Got a Quick, Technical Question?

hookturn · September 2007

2005 toyota camry se. 4cyl. auto trans, 58,ooo miles.
Went to start the car, battery was dead. Had it jumped and let it charge up. Called my mechanic and he said bring it in and he'd check it for free. He called and said the alternator was only putting out 13.35 volts and I needed a new one. I don't know if he did any tests on any other parts of the system, and I don't know what that alternator is supposed to put out. I do know that alternators put out anywhere from 13.5 - 15.3 depending on what type of car/truck. This doesn't explain why the battery would be dead when nothing was left on. He wants me to buy a new alternator for $460.00. What do you think I should do?

meggie18 · September 2007

I don't know much about cars, or what that particular alternator model is intended to put out, but I do know that the alternator, when functioning correctly, charges your battery as long as the car is running, so if it is malfunctioning, the battery will go dead just from driving the car. Again, I don't know a lot about cars, but that is what I can tell you.

kiawah · September 2007

Did your mechanic use an alternator and battery tester to come to his conclusion? Any of the autoparts chains (PepBoys, AutoZone, etc) will do both a free alternator and battery check under load.

I'd get a 2nd opinion before laying out 460 for a new alternator....and check the alternator price at pepboys while you are at it.

0patience · September 2007

If your alternator is putting out 13.35 volts, that doesn't tell a mechanic much.
If it is putting out 13.35 volts and you load it and it stays at 13.3 volts, then the alternator is fine.

Alternators are designed to maintain the charge of the battery.
Your alternator is a 100 Amp alternator. Standard output for it is 13.2 to 14.8 V
So your alternator's out put is well with in that range.

My first impression would be to go get your car, pay him what ever diagnostic fee he is charging you and find someone more qualified.

This doesn't explain why the battery would be dead when nothing was left on.
How long did it take for the battery to go dead?
What aftermarket junk do you have? Alarm, remote starter, navigation system, DVD player and that sort.

Has the battery been load tested?
If not, that should have been the first test.
If a battery had a dead short, dead cell or is junk, no alternator will keep it charged.

Just my opinion.

hookturn · September 2007

Thanks, There is no aftermarket anything. It's my wifes car.As far as I know she parked it in the garage, and a couple days later the battery was dead. I'm talking to the mechanic today.

kiawah · September 2007

I'm sure you probably know to check to make sure interior lights weren't left on. Had that problem a great number of years ago when the kids were small, 'somebody' turned on the interior lights and left them on. Based on where the car was parked and the ambient lighting it wasn't detected until the day I ended up trying to start the car and it was dead.

user777 · September 2007

right, also, if your wife is taking small trips of just a few miles, this isn't sufficient distance for an alternator to recharge the battery.

batteries should last about 4 years, but in particularly hot climates or in hot/cold climates, they may not.

i suggest you take it to an Autozone or other as was suggested. Generally they will load-test both the battery and also the alternator. if the battery is bad, i think they have to replace that before getting a good reading from the alternator test.

FWIW: $460 for an alternator seems pretty pricy to me. Calling an independant that services that car could help calibrate the expected cost to repair if the alternator is bad.

0patience · September 2007

Actually, if his alternator is bad, that is about the right ballpark figure for that alternator.
But, there are remans available for less.
I would caution a person that remans can often become a scheduled replacement.
What I mean is, like some lifetime warranties, you spend a lifetime replacing them.

In the case of alternators, if they are tough to get to, then quality should be your first thought.

user777 · September 2007

ok, i agree, you would want to go with OEM on something like that, rather than shave a few dollars. and if it's tough to get to, well you are right.

i've had to replace an alternator in a toyota corolla at about the 7yr mark, and my wife had a cheap remanufactured unit put in that worked for about 1.5 yrs and we had to replace it again with an OEM.

so i agree, quality is important. that can be a false economy to go with something cheap. it just seems crazy that an alternator replacement in any relatively inexpensive economy vehicle would cost nearly half a grand.

0patience · September 2007

A lot of the newer vehicle's alternators are fairly high dollar anymore, because of the higher amperage that most vehicles are going to.
It used to be that the average rating for an alternator was 60 Amps and a high output was 90-100 Amps.

