started to hurt - it felt like a metal bar was embedded in the foam. Lo and behold, when I had an upholsterer lift up the cloth (not easy - you have to remove several layers of hog rings), there was a metal bar embedded in the foam! I had it removed, and also removed the metal bars down each side of the foam. The seat is much more comfortable now, though still not ideal - I think the cloth fabric is too skimpy and therefore too taut. I may have the upholsterer take the whole thing apart again and patch in an inch or two of fabric so that the seat cover will lie flat against the foam instead of tenting. Or, in the alternative, I may consider changing to leather. Or, if that doesn't work, I may consider aftermarket seats, like Recarro, though that is obviously a last resort. I should add that, except for the seat, the car is wonderful - smooth, silent, responsive, no dragster but fast enough to merge easily onto a highway with a 65 mph speed limit which becomes 75 mph in a couple of miles. It makes 27 mpg on mixed local/highway driving (87 octane). I tried just about every car under $20,000 and nothing came close to the Camry, so I certainly hope I won't have to trade it in before it's broken in - and I can't imagine for what - but a pain in the back is even worse than a pain in the wallet.

bdtx · March 2002

Ok, that's what it says on the invoice. They replaced the broken overfill valve (that's a cheap part) and the charcoal canister (expensive) and the vsv (cheap). The labor for it all was almost $300. The service rep told my husband to tell me that, actually, I didn't break it...it was faulty. I KNEW that, but I can't believe I was originally told that it absolutely is possible to break them. I'm thankful for the extended warranty, and I think we should all be careful when filling our tanks!

canadiancl · March 2002

I didn't think overfilling would cause this much problem. I mean, most gas jockeys try to fill your tank until the gas is dripping out.

8u6hfd · March 2002

Warped Rotors: My last Camry was prone to warped rotors on my old 88 V6. but with 7000 miles, they may cover them under warranty, because 7000 miles to premature for rotor replacement.

Fuel Overfill Valve: If they admitted it was faulty, this should have been covered in the emissions warranty anyway.

wain · March 2002

warped rotors - teenagers in family?? Or someone drives like a teenager - that will cause it? Or shops with big impact wrenches

bad seats? _ amazing to me that Toyota does not fix it they messed them up in 97 and later per Consumer reports
20k car with poor seats!!!

george00 · March 2002

"20k car with poor seats!!!"
I agree that that's ridiculous. But what's even more ridiculous, is that most cars seem to have uncomfortable seats. After all, while auto technology may be relatively new in the light of history, mankind has been making seats for millennia. Yet just look into cars parked around you in a lot or on a street, and you will see the most extraordinary collection of cushions and covers, sometimes several per seat, on even the most expensive models. At the upholsterers, where I was getting my Camry seat worked on, I saw a late model Mercedes, a Lexus, and a Miata having their seats improved. Indeed, I have naturally wondered how much more I would have to have spent to get a comfortable seat. So I recently tried a C-series Merdedes sedan selling for $33,000 - the seat was hard as a rock and so uncomfortable that I canceled the road test. What's especially perplexing is that I owned a diesel Mercedes in New York in the 1970s, and a gas Mercedes in Germany in the 1980s, and they were both perfectly comfortable - as, for that matter, was my 1990 Corolla. What's going on?

wain · March 2002

has a lot to do with it
some of them are really short - no support

also on some power seats (some hondas) the power seat where your butt goes is fixed to the back rest so there is never any change in the location of those two relative to each other- subtle but much worse than having the bottom seat move independently, which is better.

i agreen on hard Mercedes seats - the small Mercedes have road and tire noise too, not quiet.

jdeib · March 2002

I wanted to post my opinion on the seat comfort of the 2002 camry. I have the SE with Cloth and the Power driver's side option. They are very comfortable, as good as my 92 Camry LE's were. The 92 through 96 had great seats, you could drive all day trips(with pit stops)without any discomfort. This new one is just as comfortable, although I haven't put more than 2 straight hours at one stretch yet.

I do know that the previous generation (97-2001) weren't as comfortable. My brother's 2000 LE has flat seats, you sit on them not in them. My dad also had a few Pontiac's that would numb you in about 30 minutes, so I do know uncomfortable seats. I can say as to the SE, the seats are great. I never drove an LE, I would hope they were as good.

bj02176 · March 2002

Well I don't see anything wrong with the seats, just as good as a CRV, Tribute, Accord, Passat, 626, and yes a Jeep Liberty, had them all. I agree on th brakes, can't beat Honda, yet you quickly adjust to the brake feel, doesn't bother me anymore, they stop that's for sure, abs is great. I felt more secure coming home from work in the snow then in my traded jeep liberty. A pretty good car, certainly better then the 2002 accord, perhaps not better then the 2003 accord, 2002 Altima, or 2003 Mazda 6, time will tell

canadiancl · March 2002

Not according to Car & Driver!

clhawkins01 · March 2002

seem to be just fine. I am 6'-4"/240lbs and have no complaints about the seats. Longest drive so far was a 3.5 hour trip up to Tahoe. I'll keep you posted on the 5 hour trip to Yosemite in a few weeks. Actually, the ONE issue I do have is that the leather 'honks' like a duck when it rubs against the seat's side housing (plastic) when I get in and out of the car. I fixed that by placing some felt along the edge of the plastic housing that hits the seat ... all better.

jvkalra · March 2002

In the SF Bay Area, I've seen more than one dealer ad today for ALL Camry models at $3000 off MSRP! There is no catch.

