Subaru Legacy/Outback

ateixeira

Steve: it is painted on. Wash and wax it along with the rest of the car.

-juice

nygreg

I would call SOA, or drop Patti an e-mail. I believe the ECU patch is just downloaded to your ECU. So far it appears to work on several cars. Don't believe it has been released yet, but it sounds like you are a good candidate for the test. Good luck.

Greg

nygreg

Juice - I agree. That is one nice looking wagon. Hopefully, it doesn't get a Ford powertrain.

Greg

ateixeira

The 2.3l 4 banger is a Mazda engine (160hp, 152 lb-ft). The 3.0l V6 is the Ford Duratec, but Mazda re-engineered it with variable valve timing and it makes 219hp/202ft-lbs.

Not sure about the tranny but I would not touch a Ford CD4E or any dervative of it.

-juice

revka

For more discussion on the Mazda 6 station wagon, please join us in our new Station Wagon's discussion: Mazda 6 Station Wagon. Thanks for your participation. ;-)

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rsholland

Not so sure I agree with the name change. I think most people, when they here the name Mazda 6, will think it has a 6-cylinder engine; not necessarily so...

It is a looker though. I do have to say, however, I'm getting a bit tired of all these new cars using "jeweled" tailights; first Lexus, then the Altima, and now the Mazda.

Bob

ateixeira

Maybe if they call the 4 banger models the Mazda 4. ;-)

They're using names like MP3, Protoge5, so I can see why they'd change it. The 626 name had little value (as did 323 and 929 when those were dropped).

I like the tail lights. They're trying to attract 18-25 year olds with those, even younger than me.

Also, note that the Toyota Matrix had them on the concept, but it looks like at least the base models on the production cars will not have them. Now that I'm used to the look, the Matrix with the red/yellow taillight set looks boring.

-juice

rsholland

I'm just getting tired of everybody doing the "me too" thing with these tailights. It seems to be the "flavor of the week," if you know what I mean.

Regardless of Mazda's logic for the name change, I think it will cause confusion for some customers. The last thing you want to do (in marketing) is confuse the target audience.

Bob

vincer2

Sharon,

Glad your still reading the posts. Since you hadn't posted in a while I wasn't sure if you'd be aware of the good news. Results with the reprogrammed ecu so far have been great. My engine no longer sounds like a poor man's cement mixer.

Perhaps Patti could help out and post timing of availability and the process to follow for receiving the revised program.

Specific to gas mileage my 2000 OB consistently gets between 21 & 24 around town and 27 & 29 on trips. If the trip is unusual where there is no stopping and I hold a steady cruise controlled speed of 70 I'll achieve 30 mpg. My local driving however is not heavy city driving in a large urban area such as Phila or NYC.
Vince

ateixeira

Not flavor of the week, but flavor of the decade. It started with the IS more than a year ago and these cars will be out there for at least another 4-5 years. Get used to it.

I don't think Protege5 owners think they have an in-line 5 cylinder. Also, a RAV4 with 2WD should then be called a RAV2, no?

I agree it can be a bit confusing, though. And Six was Blossom's buddy on that TV show. ;-)

-juice

theob

looks a lot like my 2001 OB VDC!! If you change the grill and the rear-seat window arrangement, from the small photos in Edmunds, it looks like a lot of cues were taken from the 2000/2001 Legacy wagon design. But what do I know!
Theo in Colorado

nematode

I'm not sure if we have a "ping" car or not. The noise I hear sound more like preignition (rattle under load instead of a ping or knock noise). Its just as annoying and, at times, kinda loud. It stops totaly after the car is fully warmed up. Things that did not help at all:
1) 4 tanks of 94 octane
2) fuel injector cleaner (twice over 10k miles)
3) tune-up