Todays alternators are regularly 100 amps, because of all the electronics.

I had a customer that once replaced his alternator 8 times in 2 years. He had purchase a lifetime warranty alternator from a national chain store. After the 8th time, he was convinced to purchase a quality remanufactured alternator from a shop that specializes in autmotive electrical rebuilding. That was 5 years ago. The cost of the quality reman was $40 more than the cheap unit.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2007

There are some things I just won't buy from a chain auto supply store...one is alternators, and another is gaskets.

wilbur1954 · September 2007

i have a 1964 dyna-vision electronic engine analyzer.it is a marquette 8 model.it is in good working order and has all equipment including manual.trying to find out what it is worth and who might be interested in buying

user777 · September 2007

Shifty, here's one for you or 0patience.

If you bring your vehicle in for service to an independant, what's the likelyhood they are going to use OEM parts on an alternator or a gasket? :surprise:

kiawah · September 2007

I've had good luck with replacement alternators. Over the years I've had 2 GM alternators go out, and 1 Chrylser. In all cases, the replacement from autoparts lasted longer than the OEM original, and none of the replacements ever went bad before the car was ultimately sold years later.

I just went out and checked my old Suburban, and that replacement alternator is a Delco. That was replaced in the middle of a 9 hour trip, was able to pull off and find an auto chain before the battery totally died. Swapped it out right in their parking lot. (Thank goodness for GPS and Microsoft Streets&Trips).

0patience · September 2007

If you bring your vehicle in for service to an independant, what's the likelyhood they are going to use OEM parts on an alternator or a gasket?

In my area, that likelihood would be pretty high.
You see, the smart independants realize that on a lot of parts, especially electrical (sensors, switches, starters and alternators), the OEM parts are almost always the best bet. These guys don't want to take a chance on an aftermarket part making the customer come back.

And as far as gaskets, there are some OEM gaskets that have been updated to correct known problems, so if you use an aftermarket gasket, you may run into the same problem.

But......... some aftermarket gasket companies like Victor and Fel-Pro do make updated gaskets that are superior to OEM, so you have to know when to go with OEM and when not to.

user777 · September 2007

i used an independant once that gave me the choice of aftermarket or OEM. i was impressed with that!

Mr_Shiftright · September 2007

I think it would depend on the type of car and brand of gasket, as to what an indie shop would offer you. Their years of experience would have told them what to use. Since I don't have that experience, I would buy any critical gasket from the dealer. If nothing else, the gasket is "fresh" because that's all they sell and the gaskets don't stay on the shelf for 6 months. I buy all my oil filters at the dealer as well.

But the indie shops that worked on my Porsche would sometimes use a high quality gasket that wasn't OEM. But they knew the brand quite well.

0patience · September 2007

I use Victor or Fel-pro for most domestic engines.
On my older small blocks, I use gaskets from a company called Corteco.
Their intake gaskets for older small block Chevy engines are second to none.
I've started using their head gaskets for small blocks on the last 10 small blocks I've built and not one has had any problems.

benjaminh · September 2007

I'm wondering about how and why different engines have different redlines. Specifically, I think the early Honda Accord 4-cylinder engines had a redline in the low 5000s. By the late 90s, the redline was in the low 6000s. If you get an 08 EX Accord 4-cylinder, the redline is 7100! And peak horsepower of 190 only comes just shy of that at 7000 flat. I'm not sure I've ever been above even 5000 in my 02 Accord, and that felt a little uncomfortable, because I felt like I was doing something that was harsh for my engine and the oil.

Anyway, my question is what makes an engine capable of higher rpm before the redline. In general is an engine with a higher redline a bit better built and engineered?