It seems that either the sludge scare or an oversupply is causing Toyota to wage a price war.

cliffy1 · March 2002

If rotors warp at 7000, you should be able to get them covered under warranty. A friendly conversation with your service manager is in order.

alpha01 · March 2002

The Camry lost THAT comparo by one point. I personally didnt understand why they didnt choose a comparable LE V6 which would have been much closer to the Accord LX V6, especially since they lauded the Accord for being without frills, even mentioning the basic-ness of its wheel covers instead of alloys. However, the most underrepresented car in that comparo was easily the Intrepid. I feel that in ES guise with ABS the Dodge would have bettered the Hyundai. Not one of C&D's better comparos, but an interesting read nonetheless. (I also think that they shouldnt have limited it to V6 models and instead based it on price- permitting the Passat 1.8T to enter the mix.)The Accord is indeed an excellent car, but I think perhaps that similarly equipped models might fare differently. Hopefully, we will see a 4clyinder comparo in the future. (Also note that the Passat and Camry 4 and V6 best the Accord 4 and V6 in Consumer Reports).
~alpha01
~alpha

cloud406 · March 2002

Hi everyone, I have a 2000 camry w/ factory keyless entry. How do I convert the current system to equip w/ an factory alarm. Can I do it myself or it is difficult so a dealer installation is preferred. Thanks

john339 · March 2002

Toyota has refused to honor the warranty for thousands of sludged engines because they say the "only" way an engine can sludge is by owner "negligence", even though mahy independent experts dispute this claim. Even Pat Goss from Motor Week says Toyota is wrong on this issue.

Anyway, I hope Toyota doesn't take the same hardline approach and deny warranty coverage on your warped rotors. They could claim that you have "neglected" your rotors and not honor the warranty. They could claim it is a "wear" item and your "neglect" has worn them out already.

canadiancl · March 2002

especially if it's just an isolated case. But to be fair, driver abuse could easily cause such a problem. (I'm not saying wanna abused his/her Camry)

cliffy1 · March 2002

... but I've had rotors covered on two different trucks. My understanding is, they will cover them once during the 3/36K warranty. After that, they assume you are abusing them.

alpha01 · March 2002

INITIALLY Toyota wasnt covering the sludge. But Toyota is sending mailings to all owners of affected vehicles and covering the costs for those who can show proper maintenance.
~alpha

iontrap · March 2002

I recently installed a factory keyless/alarm system in my 2000 Camry. Basically all I had to do was remove a couple of interior trim pieces and plug a wiring harness into a couple of junction boxes. It really wasn't very difficult.

Go to http://www.toyotaguys.com/rs3200plus1.html this is what you are looking for.

3pointstar · March 2002

The warped rotors are either a sign of

1. Toyota cutting costs by not using a thicker rotor
2. Living in a climate where there is a lot of precipitation, thus subjecting your rotors to a severe heating cooling cycle every time you hit the brake pedal.

OK, so I took a look at the Owner's Manual Supplement for my 1996. It says to use the 7500 mile oil change interval if you primarily operate your non-turbo charged Toyota under light, non-commercial duty for distances greater than 5 miles in temperate climates (above freezing and below 90F).

It is obvious that Toyota would not need to claim any responsibility for sludge in their engines. They have worded the owner's manual supplement in such a way that it gives the company a lot of leeway. A lawyer would ask what constitutes light or non-commercial duty? This is not clearly defined. Also, there are just too many variables in how people drive and how well they maintain their cars to determine exactly who is at fault on this engine sludge issue. In spite of this, I have to hand it to Toyota for taking care of their customers affected by this issue.

canadiancl · March 2002

I think Toyota is finally "taking care" for its customers because the media exposure on this issue has backed them into a PR corner. For the longest time, they blamed it on lack of maintenance by owners.

4apexs · March 2002

Got 300 mi so far on 4cyl XLE - I need to do a road trip next week - any comments on when you can drive at 70mph, 3000rpm. Manual says 2000 - 4000 rpm / max 55mph for first 1000 mi - obviously you can say under 4000 rpm and go over 55. Seats are comfortable - yes thigh support is less than some, but my lower back is much happier than Taurus. 27 mpg first fill up - life is good!

jrct9454 · March 2002

...but pay attention to RPM [don't exceed 4000] and make sure you vary speed - that's important to seat the rings properly. Try to avoid full throttle and abrupt jumps in rpm.

fredvh · March 2002

Good advice jrct9454! RPM are always more important than what the speedo says. One more thing: Easy on the brakes too for the first 1000. No hard braking but gentle braking. I think it is just common sense. I still would keep it under 55 mph also. The rpm restriction was probably put in there for the manual transmissions.

Toyota Camry 2006 and earlier

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