On the MP3/5 topic: I have not driven the MP5. On the other hand, the MP3 is 2 options (ABS, cruise) and 50hp away from a great car. The chassis is just fantastic and the balance (for a FWD) car is as good as the Prelude. They have managed to dial out much of the under steer....I like that. Dont know about at the limit of cornering as I not get to beat on the car. I also dont think the chassis could take much more than 180-200hp before torque steer would rear its ugly head. Currently, everything about that cars dynamics were simply excellent (other than the lack of power). Ofcourse, there are design elements that I dont like about it but that does not take away from the driving experience for me. If I was looking for a budget sports car....it makes the short list. I would even go as far as saying its more fun than a Miata....but not by much. However, I got the ES instead of the MP3 for 1 main reason:
Cost/finance rates. I'm a sucker for cars I can pay for completely in 2 years and it was selling over MSRP when I was looking. I'm still saving for my S4 Avant.

The WRX is still the king of the mountain and nothing short of $35k can touch it in terms of driving fun for the dollar. BUT I can see the potential in the MP3. Hopefully an MPS version is on the way.

goosegog

I agree with sten2, at least about the 1st gear being too high. In some other markets (Australia for sure) the OB comes with dual range trans.

I tow a 1000 lb pop-up tent trailer and find that manouvering at low speeds requires the clutch to be slipped quite a bit. My driveway is steep and the clutch must be slipped all the way up as there is insufficient engine speed to pull it otherwise. Backing the trailer uphill is another example. On the level it isn't so bad as one can disengage the clutch completely without rolling the wrong way. These manouvers generate a very powerful, unpleasant and lingering "burning clutch" smell that I have never experienced with any of my many manual trans cars over the last 35 years. Not even when my two girls learned to do hill starts during driving lessons.

There is no indication of clutch slippage under other conditions so I believe this is a "feature" of the clutch. But a lower gear would help.

I haven't checked my rpm in 5th but it does not seem excessive to me. And my gas mileage is pretty good.

ateixeira

I think the 6 will be a little smaller. The Outback is more squared off, likely more practical and roomy.

More fun than a Miata? I drove a P5, and that wasn't even close! If you ever come to the DC area, I'll have to take you for a spin.

-juice

rsholland

hear the word "6," they usually associate it with cylinders. "6" is much more ingrained that way in most consumer's minds than "5." When I hear the word "5," I think of doors (as in 5-door), not cylinders.

As to the tail lights; I'm used to it. I just think it's another example of how Japanese automakers keep ripping one another off, as far as styling is concerned. The result being the oft-heard comment that "all Japanese cars look alike." At least Subaru is trying to develop a look that is unique in and of itself. They're not always successful, but at least they're trying.

Bob

ateixeira

Maybe the 6 will have 6 doors. Do they count the gas cover? ;-)

I don't give Lexus credit for the jeweled tail light idea, they were quite popular as aftermarket add-ons for quite a while.

-juice

rsholland

that each of the Japanese (and Korean) car makers would latch onto some sort of "visual cue(s)" that they could call their own, like the Europeans have so successfully done. Nobody will never confuse the looks of a BMW, for a Mercedes, or a Saab, or Volvo. This constant copying one another leads to nothing but a sea of bland mediocre design.

Bob

paisan

Just like my MX6, what's up with that? It didn't even have a 6-cylinder option!

-mike

jfl

My 2000 Legacy L (sedan) 5 spd turns about 2800 rpm in 5th at 65 mph. The tires are OEM 205/60R15.

Turning 3500 rpm at 65 mph almost sounds like a manual in 4th gear. Could the needle or numbers on the tach be misaligned? What is the indicated idle speed?

Road & Track magazine listed 2550 rpm @ 60 mph for the 2000 OB Ltd wagon w/4 spd auto trans.

rsholland

I see your point Mike. However, I believe the new Mazda is going to be referred to as the Mazda 6. There's no "MX" preceding it, therefore one tends to focus on "6," which could be misleading or confusing.

Who knows I could be wrong, but the moment I heard that name (Mazda 6), the first thing that popped into my mind was 6 cylinders. Maybe others will feel differently.

Bob

goosegog

If I wanted to read about Mazdas I wouldn't be reading a Subaru board. Not including our host's ignored hint there have been 14 or 15 Mazda/non-Subaru posts in the last two days.

rsholland

relax...