Thanks.

benjaminh · September 2007

http://www.hondanews.com/categories/812/releases/4103

qbrozen · September 2007

well, my understanding is that it is indicative of a couple of issues. One can be build tolerances and technological advances (such as variable timing), and that may be the reason when you are looking at similar 4-cylinders, for instance. But I think more importantly is basic things like the distance a piston has to travel (stroke). For instance, if you have two 4-cylinder engines, but one has double the stroke of the other, those pistons will have to travel twice as fast to make a revolution in the same amount of time as the engine with the shorter stroke.

burdawg · September 2007

Stronger internal parts usually. Such as forged cranks as opposed to cast, hardened rods, forged pistons. Also better build quality, tighter tolerances, more attention to detail during assembly, and much better ignition and fuel control.
Your right though. Today high HP and torque numbers are touted as a big selling point. They don't tell you though that with todays smaller DOHC engines you have to wind it up real tight to get that power. The HP and torque curve graphs tell the story if you can find them.

stickguy · September 2007

I am another one that never normally goes close to redline. having usable power and torque in the midrange (say 2,500 - 4,000) is much more valuable to me than peak HP at 7K! Very rare that I exceed 5K (4K actually), but i do it once in a while just for the heck of it!

I remember at one point comparing the Accord and TSX (I was looking at both). Same basic 2.4L engine, but the Acura had a fancier head/valve set up IIRC.

Anyway, the Accord had only 160 HP, but the TSX had a shopping 200! However, when you looked at the output graph, they were pretty much the same up to around 5K IIRC, where the fancy CTEC kicked in.

The Accord I think had a bit more torque down low.

So basically, on paper the TSX looked like it blew the Accord engine away, but for the majority of normal use, the Accord was probably more effective! And geared taller, even though the TSX had 6 speeds.

rcole5 · September 2007

I have a '97 Toyota Avalon and the remote key fob doesn't work properly. The lock works fine, the unlock works intermittently and the trunk open works after holding it for about 10 seconds. I have cleaned the contacts with alcohol and put in fresh batteries. Any ideas as to what is wrong and whether it can be fixed?

bmemory · September 2007

I recently purchased a 2001 Honda Civic LX with a SOHC 4 cyl engine (non-v tec). I drive a delivery truck for a major auto supply chain and can get parts at discount prices. I know a little about mechanics but not much. I, also, know very good mechanics that will do work and let me bring them my own parts.

My question is this: I am about to have a tune up done for the first time. What will this involve for this car? ie...what parts should I purchase to take to the mechanic?

I have already purchased plugs, oil filter, and Mobile One oil. I can't seem to find plug wires. Do I need them? What else?

stickguy · September 2007

how many miles? Also, look in the owners manual, that should tell you.

There probably isn't that much more you can do, other than changing fluids (tranny, brake, etc.). Maybe do a coolant flush and change.

PVC valve isn't a bad idea. Check the belts, they could be in need (preventive maintenance).

burdawg · September 2007

What makes you think it needs a tune up? High miles?

royceb · September 2007

I'm having a door handle problem that seems to be getting worse the more I use it. The problem is that I need to lift up higher and use more force. I heard that it could be a cable that works it or is it plastic latch mechanisms? or metal? I also need to figure how to get access to it. How do you get the inside of the door off? I would really like to do this myself.

kiawah · September 2007

I don't know specifically for a contour, but most door panels are held on by a bunch of hidden expansion plugs around the edges, and a couple screws in the middle.

Lower the window into the door. Look in the middle section of the door panel for any screws, a lot of times kind of hidden in trim areas (like underneath a handle that gets pulled up, or in an ashtray area, etc). Take off any handles on the inside. Once you get any those out, then start at one of the lower corners and get something like a putty knife that you can slide between the door panel and the underlying metal frame. Pry gently, and if you look in the edge while you are prying you may see a little plastic expansion plug. Move your tool over real close to that, so when you pry you are prying near the plug. Pry it out, taking care not to bend/break the cardboard in the door panel, and move all the way around the edge prying it out. When you get the door panel bottom and side edges loose, it will usually lift up out of the window slot, and out.

When putting back together, make sure the expansion plug is centered in the hole, and begin pressing the door panel together. I usually find it easier to only push it part way in, until I go around the edge to get all of the plugs lined up in their holes. Then you can press the door panel all of the way in to the door frame.

suvshopper4 · September 2007

I've got a RAV4, 2001, and the driver's side power window is getting judder-y (for want of a better word). It seems to be more of a binding issue than a motor issue, but I don't really know. And I guess it is going to get worse.

I tried waxing the seals along the bottom of the opening (along the window sill), and that has made a little improvement, but I'd like to come up with a fix.