Nobody here's abandoned Subarus. So occasionally the topic drifts a bit. No harm done. Eventually we get back to Subarus. Always have in the past...

Bob

i_love_mazda

Gooseman says "If I wanted to read about Mazdas I wouldn't be reading a Subaru board. Not including our host's ignored hint there have been 14 or 15 Mazda/non-Subaru posts in the last two days".

My suggestion is you skim over the topics you don't want to read! People can go off topic now and then and you can't stop it. So chill.

shortlid

Group, is there a alternator recall on the Legacy, can someone shed light on it, thanks.

rsholland

do you think there's a recall? Do you know of several owners with alternator problems?

Bob

evilizard

I was told by a Subaru mechanic that there is a recall on certian alternators between 95-98 if I remeber correctly. He said bring it in and they would look at the serial # to see if it is subject

nygreg

IIRC, there was a service of some sort. At around 80K miles, some small number were failing (contacts?) so SOA decided to do the right thing and fix them under warranty. Patti?

Greg

jheil

Folks,

I've decided on an Outback but all dealers in area (Spokane, Washington) add $2,000-3,000 to the MSRP and are unwilling to negotiate from invoice up. Can anyone recommend a dealer who prices at invoice plus $$$ anywhere out west.

Thanks for any help, Joe

revka

you can now check for recalls and technical service bulletins in Edmunds' new Maintenance Guide. For future reference, you'll find links to the Maintenance Guide on Edmunds's main page or in the Ownership section. Hope this is helpful.

Revka
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Hatchbacks / Station Wagons / Women's Auto Center Boards

hypov

Joel - Yes, there's a recall but I think only a limited number of Legacy/Outback are involved. But check with SoA.

-Dave

hammersley

My service receipt is at home, but IIRC, Greg is correct - it was a limited number of vehicles in that date range, for an overheating or internal contact problem. Service dept. checked the VIN, but determined that mine had apparently already failed & been changed out prior to my ownership.
It was/would have been a warranty/no cost repair.
There's probably someplace you can check for TSB's regarding this issue.

Cheers!
Paul

ateixeira

It's not necessary. Subaru uses double-galvanized steel to prevent rust.

Just try to keep the vehicle clean, and wash the undercarriage whenever you wash the rest of the car.

Wax the insides of the wheels so ice won't stick, and you're all set for winter.

-juice

pattim3

Howdy all! FYI - yup - there were some alternator failures at high mileage (brushes going bad). Failures were at high mileage but they were at an unacceptable level. Therefore, we issued a Service Campaign. Not a recall, because it was not a "safety issue" as defined by NHTSA - but the right thing to do.

There are a limited number of affected vehicles. It goes by the production information on the alternator. If you want it checked, call your dealer with the VIN and they can look it up. If it is within the VIN range, they can inspect it (at no charge) to see if it was one of the underperforming units. If it is, it will be replaced at no cost to you. If not, the check up was free anyway??

Thanks!

Patti

shortlid

Thanks, we have a '98 Legacy L Wagon with 60,000 miles, that is going in for the front spring recall and an oil change. Should I have the dealer look into the alternator also?

toca

If I'm not mistaken, it was for late '97 and early '98 models. We bought our '98OB in July of '97 and the alternator was replaced.

pattim3

You may want to nudge the dealer and ask them to look up the VIN while it is there. I'm sure they'd be willing to. After all - why pass up the opportunity to make some $$$'s on us?

Thanks and let us know if you have any problems!

Patti

vince14

I'm now up to 53k on my 2k OB ltd wagon, no warranty left, but everything is fine. Still running on my Wilderness tires. The question is:
Should I get snow itres and mount them on 15" wheels and continue with my Wilderness another year or so, or just get good all-weather tires (I like the Yokohama Aegis LS4, have them on my wife's AWD Caravan, and they are great in all weather. I'm thinking 15" for snows, as the wheelwells on the OB's pack with snow really quickly, not much room for the 16" tires. I don't really know how much good life I have on the Wildys and have never liked their traction in the snow.
Waddya think, folks?
Vince

scirocco22

...$2,000-3,000 over MSRP??? They should be deducting about that amount from the MSRP. If you're willing to make the purchase on the other side of the mountains, most western Washington dealers will be willing to negotiate from invoice price. I purchased an '02 Forester two months ago at right around invoice from one of the highest volume dealers in the state but did check prices at several other western Washington dealers (away from the Seattle area) because of the high sales tax rates here in the metro Seattle area. My hunch is that prices may even be more negotiable now because of the state of the over-all economy. E-mail me if you'd like my findings. Good luck!

--'rocco

kturner1

I haven't had a manual tranny in awhile and am still getting used to it. Recently, I missed second and clashed the gears in my O1 L. Nothing really terrible and everything is working fine. How worried should I be? Is there a tranny filter or magnet in case some chips break off? Also, some people have complained that the Soob trannies shift is "notchy." Since my clash, I am pausing just briefly between gears and giving them a little more time to line up. Very smooth.

critchleys

I'm not familiar with Subaru models except that you see a lot of outback wagons here in the Northeast. I'm ready (I think) to downsize from 20+ years of driving trucks and today I was looking through the Edmund's site at Subaru Outback wagons. One of the listed models is an outback with "weather package" - it's about $1,000 more than the one without it. But the description of standard features for the two models are identical. And nowhere on the Edmund's site could I find a description of the "weather package" - it's not listed under options (?). Maybe someone who decided (or not) to purchase one of these can tell me what's included? Thanks.

paisan

My dad's '97 legacy and my uncles '97 OB both had theirs replaced. Bob, I fully agree with you. if the 6 appears in any short name, it would indicate to me that there was a 6-cylinder engine in there. Such as the XT6, being the H6 version of the XT which has an H4 or H4t.

Goose: Don't worry so much about OT stuff we are all well rounded car buffs here, we need not turn this into a strict forum. We could get really off-topic if you'd like!
-mike

rsholland

The All-Weather-Package is an option on the base Legacy-based Outback, and standard on the Outback Limited and Outback H-6 models, as well as the Forester S. It's listed in the brochures for those models.

We have it on our '01 Forester. It consists of: heated seats, heated outside mirrors, heated windshield wiper deicer, and a limited slip rear differential.

It's a nice package to have. I'm glad we've got it.

Bob

vdchawk

Bob,

No LSD on the VDC model.

Keith

jerrys2

Could someone direct me to one or two good sites that provide invoice and list prices. I had this information when I purchased my 2000 Outback Ltd. over two years ago but can't seem to locate it.

I am not replacing the Outback currently at 36k with absolutely no problems and running great.

Thanks,

Jerry

critchleys

Bob and Keith -

Thanks for the info on the weather package - sounds like it has exactly the features I'm looking for and worth the difference in price. Funny Edmunds didn't get this right.

paisan

Try Edmunds.com and my personal favorite is carpoint.com

-mike

vincer2

Vince,
I purchased a set of Aegis tires for my wife's Camry based on a Consumer Reports article. While I expected them to be somewhat noisier because of their wet surface gripping capability they are really loud. What's your experience been with them?
Vince

rsholland

Keith- You're right. The VDC eliminates the need for an LSD. Thanks for being on your toes.

Jim- Not a problem. I think you'll be happy with a Subie. Most everybody here is.

Bob

nygreg

I just installed 4 Aegis LS4s on my Sienna last week. Definitely better grip on dry pavement than the Firestone Affinitys they replaced. No experience on wet or snow yet. Noise - I don't think they are any quieter than the Firestones, maybe a little noisier. I will try pay more attention and let you know (I have the car today).

Greg

fibber2

The LSD is now standard on the base model OB, and the price of the AWP was reduced to reflect that it only contains the seats heaters / mirror heaters / wiper heaters. I believe it is now around $500.00

Steve