Ideas?

Thanks.

-ss4

kiawah · September 2007

Going to have to open up the door panel, and watch it's operation going up and down (take care not to get your hands caught). You may see something loose, or see where it is binding in the track. If there are no binds, then could be that the motor is going bad.

96850glt · September 2007

I am looking at a '92 Jetta GL/1.8?L/5Spd (good body & interior,180K miles, it runs OK, and no unusual/scary noises)to buy as backup short-distance transportation. There are some minor problems like a bad muffler, driver's window regulator needs replacement (seller has parts), some speakers need reinstallation, and the big one-the heater core needs replacement. Here in Maine, we NEED heat. Previous owner disconnected the core from the cooling system. Damn, I forgot to ask if the thing leaked or not before he diconnected it. Anyway, it did not produce any heat. I felt the hoses, and I'm pretty sure that the thermostat is good, but I have not had a chance to check the heater controls yet. I think he said that his daughter took it to the dealer, and they said that it was the core. So, he bought a new core and a Haynes manual, and stopped there. My question is, just how hard is it going to be to change the heater core? I can get this car for $500, or less. Anyone ever done this job before? Thanks.

0patience · September 2007

With or without A/C will make a major difference.
With A/C take 5.6 hours book time, so figure at least 8 hours.
Without A/C is 4.1 hours book time, so figure about 6-7 hours.

If it has A/C, the A/C system will have to be disconnected, so if you don't have a recovery system, it is best to have a shop do it.

So to give a better idea of what is involved, we need to know if it has A/C or not.

96850glt · September 2007

This Jetta does have A/C, so I'll go with the longer time, and recommendation. Thanks for the quick response. This is the third time I've used this site. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

kiawah · September 2007

I think you can feel fairly sure that the heater core is leaking, otherwise there would be absolutely no reason to disconnect it.

That job will have to be done, as you say you need the heat. But also in the winter, you need the heater to take the humidity out of the air (from your breathing), else it fogs up and freezes on the inside of your windows. I wouldn't buy the car, without a definite plan to fix it....actually I would pass on the car, and go find something else.

I've only done a heater core change once, on an old Corvette (where everything is soo jammed in to begin with). I'd rather have all my teeth pulled out, before I did it again.

user777 · September 2007

i had an '85 Jetta GLI that had to have the core replaced about 3 or 4 years into ownership because it leaked. i distinctly remember it fogging the interior of the car and windows with what i believe to be a coolant / water mix.

must not have been good for my lungs. :surprise:

i believe there was a recall for a range of years because it was a common defect. might be worth having the new owner do some research.

anyway, does a heater core replacement involve removing the dash?

Mr_Shiftright · September 2007

I'd hook it up first and see where it's leaking. Sometimes it is just a crack in the inlet pipe of the core---that is a typical German plastics trick---and one time I patched that crack up with the core still in the car (thank you JB weld). I'm not normally a "patcher" kind of guy but that patch lasted over two years. Also could be a leaking heater valve.

So maybe you can partially strip off the trim around the core and then hook it up and observe what's what. Wouldn't you feel bad if you took out the heater core only to find a cracked hose or hairline crack in the inlet tube or a leaky heater valve?

Can't you just buy a beater '92 VW for $1,500 and save all this trouble? This car almost doesn't sound worth it.

hean · September 2007

My wife's 2003 Monte Carlo has lost it's brake and tail lights. I checked all the fuses I could find (on the side of the dash and under the hood. Is there a fusible link or something in the harness. I don't know where else to look there's no power to the lights I took off the connector and used a test light, the turn indicators work (different lamp).

ugnar · September 2007

I went outside this morning to get in my 2004 Corolla LE, and my remote unlock key is not working. Since my alarm is rigged to go off when I use my actual key on it (for some asinine reason), I tried to solve the problem in other ways, such as replacing the battery in the remote, to no avail. Ultimately, I decided to just try out the actual key on the door and hope I could turn off the alarm once I'm inside; then I find out that the KEY WON'T OPEN THE DOOR AT ALL. The keyhole is locked, and won't let me turn the key or anything.

No dealerships or service stations around here are open on Sundays, and of course, I wouldn't be able to get to anything outside of a couple mile's walk in the first place. Any ideas on how I can get in my car?

0patience · September 2007

You will have to have a shop do the work, as the A/C has to come apart. If you take the A/C apart, the the refrigerant will come out, you won't have A/C and you will be harming the environment, yada yada yada.

A shop can recover the refrigerant and do the work.

This job will have you cussing up a storm, throwing tools and generally not make you a happy person.

If you try and do the job, figure it will take you at least 8 hours and b>if everything goes right.

kiawah · September 2007

If it lost it's brake lights, and the fuse is okay, then you may have a bad brake light switch (down on the brake pedal).

You say however that you lost your 'tail' lights. Do you mean that your parking lights (come on when you turn on your headlights), are out as well?

kiawah · September 2007

If you don't use outdoor locks, then I've found if the car is parked outside all of the time, then the lock cylinder gets stuck(rusted). I usually shoot some lock spray oil in all outdoor locks, and exercise the lock with the key, once a year....just to prevent a lock freeing up.

Try some wd-40 spray in the lock, and put the key in and out a couple of times, to see if you can get the pins in the cylinder lock to free up.

hean · September 2007

Both the brake lights and the tail lights (running lights) are non-functional. If I turn the parking lights or headlights on the front lights work fine the back lights don't work at all (other than turn signals). Lamps are ok. Brake switch doesn't explain it.

96850glt · September 2007

Thanks to all who replied. I think I will take your combined advice and back away from this car. I've changed one heater core before, on an '93 Chevelle, and I hope I never have to do it again.

Once again, sage advice from this site will keep me out of trouble.

kiawah · September 2007

hean,

The brake light circuit and the parking light circuit, as I'm sure you are aware, are two totally different circuits.....and you've lost both of them. You didn't mention that you lost the parking light circuit in the front of the car, so I'm assuming that the front 1/2 of the parking light circuit is working, and the back half isn't.

I don't have your schematics to look at, so the only thing I can think of is some cable that runs to the back got cut, or pinched, or ?? Are the lights in the trunk mounted in the trunk lid by any chance, where the wiring flexes back and forth when you open the trunk?

You might have a relay in the circuit, with two sets of points (one parking light circuit goes to the front, one to the back)....but without a set of electrical schematics for your year and model that is only speculation.

The other thing that comes to mind is you might have lost a ground to the back (the +13 volts is there, but lost the - ground path back). You could check this with your voltmeter measuring from the back parking light +, to the - on the battery.

If you try those two things and still no dice, you will probably have to get a set of electrical schematics for your year and model to trouble shoot this. Can't imagine what else would be in the circuit, since both the brake light circuit and parking light circuits normally always have power to the switches.

You could potentially try alldatadiy and/or helminc to see if they have schematics and service manuals for your vehicle.

imidazol97 · September 2007

The Helm books will be $135 (I think shipping is included) for the Monte/Impala books. Or you can buy the 2007 DVD which covers all GM cars, I think for $400.

If you have friends into repairing their Impalas someone might have the Monte Carlo/Impala manual already. I have an H-body LeSabre version but I'm sure wiring will be different, e.g.

I've bought factory service manuals for almost every car I bought since 67 Mustang. I felt they paid for themselves.

Also some are on Ebay, if you want the hassle of buying and sometimes waiting. The Helm company's GM service manuals look like this
link title

kiawah · September 2007

Yep, I order manuals or DVD's for each car I own as well. Just ordered a set of Helms' this weekend for a new vehicle I bought last week, as any online manuals aren't available for it yet.

I have also used alldatadiy, they have online access for 25 bucks a car, a year.

imidazol97 · September 2007

I did buy a GM dvd manual but can't get it work on my computer. The installation paper, homespun by the selleer, doesn't install it. I may be my network that's causing the trouble. My point is if you buy the DVD that doesn't say GM on it, be aware just as with any software purchase.

kiawah · September 2007

I ordered the service manual set (hardcopy version) directly from HelmInc. I should by fine.

Mr_Shiftright · September 2007

There's a lot of garbage for sale on eBay on CD and DVD, so be careful. I personally prefer hard copy. Much easier to work with.

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